What's going on here?

[Newcastle]

I understand the excitement about Fahrenheit 911. That makes sense. But where's the outrage about Kerry claiming there's nothing wrong with the Patriot Act? About Kerry not offering a foreign policy that differs significantly from Bush's? About Kerry begging and pleading with John McCain to please be his running mate?

Have we all become a bunch of partisan hacks who care nothing for principle, only that "our team" win?

Dudes, they've stolen our party, and we should demand to get it back. This is outrageous.

A few months ago I was despondent over Kerry's winning the nomination for the Democratic party. I had to leave this web site because there were so many partisan hacks who refused to see how terrible this was for our party. I came back, not to cheer that I was right, but to lament that I was right. This is a terrible, terrible, terrible moment for all of us. Kerry has made it clear that we have only two choices: Do you want the Republican party or do you want the Republican Nazi party?

We should be outraged. We should be talking about how the terms "moderate Democrat," and "centrist Democrat" and "bipartisan Democrat" are only terms for right-wingers who have the gall to call themselves Democrats. What about the rest of us? Have we no right to our own party? Oh, yes, now will come the bull about how the left-wing doomed the Democratic party - despite the inconvenient fact that the left-wing has never held power within the Democratic party, but posteriors must be kissed.

People, get outraged. Demand your party back. It is yours. It is not Kerry's. Kerry will become president, but only because George Bush is the most Gawdawful president imaginable or un-imaginable. Make no mistake. Kerry has not done a damned thing to deserve your vote, and he has no intention of doing a damned thing to deserve your vote. You must make him deserve it. He has to earn your vote, because it's the most important thing you can offer him at this point.

Democrats, do not prostitute yourselves. Yes, there will be a president Kerry thanks to the failures of Dubya, but you must insist President Kerry actually be something akin to what you say you believe in, or the whole thing is a ludicrous farce.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

1. Get Kerry in then we start the REAL work

said by a Dem who is third party at heart but ready to get down and dirty and clean house.

[Slickriddles]

21. There's a Big Time Shift going on

As the Christo-facists, and arch conservatives drive the Republicans further and further right it opens American politics for the kind of realignment that occurred with the Reagan Democrats (ya ever hear of them). I like the sound of Kerry Republicans. But make no mistake, Kerry will have to be pushed to the left. But at this time, in this place, if you value the Bill of Rights you vote Democratic.

[JayS]

35. As long as you ignore the...

...Second Amendment. :)


hehehe

(*running away in flame proof suit*)

[Slickriddles]

39. Hey the 2nd's my favorite

I've thought for a long time that the 2nd is the key to all the rest. I don't know why Homeland Security isn't Homeland Defense. Security is what you use to protect your property. Defense is what you use to defend your person. I say arm the US Postal Service and make the Postmaster general a real general :evilgrin: That would put an armed uniformed Federal employee in every neighborhood 6 days a week.

[redstateblues]

58. How Can Anyone Not See A Clear Difference?

George Bush never did anything that his daddy didn't set up. John Kerry volunteered to go to fight for our country. He's not perfect, but he is a good man- an intelligent man- a man that won't be controlled by either wing. He is what we need now.

[TheWizardOfMudd]

2. Everything that guy just said is bullshit

Thank you.

[Dying Eagle]

3. I understand your point (don't agree)

Its just kind of a buzz kill tonight. I am sure the board will be back to normal business by tomorrow.

Edit: adding stuff

[mellowinman]

4. And just how have your principles served you

under four years of George W Bush?

Just curious.

Would you like four more?

Because as bad as he's been; just imagine him if he didn't have to worry about re-election!

Do you want the world to DIE?

Because its on its last legs RIGHT NOW.

I will be right with you asking the WORLD of PRESIDENT Kerry.

I only have ONE requirement of CANDIDATE Kerry.

1. Beat Bush.

[Snoggera]

5. You are mistaken

with your initial supposition, and therefore, the rest of your message is meaningless.

Go back to the starting place and try again.

