OH MY GOD...THEY ARE SETTING UP THE POStPONING or canceling

[greenbriar]

of the election.


the pukes

[jay-3d]

1. what?

[meegbear]

4. I think the poster means "postponing"

[LittleApple81]

2. Postponing, is what you want isn't it? Yeah, I noticed the question

during Ridges "press conference."

[greenbriar]

5. it just hit me

after they started talking about the conventions and the elections based on overseas.

[Mandate My Ass]

3. That's what I think too

They're very transparent and very desperate.

[Individualist]

6. Postponing

- or cancelling? My guess is the latter.

[checks-n-balances]

7. Postponing the election - you mean by bringing out the terror alerts?

Please elaborate.

[greenbriar]

9. ridge said something to the effect

of looking into the constitution to see the feasibility

[Ripley]

12. That makes absolutely no sense...

Voting happens in thousands of places all over...what would the target be? How can a terrorist inflict damage with high body count by hitting voting booths?

There is no reason for this...people better start getting fired up to fight back these thugs!

[Mandate My Ass]

If it was biological

they could justify by saying people congregating at the polls would spread contagion.

[nayt]

84. off topic but

why doesn't your post have a number?

[Mandate My Ass]

141. dunno

I've seen this happen from time to time and have meant to ask the admins how it happens but never did. :shrug:

[JHB]

40. They (wrongly) point to the Spanish example, and 9/11

9/11 occured on an election day (primary for Dem candidates for NYC mayor, among other things), but it was postponed due to the scale of the emergency.

They also point to the 3/11 train bombings in Spain, since they happened close to the election and "affected" them (an argument which ignores the fact that the government then in charge was unpopular precisely for going along with Bush, and that they self-servingly initially blamed the attacks on Basque separatists -- a fact which appears to have been a major factor in the opposition's victory).

They also ignore that we've been through worse, without postponing the election.

[Neecy]

65. really?

How *nice* of Tom to check the Constitution for us...and as we all know, if there's any question as to interpreting the document, it goes up to the Supreme Court. Of course, they'll give us a fair and impartial ruling on whether or not the Constitution allows for the delay/cancellation of a federal election.

Pffft.

[Helios]

Well it is certainly allowed per the constitution

but NOT for executive branch members. I don't see how you could possibly interpret it that way.

I actually would HOPE congress reschedules if something major happens before the regular election date. The media has ingrained the message that if something happens, you vote against bush, the terrorists win.

That was the "message" with spain. The terrorists "won" because they allowed the more liberal anti-iraq and less friendly with bush government in.

People would need time to regain there senses. It's proven fact that in times of stress or feeling of emergency people do NOT act rationally. They go for the most "patriotic" rally round the president logic which would almost certainly mean a bush win if the main stream media handled its propaganda correctly....

[Joanne98]

92. That bastard

They're not getting away with this. WHERE are the Democrats????????

[sandraj]

168. Okay, Tom

If you're so concerned, how about we hold the elections SOONER rather than later? (Like next week? :))

Wouldn't that make more sense? If these shadowy terrorists are only in the planning stages of an attack, they won't have time to complete their plans if the elections are moved UP instead of BACK.

[mermaid]

175. Yeah, Why Not??

After all, we handled the "transfer of power" (what a fucking joke) to Iraq...early...so why not have our elections early, too?

[Dover]

178. Yeah, they did it in Iraq for the gov. turnover. But of course no one

had to go to the polls.

[checks-n-balances]

11. Never mind - thanks for the addidional thoughts.

eom

[greenbriar]

15. just listening to CNN

and the questions being asked and someone asked about postponing the elections and ridge said they were looking into the legalities and the constitution

[Pathwalker]

51. Pete Williams(Bush1's State Dept. spokesman) ASKED!!!!

Coincidence? I think NOT!

[Sharpodotcom]

23. FEAR

I fear that there will be a terror attack. Martial law will be declared - the media shut down - Any dissent squashed. I fear that. I feal terrorised. The terrorists have me paralised with fear. I fear that soon no one will dare what Michael Moore has dared to do. I know the terrorists have names. The ones who frighten and terrorize are very powerful. When the media black out comes (Or has it already) how will we know?
I am searching for the courage and wishing for peace.

[catzies]

63. Welcome to DU, and your lst paragraph is worthy of discussion

:hi:

There doesn't even have to be a real terror attack, you know; all they have to say is there MIGHT be one.

Peace to you, too. Fight back the fear.

[Pachamama]

76. Yes, the Terrorists have me numb w/ fear too...especially since they are

...occupying the White House...

Send peace and loving energy to the world, dream what you'd like it be and go out and create it and work hard between now and Nov 2nd to educate and encourage everyone to vote and learn the facts first...

Oh, and welcome to the DU...always nice to have freethinking newbies join the party :hi:

[jukes]

157. Sharpodotcom

welcome to DU. :hi:


& yes, lots of scary stuff going on.

[Pallas180]

161. Don't be silly, the terrorists names are Bush, Cheney Ridge

and the house of representatives.

Isn't it funny that all this is announced when Kerry chooses Edwards
and within two days they are drawing crowds of 18,000 people when 2000
are expected. I don't think it's a coincidence

Get ready to fight back by demanding the voting go on.Call every lousy
house of representatives and tell them you willnot stand for a delay
of the voting. And if they try it you will never vote for a republican
again and that you will post to every one and every state "DONT VOTE
THAT REPBULICAN BASTARD IN EVER AGAIN."

Get ready to BOYCOTT. Don;t fly,dont use buses, dont spend money.

stock up on food and gas, and don;t buy anything.

If enough people have the guts not to go to work, and not to spend money they will bring this country to a standstill.

And for those who like protests, 2 3 4 5 million people blocking every road in Washington DC by just sitting down in protest and getting labor unions to send truckers with big rigs to block highways when they get flat tires or run out of gas would send a might message
to bushco that the American people are not going to stand for this bull.

They're going to sit down.

Gandhi, Martin Luther King, good examples of winners.

[ibegurpard]

8. This can't be allowed to happen

start writing letters to the editor, news organizations, etc. saying that if we allow fear to threaten the basis of what makes this country supposedly free then we may as well pack it in because we have no freedom to defend.

[KittyWampus]

10. Started Right After Spanish Election

some whore in the NYTimes mentioned those crazy Spanish and how they shouldn't have held that vote after such a catastrophe.

[kayell]

13. Who was the group that petitioned Kofi Anaan to have the UN

monitor the US elections? Any luck on that?

Yeah, I know, dream on....



Damn, it is so incredibly obvious, yet 9 out of 10 people will tell you you're completely nuts to think something like this could possibly happen in our great democratic country.

[Kanary]

20. the group was 144 congresscritters

But, it better be US, the citizenry, who are ready to take to the streets at any hint they intend to go through with a "postponement".

Kanary

[kayell]

35. Thank you, sometimes I suffer memory leaks nt

[Solly Mack]

14. Ridge called it the "Post-Madrid environment"

and said Al kI-Eeda (my husband came home from Iraq pronouncing it that way) would attack America to interrupt the democratic process.

