Brendan Nyhan's tear-down of F9/11 -- counter it!

[neverborn]

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20040702.html

[Cocoa]

1. this passage says it all

However, "Fahrenheit 9/11" is filled with a series of deceptive half-truths and carefully phrased insinuations that Moore does not adequately back up. As Washington Monthly blogger Kevin Drum and others have noted, the irony is that these are the same tactics frequently used by the target of the film, George W. Bush. Moore and his chief antagonist have more in common than viewers might think.



So, they're admitting the president of the United States is a liar, but they don't care about that, they go after a filmmaker?

:crazy:

[redqueen]

3. I hope you sent that comment to them (author & editor)

These whores need their noses rubbed in it HARD!

[NashVegas]

7. Better Yet

Given that Moore states that "In the days following September 11, all commercial and private airline traffic was grounded," how are viewers to know that this description did not include the Saudi flights out of the country? The "after September 13th" clause may show that Moore's claim was technically accurate, but it leaves viewers with the distinct impression that the Bin Ladens left the country before others were allowed to.

The truth of it is, the Bin Ladens WERE allowed to leave the country while air space was officially shut down.

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/06/09/Tampabay/TIA_now_verifies_flig.shtml

[Elbowroom]

12. they have gone after the president

they wrote their first book

http://www.spinsanity.org/book/

All the President's Spin
George W. Bush, the Media and the Truth
By Ben Fritz, Bryan Keefer and Brendan Nyhan
Coming August 3 from Touchstone Books, a division of Simon & Schuster

All the President's Spin, the first book from the editors of the acclaimed nonpartisan website Spinsanity, unmasks the tactics of deception and media manipulation that George W. Bush has used to sell his agenda to the American people.

From his campaigns for tax cuts to the debate over war in Iraq, President Bush has employed an unprecedented onslaught of half-truths and strategically ambiguous language to twist and distort the facts. Fritz, Keefer, and Nyhan's powerful critique of Bush's record of policy deception explains why the media has failed to hold him accountable and demonstrates the threat these tactics pose to honest political debate.

This is the essential book for every citizen who wants to understand how George W. Bush has misled the nation and why, if left unchallenged, all the President's spin could soon become standard practice -- a devastating development for our democracy.

Advance praise for All the President's Spin

"A clinical, dispassionate, and intellectually bulletproof analysis of the ways President Bush has manipulated public opinion. The authors meticulously paint a troubling picture of the way our national debates function. It ought to shame the press corps into mending its ways."
-Jonathan Chait, The New Republic

"Politicians talk so much that hardly anyone pays close attention to what they're actually saying. Ben Fritz, Bryan Keefer and Brendan Nyhan do, staying up late to match words with reality. It's a tough job -- imagine the migraines -- but the rest of us can be glad someone's doing it."
-Tucker Carlson, CNN

"A chilling and comprehensive account of how the government has polluted our country with a thick mist of foul propaganda."
-Neal Pollack, author of Never Mind the Pollacks

About the authors

Ben Fritz, Bryan Keefer, and Brendan Nyhan are young writers who founded Spinsanity (www.spinsanity.com) to counter falsehood and deception from politicians and pundits of all stripes. Their award-winning analysis has been read by hundreds of thousands of visitors to their website since 2001 and is currently featured in a weekly Philadelphia Inquirer column. The authors live in Los Angeles; New York City; and Durham, North Carolina, respectively.

[StClone]

2. How about Humor cause the truth sure don't phase 'em.

Letterman's Top Ten List: Top Ten George W. Bush Complaints About "Fahrenheit 9/11":


10. That actor who played the President was totally unconvincing

9. It oversimplified the way I stole the election

8. Too many of them fancy college-boy words

7. If Michael Moore had waited a few months, he could have included the part where I get him deported

6. Didn't have one of them hilarious monkeys who smoke cigarettes and gives people the finger

5. Of all Michael Moore's accusations, only 97% are true

4. Not sure - - I passed out after a piece of popcorn lodged in my windpipe

3. Where the hell was Spider-man?

2. Couldn't hear most of the movie over Cheney's foul mouth

1. I thought this was supposed to be about dodgeball

[K-W]

4. What's the point?

There is no reason to get sucked into pointless arguments with people who have no intention of being convinced of anything and just want you to debate thier talking points, not yours.

