What should the Democrats do if Bush wins.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

Im hoping we can have a serious give & take here without people pulling out their hair and accusing me of being a freeper or posting pat answers that "Kerry WILL win!" or stuff like "We won't have any more elections becuase we will be under a Fascist dictatorship" or "its Diebolds fault" or some similar onliner.

Frankly, if anyone posts stuff like that to this thread you are going on my ignore list. I don't have time for online BS.

I am talking about a serious what-if scenario and strategy discussion here. How can the Democrats position themselves for the midterms and 2008 in the event of a GOP victory this fall.

[bluestateguy]

1. What will I do?

Take a break from contemporary politics for awhile, then everytime something bad happens to this country, sit around and say to all the people who voted for either Bush or Nader or did not vote "I TOLD YOU SO" with the most annoying finger wag imaginable.

[seabeyond]

5. me too me too.........throw up hands and say i am done

yup........and lots of i told you so, and lots of protecting myself and mine

[Dr.Phool]

8. In all honesty

I'm checking out ex-pat communities in Costa Rica and Mexico.

[movonne]

2. There will be no Democratic party if they win...this is why this

election is so important.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. There'll be no country or world either. He's determined to bring on

Armageddon.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

12. What makes you say that?

Presumably the Democratic party will continue to have representation in the Senate and House, as well as in the statehouses and local government.

What makes you say there will be no Democratic Party?

[tom_paine]

30. Consider this...Clinton/Gore presided over the greatest modern period

of Peace and Propserity in Recent American History.

Due to all the things (media, Bushevik ruthlessness, vote fraud, a $2 billion Lie Laundry, a cowed Foremrly Free Press, etc etc etc) that you DONT want to hear about on this thread, even with all that Clinton/Gore had going for them, they could only muster a 500,000 vote majority.

Conversely, and almost demonstrably provable (lacking only the convictions and orange jumpsuits) the Bush Imperial Administartion utterly reeks with collusion and conflict of interest. They took us to war based on demonstrable lies, the "no-bid" contracts suggesting pre-war collusion (can you imagine if CLINTON had done ANY ONE of those things?) and so much more...

With all that, it's still a "Dead Heat".

I would argue, even IF the Amerikan Voting System were Mostly Clean and Trustworthy (they are NOT, IMHO), the various Orwellian Imbalances in media, money, and all the rest, will increase exponentially in Bunnypants* second term, thus making a Democratic Victory of any kind literally impossible.

To Conclude:

Clinton/Gore had a wildly successfukl Presidency in terms of income gains, economy, and Quality of Life for Millions.

They could only muster a 500,000 vote majority.

Bunnypants could well be the worst pResident in history, so bad he isn't even pResident but Emperor. Demonstrable corruption drips from his every pore.

And yet, Kerry cannot even seem to get above a 500,000 vote majority (at least if you believe the polls, which for our purposes we will), so to speak.

Something is terribly wrong when that happens. Something is deeply wrong.

So, for that reason and others, is why people believe there won't be a Democratic Party. Hell, if the Busheviks aren't careful they will Orwellianize things so much that THEY will have to one day support and run their Sham Opposition Party, perhaps during the Reigns of Caligula or Nero Bush.

And I believe people are correct to feel this way.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

36. What would you call, then, the Congressional delegation....

...that call themselves "Democratic".

Are they not Democrats? Do you think they will somehow disappear or change their name if Bush happens to win in 2004?

[tom_paine]

55. What good is an Opposition that does not function as such?

They can call themselves "Green Cheese" if they want.

But the bottom line is that if an "opposition party" offers no opposition, they might as well not be there.

Don't get me wrong. I am out there, busting my ass and my bank account, whatever reservations I might have about the balls of the Democrats.

When you're drowning, you don't quibble about what name is on the Life Preserver.

having said that, on almost all levels our democratic Party seems to be making the IDENTICAL mistakes the German Social Democrats made in the 30s.

