Abuses in the Abu Ghraib children's wing

[Sliverofhope]

Here is a clip from German news, unfortunately in German, regarding abuses of children in Abu Ghraib.

Remember Sy Hersh's saying that there were "far worse things involving children" and that "(we) haven't begun to see evil."

And I've been reading that these videos of child abuse are on the CDs with the rest of the pictures

Any German speakers who can translate interesting tidbits would be appreciated. My German knowledge is far too basic.

http://tinyurl.com/2eynn

RealVideo file.

[Stocat]

1. Someone translate please

A translation of some rudimentary form would be very very appreciated.

[Sliverofhope]

27. Drawing

[LibertyorDeath]

2. Link not working for me

I have the latest version of Real Player.

There must be someone here that can translate this or knows someone that can.

This is very important you should re post or kick this post during the Day time much more traffic then.

[allemand]

3. for more information look at this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x668288

[cthrumatrix]

4. leave it to the "foreign press" to share the truth....ours is owned and

controlled - for the benefit of a "few"....and to mislead and screw the american people.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. Yeah. Anyone remember about how

"far worse images and revelations" were coming down the pike, and some folks in the administration were pushing to release all of it at once? ...And then? Hmmm. A couple beheadings and a little bit of "hey! look over here" and--just like the story of the extremely statistically unlikely selling short of airline stocks right before 9-11 that "whoops, where'd it go?" disappeared down the memory hole-- the media or whoever is just counting on our attention span to be so damn short, that if they just wait a cycle, everyone will forget that the 20 or so photos they released (with the "few bad apples" who were responsible) were just the tip o' the iceberg, by all accounts. And they're right. We're never going to see any of that stuff.

[allemand]

5. my partial translation

sorry in advance for the errors !

[LittleApple81]

6. Thanks for the translation. n/t

[allemand]

9. final part of translation

<...>

According to Suhaib sometimes detain whole families, who seem suspect to them. It is difficult to check the testimonies of single witnesses.

We continued to search for further proofs for the detention of children. And really, UNICEF in Geneva <...>. We find an explosive report, :

Quote:

"Children, who had been detained in Basra and Kerbala (..), were routinely transfered into a detention facility in Um Qasr."

The detention camp Um Qasr. Recordings from 2003. Today it is too dangerous for reporters to travel to Um Qasr. The facility, a prison camp for terrorists and criminals. Here, of all places, the Americans are said to have detained children like prisoners of war. UNICEF writes:

Quote:

The categorization of these children as "internees" is alarming, because it means an undetermined term of imprisonment without contact to the family and without the prospect of a legal proceeding."

<...>

Florian Westphal, International Committee of the Red Cross: "Between January and May of this year we registered 107 children during 19 visits to six different places of detention. One has to point out here that these are really places which are under the control of coalition forces."

The Red Cross registered underage detainees in Um Qasr as well as in Abu Ghraib. Thus, two international organizations confirmed to us independently, that the occupation forces are holding children as prisoners. But we were unable to obtain information directly from the prisons. Not even UNICEF was allowed to visit the prison for children in Baghdad.

Quote:

"In July 2003 UNICEF applied for a visit to that detention facility, but the access was denied."

According to UNICEF, there have been no independent observers at all since December.

<...>

Barbara Lochhibler, Secretary General of amnesty international Germany :

"The US government has of course to make representations about this report, it has to provide concrete information about how old these children are, what are the reasons for their detention, under which circumstances they were detained. And if children were subjected to torture and abuse. And yet we don't even know the names of the children, how many children there are. Independent inspections are not wanted. It is a scandal."

Moderator:

Of course we have confronted the persons in charge with the results of our inquiry. The British Ministry of Defence told us: Children or youngsters are not being held by British troops. We are still waiting for a response by the Pentagon.

[HFishbine]

20. allemand

Thanks for that effort. Much appreciated, and welcome to DU!

[duhneece]

25. Welcome, Allemand

and "Donkey Chains" for your translation.

