A DU'er has called some other DU'ers "Infirmary Feminists". Sweet!

[JanMichael]

The quote was from the gargantuan "Institutionalized Sexism" thread, a thread that really draws out the "winners" on the "do as you please" team. It's from Cammille Paglia (A one trick pony who strives to be hated by her "own", there's a nice psychosis there somewhere...), a defender of Prostitution (And one can assume the Economic systems that encourage it), do you know what that means?

"Let's get rid of Infirmary Feminism, with it's bedlam of bellyachers, anorexics, bulimics, depressives, rape victims, and incest survivors. Feminism has become a catch-all vegetable drawer where bunches of clingy sob sisters can store their moldy neuroses."

Nice.

How I love the enlightened ones...

[slinkerwink]

1. ahhh, here's to our less-enlightened DU male posters!

[comsymp]

34. Lets not be sexist- here's to ALL our less enlightened members!

[ronnykmarshall]

66. I've been thinkin' of you today.

I've been playing Miss Billie Holiday today in my car in your honor.

:loveya:

[slinkerwink]

100. ha.....which song was it?

;-)

[Forkboy]

76. There's some not so enlightened female posters here to

as I found out today.

(and no,I wasn't referring to you)

[slinkerwink]

101. I know you weren't referring to me

there are plenty of women who stand by and don't challenge sexism because they don't want to "rock the boat"---it's quite sad.

[Forkboy]

108. Lots of sad things here

[slinkerwink]

110. again, right on that one

[Forkboy]

126. Been right on many things today

You have as well.Shame only one side recognizes that though :shrug:

[wryter2000]

2. Ahhh, Camille Paglia

The academic counterpart to Ann Coulter.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. Molly Ivins on Camille Paglia

http://bush.cs.tamu.edu/~erich/misc/ivins_on_paglia

Italics are indicated like _this_.)

Impolitic, by Molly Ivins.

I Am the Cosmos

Austin, Texas --- ``So write about Camille Paglia,'' suggested the
editor. Like any normal person, I replied, ``And who the hell might
she be?''

Big cheese in New York intellectual circles. The latest rage. Hot
stuff. Controversial.

But I'm not good on New York intellectual controversies, I explained.
Could never bring myself to give a rat's ass about Jerzy Kosinski.
Never read Andy Warhol's diaries. Can never remember the name of the
editor of this _New Whatsit_, the neo-con critical rag. I'm a no-hoper
on this stuff, practically a professional provincial.

Read Paglia, says he, you'll have an opinion. So I did; and I do.

Christ! Get this woman a Valium!

<snip>
One of her latest efforts at playing enfant terrible in intellectual
circles was a peppy essay for _Newsday_, claiming that either there is
no such thing as date rape or, if there is, it's women's fault because
we dress so provocatively. Thanks, Camille, I've got some Texas
fraternity boys I want you to meet.

There is one area in which I think Paglia and I would agree that
politically correct feminism has produced a noticeable inequity.
Nowadays, when a woman behaves in a hysterical and disagreeable
fashion, we say, ``Poor dear, it's probably PMS.'' Whereas, if a man
behaves in a hysterical and disagreeable fashion, we say, ``What an
asshole.'' Let me leap to correct this unfairness by saying of Paglia,
Sheesh, what an asshole.

[comsymp]

38. Well worth the read-

It's also in one of her books (Nothin' but Good Times, IIRC)- and, as usual, she's spot on.

( :hi: )

[senseandsensibility]

121. God Bless Molly Ivins!

She's got it all: talent, humor, originality, likeability, clear headedness, intelligence, fairness, and then there's Paglia....:puke: :puke:

[Bunny]

4. I'm confused. Is Camille Paglia a DUer?

Sorry, but I didn't keep up with the Instutionalized Sexism thread. I'm pretty sick of the sexism I see here on DU and chose to avoid that thread.

Can you clarify it?

[JanMichael]

6. No Camille would probably a CU'er, or maybe a DU'er on a bad day.

Actually she's an Anti-Feminist-Feminist what ever the fuck that is. A person that found a niche in the idiocy of the NYC intelligencia.