These same fault and flaws ALSO allowed 30% of the nation to take it over and turn it Totalitarian.

In Imperial Rome, did not the Caesers retain the useless Imperial Senate as a sop to Romen republican and libertarian sentiments, even thoguh it was powerless and could have been easy to do away with?

Oh, there will be a Democratic Party still around. It would be bad Marketing and Public Relations for the Imperials to identically emulate the Nazis.

But if we grow any weaker, more frightened, and more irrelevant to stopping or even slowing Imperial Tyranny, well than, Bunnypants* will have his completely supine Imperial Senate, won't he?

But the key word is "more frightened". Damn it, I volunteer for the Kerry campaign, but nationally, his campaign is as tepid and weak as Gore's.

It's enough to make you SCREAM! NO negative ads? When we have an Emperor who's actual words, buried and hidden by the Corporate TV Pravda, NEED to be shown to people. Who's words would hoist him on his own petard as surely as "farenheit 911" is doing the same.

And yet, Kerry remains silent...no negative ads. No broadcasting of Bush's words to a propagandized and a disinformationalized people who haven't heard them THEY AND NEED TO!

With "opposition" like that, who needs toadies?

My point: Even after all this the (w)ussy DLC "please don't hurt me" rolls along as if nothing has changed and Kerry is essentially running Gore's campaign from a national TV perspective.

Oh, the Democratic Party will remain around, even more frightened and emasculated than they have been, if you can imagine that.

[Mechatanketra]

57. I feel your pain.

You don't quibble about the name on the life preserver -- but it's hard not to feel a little bummed if it's not floating ...

[sam sarrha]

13. They will stack the Supreme Coure and we will never be rid of them

[piece sine]

25. Actually...

the Democratic Party certainly will continue to represent a huge (if not majority) portion of American voters. I think the current DLC would be literally cooked. How many elections can Terry blow before rank and file Dems. are finally fed-up?

In the UNLIKELY event of a Bush win, look for a dreadful, Nixonian like second term. Dubya will not have moment's peace while Hillary marshals her considerable forces for 2008.

Look it, f Americans are THIS angry over Bush as things stand now, I can't imagine Bush winning their hearts and minds even IF he finds a way to snooker-out an electoral college win.

This is a purely hypothetical answer to a thoughtful question. We need MORE challenging probing of our views at DU, not less. (Sometimes the flame-throwers quash challenging issues before some of us can intellectually debate them. I love the folks here, but it CAN be echo-chamber of like-minded partisans. And don't tell me to go lurk at Free Republic, I get sick to my stomach! Literally.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

34. LOL..yes, I do think hubris will do them in.

Thats the problem with the GOP and particularly this administration..they are just too cocky and they overrreach. We can be sure this will be a very close vote, which could mean a rocky second term.

The Dems could really be set for some pickups in 2006, and then a big win in 2008, as we have a pretty deep bench of potential candidates.

[ThomWV]

3. I think it would be the death of the party

And I really don't know where it would go from there. I think a much more conservative wing of the Republican party would splinter off with a like minded but socially liberal bunch of one-time Democrats and form a truly viable alternative to what we have on either side today, but with the innocence of youth in a corruption and sellout sense. So I think the Democratic party would die but a new, third party would rise up made of of strong Democrats and fed up conservative Republicans. That combination would kick the hell out of the radical branch of the Republican party that has taken power. Unfortunately it wouldn't help with the courts, which are going to be polluted by Bush (should he win) for the next half century.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

21. well, if the GOP had a real big majority, maybe.

you might see a schism if the GOP was super-dominant, but they really dont totally control Congress given the near 50/50 split in the Senate.

I think the Dems will still be viable as a party given their institutional strenght and still substantial representation in Congress and elsewhere.

I do think there would be debate as to what direction the party would take. I dont see and split or fusion between wings of the GOP and the Democrats.

[sam sarrha]

26. death of freedom and world peace..