[Sliverofhope]

36. Thanks for the translation

Really a big help.

[allemand]

47. You're welcome ! Now let's get these Iraqi children out of prison

and back to their families !
According to UNICEF and the International Committee of the Red Cross, two completely impartial organizations, there are still more than 100 children in prison camps under the authority of the US military. They are not even allowed contact with their families.

There is absolutely no reason for these children to be in that place. Let's get them out. Now.

[CWebster]

7. This past weekend, on C-Span

there was an interesting talk by an author who recently researched and wrote a book on George Washington. Something he said which stood out was that Washington was known to treat prisoners of war humanely--with decency and compassion. Washington's respect for humanity increased his standing, and by extention, the reputation of the new emerging country.

A sad contrast with those who now claim the mantle of displaying the face of US patriotism to the world.

[mark11727]

15. I have an eleven-year-old daughter...

...and if anyone ever did anything to her even HALF as evil as what I've just read, I would be forced have to hunt down these animals.

Golly, I wonder where all the insurgents came from?!?!?

[Rose Siding]

8. Some of this was covered in the US without much notice months ago

In this case, not only are age and treatment the offending issues. This is another example of the taking of family members as hostages to obtain cooperation from the 'subjects'. It's lunacy. Who among us wouldn't have spoken any words to avoid such treatment of our children? Would I lie? YES! Want me to sign something? OKAY!

Published on Thursday, May 20, 2004 by Knight-Ridder
Military Analyst Describes Abuse of 16-Year-Old in Iraq Prison

WASHINGTON - A military intelligence analyst who recently completed duty at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq said Wednesday that the 16-year-old son of a detainee there was abused by U.S. soldiers in order to break his father's resistance to interrogators.

The analyst said the teenager was stripped naked, thrown in the back of an open truck, driven around in the cold night air, splattered with mud and then presented to his father at Abu Ghraib, the prison at the center of the ongoing scandal over abuse of Iraqi detainees.

Upon seeing his frail and frightened son, the prisoner broke down and cried and told interrogators he would tell them whatever they wanted, the analyst said.
...
Sgt. Samuel Provance, who maintained the 302nd Military Intelligence Battalion's top secret computer system at Abu Ghraib prison, gave the account of abuse of the teenager in a telephone interview from Germany, where he is now stationed. He said he also has described the incident to army investigators.

Provance's account of mistreatment of a prisoner's son is consistent with concerns raised by the International Red Cross. The Red Cross noted it had received reports that interrogators were making threats of reprisals against detainees' family members.

Provance already has been deemed a credible witness by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who included the army sergeant in a list of witnesses whose statements he relied on to make his findings of prisoner mistreatment at Abu Ghraib.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0520-07.htm

[AirAmFan]

21. "Did US take innocent children hostage to gain their parents' 'cooperation'?"

Thank you for this link. It deserves its own permanent thread on the DU homepage.

The White House and its defenders should not ever be allowed to utter the words "family values" again without being questioned about these outrages.

Has any WH reporter asked Scott McClellan, "Did the US hold any children prisoner in Iraq? Was the IRC allowed to visit them?"

[Mari333]

10. oh god I am so sick. god. n/t

[soup]

12. I just feel so helpless.

Don't want to know this. NEED to know this. Is there anything we can do? Who do I write to about this? Who can I call? Who will listen? Who can stop this insanity?

How do we sleep, knowing this? How do we live with ourselves, knowing this?

allemand, thank you for the translation. and Welcome to DU. What a sad, sorry, sickening world we live in, hey?

[Realityhack]

26. Yes...

Tell every living human you know. Look up the aplicable international laws. Make coppies. Distribute them. You can start with the geneva convention, convention against torture, various conventions on the rights and protection of children, UN charter, etc etc.

Make sure people know what happened. Make sure people see Rumsfelds note on the torture memo. Do not let this story fade quietly into the vacume of intentional ignorance.

