"56 Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11"

[complain jane]

A Bush-supporter on another board posted this and he thinks it "points out lies" in Fahrenheit 9/11. I'm not pro-Bush and I think Fahrenheit 9/11 was great, but I thought this would be good to take a look at because it shows first of all how pathetic their argument is against F9/11 because this article doesn't disprove anything but also because it's a good idea to know what BS propaganda they're spreading.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

[DarkPhenyx]

1. "Know your enemy as you know yourself...

...and you will always be victorious." - Sun Tzu

[newsguyatl]

2. goddamn, i get so fucking sick

of people on here posting rightwing talking points, views, and overall tripe... it gets so old.

[Lefty48197]

4. I agree

what a bunch of crap. *Some* people really need to get lives.

[Democat]

3. Dupe - there is a long DU thread from July 3rd about this - here is a link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1918540

[yankeedem]

5. Oh, so easy to debunk

Point 40
"Moore’s pro-Saddam allegation that Saddam “never threatened to attack the United States” is true in the narrow sense that Saddam never gave a speech in which he threatened to, for example, send the Iraqi navy and army to conduct an amphibious invasion of Florida. But although Saddam never threatened the territorial integrity of America, he repeatedly threatened Americans. For example, on November 15, 1997, the main propaganda organ for the Saddam regime, the newspaper Babel (which was run by Saddam Hussein's son Uday) ordered: "American and British interests, embassies, and naval ships in the Arab region should be the targets of military operations and commando attacks by Arab political forces." (Stephen Hayes, The Connection: How al Qaeda's Collaboration with Saddam Hussein has Endangered America (N.Y.: HarperCollins, 2004), p. 94.)"

Sorry, not a threat. On the other hand, the US threatened, and attacked the Iraqis throughout the Clinton administration with air campaigns and in the Iraq "war"


"Moreover, Saddam did not need to make verbal threats in order to “threaten” the United States. He threatened the United States by giving refuges to terrorists who had murdered Americans, and by funding terrorists who were killing Americans in Israel. Saddam gave refuge to terrorists who had attacked the United States by bombing the World Trade Center. In addition: "

So, he didn't need to threaten to threaten. Gotcha. Using the same freeper logic, Saudi Arabia threatens the US everyday with their harboring and sponsorship of terrorists.


"In 1991, a large number of Western hostages were taken by the hideous Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and held in terrible conditions for a long time. After that same invasion was repelled—Saddam having killed quite a few Americans and Egyptians and Syrians and Brits in the meantime and having threatened to kill many more…"

"….Iraqi forces fired, every day, for 10 years, on the aircraft that patrolled the no-fly zones and staved off further genocide in the north and south of the country. In 1993, a certain Mr. Yasin helped mix the chemicals for the bomb at the World Trade Center and then skipped to Iraq, where he remained a guest of the state until the overthrow of Saddam….On Dec. 1, 2003, the New York Times reported—and the David Kay report had established—that Saddam had been secretly negotiating with the “Dear Leader” Kim Jong-il in a series of secret meetings in Syria, as late as the spring of 2003, to buy a North Korean missile system, and missile-production system, right off the shelf. (This attempt was not uncovered until after the fall of Baghdad, the coalition’s presence having meanwhile put an end to the negotiations.)"

Ok, so let's slow down. Iraq wants WMD's, which they will purchase from North Korea. Wouldn't it then be more prudent to attack North Korea? I mean if the goal IS to eradicate threats from "people like Saddam with WMD's?

Hitchens, Slate. The cited article is David E. Sanger & Thom Shanker, "A Region Inflamed: Weapons. For the Iraqis, a Missile Deal That Went Sour; Files Tell of Talks With North Korea, New York Times, Dec. 1, 2003."

Quoting Hitchens, the famous truth teller.

"As French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin stated on November 12, 2002, "The security of the United States is under threat from people like Saddam Hussein who are capable of using chemical and biological weapons." (Hayes, p. 21.) De Villepin's point is indisputable: Saddam was the kind of person who was capable of using chemical weapons, since he had actually used them against Iraqis who resisted his tyrannical regime. As de Villepin spoke, Saddam was sheltering terrorists who had murdered Americans, and was subsidizing the murder of Americans (and many other nationalities) in Israel."


OK, let me figure this out. People who are capable of using WMD's are a threat to America. Saddam has WMD's. Therefore he is a threat to America. We're good so far. Except, there are no WMD's. If Saddam doesn't have WMD's, is he still a threat to America?

[ArtieBoy]

6. Indeed, that is lame.

I can't believe how desperate they are to make a case. On the other hand these are the people who spent $20 million to prosecute a blow job.

He counts using crowd reactions shots and not actual shots of the buildings falling as a "deceit?" He says, "Michael Moore thinks Bush sitting in the classroom was foolish, but he does not tell you the principal of that school thought it was wonderful!" and counts that as a deceit.

I understand one of those congressmen's ties was actually blue, but due to the clever maladjusment of Moore's camera lense it appears as more of a deep purple. I better e-mail that one to that guy.

[yankeedem]

7. $80 Million for a BJ

The principal thing is especially interesting. So what they are saying is that to hell with the free world, since the principal was happy with his actions, he gets a pass?

If the school was targeted as the president visited (and there is some evidence it was- there are stories of a camera crew being turned away at the hotel, some feel that they were terrorists and part of the plot, would the principal be so kind?

[against all enemies]

8. More bullshit about Moore.

These guys suck so much ass, it must be required for pukes.

[liberalmuse]

9. I came across this BS the other day.

I started reading it, but it was making my head spin so I stopped. You simply can't debate the right wing because reality and logic have no meaning in their world. 2+2=5 with these fucks.

[trotsky]

10. 90% of the "deceits"

are simply what Moore says his film is about: SHOWING THE OTHER SIDE. You know, the side of coverage that our pro-war cheerleader media neglected to show us.

It counts as a "deceit" when we finally get to SEE Bush sitting there, doing nothing, while the WTC is in flames.

And it counts as a "deceit" when Moore shows that not every Iraqi was living in fear under an oppressive dictator, as our media and misadministration insisted.

A documentary doesn't have to be "fair and balanced," and in fact as Roger Ebert said, the best ones never are.

The other 10% come from discredited sources like the bogus Isikoff article.

Nice try, very lengthy and wordy so as to discourage any rebuttals!

[xray s]

11. we need a "56 deceits of Bush/Cheney's Iraq War" list

Oh wait...56 would only just begin to scratch the surface.

[complain jane]

14. That's for sure. We should do it anyway n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. Old story. Debunked. Next.

[bagnana]

13. how any person could watch Bush's face on 9/11

and think he was making a calculated decision to "remain calm" in order not to alarm the kids in that class, is demented. He was so obviously clueless and terrified -- in fact that was terrifying to watch: the leader of the free world sitting there like a dunce. Really, he was shaken up. Why can't they just admit it and say "well I would have been shaken up too and look at how he reacted later after he had some time to collect his thoughts and consult with his people?" That would have been believable. This crap about him not jumping up and running out of the room is a 9th grade debate tactic and is just pathetic.

[ThoughtCriminal]

15. Part of the fun has been watching the shift

Up until recently, most right wingers denied that it was true, claiming Bush immediately left the classroom (Liberal media lie I was told). I just loved posting the link to the video and watch them vanish from the discussion.

Now they say that doing nothing was the appropriate action.

There are not enough drugs on the planet I could take and be convinced that this is the way an effective "Leader" would respond to a crisis of this magnitude. True Believers are amazing aren't they?

[Hailtothechimp]

16. These "56 deceits" means they don't have to address hundreds of truths.

At least not in their own feeble minds.