[patricia92243]

27. I think you're right. Do you think it would happen by the next election?

[mzmolly]

6. I've seriously considered Canada.

:shrug:

I haven't the faintest idea. I'll probably focus on changing the media, because if * wins, they're not doing their job.

[AntiCoup2K4]

32. No, they ARE doing their job

The job that the corporatist fascists pay them to do.

What they are NOT doing is being the responsible, investigative bulldog mediaof decades passed. When Bob Woodward, the man credited with bringing down Nixon, becomes a total Busheep, that's an example of how far the media has fallen :(

[mzmolly]

39. I guess technically your right. They are pleasing their bosses ey?

:puke:

Imagine if someone started a *real* news network? There's a hunger out there in America, Moores new film demonstrates that. :hi:

[Warpy]

Although a Bush win without the stench of voter fraud

(how unlikely is that?) would probably end this country as we know it, it would also be the death knell for the DLC as the kingmakers in the Democratic Party. Either the party would lurch farhter to the right with an even worse set of "leadership," or it would take the opportunity to become a real opposition party.

Of course, by then it would be too late. The Supreme Court and the Federal judiciary would be packed with wingnuts, so many civil liberties would be lost that we will never get them back again, and we will be a world pariah, possibly facing a world war.

Er, that is if the military doesn't step in, which they very well might if the Bush gang continue with their military adventurism.

[LTR]

7. Demand a recount

Or watch Bush destroy the country so much he alienates most of his base.

[mark11727]

9. For starters ---

The Democrats should drop the be-nice-bipartisan nonsense, and not be afraid to call the admin on its mistakes. It should also not be afraid to disagree with the Republicans an all issues foreign and domestic, out of fear of being labeled unpatriotic or divisive.

They've already played that hand, and look where it's gotten them.

(Edited for fat finger syndrome).

[Realityhack]

33. I disagree

A ligitimate Bush win would cause them to think that what they have been saying and especialy what Kerry has been saying is out of line with what people who bother to vote want. I think this would quiet them down more as they tried to hang on to their seats for the midterm elections. Even if they did try to make a fuss who would hear them?

[Birthmark]

11. If * wins, then the Democrats will...

...kiss my ass good-bye and forward my mail to Canada.

[mike1963]

14. I plan to keep the following (probably now seditious) words in mind:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.

[Kurt Remarque]

15. it would be tough not to be mightily discouraged

but i think we would have to regroup eventually. the 2006 congressional elections could be a disaster for a lame duck bush

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

28. Yes, esp. if the GOP overreaches and Bush doesnt clean house.

If Bush doesnt clean house in his adminstration and the GOP overreaches with a far-right legislative agenda the Dems could postiion themselves to do what the GOP did in '94.

Also, I think the public would be definetly ready for a change come 2008. The GOP would have to nominate a particularly appealing candidate to win that year, or the Dems nominate a real stinker.

[mike1963]

43. Like the double entendre in your username

:D

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

16. I need to clarify something here about this question.

I asked not what would you , the reader, would do, but whay, in your opinion, the Democratic party should do?

[eaprez]

20. What Democratic Party?

I think it would cease to exist in any meaningful (meaning it has no real power) way.

[Ready4Change]

44. What should the Democratic party do?

They should realize their current methods are relegating them into obscurity. They can either go peacefully into that night, or grow a spine, some teeth, and offer up some real opposition, rather than rolling over as they so often do.

One thing they should do, no matter who wins, is kick Zell Miller out of the party. He votes and speaks with the Republicans most of the time, so it's not like the Dems would be loosing anything. And it would send a message they are MAYBE getting serious. But keeping him on the Dem rolls just makes the Dems look desperate.

[Spiffarino]

61. Agreed - Miller must go!

Dumping Zell Miller is long overdue. The man is a pariah within the Democratic Party. He's an Old South Democrat, exactly the type that turned Republican when Reagan played the race card in 1980.