A real DU'er quoted her on the monster thread. I thought it rather disgusting.

[Bunny]

7. Okay, thanks.

I'm sorta familiar with Camille, and I felt pretty sure she was not a DUer! That would be too much to bear!

[Solly Mack]

5. Thank you! I knew I had seen that phrase before

and all I could remember was that it was from some "name brand" idiot.

[mzmolly]

8. WTF does depression, anorexia, bulimia, rape and/or incest

have to do with feminism ?? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding this nutbag? I sure hope I am.

Ah, here is some more of Mz. Piglia's uhm "work???"

http://privat.ub.uib.no/BUBSY/nomore1.htm

[Warren DeMontague]

9. Fight! Fight! Fight!

Jesus Christ, does everybody have nothing better to do today than rile up the women's studies contingent versus the men on the board who refer to certain women as "hot"? How many threads are you all fighting in, now? Six? Eight?

Go over to freerepublic.com if you want to see some men (and women) with their heads firmly up their rectii. Other than that, my 2 cents on this issue? Lighten the F Up.

You would think that George Bush isn't out there sending kids to premature deaths for a series of bald-faced lies. Or that the GOP isn't currently working it's puritannical tail off to turn this country into a bass-ackwards theocracy. You would think that this wasn't an election year, and a damned important one, too. You would think the enemy is here, and not out there nominating guys like Leon Holmes to the federal judiciary.

Personally, (and if this puts me in the "do as you please" camp, I'm proud to say that's where I'm at) I'm a friggin' libertarian on what consenting adults choose to do with their own bodies. That includes financial transactions, thank you very much. Legalize prostitution? Perish the thought! Why, next you might suggest that it's not any of the government's business what you want to read, watch, smoke, think or say in the privacy of your own home, who or how you want to screw, or how you want to choose a dignified, pain-free exit when you're terminally ill!

We don't need a damn sex or morals police staffed by the right, and I'm crazy enough to say we don't need one staffed by the left, either.

Feh.

[prolesunited]

10. The thread in question

had NOTHING to do with men referring to certain women as "hot."

Yes, you women go sit in the corner while the men discuss the important stuff. :eyes:

Thank you for reminding me why we NEED to continue to bring issues that are important to us to the forefront in the political dialogue.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. Is this what I said?

"Yes, you women go sit in the corner while the men discuss the important stuff."

:eyes: yourself.

That's not what I said. If that's what you read, maybe you should get your eyes checked.

What I said was, I'm not sure why there are, like, 6 threads where the same fight is taking place right now. And unless I'm mistaken, the original starting point of the whole brawl was a thread talking about John Edwards' daughter being "hot". Which apparently offended some folks, but not me particularly. Dialogue all you want about whatever you want, be my guest.

Or don't be my guest, if you find that turn of phrase too patronizing. Sheesh.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. yes Massah

I won't be objectin no men folk that wanna schtup Edwards daughter in a limo whether she gets a vote or not...don't whup me Massa...please..

[Warren DeMontague]

41. Give me the link

to the post you found so offensive and sexist, okay?

Seriously. If it's that bad, I will gladly concede that I'm full of it.

[Misinformed01]

40. No, dear. I started the "Institutionalized Sexism" thread

I never saw the "Kerry's daughter is hot" thread in the lounge until a few hours ago.

As far as "dialogue" is concerned, it seems that what you have to add is fairly shallow and ammounts to saying a whole lotta nothin' that could be summed up in one sentence: "Lighten up, ya Wimmenfolk"

I understand that you think of yourself as a nice man....right up til it comes to the part where you can't possibly understand why these Wimmen are makin' so much noise! It hurts your ears whilst you are tryin to think of impotent stuff.

You need to 1. Let go of your penis 2. Get an editor--or let your wife read your posts after she gets done putting the youngins to bed.

Stephanie

[Cheswick2.0]

47. or ..... "we'll plan the sit ins, you go make the sandwiches....

and bake the brownies, babe". :eyes:

[Misinformed01]

51. Hey! I wish you didn't live so far away!

You could come over to my girl's party! Michael set up the trampoline in the living room, and we (my girlfriends) are jumping on it while he and a couple of his friends are watching some dumb sports show and drinking beer!