[TWiley]

50. The "Post-Madrid Environment" is more republican propaganda

I do not believe the conservative take on the recent election in Spain. Most voters were pissed at their government for getting involved in a war by supporting a country who had just thumbed its nose at the U.N.

They put this stupid spin on the simple fact that the conservatives were going to loose big anyway.

The frightening part is this:

Bush stopped at nothing to get his war.
He will stop at nothing to win this election.

The conservatives have a history of inflicting a bloody attack, and then blaming it on the group they really want to declare war on.

There are, perhaps, hundreds of examples of this during the "Indian" wars alone.

A postponement cannot be allowed for the simple reason that it would provide a motive for bushco to stage another "anthrax" type (or worse) of attack on our country.

[Solly Mack]

well, yes, it is propaganda...I think we all know that

and it is their talking point which amounts to "a vote for kerry is a vote for terrorism"

[GCP]

71. For example the attack on Czechoslovakia by Hitler

in 1938. He had German troopers dressed as Czechs "attacking" a German border post, then told the German people that they'd been attacked, and they had to invade.

Bob's your Uncle- the start of the festivities known as WWII.

[TWiley]

153. How about the "Boston Tea Party?"

This example is a bit older than our country.

"Anthrax attacks" is part of our Heritage as well. We traded infected blankets to the native Americans and killed off plenty of humans.

I do believe that bushco has it in em to stage something. Examining the case for war in Iraq, they have retreated into the notion of "the end justifies the means" by changing the original issue into one concerning Saddam's poor character.

Completely ignoring the Geneva Convention, and the torture of prisioners in Iraq are further clues into the "character" of our current government.

[TrustingDog]

89. Makes you wonder who really did Madrid....

...if this is what the felons are basing their 'decision' on.

[Skip Intro]

115. Some of us were wondering that at the time

The counter argument was, "what does bushco have to gain from the Madrid bombing?"

Four months later, the answer begins to become apparent.

[TrustingDog]

123. you've probably seen this.... joe vialls on Madrid...

interesting, to say the least.

http://www.joevialls.co.uk/

scroll down to:
Madrid 'Terror Suspects' Did NOT Commit Suicide

(for some reason I can't get a url on individual stories, reverts to the home page)

[geek tragedy]

125. Why are linking to that repulsive piece of dogshit?

Vialls is a Grade A bigot. I thought linking to his site was forbidden.

[TrustingDog]

126. I didn't know it's forbidden....

why?
some whacky ideas, but interesting reading nonetheless.
by bigoted, I am supposing you are referring to his special dislike of zionists?

[geek tragedy]

127. I mean his special dislike of JEWS

http://joevialls.altermedia.info/kosher.html

<snip>
No matter whether Anglican, Lutheran, Roman Catholic or other, most share the general view that Jesus Christ died in terrible agony to save them all, and most American Christians harbor a significant grudge against the Jewish priests who frantically urged the Roman soldiers to nail their Savior to the cross.
This is simply the way America is, and woe betide any Jew unwise enough to suggest that the young Jesus Christ "had it coming to him". Since America was first founded, the undercurrent of distrust and even hatred has been so strong that many Jews have gone underground. But though they change their names and publicly deny their religion, most Jews still study the Babylonian Talmud, still hold secret Bar Mitzvahs in dark Boston cellars, and still despise Christians, who the Talmud states are merely sub-human animals, to be killed at leisure. Members of this American Zionist fifth column, are what Joel Kotkin of the Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles calls "Marranos", or "hidden closeted Jews".
<snip>

[TrustingDog]

130. yah, that jew bashing is really stupid of him, I agree.

Here he makes the mistake of switching 'Jew' with 'Zionist' willy nilly.

[geek tragedy]

132. Mistake?

He hates Jews. It's just that simple. He's a bigot. He's been banned from PayPal, Rumor Mill News, and even RENSE, which defends Holocaust deniers.

[TrustingDog]

136. I'll leave it at this...

I never got the impression that he 'hates all Jews' - but he sure has a big mad on for zionist control in government and media - which we all should take some note of.

[geek tragedy]

139. Well, then, you are simply in denial and refusing to acknowledge reality

http://www.geocities.com/passoverjewbilee/coup.html

<snip>
Then apparently out of nowhere came a string of events that stiffened American resolve. For about two weeks, the media was obliged to show Jews operating in their natural environment. The atrocities perpetrated in Jenin refugee camp finally exposed what the lobbies and media had managed to suppress for decades: that Jews in general are not likeable charitable folk who suffered terribly in “the holocaust”.
Instead, Jews were finally seen by vast numbers of Americans as a bunch of bigoted and crazed religious fanatics, with an extremely high appetite for murder and torture of every kind. Appalled and disgusted by this, someone somewhere then triggered a chain of events which would eventually set the record straight, and finally break the Jewish stranglehold on the United States of America.
<snip>

If a person can't see bigotry in filth like this, then I humbly suggest that such a person must have their Jewish issues.

[Pallas180]

162. Cheezu. Barmitzvahs in Boston cellars? closet Irish Jews?-this guys nuts

where does he hide his white sheet?

[TWiley]

154. It is possible that Al Queda did it, but

it is most likely true that the conservatives would have lost the election anyway.

[thecrow]

151. In Spain

the voters were REAL pissed that the government officials were trying to blame the Basques (?) movement for the bombings.
:mad:

[redwitch]

16. The US would have to be totally demoralized to allow it

People would have to be so terrified they couldn't function. And then they would be PISSED and out in the streets in such numbers it would be staggering.

[Individualist]

24. People who are afraid

are easy to control. I was glad to see Michael Moore brought this up in F 9/11 when discussing the bogus terror alerts.

[ibegurpard]

25. Don't count on it.

This needs to be stomped down hard NOW so that when it happens people will say "Hey, wait a minute..."

[TWiley]

155. But that would serve the same end wouldn't it?

Bush would love a civil war so he could declare martial law. Elections are automatically suspended during those times I believe.

[Sterling]

165. Civil WAR? No just civil action.

Think of millions doing what the Russians did to defend Yeltsin and Gorby. There are plenty of ways to stop this kind of thing without bloodshed. Maybe there will be open conflict but it need not be that way.

Whatever the outcome I won't be taking it this time, period.

[TWiley]

191. I feel the same way.

I have had enough republican-shit on my plate for a lifetime.

[shaolinmonkey]

17. I thought we were strong, unflinching Americans.

Why would we postpone our elections? Wouldn't that be "letting the terrorists win"? Why would we re-elect a president who has allowed two attacks to occur on American soil. Fuck these lying motherfuckers.

[Kazak]

18. Yep...

They're gonna give it a shot. The idiots...

[greenbriar]

19. they can go cheney themselves

god I hate them even more today than yesterday

[devinsgram]

44. Could not have said that any better.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. Makes perfect sense when you think about what they've done

There are plenty of private military in America but the national guard and our own troops are spread around Iraq...the hired guns DON'T have the loyalty to the US constitution that US troops do...so don't count on them to stand up for us.