[TreasonousBastard]

Call me when we get the perfect candidate...

I'll be waiting, but not holding my breath.

Until then, I'll support Kerry. He may not be perfect, but he's pretty damn good.

Oh, and you are perfectly free to have the Democratic party I grew up with, complete with Tammany Hall and segregationists.

[scarletwoman]

6. "Kerry begging and pleading with John McCain..."

That's just plain bullshit. And an argument that starts out with a blatant lie is a damn lame argument.

sw

[Kimber Scott]

56. That's where I quit reading his post and scrolled down to see what

everybody else had to say. Kerry didn't beg and plead with McCain to be his VP.

Something about lies just hit me the wrong way. Especially since I've been being lied to, at least 500 - 600 times a day by people in the Bush administration and all their cheerleaders for the last 3 years.

Want to make a point? Don't lie, I'll listen.

[Skittles]

7. I agree with Newcastle

Kerry was not the best candidate we could have had but we are stuck with him now.

[Snoggera]

8. Do you agree with this statement of his?

Kerry will become president, but only because George Bush is the most Gawdawful president imaginable or un-imaginable.

and this:

Kerry has not done a damned thing to deserve your vote, and he has no intention of doing a damned thing to deserve your vote.

[Skittles]

9. yes

yes I do

[TheWizardOfMudd]

10. Do you agree that Kerry claims there is nothing wrong with the Patriot act

[Skittles]

12. Kerry voted for the Patriot Act, more than likely without reading it

the fact that he may have misgivings about it now is pretty f***ing sorry.

[TheWizardOfMudd]

14. Perhaps

But the original poster states that Kerry is claiming there is nothing wrong with the Patriot Act. That is a lie.

[Skittles]

15. he must have thought that way when he voted for it

sickening

[TheWizardOfMudd]

19. At the time of the vote

Who among us knew that Bush, Cheney and Ashcroft were the sick fucks that they are?

[Skittles]

23. I F***ING DID

ANYONE WHO WAS PAYING ATTENTION KNEW. Dear GOD, STEALING THE ELECTION SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST CLUE.

[teamster633]

29. And * handing the job of Attorney General

to a raving fundi that couldn't even beat a dead guy in his bid for a senate seat in a red state might have been a second clue.

[Skittles]

30. I cannot BELIEVE some DUers didn't know about these EVIL F***S

for so freaking LONG! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[merh]

24. At the time the Patriot Act was passed, we had just been attacked by

a bunch of terrorist and every body was scared sh**less. The act was touted as our answer to stop terrorism, sounded good. Do I think it was wrong that no one in Congress bothered to read the Patriot Act? Yes, it is horrible and I am ashamed of every smuck who voted for it. That being said, at that time we had no idea that weedboy, chaingang, ashwipe and crew were as rotten as they are. Their corpse had not been out long enough for the stench of their rot to hit our noses. Oh sure, we knew it was rotten how they stole the election, but that's politics, dirty politics, but politics. Who would think that they intended to over throw our nation with their elitist, nazi ways?

Kerry is the only viable candidate that can defeat weed boy. He has my vote.

[Skittles]

28. I DISAGREE

I KNEW BUSH WAS AN EVIL BASTARD WHEN HE WAS MY GOVERNOR. Democrats had a DUTY to PROTECT AMERICA after 9/11 but instead they BENT OVER AND HANDED THE VASELINE TO A CORRUPT MISADMINISTRATION.

[merh]

32. I will not disagree with you that it wasn't obvious that Bush was

evil when he was gov of Texas and I will not disagree with you that the Dems in power in 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003 were a bunch of chicken shit cowards who took the RW neo-cons crap lying down. When the rethugs won just about every election they wanted, it is easy to understand that dems were discouraged and figured the people wanted them to act like rethugs.

That was then and this is now. Please try to get beyond your superiority and try to recognize that the momentum is shifting. An election for the Democratic candidate can be a mandate to every elected Democrat and hopeful Democratic candidate that the people are not going to put up with the crap any more. A defeat of the neo-cons can help us reclaim our party and our nation.