It's fun!

Stephanie

[Warren DeMontague]

52. I can fedex you a straw man

to fight with, if you'd like, because you're obviously not talking to ME.

[Misinformed01]

56. Oh yes. l certainly was

Please, with strawmen, please use UPS.

Thanks

[Warren DeMontague]

70. Okay...

Again, I was telling everyone to lighten up. Sorry, I think certain situations call for lightening up. So, shoot me.

I don't "think of myself" as a nice man, I am one. Whether or not you believe that is of no consequence to me, but I refuse to be pigeonholed as some kind of evil, sexist reactionary, just because I had the nerve to publicly disagree (if that's even what I did) with you on something.

But I looked at the "institutionalized sexism" thread that you started. Since you've done such a nice job of condensing what I was supposedly trying to say (while apparently "grabbing my penis", no less... jesus, who's got gender predjudice on the brain?) It seems to me you had a few main points, there:

"men got women" to support institutionalized sexism.

Well, I don't buy that "men" are monolithic, and neither are women. And it's not real clear, from your original post, what you consider institutionalized sexism.

You don't know why women call other women "feminazis".

Hey, neither do I. That's one reason why I try to limit my intake of right-wing hate radio.

You don't know why otherwise liberal women say "I am not a feminist"

I might say it's because, for some reason, "feminist" has come to equal, in some folks' minds, humorless, uptight, and man-hating. Before you quote that out of context, let me say, Not my mind. But you asked the question-- and I think it's pretty widely acknowledged that the PR around the word "feminist" is one big reason many young women don't self-identify that way. I think it's also widely acknowledged that "feminist" is one of those words, like "liberal", that the right has turned into a dirty word.

You don't like "the man show."

Well, I'm not a big fan, either, but I thought Jimmy Kimmel and Adam Corrolla were occasionally funny. Overall, it's pretty brainless. There's far better stuff than that on Comedy Central.

[slinkerwink]

13. ok, I'll just let men fuck women over and not do anything about it

[Bunny]

14. Telling people to "lighten the F up" is a great way

to minimalize their issues. Since it doesn't concern YOU, it needn't concern them? Thanks! I'll just go sit down and shut up! :eyes:

[prolesunited]

17. No, we have his permission now to

"Dialogue all you want about whatever you want, be my guest."

[Bunny]

20. Well isn't that darling?

So glad to have his permission. Yessir, so glad...

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Oh, Jesus...

Creative quoting allows you to ignore the fact that I beat you to it on using that particular turn of phrase against me. Hence it was tongue in cheek even when I said it--- I did it to myself, in that very post. But, noting that would prevent you from pigeonholing me as the "enemy"...

Here's a clue:

I am not the enemy.
I am not your enemy.
I do not hate women.
I do not oppress women.
I love women.
I respect women.
I respect smart, opinionated women.
I respect powerful women.
I respect women who don't agree with me.

I just don't understand why there's a whole messload of infighting on DU today, originally about something that I personally don't think is so terribly offensive- a thread in the lounge referring to Edwards' daughter as "hot". Okay? I referred to the "women's study contingent" as shorthand. I have nothing against women's studies, or contingents. I didn't even lay blame for the fight, I just questioned whether or not it was an effective use of everyone's energy right now. Hell, maybe it is. Maybe I'm wrong. When I said "Lighten the F up" it was directed at everyone who was fighting, not a particular side. I haven't seen any evidence of any horrible, sexist, hate-filled transgressions on this board, and judging by the invective, you would think that's what was going down. Sorry, but I just haven't. I didn't read all the threads, so if I missed it, please give me the link.

But, again, I'm a man, but I'm not the god-damn enemy.

[Bunny]

43. Well, you hit it right on the head!

"...about something that I personally don't think is so terribly offensive..."

You're entitled to your "personal" feelings. Why aren't I? Do you even begin to see how that can come across as "sit down and shut up"?