Make sure Bush looses in a Landslide. Even states virtualy garenteed to go kerry can help set a president. The larger the percentage of total americans voting for kerry the more power he will be able to weild to investigate this.

Then call your and write your representitives.

RH

[Tsiyu]

13. Who believed that Bush Co cared about kids?

In this country, we sentence 12-year olds as adults. We have a foster care system that routinely "loses" children. We have policies in place with this administration that show clearly and distinctly that children can suffer as long as the CEO's of America can get a tax break. And we're confused because we mistreat children in other parts of the globe? Bush, Cheney, Asscroft et.al. don't care about the kids in their own country. They are soulless bastards but who on this board didn't realize that?
I just don't understand those who can still support these monsters. It frightens me to think I am living in a nation without even the semblance of a heart or decency or compassion. I don't believe in any god for this very reason - the way children are treated. If there was a god, it would care. It would strike down the animals who get their gratification from hurting babies. But we just all go on our merry way and pretend not to see. And there is no retribution for this evil. What Would Jesus Do? Not a damned thing, apparently. And neither will our courts or our legislators or our leaders. What a sad time we live in.

[cthrumatrix]

19. compassionate conservatism from the admin strikes again

how dare they cover this up....WTF is the media?

[Kanary]

31. Thank you, buddyhollysghost! Yes, it happens here in the US

Our treatment of our OWN children is horrific........ why would we expect that we'd do any different around the world?

All the "children's services" in the US are being cut, are riddled with abuse, and it's being ignored.

Some "Family Values"

Thanks for bringing this up........ it needs to be said!

Kanary

[SilasSoule]

38. Well said buddyhollysghost and a hearty welcome to DU

I am a big fan of this singer/sonwriter named Cary Swinney (See sigline) who has a perfect song for your DU name:

http://www.caryswinney.com/music.htm#september

Seventh of September

A tribute

It's the seventh of September
a visionary time

And I have come back from the future
I've come to see what once was mine

It's a solitary journey
when you're a ghost of rock-n-roll

And though my own hometown now claims me
they will never have my soul

So they gather in West Texas
you know, the place I chose to leave

Where they've encased my black rimmed glasses
I just stare in disbelief

You see for years I was forgotten
but now I am their favorite son

And on my birthday in September
they take the money and they run - see them run

I hear crickets in the evenin'
I wipe the sweat off of my brow

In a garage on thirty-seventh
it's an illusion to me now,

Ain't it funny how things happen?
I mean once you're dead 'n gone

Seems now everybody knew me - and loved me
young and old now sing my songs

And Santiago smells the money
I should've seen that all along

Her new alliances with commerce - her lawsuits
my songs... my songs

I was once a young musician
a song writer, so they say

And though an aeroplane did take me
it seems I never fade away - not fade away

[Tsiyu]

40. Beautiful Song

Thanks to those who said hi. I am grieving over all of this so much. it's sad to think that a nation as big as ours, with all the knowledge and resources we have, now has the reputation of being no more than the haunt of very sick and base men and women.

I know there are soldiers in Iraq who would never do such things, who are helping children. Let's not forget them. But to those who went along with this administration in torturing innocents: I hope you rot.

"The Day The Music Died," huh?

[truebrit71]

14. This makes me so friggin' angry...

We HAVE to get these bush bastards out of office this fall..and then have a whole series of investigations into the abuses and crimes pepertrated by this evil cabal of sadists...I want the GOP to be shattered into a thousand tiny pieces with the shame they have brought upon this great country....:flame:

[PaDUer]

18. War crimes

it can't wait til Nov, because they might cancel the elections due to the "terists" attacking again as they've been saying..
Plus, just think of these military people who've been brainwashed, manipulated, and had to "follow orders", another Viet Nam. Wonder what they're going to be like when and IF they come home. Wonder what they'll do here..Psychiatric problems big time, and they will be denied treatment by the govt because they've been slashing more and more of their benefits.

