Presbyterians call the invasion of Iraq “unwise, immoral and illegal."

[El Supremo]

by Alexa Smith


RICHMOND, July 2 — The 216th General Assembly approved two actions on Iraq Friday afternoon.

The first was a report, “Iraq: Our Responsibility and the Future,” that lays out a plan for Iraq's reconstruction and pledges the Presbyterian Church (USA) to support the approximately one million Christians there — including about 2,500 Presbyterians.

The Assembly also passed a measure deploring the torture and abuse of prisoners in U.S. custody in Iraq and in Guantanamo, Cuba, and calling Presbyterians to repentance on their account.

Both measures came to the Assembly through the Committee on Peacemaking.

The paper on Iraq condemns the U.S. policy of pre-emptive military action against nations perceived as a threat to the United States as ethically indefensible and contrary to the “just war” theory that has been the basis of much Christian theology on warfare.


Continue reading here: http://www.pcusa.org/ga216/news/ga04122.htm

[Kanary]

1. That's great, and I imagine other denominations have said similar

However, it would *also* have been *great* if they had spoken up, loudly, *PRIOR* to the beginning of the war.

Maybe they did and I didn't see any news on it.

Kanary

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Lots of Christians spoke out against the war before it happened

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1102-07.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0208-07.htm

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[Kanary]

12. Thanks for the links....... I was "outta da loop" at that time

I was staying away from media (still do) and I can no longer stand the bias.

So, sometimes I miss things. :)

However, I'm not at all surprised the "leadership" was taking an active protest role..... that's tradition for them.

What was different in the article posted is the *denomination* itself, not just the leaders, making the statement. That comes from the people, not only the leaders, and hence, in my view, is a stronger statement. I also know it's not easy to get a statement like that passed by the church body, so it has impact.

Again, thanks for the links........ I enjoyed reading them.

Kanary

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. You are welcome. I am always happy to point out when a

groups of Christians is doing the right thing instead of the right-wing thing. *l*

[El Supremo]

7. They did

The National Council of Churches was pleading with Bush weeks if not months before the invasion. His own pastor asked him not to do it.

[Kanary]

9. I'm sure they did....... it would have been a radical departure if they

hadn't.

I guess I was more commenting on strong statements by individual churches.

Kanary

[juslikagrzly]

23. Thanks

Supernova. I'm really neglecting my house/kids/husband/work, etc. etc. getting so hooked on DU. What a GREAT place! I'm feeling more hopeful and energized than I have in years.

Edit: should have been posted below---oops!

[Insider]

2. amen

thanks for the conscience.

still believe without a doubt rove had a hand in pinning down the catholic church and keeping them away from their potential (traditional role?) opposition to war

[lovedems]

6. Not in my Catholic Church. Our Msgr. spoke out against the war during his

homily in the lead up to the war and during the war. Rove tentacles must not be that long.

[Insider]

11. individuals, yes

but the church as a whole (1) still smarting from the scandals, suffering possibly diminished image or moral authority, and (2) preoccupied in terms of the resources required to deal with scandals

[Quahog]

10. When was the Catholic church "pinned down?"

The Pope spoke out vociferously against the Iraq invasion prior to bush* pressing the button. As I recall, he said in thinly veiled terms that the chimp was writing his own ticket to hell.

Our pastor and priests spoke out against action in Iraq prior to the invasion, and I have heard anecdotal stories of the same sort of statements being made in Catholic churches around the country.

What is your source of information about Rove being able to affect Catholic churches on any level, parish, dioscese, etc? Do you have specific examples of priests or bishops who defied the Pope on this issue?

[Insider]

13. all opinion, my own asessment

the catholic church had to use enormous resources to deal with a long-term issue of child abuse, which surfaced at a time when some of those resources may have been used in opposition to war. and the image has been tarnished. i won't search for all the headlines in the past 3 years referencing abuse issues the church had to address.

[Quahog]

15. Opinions are fine

I just don't understand the connection you're making between the sex abuse scandal and an anti-war stance adopted by the Catholic church from the Vatican on down. The church's official position was clear and widely publicized. It was made a part of the mass in many churches throughout the country. The cost of litigation in the abuse suits had no impact on the ability of any priest or religious to speak out to the laity on the illegality and immorality of the war. God bless the Presbetyrians, but they are behind the curve on this.

[Insider]

19. not 'stance', maybe 'impact' is better

maybe i didn't put it the right words. 'stance' was not what i am referring to. maybe 'impact' is a better word. the impact of the stance of the church was diminished, i believe, at least in part by the other issues.

in the last 3 years, i remember many more headlines about abuse allegations, prosecution, history, etc than i remember about the anti-war stance. and if resources wasn't an issue (not just money, time effort, leadership conference time, ability to organize & execute effective demonstrations, etc), then image & moral authority was.

bottom line, IMO the traditional opposition to war was undercut by rove/atwater tactics. or maybe it is just another coincidence that fit the needs of this admin.

[GOPBasher]

3. All major Christian denominations opposed the invasion except Baptist

Even Bush's own denomination, Methodist, opposed it.

[lastliberalintexas]

8. Only the SBC, I believe

Other Baptist organizations were opposed (like the ABA).

[rocktivity]

4. Wow, that's almost enough to make me want to be a Presbyterian again!

;)
rocknation

[juslikagrzly]

16. Presbyterian models of governance

had a great impact upon the writing/wording of the Declaration of Independence. Presbyterians have always valued a well-educated and well-informed citizenry. I'm fairly proud to call myself a presby! The general assembly (much like our legislative branch) moves slowly, but any good democracy will, and should.

[supernova]

17. Another proud Presby checking in

:D This is such wonderful new! I expected them to pass such a resoultion and they did. w00t! w00t! w00t!

On a related note, we also elected a pro-gay rights elder as Moderator. We still have to repeal parts of our Book of Order than exclude gays, but the day is coming. I've felt it more this week than in many years.

[juslikagrzly]

18. I'm with ya supernova - eom

[supernova]

20. Welcome to DU juslikeagrzly!

:hi:

When you have time, stop by the Lounge and say "Hi."

[juslikagrzly]

24. Supernova,

see post #24 above. I haven't quite got the hang of this yet. :-).

edited to add post #.

[Kanary]

21. Isn't it great to see something moving in the right direction?

We all need those uplifts.....very badly.

Congrats to the Presbys!

:hi: :hi: :hi:

Kanary

[supernova]

22. Yes, it is!

:hi: Kanary