[tom_paine]

22. Of course they are. If they do, it will be signal for

(COMMENT REDACTED BY ORDER OF THE OHS)

I don't advise them to try.

[greenbriar]

28. we need to keep this kicked

:kick:

[Hubert Flottz]

26. Yup the Terra-ists are planning to leave Bush in Office!

But I wonder which Terra-ists? Texas Taliban?

[Walt Starr]

27. Buy guns now

Canceling the election is grounds for revolution. Plain and simple, if they di it, it's an illegal coup and requires avery patriotic American to stand up and fight!

[jay-3d]

30. true

the constitution does call for revolution in these kind of situations.

[Dhalgren]

45. Absolutely right!

Stock up on weapons and ammo now, because after the takeover it will be too late. If this shit goes down like I am afraid it will, it is going to be one bloody Thanksgiving.

[Joanne98]

105. The fore-fathers warned of this.

They said it was bound to happen. They said when it did it was the American people's duty to pick up arms and take the country back by force. This is why I've always been against gun-control. Dis-arming yourself when you have selfish greedy evil fascists in control of your country is just plain STUPID.

[Cronus Protagonist]

148. Buying guns solves nothing

However, you are still free to do it, despite their uselessness in the face of a government with the weaponry that the US has to bring to bear against your pop guns.

And you're right that they will ban them soon enough - in the name of "terrorism".

However, I think it would be more appropriate to start stockpiling food and water.

Choose Kerry Lose Bush - FUCK BUSH - Drop Bush Not Bombs!
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[Walt Starr]

150. I've stockpiled food and water since

December 12, 2000.

Same day I started paying cash for all book purchases, too.

[Cronus Protagonist]

173. I too have my stocks built up

I have fruit juice and cans of food stacked high in the garage for easy retrieval - right beside the machete and the flashlight.

Choose Kerry Lose Bush - FUCK BUSH - Drop Bush Not Bombs!
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[Occulus]

182. People who live in apartments are screwed. n/t

[Sterling]

166. The Iraqi's are doing well with what they have?

I used to think the government could squash an open rebellion, since Iraq I no longer see it that way at all.


They could kill a lot of us but there is no way they could hold it together in the face of widespread rebellion.

[Cronus Protagonist]

172. You know, that's a good point.

I dont think guns are worth anbything against the government - look at Palestine and Fallujia, but they might be needed if the system of government loses legitimacy and you have to fend off people trying to steal your water or food.

Might be a case for owning as gun then, but if it comes to that, I'll steal one.

Choose Kerry Lose Bush - FUCK BUSH - Drop Bush Not Bombs!
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[uncle ray]

180. you'll be trying to steal a gun, while the man with the gun

steals your food!

if * wins the election, waste no time, as soon as the fix is in, offer to buy guns from freeper types, they are still worried shitless that the dems will take their guns away. if the election goes to * they'll think they're in the clear, but you gotta act fast before the revolution starts and they wise up!

[Doctor Ray]

193. To the Democratic Underground, from the Anarchists:

Start stockpilin'.

You want a violent overthrow following the postponement of the election, let's do it.

[kayell]

29. Dupe

oops, don't know how that happened

[Ganja Ninja]

31. Here's my theory on how the GOP will win by postponing the vote.

I expect the terror threats to be specific and in key states that are likely to go to Kerry/Edwards. They will postpone voting in some areas while in other areas the vote will go on. When the time comes to certify the voting for say California and/or New York it won't happen and the electoral votes from those states won't count. Bush will "win" in another controversial election.

[greenbriar]

34. gotta sticky this thread...it is important

:kick:

[Helios]

86. I don't see how that would work out

The popular vote (under the constitution) is irrelevant. Who the electors vote for is STILL ultimately in the hands of every state legislature if they (the members of the legislature) choose to directly assume that power.

The states you mention have heavily democratic legislatures. IF the popular vote was suspended those states could easily pass their own legislation declaring kerry/edwards electors for their states.

Secondly - the voting certification will be delayed as well if those states did not act in that manner. Why? One member from the house and another from the senate (dare I say a lot more than one - ALL democrats and even the handful of ethical republicans) will object to the certification on the grounds all state electors have not yet voted.

[Ganja Ninja]

99. They only need to delay the process long enough ....

to throw the vote into congress. Then a Republican controled congress can put the chimp back in for another term.

[cmf]

32. I don't think they want to pospone

Because they know that the American public will do the opposite of Spain. Electing Kerry would be "letting the terrorists win".

[Solly Mack]

37. That is the talking point now

In the "Post-Madrid environment" America finds herself...blah blah blah...according to Ridge.

[ibegurpard]

53. Doesn't matter.

This trial balloon CANNOT be allowed to float. People should NEVER be allowed to become comfortable with the idea of elections being cancelled.

[Solly Mack]

55. but the same people who embrace the loss of civil rights (Patriot Act)

will have NO problem cancelling an election.

I agree we can't allow people to become comfortable with the thought....but I fear they already are..

[Helios]

94. I think they think that way too

I don't think they would WANT to postpone after anything happened, as it would be a sure bush win if the media message has gotten through. The media has been working to ingrain kerry win = terrorist win.

A delay would weaken that possibility.

[Danieljay]

33. terrorists wouldn't strike knowing it might keep Bush in office...

Why would terrorists want to interupt the election? They hate Bush and want him out of office. I'm hoping after enough people see Farenheit 911 and how this administration is playing politics using the fear of terrorism that the American people will see this for what it really is...Diversion. Kerry picks a great VP, Ken Lay is arrested....time for a terror alert.

Americans, Fool em once...shame on..?? Fool em...uhhhh, they won't be fooled again!!

[unfrigginreal]

47. You must be kidding

The "terrorists" know that with Bush in office they'll have a much better shot at recruiting. They love the fact that the mad cowboy is "in charge."

[Danieljay]

74. I understand your point..and agree at some level..but

I still believe that its bad foriegn policy that provides the fuel that create the terrorists in the first place. This administration is all about bad foriegn policy. Terrorists attacks have doubled in the past year since this so called "war on terrorism". Had it not been for Bush attacking a practically un-armed oil rich Arab country there would be less reason to recruit more terrorists. You and I both know Iraq had nothing to do with 911 or Al Queda. Bush's failure to pursue Bin laden and the Saudi terrorist connection gives insight to his true motivations.

I have NO sympathy for terrorism or terrorists. That being said, I do have sympathy for the people that have become victims of our foreign policy that has often been driven by corporate greed. Bush attacking a practically unarmed soveirgn nation (albeit with a violent, cruel dictator) created more terrorists and more terrorism. Despite what Bush claims, the world is less safe than it was before.

Violence (apart perhaps from self defense) is never the solution to any problem. The question is rarely asked "just what has hurt you so bad that you feel you have to hurt us to get your point across?" Terrorism is wrong in all its forms, whether it be bombing buses, embassys, and world trade centers, or invading foriegn countries on a foundation of lies resulting in the deaths of not only our good men and women in uniform but the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent civilians caught in the middle of a war driven by politics, corporate greed, and ignorance.

