Gay rights activists about to out closeted Bush administration members?

[Paragon]

http://www.wonkette.com/archives/in-through-the-out-door-017342.php

Talk that gay rights activists are going to out closeted Bush administration members and politicians is getting louder and louder around here -- not so much a whisper campaign but a deafening roar. The goal -- we think -- is to defeat the Federal Marriage Amendment, though we're puzzled by the logic: "Ha! You supported an anti-gay amendment and yet you're gay!" isn't really much of an argument for someone who has presumably lived with their own hypocrisy for years. The whole idea of outing has always seemed like overkill to us, anyway. We think being a gay Republican -- Wow! Your own private hell! -- must be torture enough.

That said, we wish that big homo George Bush would admit it already.

(more)
http://www.washblade.com/2004/6-18/news/national/wave.cfm
http://www.nypress.com/17/27/news&columns/MichelangeloSignorile.cfm

[Wind Dancer]

1. It is the right of an individual to reveal their

homosexuality, nobody elses.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Yep.

[Paragon]

3. I agree.

I suppose the activists' rationale would be desperate times, desperate measures - and I can see their side, too.

[SophieZ]

6. Just like Strom Thurmond and his daughter?

I think when a publically-elected representative is spouting bigotry, hatred and discrimination in his public life, and is living opposite to that in his private life -- especially when we live in this society where the government and politics seem to have a hey day with running people's sexual and reproductive lives -- I think that kind of hypocrisy is fair game.

[Paragon]

9. Funny thing is, though...

His daughter gets punished, too.

[jukes]

40. SophieZ

apsitively! i normally wd object to this sort of thing, but they're lying hypocrites supporting repression. they shd be shown for what they are!


& welcome to the underground!

:hi:

[bingoboingo]

36. I don't see it

Pragmatically, this is a good tactic, but it may backfire on them.

[THUNDER HANDS]

5. dont' you give up that right

Once you tell someone, especially someone with loose lips (pardon the really awful pun) about the secret?

It is politics, afterall. Nothing is sacred.

[Wind Dancer]

11. Good question!

If somebody is told something in confidence, does it help to expose that secret for political gain? I would agree if it was dishonesty or criminal but not homosexuality. People's lives have been destroyed as a result of being "outed" so I have problems with what the activists are planning. I, however, understand the hypocrisy.

[noonwitch]

16. It may be politics, but I don't have to play it that way

I don't like the idea of outing gay people, but I was all for Larry Flynt blackmailing the GOP into backing off Clinton. The only difference, I guess, in these scenarios is that gay people (especially men) are treated far worse in this society than hetero male serial adulterers.

[THUNDER HANDS]

18. well you could always look at it

as embarassing a Republican. Since they would obviously consider themselves Republicans first, before they'd consider themselves gay.

[Lindsey]

7. I'm a lesbian and I diagree with you frustrateddeminnc

All gloves are off. I'm sorry. THEY are the ones who created the mess we are all in now - from Iraq to the current attack on gays & lesbians. When they did what they did to Clinton and we (the dems, the lefts) didn't realize how bad it was and we allowed them to turn this country into what it is now - that's IT. When I see an out lesbian like Tammy Bruce be COMPLETELY BOUGHT by them(there are simply no words in the English language to describe what a whore this woman is)- I know that we have to absolutely fight with EVERYTHING WE HAVE. I wish to God it wasn't like this BUT IT IS. BRING IT ON!

[Wind Dancer]

15. Lindsey, I appreciate your position!

I know this is a sensitive issue - believe me! I have a close family member who is gay so I will discuss this with him at length. He chose the place and time to be open and I respected his decision. Of course, I must add he has never been hypocritical and could never be bought nor embrace the likes of Tammy Bruce, never.

Thanks for your point of view, I respect your opinion.

[mitchtv]

28. hypocrisy should always be outed

thanks Lindsey. Since Clinton , I do not think twice on outing"conservatives" or Administraion employees. I am fighting for my survival with these Quislings- they should rot in hell. Mary Cheney is punishing herself by suppoting reelction, she is a legit target, along with any closet cases in repug admins.

[Kenneth ken]

59. I'm straight and agree with you

the fascist right wants to be able to denigrate, castigate, impugn and destroy a certain group of people, I think that group of people has the right to fight back with every tool and tactic at their disposal.

[Az]

22. Hypocracy vs Privacy

Its a tricky issue. Let us say that a man is a heavy drinker. However he builds his carreer up by destroying the lives of other drinkers. He champions causes that would ban drinking or increase penalties for drinking. All the while keeping his own drinking habit secret from the public. But those he drinks with know full well the measure of this man. They know that he is a hypocrit. They know that he is just using the denouncement of drinking to further his carreer. He is a threat to their way of life despite taking part in it himself.