And you may not be the enemy, but you have got to understand that women have been listening to this shit for WAY too long. Minimizing our issues by telling us to "lighten the F up" is going to stir up the pot. If you don't want to get called on it, don't say it.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. Okay, fair enough..

Again, lighten the F up was directed to everyone who was fighting. I apologize if you didn't get that.

But I still haven't been shown anything that, to me, is so personally offensive that it warrants the six threads full of brawling.

[Bunny]

63. Well, thanks for the apology. I guess.

I'm glad that you're sorry that I didn't get that.

And again, your degree of being personally offended is different than mine. Like you say, fair enough.

I notice that you haven't been here long. I've been here since the very beginning, and to me this is the Same Old Same Old, and trust me, it's REAL old. Especially from a place where I feel the men should know better. I can always go to Free Republic, as you say, if I want to hear this nonsense.

Something you should understand is that women will never lighten the F up about this - it's much too important to just shut up about.

And so it goes, over and over and over again, until people finally begin to understand.

[Warren DeMontague]

74. Please Enlighten Me...

"Something you should understand is that women will never lighten the F up about this - it's much too important to just shut up about."

What, exactly?

I mean, be specific.
What precise issues are we fighting about?

[Bunny]

80. I have no idea what you are fighting about.

What I am "fighting" about is the very simple idea that women are entitled to the same respect and rights as men are. You cannot have read the 6-8 threads and still have no idea what we are "fighting" about.

To me, these are just as important as whatever your issues are. When there is a thread that addresses issues of importance to women, and those women are told to lighten the F up - I'm going to speak up. I will continue to speak up until men of good will finally "get it".

[Warren DeMontague]

83. Well, I told everyone to Lighten the F up, again.

So maybe I don't respect human beings, in general. Wouldn't be the first time that particular accusation has been leveled.

What I am "fighting" about is the very simple idea that women are entitled to the same respect and rights as men are.

I agree completely. 110%. 120%. A Million Percent. Women are entitled to the same respect and rights as men are.

So I guess we're not fighting.

[DrWeird]

25. Reading comprehension is an acquired skill.

The poster was telling both sides of the debate to shut the fuck up. Since there are more important things to get worked up about then a thread about whether or not Edwards' daught is sexually attractive.

[prolesunited]

28. Again

that was NOT the thread or the debate in question.

[DrWeird]

33. Sure it was.

Like it or not, all these threads have pretty much run together into one ugly mess.

[Cheswick2.0]

54. are you calling Stephanie a liar?

She said she had not even seen that thread about Edwards daughter.

[Misinformed01]

ummm no dear

they didn't.

[Bunny]

31. Thanks. I'm pretty sure I can read.

The nuns taught me that, forty years ago, pal. And NOT minimizing the importance of women's issues, to women, is also an acquired skill.

[Pithlet]

36. I think we can read just fine.

The poster basically accused some of us who object to some of the sexism displayed on DU of being morality police. He/she may have conceded that the other side was misbehaving as well, but that doesn't take away from the overall tone of his post. It was very much "quit your bitching".

[Misinformed01]

45. You are correct Dr. Weird

There ARE more important issues in life than whether Kerry's daughter is hot!

I bet no one else on DU realizes that until just now.

Goddamnit!

This is really frustrating....if my girlfriends weren't over, and we didn't have to jump on the trampoline some more.... I would put some thought into what you wrote.

Stephanie

[Cheswick2.0]

59. Will there be psuedo lesbian kissing and stuff?

I mean, after you are finished jumping on the trampoline?

[Misinformed01]

64. I just invited you in the post above!

Do you have any of those spray bottles that we could fill with ice water?

Fun!!!

[Cheswick2.0]

65. why of course!

A girl should never be caught without her spray bottle and lip gloss.

[slinkerwink]

97. hey, I've got fishnet stockings on hand!

[Eloriel]

102. Not like that isn't what men have been telling us for

decades (and in fact millennia) now, is it?

I get so tired of the same old predictable arguments. One of these days I'm going to make a master list -- save them the trouble of thinking them up on their own (or what passes for it in their minds).