Thanks for the response!

[Taverner]

138. Keep in Mind Al Queda issued a PR saying they want Bush to win

Surprised that isnt a banner - OSAMA FOR BUSH!!!!!

[Danieljay]

160. wow, I hadn't heard that.... n/t

[Helios]

98. Nope

they like bush. They know that if they can't destroy the country he will do it for them.

Further, not only has he failed in any real "war on terra" he has actually HELPED them. More than likely he has created a whole new generation of people that hate the united states in iraq (read: children who now have dead parents/friends/other family). Talk about a recruitment increase.

[Joanne98]

111. You got to be kidding

The terrorists love Bush. OBL probably has a Bush/Cheney bumper sticker on his camel. Mr "uniter not a divider" has united the entire planet against us. Not to mention what an excellent recruiting tool for Al-Quaida Bush has been. Bin Laden couldn't be more pleased, I'm sure.

[thecrow]

152. Bush contends to be a Christian

and for that reason the terrorists have been recruiting better than ever because for them, it's a Christian vs Islamc fight.
So, they want Bush to win.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. been screaming this for months "the only way bush* can win 'cancel ..

the elections' by doing another terrorist attack on US soil"

desperate people do desperater things...it is the neocons and bush* ONLY way to keep power :scared:

[greenbriar]

39. sadly, I hoped better for my country

but now I know I can not Trust my country

[donhakman]

42. Nothing like a little made in USA anthrax to do the trick

Just in case you didn;t know the FBI confirmed the anthrax letters were made from US military anthrax supplies.
Then the story died.

[Ganja Ninja]

57. I've always thought Bush was behind it.

It was the perfect ploy to drum up support for war with Iraq. Then 9/11 happened and threw a wrench into plan for world domination.

It's just one more suspicious occurrence that will need investigating when the Bush junta is removed from power.

[Sterling]

167. WTF are you talking about?

Then 9/11 happened and threw a wrench into plan for world domination."

BULL_SHIT. (-11 set the plan in motion. Read the PNAC please.

The anthrax was a follow up to keep Dems and the media zipped up.

[luaneryder]

38. If they're so afraid of a disruption

then cancel the conventions; we all know who the candidates are. Move up the election; they moved up the handover in Iraq. Let's vote this month, or next month, and quickly install the Kerry-Edwards team.

edited for noun usage

[greenbriar]

46. that is an excellent idea

lets vote Monday!!!

[tandot]

41. I am so tired of that bullshit. They can't scare us into voting for that

incompetent asshole.

Why is nobody doing anything about those crooks. These fascists are using Nazi tactics to gain total control of the country.

Isn't it funny that the day that Kerry/Edwards seem to be way ahead of Bush/Cheney, they give terrorist warnings and are talking about postponing the election.

F*cking Fascists. Try them for treason!

[markses]

43. Don't forget that 9/11 happened on an election day (primaries) in NYC

The primry election was postponed. Precedent, see?

[greenbriar]

48. man I am soooooooooo pissed

we gotta keep this from happening.


can someone write a blanket letter to the editor we can all send? I am so mad, I can't type write

[greenbriar]

52. please

:kick:

[senseandsensibility]

78. I did notice

that someone asked William Pitt to write an article about this in another thread today. He would be the perfect person to write a letter like that. He has a great grasp of history, and could illustrate how truly horrific this concept is. Let's recruit Will!!!:scared: Let's use fear as a motivator!

140. write your own letter

this is the kind of thing where each citizen can write their own letter. Don't wait for Will.
Use your own words. Trust your own voice.
You don't need to know about history to know that it is wrong to cancel elections.
Talk from your heart.

[GiovanniC]

143. Post 113 on This Thread

n/t

[BeatleBoot]

49. Here's A Link

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/politics/9014105.htm

<snip>
"Look at the possibilities. If the federal government were to cancel an election or suspend an election, it has tremendous political implications. If the federal government chose not to suspend an election it has political implications," said Soaries, a Republican and former secretary of state of New Jersey.

<more at link>

[Cogito ergo doleo]

54. Doesn't make sense

to postpone - like the terror threat would diminish between the postponed election and the new revised date?

We could have the election if absentee ballots were sent out to everyone. That may be better all the way around because that way we'd have paper, too.

[Helios]

100. That's actually a good idea

as far as paper ballots go... Hmm I wonder if there could be some dem organiztion and get everyone to send in absentee ballots? Then there would be a paper trail...

[LeftHander]

56. People Need to Take over if Elections cancelled....

Period.

If elections are cancelled. The people will go ahead with them.

Contact local election officials and local governments to not abide by any ruling by Homeland Security attempting to cancel elections.

Local elections still slated will still occur and presidential and federal elections MUST continue!

Democracy WILL NOT BE STOPPED by terror, BUsh or ANYONE!!

[jackstraw45]

58. Civil War?

Watching Ken Burn's Civil War series this summer and I must say that this nation is about as divided as it's ever been.

If Bushco steals another one...watch out!

[Shopaholic]

122. My Mom actually asked me today if we needed to start making

contingency plans in case * wins in November--to move to another country!

[joanne]

59. Bump

:kick:

[greenbriar]

60. bumpity bump bump bump

:kick:

[Pallas180]

171. No. 56 Lefthander - that's a good idea. people hold elections anyway

flesh that out some more.

start a new thread with the plan.

We need to start preparing.

[flordehinojos]

push the fear factor to cancel/steal an election

push the fear factor to cancel/steal another election and make it look all the more real by having congress rubber stamp the canceling or postponing of the elections... and congress, which rubber stamped the pre-emptive attack on Iraq seems all poised to rubber stamp this latest bush SMOKE AND SCREAM act...the second Bush Reichstag is upon us!!!:nuke:

[young_at_heart]

61. What you are suggesting is downright scary!

The word "trust" has been completely suspended with these stop-at-nothing people!

[dryan]

62. Is Bush that stupid?

[greenbriar]

67. it is NO suggestion...it is happening right now

they are actually coming out and saying it now

[Beware the Beast Man]

64. Ain't gonna happen

I think a number of people will finally put 2 and 2 together regarding the use (or abuse) of the terror alert system if they decide to postpone the elections. More than likely this is understood by the admin. It's too risky for them to pull some crap like that.

[ibegurpard]

68. Again, it doesn't matter

We need to make a stink about this until the answer to the question "Do you have any plans in place to cancel or postpone elections in the case of a terror strike?" is "We will NEVER cancel or postpone elections in that case because to do so would mean that we have already lost the freedom that we say they hate us for."

[salib]

66. A Democracy or Republic VOTES No Matter What!

It is the very operational definition of a republic (democratic institution) that it hold regular, well-run and well defined elections.

Historical Examples:

1812: USA votes during war with Great Britain. This was the war where the Capitol and President's residence (as well as much of Washington, D.C.) were burned to the ground by the British! (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election%2C_1812).