Allowing Miller to remain a member of the Democratic Party when he completely lacks any Party bona fides - and shills for Bush - is an absolute disgrace, and proves once again that our Party needs an immediate cojones transplant.

[Worst Username Ever]

17. Build a bomb shelter

And get a vascectomy. No use having my kids growing up in this type of world.

[swag]

18. I will give more money to ACLU,

Planned Parenthood, NARAL, Stop Prisoner Rape, ACLU Prison Program, the DEMS, and other causes I believe in (rationality in laws, sentencing, etc.). I will focus on local politics until the next rounds of state and federal politics. I will press the media, seek to inform friends and neighbors, examine how I failed the last time around and ask myself how I can be more persuasive and more understanding. Gotta still fight for that Constitution, of course, still fight for the establishment of democracy in the USA that can serve as a model for the rest of the USA (huh?).

Read more, have more sex, drink less, eat less cheese, ride my bike to work more, save enough to buy the best hybrid on the market, etc.

[eaprez]

19. I've considered this...

....I think the democracy is in jeapordy because of corporate rule - it may already be too late. If the Repubs retain control and stack the courts --- their power may last for decades. I'm looking into moving to another country...Canada is my first choice. I am also thinking of selling/storing everything and going to work overseas for some charitable organizations - I'm a nurse so I can probably find something to get in to.

[Corgigal]

22. try to start

an underground railroad for people being drafted to fight in Iraq.
Both my boys are turning 17 in a few months so you know this scares me.

[stubertmcfly]

23. i have been...

...looking into moving out of the country to be honest with you. (p)resident dickhead is bad enough in his first term... i cringe to think about how bad he would be in a no-consequences second term.

[Worst Username Ever]

24. Not going to leave the country...

Quitting the fight is for cowards.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

29. My concern would be the judiciary.

I think the Democrats will come back, with gains in 2006 (depending on how much Bush and the GOP overreach), and for sure in 2008, at least, but by then the conservatives would have seeded the Federal judiciary so they could "rule from the political grave" by overturning Democratic legislation.

Still, even with this constraint I do think the Dems could make a political comeback. The public just will get tired of the same-old same-old of one party running the show.

[truhavoc]

53. Reflecting on the Supreme Court as a political body, sad times for america

n/t

[Ready4Change]

31. How does he win? What I do depends on that.

If he seems to win, fair and square, then that's just the way the ball bounces. I'll be a bit dissappointed in my fellow Americans, but if most of them vote for Bush, then they've spoken.

What I do in other circumstances depends on WHAT other circumstances.

[Ishoutandscream]

35. History is cyclical. If Bush "wins"

2005 and/or 2006 will be just like 1972 and 73 (if Bush "wins."). More enemies' lists, no-bid contracts for Halliburton and other pals of the administration, and harassment of anyone who gets in their way. The fraud and corruption will catch up to this administration and we will once again see a president waving goodbye to all of his sycophants on the White House lawn as he boards his helicopter to (gulp) my home state of Texas. It'll be Nixon all over again.

On edit - can't forget the year 1974, either.

[Realityhack]

37. You have a ligitimate question but...

I think the answer for most people is simple... move on more of the same thing they always do.
Many will probobly take some time off from politics. A few who can may actualy leave the country.
But for the majority it will be buisness as usual.

The democratic party will go on. Those in office will be even more afraid to speak up. The media will be even more bold in its bias.

On the good side it will probobly continue the slow decline of Rush.

RH

[OKNancy]

38. The Democratic Party should

1. Raise tons of money. Do grassroots organizing and fund raising over the internet all four years, not just at the last minute, and build a huge war chest.
2. Target House and Senate races..not just easy ones but some iffy ones. Spread out into swing states and even move into the upper south.
3. Vow to have a net gain in the House of one seat per state and do everything they can to win that seat in 2006. ( Now if a state like Hawaii has all Dems already then get two from New York or California)
Also make an example of one or two of the big wigs in the Republican party...like Delay...recruit a really good candidate and give him tons of money and win it. It would do wonders for the propaganda value.
4. Use the media better. Get movie makers on our side to do more of Moore type movies.