[Tsiyu]

16. Kick

[Kellanved]

17. Direct Link

For people like me not trusting tinyurl - tinyurl does not need to know what my surfing behavior is, nor do I like not knowing where I'm headed. (I suppose it leads to the same file).

http://www.swr.de/report/archiv/sendungen/040705/02/04070502.ram

Also, two Threads about this, one includes a translation by Allemand
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x668288

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1935547

[gtar100]

22. "But Americans aren't like that" - wait, yes we are

I want to support our military. We need them and they need to be there for the stability of our nation. When it comes to these war crimes, those at the top are ultimately responsible. But each person who involves themselves is culpable. Why aren't these soldiers standing up for what is right and saying that this inhumane treatment of children, families, men and women is dead wrong? Why are so many instead going along with it? These are our sons and daughters after all. We can say it's about the pressure of combat and following orders, but in the end torture is committed one on one. Obviously we've instilled the herd mentality into our soldiers much more than a sense of justice. After all, how do you command an army of people who can think for themselves?

But I guess this shouldn't be such a surprise. The kind of people that are capable of such heinous acts are born and bred in American culture. They are those that get a good laugh out of the ridicule and suffering of others and don't give a second thought to the source of their income and profit. It's so very common in our culture and even more common in military culture. Of course it's not every soldier in the military. It only takes a few crass individuals to convince others and alienate anyone who does have a shred of compassion. We are so accustomed to scoff at those who care (ie, 'bleeding heart liberals') that in order to stand up for what's right, we have to be willing to be subjected to ridicule, humiliation, alienation and false accusations.

Until we "Americans" stand up and admit to our own failings, in particular our self-centered mentality, then this crap won't stop. Let's remember we were born into it. Euro-Americans come from a background of thinking that we know what's best for everyone and that if we want it, it's ours to take. Europeans "conquered" the world by sailing into foreign lands with guns in hand and laying claim to everything and everyone. On top of that, we were the carriers of the "true message of God" with the mission to convert everyone to our religion. Even taking Africans as slaves - my God! what gall!! And overrunning the Native Americans as if they were in our way. The details of all their murders are largely ignored and dismissed as irrelevant by mainstream culture. But really, what has been done is deeply unjust to its core. This is part and parcel of our heritage.

For the most part this mentality has not broken down and remains intact. Witness Abu Graib. Witness the torture and imprisonment of men, women and children across Iraq. Guess some forgot we were there to "liberate" these people. And somehow it's more palatable to some of us because they are "Iraqi" and not "American". If it were 150 years ago, these same troops would have been shooting Indian men, women and children in the back shortly after we signed a treaty with them.

But I don't think it's an American problem anymore than "racism" is strictly an American problem. It's humanity. Humanity itself is rising out of a violent and bloody past filled with injustices that have gone unpunished and forgotten. This has happened before, only the names and nationalities have changed.

I really wonder if we can do it differently this time. I think it's possible only if we are wise enough to stand up to ourselves and admit our own wrong-doing. I think it helps to remember that "America" and "we the people" are not a "person", not a single entity. There is a tremendous diversity here because "we" are the meeting ground of all humanity. So it's important for those with the heart and mind to learn from the past to stand up to those who are making the "same old mistakes again", to get them out of power and have the voices of compassion and reason be heard. We may have a chance if we don't let this administration get away with trying to sweep this torture scandal under the rug. It truly shows the disgrace and shame of their motives. Those at the top must be held accountable for these crimes and it must be made clear that the military (and police for that matter) are in service to the public, not for their own sake, not for self-appointed presidents and officials and not for the selfish interests of corporations. They are here to protect the people from those who would do us harm and serve the community of people. If leaders in military and civil service don't get it, the cycle of destruction will lead to a well known conclusion.

It's a paradigm shift. I must admit I remain skeptical.

[Sliverofhope]

23. kick n/t

[Zen]

24. I don't even wanna hear about this crap - it's gonna make me go nuts

on these smug little freeper cowards skulking around and imitating humanoids.