FYI - My gov is a clone of bush and I am stuck with him until 2008, I know he is evil, I know he will try to do to MS what bush did to TX and I know he has hopes for big things in the RNC in 2008. Not a whole lot I can do but vote against any one he supports and to warn those I know. I have hopes that Victory in 2004 will help the Dems here. The fight won't stop with the Victory, it will only just begin. We have too many rethug neo-cons in office and we need to get them out.

[Skittles]

36. of course I will vote for Kerry

but he ain't no Clinton and to pretent that the Dems have only dropped the ball for the past few years is ludicrous.

[merh]

38. I understand your frustration and agree that the Dems have

dropped the ball, I blame that in part on Clinton. Yes, he was a wonderful president, the best we have had in years. However, he handled the bj job all wrong. Also, he was a centralist, the party lines really began to blur because of him. (IMHO)

[Skittles]

40. I don't blame Clinton

as much as I blame the endless witch hunt to bring him down - and the spinelessness of the Democrats and the media whores who allowed it to happen.

[merh]

45. The press and the spineless dems share the blame with Clinton.

If he had come clean and/or employed the Bushco tactics of ramming down the press' throat that his private life is his private life and what happened before he was prez had no consequence to his job while prez, then it would have been nipped in the bud. (IMHO)

[tnlefty]

54. Skittles has a very valid point and it isn't JUST Dimson who should've

caused a lot of concern. How many of these corrupt criminals are retreads from Nixon's administration? From the Reagan administration? Then there's Poppy and the criminals from his administration. It's not as if this cast of bad characters wasn't already known by those in DC.

[wildwww2]

55. I sure as hell did. Skittles is correct. We that think knew. No brag.

Just fact.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[Arianrhod]

63. I knew they were.

I'm very happy that F/911 is opening a few eyes. But there are a lot of us on DU who have known all of these things right from the beginning. If a nobody like me can grasp such knowledge, then I find it impossible to believe that career senators didn't have it, too.

[Snoggera]

11. Okay, I can accept that

I have a sister that seems to feel the same way. She was a Dean supporter. Were/are you?

[Skittles]

13. No

I voted for Kucinich. Dean just seemed too out of control for me (although I do believe he energized the Democratic party), and Kerry sickened me with his votes for IWR and the Patriot Act.

[countmyvote4real]

16. If we vote for Kerry instead of Bush* we’re whores?

Please spare us your moral high ground while the ship (our democracy) is sinking. The Democratic prostitution you suggest won’t bring in a fraction of the Halliburton whore’s profits under this Repuke administration.

And yes, I agree that fingers can and should be pointed at reps on both sides of the aisle. But (and a big butt it is), there is no numerical alternative to * except for the Democratic nominee. It happens to be Kerry. Not my first choice either, but he’s better than * and at least could temporarily stop the RW corruption of our country.

In the game of martyr vs. whore, we can also choose to be a citizen and stop the current madness. Things are not as black and white as you suggest.

[Skittles]

27. he's not saying that at all

he's saying we as a party need to hold our leaders ACCOUNTABLE. They have been terribly derelict in their duties for some time now.

[countmyvote4real]

51. So who can the Dems hold most accountable if their candidate wins?

Nader, Bush or Kerry? (Sorry if I overlooked some greenspicelibertarian.)

[TrustingDog]

17. same shit, different pile.

[HuskerDem]

18. Cheney you and the Chenying horse you rode in on...............

Only the very young or very, very simple do not understand the stakes this go around.

Arrianna Huffington said "When you're house is on fire..... It's not the time to sit around and talk about redecorating."

Perfect.

[merh]

20. Thanks for sharing your concerns, but you are way off base on the

majority of them. The first problem I have with your post is your concern for the party over the nation. Our main concern is to take our nation back and we cannot do that unless we elect someone other than weed boy in November. The most important issue is to defeat bush.