On edit: get Howard Dean to be the Democratic Party Chair. That would be a real shot in the arm.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

42. I love your post !!!

I can see this as a rebuilding time for the Democrats, and I really like your point 3, about really setting goals and going all out to meet them.

And your point 2: Its possible for the Dems to spread out into iffy areas, and regain the upper south. Look at KY. Chandler won, and it looks like Clooney is doing good too.

This is do-able.

on edit, I think we should be doing this anyway, even if Kerry wins.

[OKNancy]

51. Yes I think even if Kerry wins

especially to not give up on parts of the country. I am especially sensitive to this, being from Oklahoma. Remember our lovely Jim Inhofe? The Democrats could have won that race with a little help from the National party. Even Republicans hate Inhofe.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

52. I also remember Fred Harris...

from back in the '70s. OK used to be good for Democrats, even populist progressive ones like Harris.

[info being]

48. Too late for all that

Its now or never. They HAD 4 years to do that.

[iconoclastic cat]

40. Democrats would absolutely have to clean house.

Fire everyone. Popular revolution.

[Delano]

41. I wouldn't call you a freeper...

Just a defeatist.

The results of the election are yet to be seen. Bush could "win" but the democrats might take back both houses and impeach his ass. Who knows.

[librechik]

45. exactly what we did last presidential election when it was stolen

whatever that was...

(I'm an official PESSIMIST!)

[eissa]

46. I couldn't bear it

I'd be curled up in a fetal position, quivering and crying like a baby.

As for the party, quite honestly, I would cease from donating a single penny until it cleansed itself from spineless DINOs like Daschle, Miller and Lieberman, and vowed to stand up and fight as it should have been doing these past several years.

[Radical Activist]

47. Armed Revolution

seriously, we already have an illegitimate President. How much more is it going to take?

[Radical Activist]

49. Or, refuse to cooperate with the government in a nonviolent way

What would happen if 25% of the most outraged American public stopped paying taxes because they don't recognize the legitimacy of the government? There aren't enough federal prisons to hold that many people and government operation would be crippled. It wouldn't be hard to shut down the government in a nonviolent way if enough people were outraged enough to actually do something about it besides vote and throw up their hands for two years.

[nose pin]

65. The IRS doesn't put people in jail

They put a lien on your house, your bank accounts, and any other liquid assets. If that doesn't cover it, they come to your house and sell your furniture, computer, TV set, and anything else that has value. Then they keep hammering on you every year with an audit, even after you come back into "compliance".

[Jacobin]

50. Well, if they continue what they have been doing, there won't be anything

done at all.

particularly if congress is controlled by the nazis

[eridani]

54. Make it impossible for him to govern

Start impeachment proceedings. Don't approve a single appointment. Filibuster every major initiative.

[JayS]

56. If Bush wins the Democrats should take some time to do a...

...little thinking about why things have been going so badly for so long. If Kerry wins the Democrats should take some time to do a little thinking about why things have been going so badly for so long.

[belle]

58. No idea what they *should* do, but here's what i think *would* happen:

Total chaos. I honestly don't think the Bush administration can hold onto their office for another four years even if they do somehow win the election. Well, first of all, if it's another squeaker, I expect the Dems to fight a *lot* harder than they did in 2000. And if Bush manages to win by a considerable margin...well, it could happen, but not without some serious dirty play, *I* think. So first of all there'd be a big ol' mess over the election itself. Then I think the bastards will just autodestruct, honestly, although they may well take most of us down with 'em. For one thing, they'll almost certainly try to start the draft, and that would almost certainly cause protests that would make the 60's look like a walk in the park. Yeah. I dunno. I guess just expect the unexpected.