1864: USA votes during Civil War. 'nuf said, I think. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election%2C_1864)

1944: USA votes during WWII.

1952: USA votes during Korean War.

1968 and 1972: USA votes during Vietnam War.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

69. chenney that, this is the U.S. we have a rep. democracy, we vote!

i will not stand for a cancelation or postponement, people will take to the streets, we will not stand for this.

[Walt Starr]

70. An election was held, ON SCHEDULE, during the Civil War

That point needs to be pressed constantly with these fucks!

[apnu]

73. Yeah this is all BS

If this nation can hold and successfully pull off an election during CIVIL WAR (which is still the reigning champion of American deaths) then we can have elections in the face of terrorism. (not to mention WW2 and Viet Nam, just backing you up Walt...)

There is a precedent of elections during a "war" and that precedent says that the show must go on!

Notice how the language has changed from "war on terror" to "terrorist threat" as we've gotten closer to November. They have to change "the war" into "the threat" because people will bring this information up.

Assholes!

[faithnotgreed]

97. great point. include this information if anyone contacts media

[NNN0LHI]

121. If they try and cancel the elections there will be another Civil War n/t

[Tsiyu]

72. Don't Be Afraid

Whether you are the progeny of the folks aboard the Mayflower or you are a recent immigrant, it IS NOT in your DNA to accept the takeover of our government. Don't the Bushy's understand this?

People will be quiet for a small while, but when reality sets in you will see a righteous indignation unlike any the world has ever seen. It will be over my dead body that these criminals hijack my once great nation.

As I said in an earlier post, the most dangerous time for an abuse victim is when they attempt to leave the abuser. Bush & Co have abused this nation for years. They are now extrememly frightened themselves. Not because they fear retribution ( they don't deserve any in their minds) but because they are terrified of losing control over others. Look for the actions of the panicked right to multiply. Look for them to try to scare you, intimidate you, silence you.

And like the great men and women who once fought this same battle against another King George, screw up your courage for your childrens' sake and fight for your nation. The Constitution is your birthright, not some rag they can rip to shreds. FIGHT FOR IT at the polls, in your local papers and wherever else you can.

[Joanne98]

116. Good analogy

The wife beater..... Fear is the enemy. If they can't scare us they can't win. We need to go on the offense starting right now. Turn the "fear" table on them. God I wish the American people would wake up.

[nolabels]

128. We won't need directions, just follow the arrows on where go kicking

http://www.taylor.org/~argus/all/travel/ciudad_juarez/gilaweekend/el_butte/

[Tight_rope]

185. Kick....Well said! n/t

[Helios]

75. I would see nothing wrong with congress

rescheduling an election to a later date, as they have the clear delegated power to do so and always have.

Keep in mind though there is difference between a rescheduling and a canceling. (there is no power to cancel totally an election) Even if the election were delayed a month it would not matter as it's not as if one leaves office the day of the election anyway.

Also keep in mind only congress - NOT the executive branch - has this power.

on edit: shit though... A post above just reminded me of the martial law possibility. They could do whatever they wanted in that situation. I don't think they would try it though. Congress should probably amend seriously previous acts regarding the president and FEMAs power in a martial law situation knowing this administration. Just to be on the safe side.

[donhakman]

77. r

[Pachamama]

80. Oh yes, and so convenient that its controlled by the Bu$h loving Repukes

Welcome to the DU....for a 1st posting, your posting suggests you support this idea?

Tread lightly...your in a forum where that idea isn't going to get a lot of support....
:hi:

[Helios]

81. Well

I recognize the right of congress to schedule an election.

From the constitution.

"Section 4. The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing Senators. "

The constitution is pretty clear here.

Of course this right doesn't extend to executive members.

I think congress should exercise this power and delay for a month if something did happen. Firstly no one leaves office in early december anyway - secondly I think it would be the only way to prevent a mass panic vote for bush. People don't think logically when put in extreme situations that have them controlled by fear. (one of the first things you learn in psychology which is true practically every time) I am also almost certain they have been conditioned to vote for bush after spain. The message practically EVERY media outlet was sending was "the terrorists won in spain!". Message? Vote against bush and the terrorists win if something happens here.

People certainly would need time to cool off and get their senses about them.

There is also precedent to this. Many years ago congress delcared that Alaska could hold its election in october (or september, I forget which) if it so chose. Why? Bad weather expectation for november that might limit peoples ability to vote. Alaska did not choose to hold it in one of those months, however.

I suppose if one (or more) states were attacked in a way that limited peoples ability to vote (more so than bad weather) it would also be good to delay to allow those people to vote. You can't very well vote if going to your polling place is impossible due to fire/fear/bio weapon/whatever extreme possibility exists.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

108. I respectfully disagree, Helios.................

There is NO guarantee that a panic at election time would result in a irrational vote for Bush. I see no evidence to support your claim that the events of Madrid have affected anyone's rationality of their election choice. I'm sorry to say that the media outlets are not a good litmus test of national mentality. In fact, the media has shown that, in some cases, they are absent when it comes to bastions of rationality.

Second, I believe that canceling or merely postponing an election sends a powerful message as to who really holds the reigns in this country. I realize that talk of revolution and civil war may be a bit precipitous, but the emotion is there. The frustration of these comments speaks volumes as to how Joe and Jane Schmo feel about their places of power in the US these days.

Even a mere postponement of an election would,in some folks minds, call into question the legitimacy of the federal government. Once bit, twice shy, kind of thing. In that event, an even hastier and violent reflex action may occur, one whose aftermath may indelibly change and divide this country forever.

Bottom line: Don't fuck with the election. It MUST go forward for the sake of our country.

[Helios]

118. I can see how it could work out both ways

I am not saying that the media is being used as a gauge for how people would react, but simply that the media has disinformed people so greatly and ingrained so many messages that an attack would work out to bush advantage.

For one thing the population is generally misinformed or totally unaware of most of the acts of this administration that actually hurt the common person. Unfortunately you can not expect a totally misinformed population to work in their own best interests no more than you can expect a child in first grade to successfully do calculus when they simply don't know how. This is the reason behind the current state of the media and there are many recent books out about it. If people were truly aware what this administration stood for bush would be polling at around 20-30% TOPS. Unofruntately he is not, and this suggests very strongly to me that the media is very effective at what it does. (or fails to do)

(I actually got an email from a right winger the other day telling me how great bush was and how bad "that kerry person" is. Care to know how he spelled "kerry" though? "Carry". That's the kind of ignorance we are up against.)

If something were to happen you can't expect people to come to any kind of conclusion that they should vote against bush when they don't know all the facts and are only being told one side of the story.

It's like a trial. Say a person is accused of murder and is in fact guilty. As a juror, I have to make a conclusion. Let's say I start from knowing nothing. Let's say the defense is FAUX news and let's say the prosecution is CNN.

FAUX comes up and tells me that the accused is totally innocent and not a shred of evidence against them exists.

CNN comes up and is a little more honest. They conceed the accused was in the area at the time. They fail to mention the bloody knife with the accused finger prints, the boasting the accused made to his friends about it, the 2 witnesses, and the video of it happening.