It is a person's duty to expose hypocracy. It is a person's right to maintain their privacy. There is a conflict here. You cannot expose the hypocracy without violating the person's private life. Yet when they choose to assail anothers right to privacy and strip them of their rights then they have given up their right to that same privacy.

[AntiCoup2K4]

33. Don't know if that analogy works

A closet drinker could be behind the wheel at the wrong moment and kill someone. As far as I know, nobody's ever been killed by a DWG*

*Driving While Gay

[Karenina]

42. H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y

This is the ONE word I would like everyone to get correctly.

HYPOCRITE
HYPOCRITICAL (hypocritically)
HYPOCRISY

I post this pet peeve response to Az because Az is ALWAYS ON IT. :loveya: GENAU AN DER PUNKT. :loveya:

Az, you can call me an anal-retentive old bitch anyday IF you promise to correct and reset your internal spellcheck! ;-)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

35. Unless that individual is publically, repeatedly hypocritical.

Then I'm all for it.

[mondo joe]

49. I disagree. Sexual orientation is no more private than

I disagree. Sexual orientation is no more private or sacred than anything else we'd expect to be reported about public figures.

[mzmolly]

4. Very torn on this. The administration is making it an issue, but I think

it is an individual decision. I hope they tread lightly.

[SophieZ]

10. Well, reading the article

in the Washington Blade

http://www.washblade.com/2004/6-18/news/national/wave.cfm

it seems that the targets include Capitol Hill staffers. I would have a different answer on them -- they are not elected. They are not such public figures. While they may have an influence, they are not the final word on policy like their bosses are. Outing the staffers would be, I think, counterproductive. Maybe even mean.

[Cleita]

13. I agree about the staffers. They should be left alone.

I would draw the line there, but as for the rest of them....

[Unperson 309]

53. Uh Uh!

FUCK THAT!

Staffers support the machinery! Would you support the prison trusties who reported to the SS in the Concentration Camps?

Sorry! No fucking WAY! If you're that close to the machinery of oppression, you either throw your body on the gears and try to stop it or you get the FUCK outta Dodge while it's running.

If it accepts Repuke paychecks and it's Gay, it's fucking OUTED!

I feel VERY strongly about this.

309

[Cleita]

55. This isn't about concentration camps.

This about one's job. Just because you have to get coffee for a Repug, or type his/hers memos, etc. shouldn't make what should be your lifestyle away from work a political issue. On the other hand, guys like Strom Thurmond, who are on the record as being racist, should have been outted years ago.

[mzmolly]

14. I agree on staffers as well.

:hi:

[Kenneth ken]

60. bugger that

maybe the outed staffer would be someone the elected representative has a high opinion of; that might cause the elected rep to rethink their opinion of GLBT peopl overall.

The fascist right is targeting ALL GLBT people, not just the ones they think are "icky."

Let them know SPECIFICALLY who they are harming.

[Cleita]

12. In normal times I would say it's a private matter and not anyone's

business except for the principals involved. However, since this group of hypocrites is trying to destroy our democracy and replace it with a totalitarian theocracy, I say we need to expose the hypocrisy and lies of every single one of them. We shouldn't stop with gays, but name those who have mistresses and illigitimate children too, unsolved murders in their inner group, etc.. Then the blind followers will see the truth of those who are leading them over the cliff.

[Boomer]

19. Oy. I'm really torn on this one, too.

Outing is a very tough issue, perhaps because it hits so close to home. At what point is anyone's right to personal privacy trumped by the public's need to recognize political hypocrisy?

* Do you out a homosexual who supports anti-gay policies?

* Do you out a Nazi sympathizer who is a Jew?

* Do you reveal that a racist bigot has fathered a bi-racial child?

* Do you reveal the sexual antics of a married man who promotes family values?

In each of these cases someone is hiding beneath the protection of conventional morality. It's a "I've got mine, but you're going to hang for it" mentality. That's pretty hard to defend.

[mzmolly]

21. You make a good point.

You post is worth great consideration, thanks.

[kiahzero]

56. Yes to all four

You attach their political fortunes to the group that they belong to and are simultaneously attacking.

Make it in their best interest to not be such an asshole, and maybe they won't.

[porphyrian]

8. Hmm...Does This Mean An Outing War...?

Come out, come out, wherever you are! Do it yourself, or wait until the other side does it for you. What would that do to our social dynamic, if closeted homosexuals became the minority?

[FreeState]

17. As a Gay man that was outed while in a political position

As a Gay man that was outed while in a political position (President of the GLBT group on my college campus but not out to my family until someone outed me), I say OUT THEM ALL.