You are wrong when you say Kerry supports Patriot Act. Go to his web site http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_1201.html

His foreign policy is different from weed boys. How can that be you say. It is easy. Other nations do not trust the U.S. and will not trust the U.S. until weed boy is gone. If we elect Kerry, then the other nations will see that the American people are as outraged about weed boy and his lies as they are. This will also be an awakening for the Democratic party. Kerry as president can then regain the trust of the other nations of this world and that is a much better foreign policy than what we have now. Even weed boy saw that Kerry was right in his position that we need to get U.N. and NATO assistance, that is why weed boy has tucked his tail and is trying to get their support now. But like I said, no body trusts him because he lies, any foreign policy that does not include weed boy is better than what we have now.

If you believe that press that Kerry begged McCain to be his VP, then that is your problem and I am so sorry that you are willing to believe the mainstream media's propoganda (mostly put out there by bushco). I, for one, believe Kerry and McCain when they say that the offer was not made. Possibilities might have been discussed, an invitation does not necessarily follow.

I am sorry your candidate, whoever that may have been, did not win the primary. Get over it.

Once we get retard out of office, we can work on the policies that are important to the Democratic party. But, personally, I don't see the party as any different from the repug and it won't be until we, the majority, show them by a commanding victory that we are tired of all the crap and that we aren't going to take it any longer will we be able to get the party's attention.

No more Mr. Nice Liberal/Democrat. We must stand up for our believes, scream at the top of our lungs until we are heard and keep screaming until the Democratic party takes us seriously. We are tired of being ignored, silenced and sold out.

But, as I said earlier. We begin by dethroning King weed.

If you are not happy with things, then stay away until after November. Today is a small victory because the eyes of the moderates, undecided, average American are being opened as they watch Farenheit 9/11. The message is getting out and it feels good.

That is my rant.

[fearnobush]

22. So by only removing portions of the Puke ACT makes Kerry a whore?

I agree it is not enough, but for fucks sake, BBV is still largely unresolved and Kerry could indeed win, just like President Gore did. We need to stand united to win while pressuring our lame ass party to fight these scumbags. Bashing Kerry only helps Bush. Kerry fucking Rocks dude, over 90% of our choice.

"Kerry has not done a damned thing to deserve your vote"

Oh and by the way... Kerry has done more than you obviously know to rock my vote. If it were not for Kerry, Iran Contra would have never
been known.

John Kerry Rocks - My belief, my vote.

[Dover]

25. I was also disheartened about the Kerry win...and now quite possibly

the Edwards VP.

Michael Moore was on Conan O'Brien tonight and Conan asked Moore why he didn't show the same concerns about Kerry, and the fact that his foreign policy was not significantly different than Bush's, and his pro-Patriot Act and pro-War stance early on? Moore said it DID concern him.

His invitation to McCain may have been a political ploy, but the message it sent to me was that the ideological and corporate sponsorship lines between the two parties is, in many respects, cosmetic. Everyone knew Kerry was an insider, and the DNC knew the anti-Bush furor would carry him to the finish line.

When I heard that Edwards was invited to the Bilderberg conference in early June, that's all the evidence I needed that he would be VP pick and, of course, was not at all the 'outsider' he would have people believe. But, unlike you, I've decided that bringing up this sore subject is fruitless, because at this point there really IS no other choice that I can see..except to let Kerry know he should not take our support as a carte blanche acceptance of his policies. People do fall into the "winning team" mentality very easily......and Kerry is the new quaterback called into play after a losing streak. Of course the game and the rules are the same.

[Pastiche423]

26. Most people are not outraged

because they are in denial that the Democratic Party is dead.

Many also screamed ABB!. Welp, that's exactly what they got.

