Gay marriage/Civil Unions

[Delarage]

This topic keeps coming up in my arguments with right-wingers. They feel that allowing gays to use the term "marriage" will undermine civilization as we know it.

Which made me think: why doesn't the government consider all "marriages" (heterosexual or homosexual) to be "civil unions." If the couple wants to have it termed "marriage," they can find a church to have the ceremony. But "marriage" licences could be called "Civil Union" licenses, etc.

This way, the state wouldn't be sanctioning one vs. the other and individual churches could sanctify the union as a marriage as a private religious matter.

[Blue_Roses]

1. I had this argument today

with a rightwinger. He said Christians had been asleep at the wheel and they should have pushed this issue awhile back:eyes:

We had a very "spirited" debate

[Warpy]

2. Point out that gays have gotten married for months

in a few states. Then ask them how it's changed their lives.

What they're really saying is that it's uncomfortable for them to have to think about marriage in a new way.

The sky aint falling. They'll get used to the idea.

[Delarage]

4. They really are stupid

The air they breathe is being filled with noxious chemicals, thousands of innocents are dying in Iraq, thousands are dying in the Sudan, money is being taken from the lower and middle classes in this country and given to the top 1%, public education is under assault, and they get all worked up over a relatively small number of people pledging to share their lives.

[Kenergy]

3. I think it's a good idea

[BayouBengal07]

6. If gay marriage is a threat to the sanctity of marriage,

then we should ban divorce and kick pedophile preists out of the clergy. But nooo...

[lagniappe]

8. Nice username!!!!

I'm always amazed at how many divorced Christians use the bible as a weapon to attack gay marriage.

[LiberalVoice]

5. Couldn't have said it better myself.

The sanctity of marriage bullshit is exactly that. Give EVERYONE civil unions and keep their religions out of the govt.

[Swede Atlanta]

7. It's about fear, control and privilege

Part of the concern about gay marriage from the standpoint of conservative Christians is the fact that they have never really gotten over their fear of homosexuals. They adhere to a fundamentalist and literalist interpretation of the Bible and consider any type of homosexual orientation or activity sinful in the eyes of the Lord. So for them to allow "gay marriage" is a total affront to their belief that homosexuality is evil and sinful.

The next reason they are so worried about gay marriage is the loss of control and privilege. These heterosexuals are so caught up in having something that they can deny others, not simply to deny it to others but because marriage carries with it benefits and privileges. They believe it is their god-given right to enjoy those privileges because they are in a heterosexual marriage. They certainly don't want others to enjoy those same benefits. It is as much about control and privilege as it is anything else.

I fear the time has not come for us to address this issue head-on in this nation and certainly not in this political climate. I fear the nation is in for years of hotly-fought battles over the gay marriage amendment in state houses across this land. I do not believe it will be successful because there are enough states that abhor discrimination to prevent adoption by 2/3 of the states. On the other hand even among states that are less worried about discrimination, there is concern about using the amendment process to deal with a matter that is of intense social and political debate. That is not what amendments are for. The last time we did this we ended up with Prohibition and we all know the destructive effects that had on the nation.

I totally agree with the idea that all "civil marriage" is "civil union" and that bestows on heterosexual and homosexual couples the legal incidents to "marriage". Those who seek religious recognition of their relationship could then proceed with "marriage" in a church, synogogue, mosque or wherever their religious beliefs lead them. But the legal recognition is done at the secular level where both heterosexual and homosexual couples would gain government recognition of both the rights and obligations of this "marriage" or union.

[Sugarbleus]

9. I was in total support of the stand San Fran took in marrying

couples several months back. Then, I got to thinking. What IS the difference between CIVIL UNIONS and MARRIAGE? Exactly, I mean. What does it mean to the G/L community; what does it mean to the rest of us. I am pro civil unions for g/l couples with all the benefits it provides. So, again, what's the difference between the two terms: Marriage and Civil Union???

'What's it all about, Alllllllllfiee?

[donhakman]

10. BAN GAYS

[Sugarbleus]

13. ..... still doesn't answer my

question. I really am trying to learn the nuances here so I can better help support the cause,see.

My sister in law, her daughter is a beautiful woman. She is lesbian. The mother loves her daughter ( I guess)...they do things together and all that but when I asked her about the same sex marriage issue, she flipped out! She says 'civil unions yes, marriage no'... I want to know what the difference is in the G/L community. I'm not even sure I know what it means. I'd like to be able to debate the issue with sister in law coherently. Thanks

[dsc]

11. It is having a marriage lite

which is the real risk to marriage. Think of all the heterosexual couple who choose to cohabitate instead of marry. If you give those couples an ability to have many of the rights of marriage with fewer of the responsibilities they are likely to take that deal. Any lesser form of marriage will not remaain a gay only thing for long. Thus you will have many gay couples who are denied an ability to marry to save marriage but also may straight couples who would otherwise marry refusing to do so. Kind of ironic isn't it.

[Djinn]

12. Good idea

"If the couple wants to have it termed "marriage," they can find a church to have the ceremony."

But I'd go a bit further - those who want a more "righteous" partnering and the "blessing of God" have to get and stay married in accordance with that particular religion, including some of the following:

* NO DIVORCE
* no sex AT ALL unless you are legitimately trying for a baby
* allowing hubby to have up to 4 wives

[truthspeaker]

14. Because marriage IS a civil union

There are many people for whom marriage does not have any religious significance.

[bookfreak]

15. You may find this helpful

Legal Marriage Primer


The word “marriage” has two major meanings. One is a civil, legal status — the other is a religious or social status. It is important to remember that this separation is critical to understanding the issues involved with the struggle for equal treatment in the civil sphere.
Legal marriage triggers 150-to-250 laws in every U.S. state. It has been reported that Connecticut has 588 laws that are triggered by legal marriage. And on the Federal level, there are more than 1,049 such laws. These civil laws, in order to be just and fair, should apply to all citizens equally.

The civil right of legal marriage is not just a mere matter of semantics, culture, or social grace. It is the right to be considered a full adult and be treated the same as any other U.S. citizen.

In America, there is no state church, and no religious body has the right to dictate state policy. Civil marriage laws are the sole domain of the state.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

Source: http://www.buddybuddy.com/mar-prim.html

[Moderator]

16. bookfreak

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