Can I conclude the accused is guilty just because they happen to be in the area? Of course not.

Now let's say the Guardian from the UK is outside the court room. They are screaming to get in. They have all the evidence and are dieing to show it to you, but they are locked out and you never heard them.

Now, how are you supposed to be informed with those kinds of sources? How are you supposed to make the correctl conclusion? You can't.

The average american is in the same situation. If there was a "terrorist attack" they would conclude they should vote for bush. Why? Because they *don't know* it wouldn't mean terrorists win. After all, they were told the terrorists won in spain. They *don't know* he's lied to them. After all, they have always heard that he is honest. They have not seen everything to the contrary.

Maybe I'm totally wrong - but I simply do NOT have much faith in peoples senses right now. I think if anything happened they would simply blindly rally around bush, wave the flag, and vote accordingly.

[Walt Starr]

91. Actually, under the constitution, you are wrong.

Congress has no such power:

Aticle 1, Section 4, Clause 1:

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Place of Chusing Senators

Article 2, Section 1, Clause 2:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

Amendment XVII:

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.

When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the Constitution.

Amendment XXVI, Clause 1:

The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.


Under the constitution, it is the State Legislatures who have these rights, not the Federal Congress with the exception of elections for Representatives.

Under the constitution, no federal authority has a right to postpone or cancel elections. Only State legislatures have the rights to postpone.

Nobody has the right to cancel.

Constitutionally, if a federal authority tries to postpone the election, they are operating outside the law of the land.

Elections can be postponed on a local basis by State Legislatures. There can be no national postponement of elections under the constitution unless the constitution is amended to make such a federal provision.

[Tellurian]

95. If Bush declares Martial Law...all elections are automatically suspended//

as per federal fema rules..

[Walt Starr]

101. That's the coup

and if that happens, all bets are OFF!

[Tellurian]

112. I just found this interesting tid-bit concerning a fema employee..

FEMA worker ordered home in handcuffs, for anti-Bush T-shirt.

http://www.wvgazette.com/section/News/2004070734

[kohodog]

186. We already had a coup

In 2000!

They stole the election last time. Four more years and we'll be living in a Theocracy.

[Helios]

110. That would be very

sinister. You are correct, martial law would essentially elevate him to dictator.

I really don't think he would try it though. If he did I don't think it would be acceptable to anyone. He might get away with it for a month or two when people are still in panic or afraid, but after that all hell would break lose. It would be a short lived dictatorship.

I think congress should amend current federal law to greatly limit such a possibility. Unfortunately that's probably not very likely.

[Tellurian]

124. Past experience is the predictor of the future..

and you have to know what you're looking at on the chess board..

Take what you know in the present combined with what has happened in the past and a picture of the future emerges...

aside from stealing the elections once again...Fema/Martial Law is the only sure solution to Bush's dilema... losing the election..

[Helios]

106. Hmmm

Here is the federal authority that you missed

"The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; *but the *Congress* may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Place of Chusing Senators*"

The congress is superior to the states in this section. It says states may choose time, place, and manner for holding an election BUT the congress may at any time alter those regulations. Obviously this is giving the federal government an ability to override the states.

"The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures."

This says nothing about election dates as the above section does. It only deals with terms, numbers of, and qualifications. Establishes one vote per elector.

"When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct."

About vacancy - again, not election dates.

"This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the Constitution."

This is only here to deal with any dispute regarding the legitimacy of an elected senator.

"The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age."

The intent of this amendment was to grant the right to vote to those who are 18. Again, it doesn't overrule or conflict with the start of article 4 granting the ability of congress (or the state legislatures) to schedule elections.

This amendment might be useful in the event a legislature tried to cancel an election - clearly something they can NOT do. However, so long as it is only a schedule change and NOT a cancel - 18 year olds, and everyone else, would still be able to vote.

I don't see what you pointed to that overrules or conflicts with

"The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; *but the *Congress* may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Place of Chusing Senators*"

Clearly the national congress can schedule elections. This says a state can decide when to hold elections BUT the national congress may at any time change such dates. Obviously the intention of this section of the constitution was to grant this power. Otherwise it would not be present, and as you know every section of the constitution was considered and debated over heavily.

[Tellurian]

79. I didn't read anything here mentioning...

the announcement that was sort of slipped in by Andrea Mitchell before Tom Ridge took over with his spiel.

Mitchell said: the fact that George Tenet resigned and because of the timing, Congress being between sessions; there wouldn't be any available time for the Congressional process of lengthy interviews and confirmation of potential candidates for the appointment of a new Director of the CIA before the elections.

So, that means our CIA Intelligence ship is adrift and the security of our country is tentative at best. This announcement, coming as a prequel of a new terrorist alert for the conventions and possible cancellation of elections, is pretty ding dang serious!

What the hell is going on here..

Anyone else hear this?

[MISSDem]

83. Dare I say it?

"the only thing we have to fear is fear itself".

[Tellurian]

90. No don't say it. It would be an inappropriate analogy to the desperation

of the Bush Cheney Team..

They know not bounds..

...stealling elections

...allowing 3,000 people to die in the WTC for personal enrichment

...lying to start an unnecessary War.

...unconscionably torturing hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent Muslims..


I don't Fear fear-

I want to make sure this madman doesn't get away with causing anymore harm than he's already done to more innocent people.

[Wind Dancer]

107. Well said, Tellurian!

[Tellurian]

131. Good on you, too!<g>

[Codeblue]

82. I would like to see some

more press coverage of this. I never saw the coverage and the link to the South Carolina paper didnt seem to provide me with much information.

What I got of that is that some people want to set up some guidelines if there needs to be a cancelation of the election because of terror attacks.

However, if there is a civil war then I say HELL YESS!! Its about time this country had a cleansing and a new start.

[cthrumatrix]

85. VP Potty Mouth say "F-Off" with free elections.... democracy is over

[elehhhhna]

87. No need to cancel elections--They're warning of Attacks at the Conventions

Scenario #1: There's an ALARM at the DNC, complete with TONS of footage of the Conventioneers & select Dems running like little puppies from the building. The BA "Foils" the "Attack", thus saving Democracy, all Democrats, etc. The footage of a "scared" Kerry & Edwards , edited to disguise the fact that they're running to protect their wives & children, plays AD NAUSEUM, juxtaposed against convenient candid shots of GB playing Master & Commander during the emergency.

Watch for it.
__________________
~It is the duty of every patriot to protect her country from her government ~

[ellie]

88. I can't believe that

bushco's corporate masters will allow a Code Red Martial Law decree to happen. No one can leave their house to go shopping? It will never happen. Not in a million years. It's all about the money. That is why bushco will never outlaw birth control. The drug companies would have a fit.

I hope I am right.