[Realityhack]

28. I sent several emails but...

now have to go.

FIRM KICK

[DaveSZ]

29. How do we get our US media to cover this?

Bush needs to go down over this.

[BattyDem]

30. The fact that Abu Ghraib even has a children's wing ...

pretty much tells me everything I need to know. There is no excuse for this. No explanation will suffice. None. When other countries talk about fighting terrorists, they're going to be talking about us. :-(

[DaveSZ]

32. Rumsfeld gave go-ahead for Abu Ghraib tactics

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/04/wtort04.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/04/ixnewstop.html


Rumsfeld gave go-ahead for Abu Ghraib tactics, says general in charge
By Julian Coman in Washington
(Filed: 04/07/2004)


The former head of the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad has for the first time accused the American Secretary of Defence, Donald Rumsfeld, of directly authorising Guantanamo Bay-style interrogation tactics.

Brig-Gen Janis Karpinski, who commanded the 800th Military Police Brigade, which is at the centre of the Abu Ghraib prisoner-abuse scandal, said that documents yet to be released by the Pentagon would show that Mr Rumsfeld personally approved the introduction of harsher conditions of detention in Iraq.


Brig Gen Karpinski with Donald Rumsfeld, after Guantanamo chief jailer Maj Gen Miller's visit to Iraq

In an interview with The Signal newspaper of Santa Clarita, California, which was also broadcast on a local television channel yesterday, Gen Karpinski was asked if she knew of documents showing that Mr Rumsfeld approved "particular interrogation techniques" for Abu Ghraib.

[Iris]

33. And this is going to stop "terror"?

The world will surely think whatever happens to this country is what we deserve.

[Treaghon]

34. Unbelievable....

Just.... unreal.

[Sliverofhope]

35. kick n/t

[DebJ]

37. Will someone please post evidence that this is garbage? I

just can't believe this....

[Media_Lies_Daily]

39. Unfortunately, this is what our elected representatives in Congress....

...have seen and are trying desperately to keep the American people from seeing.

[Sugarbleus]

42. I wonder if we will ever be allowed to see the whole thing?

I also wonder if the bush cartel and company will ever be brought up on charges. It doesn't seem right that they should just get to walk away once they lose the election.. :grr:

[nosmokes]

41. why isn't this all over the news?!? ~kick~

as if i din't know...

but i can't even find anything by googling...

[Sliverofhope]

43. kick n/t

[antigone382]

44. More Than 100 Children Imprisoned, Some Abused, at Abu Ghraib

Here's a story I found when I did a google search.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2004/070504childrenimprisoned.htm

It's basically just a recap of what's already been posted, but it's in English.

[nosmokes]

45. kick n/t

[AmyDeLune]

46. I sent this

e-mail to my Senator:

Dear Senator Wyden,

I thank you for the excellent job that you have been doing.

I am, as many citizens are, concerned about the treatment of prisoners in Iraq and other US and coalition forces detention facilities. It has recently been brought to light on German televison and confirmed by both the International Red Cross and UNICEF, that children are being detained and abused at Umm Kasr and at least 5 other coalition controlled sites.

This horrifies me, and the fact that the US media has failed almost entirely to cover this story frightens me.

This situation is intolerable. It shouldn't allowed to be tucked away in hopes that it will never be revealed or quickly forgotten. President Bush harps constantly about "family values" and "morals".

Please hold him and his cabinet accountable-- I would like to hear him explain how imprisoning and abusing children is representative of America and his own self-proclaimed "Christian values."

Thank you for your time. Keep up the good work.

Sincerely, Amy --------

[nosmokes]

49. great letter.

kick.

[MountainLaurel]

50. Might I plagiarize it

For my own letter to the senators? Except for the part about thanking them for the excellent job they are doing.

[jukes]

48. kick

for the day watch. this is an important revelation.


:kick:

[nosmokes]

51. kick

indeed.


:kick:

[nosmokes]

52. kick

:kick:

[Sliverofhope]

53. kick n/t