I am sickened, disappointed and very, very pissed off.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vetwife]

34. I have seen Kerry..He says the Patriot Act needs a makeover..

High Moral ground this time around..if that is what some dreamers want to call it.. ItIs not taking the high moral ground. They are taking the higher end of the Titanic and Guess what. The ship sinks.
We get Bush again and we just hit the iceberg and you may be at the top of the boat but you are still sunk. We can hold Kerry's feet to the fire. I will vote Kerry. This election is too important to let this country become the Roman Empire. There won't be another election while some dreamers are wanting and waiting for the perfect candidate. That just is not reality . It's Bush or Kerry..Thats it !

[JHBowden]

37. There is a BIG difference between Kerry and Bush.

Big differences exist on social security, health care, education, abortion, civil unions, progressive taxation, capital punishment, gun control, school vouchers, etc. etc.

Can the Democrats bat better in the clutch? Yes. But to claim the party has been "stolen" by the Republicans is ludicrous.

[JayS]

65. Kerry does differ from Bush in a BIG way on the subject of...

...gun control; that is what worries me. The Democratic Party has pushed the same old tired brand of gun control for too many decades and it is long past time to pick a better brand.

[funkybutt]

41. "make no mistake" = bushism

I'm a proud kerry supporter...sorry your candidate didnt' get the nod...get over it

[OKNancy]

42. Partisan Hack here

and proud of it. I'm a Democrat and I stick with the nominee of MY party. My party, the Democrats, have given more to this country than it probably deserves and I'm not bugging out just because it's a rough time.

Yeah for John Kerry! Yeah for the Democrats!

Beat those BUSH BASTARDS.

[TrustingDog]

43. good rant - I agree. n/t

[Sweetpea]

44. We just want to work with someone in the White House who is

good at formulating sentences.

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. Of course I am

outraged.

I am giving Kerry the benefit of thedoubt and my vote becuase he is not Dubya. If he doesn't make great strides for the progressive cause during his term, I am voting Green again in '08.

[mdmc]

48. f911 sure didn't make Kerry look like a hero

f911 made war out to be something that is fought by the poor and invested in by the rich. War owns the Dem party as well as the GOP.

[Liberal Gramma]

47. Who is a viable alternative?

What do you suggest we do? Any vote NOT for the Democratic candidate will help to give us another four years of Bush. I would vote for Caligula against Bush.

[Sparkly]

49. Yeah, why are you Democrats bashing Bush instead of Kerry?

Ummmm.....

[Cocoa]

50. Kerry never said that about the Patriot Act

that misinformation was thoroughly debunked during the primaries.

Try again.

[lumpy]

52. Kerry never begged and pleaded

with McCain to be his running mate. That statement is unadulerated bushwah. Pitiful post.

[Avalon Sparks]

53. What's going on here is....

ANYBODY BUT BUSH!

[Lindacooks]

57. "Kerry has not done a damned thing to deserve your vote,"

Oh, really? I'd say serving with honor in the U.S. Armed Forces certainly deserves my vote.

[drdigi420]

59. You don't remodel when the house is on fire

Thanks for that one Arriana!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

60. Well...that was an interesting pack of lies and misrepresentations.

[Geo55]

61. Standard Triage

Stop the bleeding.
Reduce the trauma.
Then look to the patients rehabilitation.

[unkachuck]

62. I feel your pain too....

....I'm just afraid after we elect Kerry, and he pisses on the left, the same old tired crap will be pulled out in 2008...'ya wanna elect another Bush?'....

Yeah, we have to vote for Kerry, but I feel we've really got no leverage....

How do we pull the Party left when the Corporate Democrats fight us almost as much as the Corporate Republicans?....

[lumpy]

64. There has never, but never. been

a president as incompetent and inept as Geo. W. Bush. His radical idealist 'advisers' are not to be trusted and the members of his cabinet are abysmal. Congress, once again, has to be restored back into the hands of competent Democrats who care about the future of this country. Kerry is not another Bush. Kerry has experience, prestige and intelligence and will most likely surround himself with people who are competent and who will work to try to mend the tremendous ill that Bushco has bestowed upon the US. The Democratic party doesn't have to be 'pulled left' to do the right thing. Politics just isn't a matter of left or right. It is a matter of doing the right and honorable thing.