[Jade Fox]

15. Why does the mere mention of Feminism make some guys go psycho?

I hate to break it to you, but a lot of Feminists are not part of some
Women's Studies contingent arguing with men all the time.

Oh, and thanks for reminding us the Feminism is not really important.
That's a familiar one.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. I don't think I said that, either.

"Feminism is not really important"..

Hmmm. Don't think that came out of my mouth.
Would you prefer a straw man to fight with, or would you like to address the stuff I actually say?

Feminism is really important.

However, there are varying interpretations of what constitutes feminism. Not all feminists believe that the government needs to be in the morals business.

edit:speelink

[Jade Fox]

39. Address why your first post was so "reactionary" in the sense of

your need to go off for several paragraphs. Honestly, would you
have had the same type of response if the issue was racism stated
from the point of view of a Black man?

And of course, no, you didn't say that Feminism isn't important. You
implied it.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. I "felt the need"

to go off for several paragraphs because I came here looking to get energized for today's battle against the GOP, and I counted six, seven threads with the same brawl going on in them.

Again, Please read what I wrote. If you think I'm implying that feminism isn't important, that's your projection. There are varying interpretations of what constitutes feminism, however. I questioned whether or not a thread in the lounge referring to Edwards' daughter as "hot" was really worth 6 threads full of fights, yes. I also said that my libertarian beliefs lead me to think that the proper role of government shouldn't be dictating what consenting adults want to do with their own bodies. Period. If that makes me "reactionary", then so be it.

[Cheswick2.0]

62. Okay, I will comply

Bush is evil. We must win. Kerry Edwards rah rah rah.
Now can I talk about feminism?

[prolesunited]

73. And, AGAIN, these threads have

NOTHING to to with the thread in the Lounge about Edwards daughter being hot. It was a 200+ thread in GD.

But, I guess it is much easier to trivialize our legitimate concerns with sexism by dismissing us as a bunch of jealous women offended because we aren't getting any attention. Some may speculate that we're plain, dumpy and rather homely as well, upset that we can't compete for sexual attention so we lash out. That certainly would go along with the stereotypes portrayed here.

AND, I have absolutely no idea where prostitution comes in or what consenting adults want to do with their own bodies. Like you, I could care less.

[Warren DeMontague]

79. Hey, We Agree.

We probably agree on lots of things.

"I guess it is much easier to trivialize our legitimate concerns with sexism by dismissing us as a bunch of jealous women offended because we aren't getting any attention. Some may speculate that we're plain, dumpy and rather homely as well, upset that we can't compete for sexual attention so we lash out. That certainly would go along with the stereotypes portrayed here."

Wow. Did I do that?

A) Not even close.
B) As far as "legitimate concerns with sexism"-- maybe if you stopped attributing things to me that I didn't say, you might be able to tell me what those are. Really. I'm all ears. Okay?

Again, the only thing I wrote in my original post was, that I didn't understand what all the fighting was about- and, from what I saw, lots of it seemed to be around calling Edwards' daughter "hot"-- and I questioned whether prostitution, like drug abuse and other "morals" vices, really should be the province of gov't. Because that was how this thread started.

[prolesunited]

86. Hey, JanMichael!

Since you started the thread, care to correct this poster?

Was it REALLY about Edwards daughter being hot and government legislation of morals?

If so, I guess I must be the one who is confused.

[JanMichael]

92. WRONG WRONG WRONG! Good gawd my friend, pay attention.

"Again, the only thing I wrote in my original post was, that I didn't understand what all the fighting was about"

Because there's a serious problem with our very uncivilized patriarchal society?

"and, from what I saw, lots of it seemed to be around calling Edwards' daughter "hot""

Not the thread that I took from so what's that then? Nothing. Wrong. You made an incorrect statement to bolster whatevr your point is/was/could be. hat's either sloppy or...You make the call. My wife has already (As in prior to this post) corrected you on this.

"and I questioned whether prostitution, like drug abuse and other "morals" vices, really should be the province of gov't."

Too many issues smacked together. Prostitution? Perhaps that's encouraged by our exploitive Capitalist system? Yeah? Maybe?

