zaj
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 03:51 PM
Original message |
Have you run into any word class spin-masters online? |
|
Guys who will debate in forums and pull all of the professional political tricks?
Not just the becoming very common things like blindly advancing rhetoric and uninformed lies...
But the real pros...
The people who skillfully attempt to control the terms of the debate.
- They will start a new thread rather than respond to your debunking one of their posts so that they can seperate the posts, and more effectively attempt to reset the conversation on their terms, rather than being on the defensive on your terms. - They will choose not to quote your post (vBulletin/PHPBB), but rather paraphrase your comments so that they can regain the defintion of the terms of the conversation. - They will paraphrase segments of a cited supporting article rather than pulling the actual quotes so they can restate the quote in their own language. - They will quote a single segment of a larger, more extensive quote, and then describe the context of the quote in their own terms in order to redefine the terms of the discussion in their favor.
In the past, these kind of discussions were inadvertant acts of "talking past each other". But that act of talking past each other has recently become a deliberate tool of propaganda and manipulation.
It's a MAJOR problem in our fast-paced, sound-byte media where talking heads use duplicity to plant one seed while leaving a technicality escape-hatch when challenged as a "liar".
I find it fascinating that I encounter more and more people who are using these very intentional and very skillful (a learned/taught skill) conversational tactic.
|
greenbriar
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 03:54 PM
Response to Original message |
|
there are a few "experts"
on chiefs planet
one word
|
zaj
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
tjwash
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 03:58 PM
Response to Original message |
2. They are also known as... |
wicket
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 04:04 PM
Response to Original message |
|
I run into people like this all the time, though one that hangs out on another board I frequent stands out particularily.
|
Mayberry Machiavelli
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 04:05 PM
Response to Original message |
5. No, just the usual suspects who mouth talking points a lot and engage |
|
in a lot of "shouting" via their keyboards. Really tiresome.
|
Warpy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 04:30 PM
Response to Original message |
6. Chat forums sport college kids who are paid to log hours |
|
every day spouting RNC talking points. They're usually pretty easy to spot, the ditto list varies little, they rarely converse, and the timing is often predictable.
I guess it pays better and is easier work than stocking shelves in the campus bookstore or busing tables in the cafeteria.
|
Mayberry Machiavelli
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
7. If seven hundred monkeys typed for seven hundred years, |
|
one of them would produce the works of Joseph Goebbels.
|
BrotherBuzz
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 04:51 PM
Response to Original message |
8. Here are a few tools to fight back |
|
Logical Fallacies
Ad Hominem Argument The person rather than the position is attacked
Bandwagon Argument Assumes the popular position is almost necessarily the correct one
Circular Argument The truth of the conclusion is assumed by the premises
Either/Or Argument Two and only two options are provided when alternative positions are available
False Analogy The two items compared are dissimilar
Hasty Generalization The sample is too small to support the generalization
Non Sequiter Argument A statement is made which does not logically follow from what has been just stated
Post Hoc Argument Because one event follows another the first event is assumed to be the cause of the second event
Red Herring Argument Argument which distracts the audience from the issue in question through the introduction of some irrelevancy
Slippery Slope Argument A series of increasingly unacceptable, usually disastrous, consequences occur
Strawman Argument Attacking an argument that is different and usually weaker than the opponent's best argument
Beware of the real sneaky ones that use combinations of the above to really mess with your head. Some will actually argue a non sequiter hidden inside of a red herring and slide into a circular argument while trying to rile you with an ad hominem (you get the idea).
|
Pepperbelly
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
11. The list does leave out the most egregious- butchered logic and |
|
ignorance.
It is AMAZING how many people do not have a clue regarding how to assess the logical validity of propositions using the classical methods.
|
BrotherBuzz
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
12. Silly me for assuming that those were a given. |
|
Edited on Wed Jun-30-04 05:07 PM by BrotherBuzz
:)
On edit: a bad speilling and syntax day.
|
MercutioATC
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 04:52 PM
Response to Original message |
9. Check out the 9/11 forum here at DU and look at some of the CT posts. |
|
Some of them are masters at it.
|
Pepperbelly
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jun-30-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message |
10. I have met poseurs who believe themselves spin meisters. |
|
It usually turns out that they, of course, are not. Rather they are usually self-involved talk radio listners who really believe Limbaugh's "how to defeat a liberal" nonsense.
Chumps.
|
DU
AdBot (1000+ posts) |
Mon Apr 29th 2024, 11:54 AM
Response to Original message |