[faithnotgreed]

93. email keith to become free elections version of lou dobbs

im going to email keith olbermann to use his show as a forum for exposing what is going on.

who knows - he was mad enough last night maybe he would be open to the idea of each week talking about this...

ill also email peter beinart (?) the editor of the new republic. he was on cnn about 12:30 today. they were talking about this latest alert and i think he is open to hearing about this issue

gotta keep the faith and keep trying to get the word out.

like people have been saying here recently, they think some media read our forum and then report on some of the topics that are brought up here...

[Rose Siding]

96. Ridge's words read like Exhibit One

...as much as anything else.

snip>
Since September 11, 2001, we have had intelligence that al-Qaeda intends to launch more attacks against the homeland. Credible reporting now indicates that al Qaeda is moving forward with its plans to carry out a large-scale attack in the United States in an effort to disrupt our democratic process. Based on the attack in Madrid and recent interdictions in England, Jordan and Italy, we know that they have the capability to succeed and hold the mistaken belief that their attacks will have an impact on America's resolve. We lack precise knowledge about time, place and method of attack but, along with the CIA, FBI and other agencies, we are actively working to gain that knowledge.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,125072,00.html

[Tellurian]

134. yeah, sort of like setting the stage, a culprit is standing in the wings

waiting to pounce...and if it does happen..they'll say,

Well, see, we were right!

suckitup!

[supernova]

102. Nobody is cancelling the elections

Get a grip folks. :eyes:

Let's just take a minute meditate and recenter ourselves.

[Selwynn]

103. No one is cancelling anything.

[MallRat]

104. Under the Constitution, Bush can't be President indefinitely.

Unfortunately, if you want to get really tinfoily, Dick Cheney could be.

U.S. Constitution
Article II, Section 1:
Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected...

Amendment XX, Section 1:
Section 1. The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January...

Amendment XX, Section 3 (the part that was not superceded by Amendment XXV):
If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified;


So if I'm reading this right...

The Constitution only says that an election must be held to choose a NEW President. But if the electoral process is suspended and the electors don't have an opportunity to choose the next President, Vice-President Cheney becomes Acting President on January 20, 2005, since Bush's 4-year term must end on that day whether he likes it or not.

Until that election is held, Cheney would remain "acting" President.

-MR

[Occulus]

114. "Cheney can be President"

wonder why Bush* recently said that?

[Helios]

133. Yup

totally correct. Even if the election were delayed beyond the date bush is to leave office had he lost the election he will STILL have to leave office.

This is not tinfoily at all I can assure you. You've read it entirely correctly.

[Mountainman]

144. then the "Vice President elect", that would not be Cheney

[AntiCoup2K4]

170. Also, according to that same passage Gore could have (and should have)

..challenged the Selection. Then, we wouldn't be dealing with any of this bullshit now :grr:

[Sven77]

109. canceling or rescheduling elections

OCT SURPRISE - The government needs to establish guidelines for canceling or rescheduling elections if terrorists strike the United States again, says the chairman of a new federal voting commission .. AP News
Bush appointee

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/06/26/election2004/21_17_566_25_04.txt

from
http://www.timnews.com/

[GiovanniC]

113. Letter to the Editor -- Send It If You Want To

One hundred forty years ago, our great nation was torn in two in a war that threatened the very foundation of the United States of America. Nearly a million people were killed, their blood soaking the soil and sand of Virginia, Tennessee, Georgia, Maryland. With ongoing battles and bloodshed on American soil, the presidential elections of 1864 seemed particularly at risk. But this is America, a Democracy. It is a government that, as Thomas Jefferson said in the Declaration of Independence, derives its "just powers from the consent of the governed." And it is through elections that we give our consent to that government. During a bloody war on American soil, elections proceeded.

On Thursday, July 8, Tom Ridge of the Department of Homeland Security indicated that he was looking into the legalities and the constitutionality of suspending or postponing the presidential elections in the event of a terrorist attack. Not even two weeks earlier, the Detroit Free Press reported that the Bush-appointed head of the federal voting commission said that the "government needs to establish guidelines for canceling or rescheduling elections if terrorists strike the United States again."

Government actions have restricted our right to free speech and assembly with ironically named "Free Speech Zones" that separates Bush protestors from Bush supporters and quarantines them well away from Bush and the media. The Patriot Act infringes upon our freedom of privacy, the fourth amendment right to be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures. The government has been fighting our Freedom of Information by being excessively secretive in their actions and working to prevent the people from performing an overview of their government. Until only recently, the government has fought the fifth amendment rights of US citizens being held prisoner in military brigs and prisons -- the right to speedy trials, the right to a jury, the right to an attorney, the right to hear the charges against them, the right to call witnesses.

Now the government is setting into motion a plan that seeks to rob us of the most basic freedom a Democracy provides -- the right to elect your government and representation.

We are repeatedly warned that the terrorists "hate us for our freedoms". Does this government believe that if the strip away all our freedoms, that the terrorists will love us?

[senseandsensibility]

119. Good letter!

I especially like the last two sentences. What a great point. That about sums it up, doesn't it? Thanks!:yourock:

[laylah]

145. Thank you!

I did send it to my local rag and the one in Ft. Collins, Colorado. Thank you for your well thought out LTTE! Kudos! :toast:

Jenn

[Canuckistanian]

117. Maybe to them, the Constitution is a 'quaint' document

I wouldn't put anything past them.

[KamaAina]

120. How will they hate us for our freedoms

if we don't have any freedoms?

Huh?

:scared:

[ok_cpu]

129. Do they really need to postpone?

or cancel? How about if all of the poll places needed to be guarded for our protection due to the "threat"? Wouldn't that be enough to influence an already tight election?

[Helios]

135. Does anyone know if the repubs tried this before?

I.e. a bunch of repubs with guns hanging around outside the polling place (just beyond the distance limit) with pro bush and anti-dem signs/clothes/etc?

[Pallas180]

174. HELIOS, that was Rehnquist's first job in the Republican Party

he was sent out to (I forget, Arizona or Colorado) and sat at a table
outside the polls, and told "minorities" they had to qualify to vote
by being able to vote. a lie as far as I know. Of course those who
couldn't read were shewed away by him.

either in a biography, speech, or book about him. Read it at least 4
or 5 years ago.

[ibegurpard]

137. Can this discussion be continued HERE:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1949995
With what appears to be the actual word for word quote?

[freeminder]

142. Cigar anyone?

Tommy Franks Says Bush May Discard Constitution If Another Terrorist Attack Occurs
by Rob
Fri Nov 21st, 2003 at 06:30:54 EDT


Gen. Tommy Franks said in an interview with the lifestyle magazine Cigar Aficionado that if another terrorist attack occurs in the United States "the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government" The stunning revelation is the headline story on the right-wing news site NewsMax for Friday. Franks said that another terrorism attack will result in "... the Western world, the free world, loses what it cherishes most, and that is freedom and liberty we’ve seen for a couple of hundred years..." He indicated that if another terrorism attack occurs Bush will likely declare martial law and the Constitution will apparently be "discarded".

Kos article

and Transcript

[Swamp Rat]

146. I don't give a damn if the voting booths are covered in anthrax!

I'm still gonna demand my vote count on November 2nd. Fuck this martial law crap! If they try that, they will have a revolution on their hands and their biggest worry will be gun-totin' right wingers.