Drug Abuse? Which one? Alcohol? Nicotine? Crack? Pedophilia? Incest? Tough calls for so called "Civil Libertarians', eh? Be specific and maybe a solution might arise but this broad stroke mental masturbatory crap is SHIT!

"Because that was how this thread started."

Proven WRONG, try again:-)

[Pithlet]

22. Let's just sweep the discussion

under the rug just because you say so. Feminism and women's issues is just a silly old thing to be discussing on DU. :eyes:

[Generator]

26. Hey I liked your post !

I was just thinking when the fight against our fascist leaders is over, then I might be in the mood to go back to the bitching and moaning about sexism.

It's always there no matter whose Prez. And no matter what, more women are SCREWED when Repukes are in office,period.

[msmcghee]

30. impeachdubya . .

. . you made my day.

We don't need a damn sex or morals police staffed by the right, and I'm crazy enough to say we don't need one staffed by the left, either.

:headbang:

[smirkymonkey]

55. Oh, please!

It's not about morals, it's about treating women like human beings.

:headbang:

[Cheswick2.0]

44. too bad so sad

We will talk about what we want. Get off the thread if you don't like it.

[DrWeird]

11. Wait a second...

are we all supposed to be against prostitution now?

Did I miss a memo?

[Cheswick2.0]

67. I realize that being against prostitution

would be like asking you to vote against you own self interest.

[Nevernose]

81. Prostitution is exploitation

And it has nothing to do with feminism or the empowerment of women. And, although I think Vanessa Edawrds is hot (which makes me a terrible human being according to some folks around here, thoguh I stand by my belief in her hotness), I have to say that the entire sex industry is a degrading, destructive, and exploitive way to treat women.

[ronabop]

87. All work exploits the worker.

Which is why sex workers are unionizing to get better treatment, pay, and health care.

http://www.google.com/search?q=sex+worker+Union

Oh, and prostitution is not just a woman's issue. Men sell themselves too, and get much lower wages for it.

-Bop

[tnlefty]

16. Did this thread originally have a poll in it?

I responded in that one early, checked in later and noticed it was heating up, but it seems that some of the posts are missing. I had no idea that it had gotten that long or that intense...clingy sob sisters...nice, huh?

[kayell]

18. Well, at least these threads let us sort out the real adult men from the

boys. I know which ones I prefer to talk to.

[Guaranteed]

78. And the fascists from the liberals.

Oh...the social pressure tactic. That'll earn you big points with ME.

[InfirmaryFeminist]

19. Hey.... what the....?

I am a parody of myself.

[Pithlet]

24. LOL!

You really did it. Hehehe.

[supernova]

27. Now that's funny!

:D :thumbsup:

[trumad]

29. LOL

I know who you are...I know who you are... And you're still a babe too me....

[InfirmaryFeminist]

32. Hehe

Watcha talkin bout ;)

[Nevernose]

48. Two posts -- obviously a troll!

Hey, are you hot?
:hi:

[InfirmaryFeminist]

49. Some people say that....

but what do I know... :shrug:

[GOPisEvil]

53. Yeah...you're just a chick...whaddya you know?

*ducks*

:evilgrin:

[InfirmaryFeminist]

57. Careful, you're playing with fire here.

have you ever encountered an infirmary feminist before? Do you KNOW what you're in for? I have given you fair warning.

[GOPisEvil]

58. OK - I'll be good...if you need me...

...I'll be in the corner, er, objectifying women or something.

[Nevernose]

61. A catch all vegetable drawer? Is that what we're in for?

Does Paglia work for Organized Living now? What the hell is she talking about?

It says that it was made at 6:25 pm on my screen...

[ronabop]

85. Vegetable drawer metaphor.

The sense of her phrase was that a single issue cause (equality in rights and treatment) had been hijacked by people pushing for other (or additional, or related) causes and agendas. Feminism had been expanded (under some definitions) to even include fairly extremist positions, for example, Dworkin's stranger platforms (all male/female sex is rape, and marriage is institutionalized slavery).