If you are in a position to make laws and or policy that effects your own people and you are not willing to stand up for them you deserve it. If I had the names of the GLBT persons working against the gay community in Washington I would be shouting their names from my roof top.

My very rights and life depend on these people. If your in a public position its all fair IMO. If you want to be closeted dont go into public service...

[Sweetpea]

29. didn't laura ingraham out some gays at Dartmouth?

[FreeState]

31. Im Not sure, could have (not my school) N/T

[Kenneth ken]

62. agreed n/t

[Right Makes Might]

20. Question is: What's the motive?

Is it revenge? The answer would be no outing.

Is it exposure? The answer would be yes outing. Exposure of the hypocrisy of people who are gay who spout "moralistic" BS for political reasons. Out them.

[mondo joe]

48. To expose hypocrisy.

[kiahzero]

57. Public policy outcome

I believe it's been shown that outted anti-gay politicians tend to change their stances. Plus, as I say above, it makes it in their best interest to fight for the civil rights they should have been fighting for all along.

[DemWitch]

23. out 'em all

As a gay man I definatly feel if there are Administration Members who are gay and go along with Bush's anti-gay policies, then yes, they should be outed for the hypocrites they are... just like in the impeachment debacle... if you're going to fling dog shit at someone, better make sure your own yard is clean first...

[Wind Dancer]

43. Welcome to DU, DemWitch!

:hi:

[calimary]

54. Welcome to DU! And I must say I agree with you -

and everybody else here who's pointed out, accurately, that it's one thing to be gay and live a life of understanding and tolerance. It's another thing to be gay, or have a gay child or relative, and yet go out in public, pounding your chest and strutting your high-handed morality and painting yourself as an arbiter of what is sin and not sin, and be among the first to condemn other gays, or be actively trying to curtail the rights of gays as citizens, taxpayers, and fellow HUMAN BEINGS and creations of whatever Creator you believe in. Furthermore, many of these latter-day Pharisees are doing so, AS PURPORTED PUBLIC SERVANTS, PAID BY THE PUBLIC'S TAX MONEY, AND ENJOYING PERKS AND BENEFITS PAID FOR BY THE TAXPAYERS.

It IS hypocrisy. It deserves to be denounced in public, and those who purvey it far and wide should be exposed for the hypocrites they are. Seems like a public service to me. After all, they're nothing but liars, and as we learned from Clinton - you can be impeached for lies, correct?

Remember Bill Bennett? That self-proclaimed mullah of public morality and "national scold"? Turned out he's as big a vice meister as any of 'em with his gambling extravaganzas.

I have no sympathy for those who live in such big glass houses who choose to throw stones. If they do, they deserve what they get. It's fair game. Perhaps the only way to wipe out the "do as I say, not as I do" frauds is to present them with negative reinforcement. It might discourage a few others from being as judgmental or hypocritical as they are. Especially ON MY TAB as a tax payer!!!

[BillZBubb]

24. If they have any part whatsoever in Shrub's slime machine...

...out them! The hypocrisy and lies must be exposed.

[Monte Carlo]

25. Let'em have it.

Out every single one of those people. We don't have time to play pattycake, boys and girls.

[napi21]

26. I agree! Out 'em all!

If the Pubs hadn't made this such a big deal, I would sayhands off everyone, but that's not the case. I also don't think the staffersfall into the same catagory as, say, an employee of Enron, or WorldCom. As I understand it, staffers do most of the research and most of the recommendations to their boss. They are the "Quasi" eleted official. If they don't share the same ideals, they don't ( or shouldn't) have the job. That's akin to having a mistress and still telling your husband you love him.

[cap]

27. out them all...

it is probably true that the initial folks who are outed will pay dearly . However, public outrage at the effects of homophobia would lead to more tolerance.

Dont we all want gender orientation to be as innocuous a difference as hair color or eye color?

[Senior citizen]

30. The GOP, the KGB, and the CIA

have been known to use honeytraps. You entice someone into a compromising position, film it, and then blackmail them. Outing such people actually helps them, because it means they cannot be blackmailed any more. There are people who are doing things they hate, which harm other people, solely because they are afraid of losing their positions of power. But they were only given those positions of power once they had been fully compromised and were easy to control. If you don't think sex is dirty, and don't think it is more about power and control than about physical enjoyment, you're not a Republican.

[GoneOffShore]

32. Out them ...

if Roy Cohn and J. Edgar Hoover had been outed, it might well have minimized some of the excesses of the 50's.

[robertpaulsen]

34. "we wish that big homo George Bush would admit it already".

"Paging Victor Ashe! Victor Ashe, your pitcher is waiting to throw you a curveball!"

Actually, I don't know the truth of it. Maybe Bush is the catcher.

[Generator]

37. Damn right, out them

Sorry, they are working against themselves and their so called brothers and sisters.