[neverborn]

6. Are these talking points true or not?

[KurtNYC]

5. Director's Cut

I think the film should be re-released or replaced during the run with a "director's cut" version. Put the WHOLE 7 minutes of Bush sitting there in, no cuts. Show it in split screen with what was happening in NY at the exact moments he was glued to his goat book. Give me a 10 minute montage of Bush flubbing, mangling and destroying the language. Show Bush during the debate talking about how his foreign policy will be "humble" then hard cut to the bombing of Bahgdad.

I just want to ask these Kool Aid drinkers: If the film is half truths WHY DOESN'T BUSH SUE?!

[Old and In the Way]

8. Great idea!

I'll bet he has 100 hours of unused tape....More has enough original material that he could serialize a weekly release through the election.

But you are spot on with your "Director's Cut" version as the initial DVD release....that'd guarantee another huge windfall for Mike and restoke the interest for a 2nd viewing.

[unfrigginreal]

9. I love it

Get rid of the Moore narrative during the 7 minutes and play audio from the split screen view of what was happening in NY.

[Sterling]

15. You can get that at shadowgov.info

www.shadowgov.info

We were the first to do the morning of 9-11 in split screen a couple of years ago. Our DVD is goes well with Moore's movie.

[Retrograde]

11. isn't it more like 25-30 minutes?

I saw a video - somewhere on the web, can't remember where exactly - of the entire school visit. Put the whole thing on the DVD, from the time he arrives at the school until the time he leaves. Show the stunned stare, the idle flipping of pages, the CIC receiving his instructions from DC, along with what was happening in New York.

What bothers me the most are the Bush apologists who state that the *president was waiting for instructions from the Secret Service. Waiting for instructions!!?? Isn't he supposed to be in charge??

[genius]

10. There was a great counter in debateusa.com

You ought to check it out.

[gulliver]

13. They are competitors of Moore.

They have a new book coming out called All the President's Spin. I'll probably buy it, but will respect it less than I would have had they not written this feeble piece on Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11.

My impression of Spinsanity is that it is a group of three young writers who, while talented, don't yet have the best judgment when it comes to spin. They fall into spin themselves far too easily. This mars their work fairly dramatically at times, and the F9/11 article is a good case in point.

For one thing, it is surprising that Spinsanity doesn't address their obvious conflict of interest in criticizing Moore, a fellow Bush critic and sales competitor. Spinsanity's new book is directly in competition with F9/11. The failure to note that fact shows a lack of introspection on Spinsanity's part that is further evidenced in their column.

The Spinsanity article correctly chides Moore for attempting to read Bush's mind as Bush sat in the Booker classroom. That is fair criticism. I also found that part of the movie annoying. Moore should have just let the footage of Bush speak for itself. It does speak for itself.

However, Spinsanity's snide remark in their column's headline ("The temperature at which Michael Moore's pants burn") is simply a cheap shot. The insinuation that Moore is a liar is unforgivably cloaked in second rate wit. That juvenile habit (a cutesy headline that often distorts the information in the column beneath it) is far, far to ubiquitous in editorial columns today. With that one headline, Spinsanity tells us that they are trying to be interesting and engaging more than they are trying to be accurate.

Overall, I found this column surprisingly weak, a testament to Moore's fact checking. Spinsanity is forced to complain that Moore said things that were technically accurate but somehow gave a false impression anyway. The only word that comes to mind to describe that mode of forensics is "lame." (I suppose I could also say "juvenile," but I just said that.)

Spinsanity also informs us that F/911 was "fortunately ... free of the silly and obvious errors that have plagued Moore's past work." The spin of that formulation is almost breathtaking in its mix of unfair exaggeration ("plagued") and grudging admission of the factual strength of Moore's movie. Karl Rove, eat your heart out.

If I had to guess, I would say that this Spinsanity article was given very little editorial vetting. It reads for all the world like a talented twenty-something whose idea of vetting is to run his/her column by a few smart friends. What seems clear to me is that they don't have much in the way of paid help. I'd stack Michael Moore's fact checking over Spinsanity's any day.

[Bandit]

14. The way a documentary works is a person tells you a fact then explains

in their own way how that fact came to be. They don't like Moore's explanations but can not refute the facts laid out. Remember the fact has to be easily documented. A real fact. It is just the explanation of that fact that bares scrutiny. For instance it is a fact that we went to war with Iraq. It is left to the imagination why we went to war with Iraq. The facts given for the reason didn't bare out.