So, rather than just fighting for equality, feminists started fighting against fashion, against advertising, against bullemia, against anorexia, against mental illness, against language terms, for abortion rights, for preferential custody status, against men having their own private organizations, against churches that had gender in clergy, against prostituion, against pornography, for superior social status in some cases, etc., etc. etc.

A whole vegetable drawer of issues, instead of just one.

Because a large portion of the items in the drawer were related to mental and/or social illnesses, the "Infirmary" prefix was used to describe it.

-Bop

[Nevernose]

104. I was making fun of her metaphor

I thought the "vegetable drawer" metaphor was poor, so I was taking cheap shots at it. Also, it was in response to NMSA's post on "You're all in for it now!" and I was joking around with her.

My opinion of Camille is not exactly high, though, and though your interpretation of her essay does indeed ring true, it does not change my opinion of her being a whack-job.

Most of the issues that you've mentioned I happen to feel are to a great extent women's issues and need to be addressed (even if I DO think that Vanessa Edwards is hot).

I haven't seen you around before, so lemme say "Welcome to DU" :hi:

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[InfirmaryFeminist]

71. Do you need one?

[rumguy]

130. oh that's delicious

:-)

[KG]

35. methinks that ms. paglia, and those that would quote her

aren't rape victims, or incest suvivors. they would be singing a different tune if they were.

[Misinformed01]

42. Of course they aren't

those women put themselves through college selling the foreskins of their dates to make boots.

BTW, Michael says "hi, how's FL" but, he looks fairly pale and shakey right now.

[KG]

68. he's always looked pale and shakey to me.

white-est honkey in FL.

[Terran]

69. Good god...

Paglia said that?? Awful...

[Iris]

72. What? This thread isn't locked?

[JanMichael]

77. No! That's the rub. A woman started the thread in question, the shitty...

....attitudes came after. It shouldn't have been locked for the subject matter, perhaps for the size, but maybe only for the assholes that seemed to enjoyed the nasty social attitudes towrds women these days. Actually they're on this thread too.

Fact is that a lotta guys can't grasp they're own sexist attitudes, even on the mostest liberalist board ever!

[Iris]

84. I know. I'm irritated. This is why there probably will

never be a star by my name.

I don't know why this is called Democratic Underground. As I said in a previous post, the name should probably be more like:

AlmostRepublican
DemocraticRepublicans
I'mtoopoortobearepublican
Republicanwannabes
AmbivalentDemocrats

[Eloriel]

119. I am with you 100%

Ah, self-edit.

[Iris]

128. Imagine - being banned from DU for being "too left"!

:hippie:

[slinkerwink]

90. it's funny how liberal men can be blind to their own sexism

and they act like total babies when they're called on it. How dare WOMEN call them on their bullshit?

[JanMichael]

98. and THAT is what started the original "Sexism" thread

bingo!

[slinkerwink]

106. ahhh, the infamous ones of the past

where a lot of liberal men acted like babies, told us women to shut up, lighten up, called us bitches, prudes, or accused us of being overly PC, or that our "issue" was less important than the issue of racism.

[Forkboy]

127. Some liberal men didn't say anything of the sort

but one would never know it by the reaction.

[Cheswick2.0]

91. some even suggest that saying they want to "do " someone

in a crude manner is not sexist....just crude.

[slinkerwink]

95. it's sexist

[Eloriel]

112. Oh, they CAN grasp their own sexist attitudes -- they just choose

not to. They want to "protect their supply" and not give up even a teensy bit of their precious male privilege.

Deep down, they KNOW better. It's just not in their best interests, in their opinion, to "get it."

[LittleApple81]

75. BOY AM I GLAD I CAN HIDE THIS AND THE OTHER

"feminist-antifeminist" threads... I am an independent woman who believes in herself. Period.

[Bunny]

82. Well, we're glad you can hide it too.

And we'll continue to fight the battles for you. :eyes:

[prolesunited]

88. She doesn't need *our* help

After all, she's independent and got where she is all by herself.

Do you vote? Have a job? Perhaps you have credit cards and bank accounts in your name? How do you think those things happened?

[slinkerwink]

93. yeah....just ignore the importance of feminism to my generation

way to go!