Personally, I don't believe they will win, Bushco. In a way, a Kerry win is almost as big of a "now what?" Maybe more so. Either way, fasten your seatbelts--it's going to be a bumpy night.

[bossfish]

59. First, sober up...

...after an ugly bender...

[progressivebydesign]

60. Begin the impeachment... N/T

[renyufei]

62. kerry will win

i support kerry for his policy to china

[Spiffarino]

63. A Plan

1. Get rid of Terry McAuliffe and retire anyone who helps John Kerry lose the election.

2. Marginalize and/or destroy the DLC. Being Republican-Lite marginalizes the Democratic Party -- pay it back in kind.

3. Use the DNC to promote Dems in the House and Senate who can and will block Bush's agenda.

4. The only way to slow down the Bush juggernaut will be to completely control at least one branch of government. We must use every penny and every political device to win back both houses of Congress in '06.

5. Move immediately to set up our own Democrat-leaning media corps. The Repubs did this brilliantly throughout the '80s and '90s while Democrats slept and it has been biting us on our collective asses every since. We must obtain a powerful presence in radio, TV, on the Internet, etc., if the Democratic Party is going to survive.

6. If none of the above, then it's time to start a new Party with a more powerful, compelling message.

[kodi]

64. bear the burden of a long twilight struggle & rejoice in hope

"... a call to bear the burden of a long twilight struggle, year in and year out, rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, a struggle against the common enemies of man: tyranny, poverty, disease and war itself."

jfk 1961

nothing lasts forever and the seeds of defeat are oft planted in the gardens of the victors.

what i think will happen is howard dean, al gore, and dennis kucinich will arouse a grass roots activist movement that will bury the gop in 2008

[andino]

66. If he wins..

I think that we will take the Senate so if bush does win we can block his ass and make him look like shit for a few years.

As for what I will do right after the election, I think I will drink myself into next the month and then take some time off.

[Zinfandel]

67. He won't ever win...Never legally. Stealing it, is another question!

Fascist will do as they please. There can be no "serious talk past this election"..tthis is for the whole ball of wax...If the fascist, (who'll portray themselves differently, at their lying corporate national repug. convention, as moderates, Ugh!) Never ever exposing their true ideology. (nor will the corporate media).

So what are we gonna do? Fall asleep again and point fingers?

[Make7]

68. Divide and conquer

Research to find out what the major voting blocks that support the Republicans are. Then start a new political party (or two, or more) that would represent those voter's views and beliefs more effectively than the Republicans. If you can get a big group (or a few small groups) to abandon them, it could be devastating for the Republican party. For example - if you could just get the Evangelical Christians to vote for candidates other than Republicans, it would make a huge difference. Pat Robertson as a third party candidate anyone?

Implementing this idea may not be easy for many reasons and has a small risk of backfiring as well (very small). And of course the other thing that should be done that is closely related to this idea, but not nearly as fun, is trying to incorporate enough ideas from existing third parties into the Democratic platform to get some of their votes.

Of course if either party can come up with an idea to get a large number of the 50% non-voters to come out to the polls and vote for them, they would have a decisive advantage. What that idea might be is beyond me though.

-Make7

[Dover]

69. I think we should all agree to a plan now to go to the capitol enmasse.

If Bush "wins" then it's time to take real action or kiss this country goodbye. Other countries have done as much, and we may be near such a point.

I don't think it's possible that Bush can win in a legitimate election, so if they pull a fast one...whatever that is....we should really have some kind of plan rather than be lost in chaos or fear or whatever.

[Sirveri]

71. I think what will happen is that

the dem's will demand a recount, and then fail to recognise the government and try to actually split the nation. I think we will see the lazy sit on the sidelines while the patriots go to war.

[Sirveri]

70. I think we should go ahead

get some KY, and take it like a man while sharpening our shiv as we get ready to stab him in the face. Him being the GOP of course.

I'll likely be in the Navy praying to God (which is a feat since I'm agnostic) that he doesn't touch off WW3.