Stand up and say, "Yes, I'm gay and I support and earn my paycheck from those that hate me. I support these polices and I am angry that someone dared to show the contradiction in my "lifestyle" and my job.

It ain't fair."

[dsc]

38. The problem with this

is that rights we take for ourselves are often taken by other people. I am sure those people are sincere in their beliefs that the Bush people are hypocrites. I actually even tend to agree that they are. But there are people on the other side that are equally sincere in their belief that a gay cop or a lesbian teacher is just as hypocritical and destructive to society. And those people will be more than willing to take on this right for themselves.

[Cheneys_former_heart]

39. I wish David Brock would out the gay repuke in the

impeachment case. In his book, he talked about a gay republican congressman who was one of the top dogs during the impeachment of Bill Clinton, and was always coming on to him. Never gave his name out, but I suspect that congressman is now a Senator.

[AntiCoup2K4]

44. I didn't think that one was much of a secret at all

Isn't LG about as "outed" as Drudge?

[carrowsboy]

52. Orrin Hatch

He's a weird ole leather queen!

This mo's opinion... OUT THEM ALL!!!!

[Tsiyu]

41. It's not enough

Don't forget that a HUGE portion of *'s base are rabid homophobes. How confused they will be at pictures of Assy or Cheney (or whoever's in line to be Outed) in pink panties! The Christians will be shocked and dismayed.
But that's not enough. I say we out the entire administration for everything - drugs, sex, crime. Anyone who knows anything should now come forth. Take no prisoners.
They obviously have enough on Matt Liar, Katie Kook and all the other media types to shut them up. Why should this administration have all the fun threatening to ruin people's lives? This is war, people. A war for your freedoms and your right to be who you are. So: show us who they really are and not who they claim to be!!!!!!!!!!!!

[geniph]

45. I don't think I could bring myself to go Linda Tripp on anyone

who'd confided in me...it's just a slimy thing to do, reveal someone else's secrets for political gain. Then again, I'm of two minds on this, because outing someone is only shameful if you accept that there's something shameful about being gay, which I do not. It's like outing someone for having green eyes. NO ONE SHOULD EVEN GIVE A SHIT. However, this being the real world, I will admit that all bets are off if I catch a rabid supposed homophobe like <shudder> Santorum or <double shudder> DeLay frequenting the local chicken ranch.

[Terran]

46. There's nothing wrong with outing

because there's nothing wrong with being homosexual. The only thing these people have to fear is the reaction from people with whom they have chosen to be ideologically aligned. See the difference there? They didn't choose to be gay or Lesbian, but they did choose to belong to a group of people who disapproves of being gay or Lesbian. Outing them is merely making these people live with their own decisions, not their sexuality.

[mondo joe]

47. I Pray They Out Every Last One of the Traitorous Hypocrites

I have ZERO problem with outing anyone involved in anti-gay legislation.

If someone was pushing anti-abortion legislation and it turned out they'd had a bunch of secret abortion it would be news.

I don't know why people think sexual orientation is a special secret that no one can reveal. If you treat it like a taboo it will always remain one.

[Zorra]

50. Only out the ones that have voted against gay issues or have

expressed anti-gay sentiments.

Expose someone only for being a hypocrite. Republicans that vote positively on gay issues, if there is such an animal, are an asset to gays.

[StayOutTheBushes]

51. George Bush isn't big.

[Deja Q]

58. Our country plays dirty. I have NO problems with people playing dirty...

if it ultimately means we regain or morals and ethics and play clean when civilization is restored.

Especially when these are public officials. Few had a problem outing Clinton's problem, so let's out the repuke homos. I am all for it. And, yes, I am a homo too. This is not a decision I make easily.

Out the hypocrites. It won't do a bit of good on this bill, but it'll do a lot of good for the future.

[Liberal Veteran]

61. Collaborators gets no sympathy from me.

And that is precisely what they are. They willfully assist a party that works to oppress them for what they are. Most hide behind cheap rationalizations that they are trying to change the party from within, but they blithely accept being ghettoized and ostracised by the same party.

I say let them suffer the fruits of their labors. See what happens when they try to co-exist with so many who openly despise them and compare them with child molestors and consider them mentally ill deviants.

I've been through this argument before and I know some are quite sincere in their defense of these people's privacy, but I find myself lacking that compunction. I will not allow people to profit on our values while seeking to undermine my own right life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

[librechik]

63. this is war;I haven't noticed the other side pulling their punches

Bill&MonicaScotRitterpornostingVinceFosterPaulaJones

I will be interested to see how this plays out--so to speak--it would be better for all if people quit keeping these secrets anyway. Not that there was anything to most of the smeariest RW puches.