Some people are just unbelievable.

[Cheswick2.0]

105. You can thank a feminist

if you have career options beyond Nurse, Teacher or hooker.

You have ever called 9-11 or known someone who did because she was being beaten by her husband...and the cops actually came and made him stop.

You have a credit card.

You have the right to vote.

You have maternity leave and can't be fired for being pregnant.

You use birth control without having to get yous husband to sign a permission slip.

You can own your own property.

You have the right to ask for custody of your children in the case of divoce.

You have ever played sports.

You have the option of being pro-choice.

Your boss can't pay your co-worker more because he "has a family to support".

[Droopy]

89. You know I really don't see a lot of sexism on this board

It does happen on occasion, but for the most part I'd say we're a rather enlightened bunch. When I have seen sexism, I've seen it from men as well as women. And I think very few have any hardcore hatred for the opposite sex. Every once in a while someone will make a blanket statement about men or women I think more out of frustration than anything else.

[slinkerwink]

96. oh.....figures that a man wouldn't see a lot of sexism on this board

as most women here will tell you, sexism does exist here and there's plenty of it.

[Droopy]

113. Oh, it's here

I'm not saying that it does not exist on this board, just that it is not the prevalent attitude. And what does me being a man have to do with anything?

[slinkerwink]

117. it often is the prevalent attitude

just look at all the sexist epithets men aim at women, whether they are republicans, or women that they despise.

[Cleita]

99. Excuse me if I spit my tea all over my screen.

This board is extremely sexist. Most men, even the most liberal of men somehow turn into the worst of sexist pigs about certain things no matter how hard they try not to be.

[Droopy]

103. "most men"

See what I mean. Women can do it too.

[slinkerwink]

107. nope

[Cheswick2.0]

111. you talk as if only making blanket statements about the opposite sex

was sexist. Mnay things are sexist.

[Cleita]

116. Yeah, most men just can't cross the bridge to the estrogen

side of the river. I really don't know what you are afraid of.

[Droopy]

120. I'm not afraid of anything

Except maybe spiders.

[ronabop]

109. Well, I guess it's a good thing there isn't any blatant misandry...

In the above post. Or all over these insane threads.

:evilfrown:

-Bop

[slinkerwink]

114. *snort*

you poor men....who have been subjugated by women over the past ten thousand years, who have been subjected to systematic rape, who do not have birth control covered on all insurance, who have less pay equity, and who are constantly sexually harassed or objectified on a daily basis.

Yeah, I feel for you.

[ronabop]

124. Hm. Someone who can't see past their own sexism...

I think I might have seen that somewhere in this thread already, but I'm not sure where....

:)

-Bop

[slinkerwink]

*another snort* come back when you know what it's like to be a woman

[Cheswick2.0]

115. good try

no one is buying

[Cleita]

94. I dunno.

I tend to be an Amazon myself. You know I pick my metaphorical weapons, whether it's my tongue, my pen or my keyboard and I refuse to be walked over and stomped on by society. Is that okay with you? I hope so :-)

[rumguy]

118. I don't get your point exactly

Are you upset that someone used a term Paglia coined?

Or pissed at the general position that they took in that thread?

[slinkerwink]

122. lol

[rumguy]

129. this whole argument is like fallin' down a rabbit hole

once you get in it there's no way out.

[JanMichael]

123. Beat's me, i'm drunk now. However Eminem should know:-)

I've heard he's a real pro on these sexism/mysogyist issues:-)

[prolesunited]

125. Yes, Eminem

The patron saint of feminists. :puke:

I'm not drunk, but I'm tired of these threads now. I think I'll find somewhere else to play. :hi:

[Moderator]

131. Locking. This is a continuation of a locked thread

and as such, is against the rules.

Additionally, I remind:

"Do not follow someone into another thread to try to continue a disagreement you had elsewhere. Do not talk negatively about an individual in a thread where they are not participating. Do not start a new discussion thread with the purpose of "calling out" another member or picking a fight with another member. "

Please feel free to take your case to the Administrators in the Ask the Administrators forum.