[Pachamama]

183. Hey Swamp Rodent - Don't give the Repukes & Bu$h/FUCheney ideas

....they are busy in their "War Room" thinking up how to pull this one off....

I'm with you....I will be willing to die to get my vote counted and nothing is stopping me....

"They will have to pry my ballot out of my cold dead hands...."

[Swamp Rat]

184. Oi Pachamama!

Ha ha! Did I say that?

[Pachamama]

187. No, I guess we both thought it though....

....yeah, I don't care if they say there is Anthrax at every polling station, I'm going....

Actually, in reality, I'm voting in CA with my absentee ballot and then I'm going to be working the Florida Polls on Nov. 2nd....

So, maybe Jeb will have what's left of the National Guard in Florida declaring Martial Law and there I will be, Pachamama disobeying the martial law decree to sneak little old ladies to the polls....

[Swamp Rat]

189. I hope everything goes well for you in Florida.

I was in Miami when the FTAA protests were going on and the FL police looked like stormtroopers attacking defenseless Americans. Florida is not gonna get one dime of my money until Jeb is in jail. As for LA, I have to stay and fight here... driving elderly folks to the polls and gluing "Bush/Fuck2004" posters everywhere... maybe I'll create a variety of anti-Bush posters.

[Piperay]

147. Their ultimate wet dream is

to postpone or cancell the election and they will do whatever they can to bring that about, that's the repuke desperation. :scared:

[genius]

149. I heard the news too. WE need to publicize that it's Bush behind it

[thecrow]

158. KICK KICK KICK!!!!!!!

[GoneOffShore]

156. Kick - NT

:kick: :kick:

[BevHarris]

159. There are ways to pop this trial balloon

Immediate effective sound bytes and plenty of media.

This story has been on Black Box Voting (http://www.blackboxvoting.org) for a week now. I've been on national radio and have interviewed with two large newspapers, and have proactively thrown this wrongfully constructed trial balloon about postponement/cancellation of elections in, along with immediate rebuttals. It works. The audience picks it up quickly.

You'll find several snappy rebuttals at Black Box Voting (.ORG only, folks; the .COM isn't connected with us.)

Learn them. Use them instantly when you hear this brought up. Write them in letters to the editor. Do it now.

And if you don't hear it brought up, bring it up yourself and promptly discredit the concept and decry the appropriateness of any public official who suggests it.

Many of you saw, last week, the post Andy Stephenson and I made about the suspicious activity on the 8-state TVA electrical grid. Here's a better plan B:

Pencils. Paper. Day off.

Last I checked, you can still buy pencils and go to Kinkos to print ballots. Give the day off so people can hand count the votes.

If the power grid was knocked out, import the stuff from a neighboring state. It is never appropriate to cancel elections.

Bev Harris

[Pallas180]

163. CNN poll on Dobbs show: 90 percent believe its playing politics

and the next show is saying the same thing: is it terror threat or
politics?

finally, the media has turned!

[bagnana]

164. White House says it will not guarantee elections:

From today's press briefing:

Q On Ridge's security warnings, can the President today guarantee Americans that no terrorist attack can upset the U.S. elections this November, that they will go ahead as planned?

MR. McCLELLAN: Ann, I don't think anyone can make guarantees. But the full intention is to move forward and hold those elections. I don't know specific information related to election day or any other of the high profile events that we have coming up. What we can guarantee to the American people is that we will continue to take strong steps to make sure that we are doing a better job every day of protecting the homeland and enhancing protective measures in certain areas of the country. And we will

continue waging the war on terrorism, on the offensive, to defeat the terrorists. That's what we will continue to do.

These are threats that we need to take seriously, and that's why it's important to keep the American people informed.

THEY WILL NOT GUARANTEE THE ELECTIONS GOING FORWARD. THEIR "FULL INTENTION" IS TO MOVE FORWARD AND HOLD THESE ELECTIONS. THEIR INTENTION? Since when is it their choice to hold them, instead of the god damned right of every American Citizen to have them? Facists.

[TWiley]

192. I agree. It is not their choice.

Good point. However, I believe that America is actually spelled "bananna republic"

[Pachamama]

181. Thanks Bev....Pencil, Paper, People...and counting each vote.....

Amazing and simple, isn't it?

I guess if the Federal Gov't saw it possible to give the Day off for Reagan's Funeral and a day of mourning, giving Americans the Day off on Nov. 2nd (like most nations) isn't asking too much is it?

Count me in for any election watch team...I'm also happy to go locate myself in any needed state....I'll send in my absentee ballot in California so I can locate myself wherever needed.

Hey, absentee ballots? Now, there's an idea....why doesn't every American get an absentee ballot and they can turn them in and then they can all be counted? Hmmm....I guess that's too simple, isn't it?

[spooked]

169. WHAT IF Bush Handlers are SCARED OF BUSH and

are making up the Terror Alerts because THEY don't want BUSH blaming THEM when he loses in November! (Blame the Terrorists)

Also, I believe that Bush Handlers are SO AFRAID of AMERICAN PROTESTS during the Republican Convention that the NYC Terror Threat is another STORY they are making up so that they can say to Bush: "Sorry, you can't go out that door, Mr. President. There are Terrorists out in the streets."
Rather than tell him THE TRUTH: "Sorry, Mr. President, you can't go out that door. There are Americans out in the streets who will pelt you with rotten eggs."

[LibertyorDeath]

176. Remember 50% of Americans don't bother to vote

The 50% that do are split approximately 25% Repub

25% Dems

The Independents, True Conservatives & Libertarians would one hopes

fight but in totality it will be a small # of Americans Fighting for

Democracy if these Fascists push to that point.

It appears they will.

[greenbriar]

177. for those that don't think it could happen

remember the jews never thought Hitler would try to eliminate their race.

[walldude]

179. I think there is going to be

A record voter turnout this year. I'd bet alot more than 50% of people will vote. I always voted 3rd party because I never saw much difference between candidates. Frankly candidates boiling down their platforms to some buzz words insults my intelligence. This year however, even though I'm not a Kerry fan he'll be getting my vote. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
As far as cancelling or delaying the election, if we don't get to vote we batter take to the streets by the millions to protest. The rest of the world is anxiously awaiting this election like we are. The world is depending on us to get Bush out. Right now, and I get this from speaking to people when I travel abroad, most foreigners know it's the government doing all these rotten things and they still have a modicum of trust in the American people. If Bush wins, steals, postpones, or fixes the election in any way we better show our solidarity with the rest of the world by doing something about it. If we don't the world isn't only going to hate the American Government but it's people as well. And that my friends is unacceptable under any circumstances.

[Zorra]

188. Instilling more fear and leaving their options open. n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

190. A good article to read (and re-read)

is "They Thought They Were Free."


http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free_nn4.html


Also see Pallas's thread here in GD about the police state at G8 in Savannah.


I hope for the best but think we'd best be prepared for the worst.