Can we get Dean back in the Presidential race?

[Peak_Oil]

Damn. Every time I hear him speak I wish we could have a man of integrity in the white house.

[Dookus]

1. hrmm..

[ronnykmarshall]

3. You need to clean wine off my screen!

That is brillant!

[MissB]

6. Bwahahaha!!!

Best.Answer.Ever.

[Kahuna]

LOL!

:loveya:

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

33. LOL...

aww... we're bullies now?

Sorry, when people go on and on about Dean's messiah-like qualities on a public discussion board, they should expect some disagreement.

The claim at this point that Dean would be a better candidate than Kerry is just asking for some push back.

Bullies... lol

[newsguyatl]

37. yeh, actually your behavior is at times

you always find your way into a dean post to dash water on those who he inspires. a true sign of bullying to me.

and your "aww" just illustrates the immaturity and condescension laced in many of your posts.

[Dookus]

40. tough

it's a discussion board.

I swear, there's something congenital about Dean supporters when it comes to disagreement - I've never seen a group of people get so personally offended because others disagree with them.

I have never ONCE felt "bullied" because somebody here disagreed with me. I guess I just don't have a victim complex.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

110. The irony is thick here tonight

[Still_Loves_John]

41. Oh please

"the usual suspects -- the playground bully dean-haters."

No worse than the bullying faux-martyr Dean fans who treat anyone who didn't support their candidate as somehow less than they are.

[KoKo]

67. .....jerks!....

...

[NNN0LHI]

56. Is that you in that photo Dookus?

Just kidding around.

Don

[Dookus]

59. LOL...

yes, I'm a businessman with a headache from 1958 :P

[Rose Siding]

2. Another year

He still has much to do and lots to give us.

[bkcc]

4. Dean is awesome, but he's not in the race for a reason.

Personally, I love what he's doing now...going out and energizing the Democratic Party, getting people involved.

I would love to see him in the Kerry cabinet, or heading up the DNC, where he can really do something without being scrutinized the way he was during the primaries.

[Eloriel]

14. Nope. He's too good for any of your little jobs.

I don't want him anywhere near a freakin' Kerry administration. I don't want him tarnished that way, I don't want him marginalized in that way, I don't want him diminished in that way.

It's bad enough, IMO, he's publicly supporting him to the extent that he is. That is made much more palatable, however, by the fact that he NEVER says anything that isn't true (e.g., Kerry will be a better President than Bush), and I believe that for the most part he recognizes clearly how important it is to get Bush out of office.

[RummyTheDummy]

15. Gee Eloriel

It's good to see you're not bitter or anything.

[mitchum]

86. LOL!!!

:)

[Cheswick2.0]

105. it's not about bitter

it is about disgust with the party and their pursuit of mediocrity

[Terran]

17. Did you ever think

that one of those so-called little jobs might make Dean more qualified to be president next time? Just a thought.

[Dookus]

22. What?

and sully his perfection by being a politician? Day jobs aren't for messiahs, silly.

[JohnLocke]

65. LOL!

Dookus: :yourock: :yourock:

[Cleita]

24. Excuse me but Dean was qualified to be President now.

However, those behind the scenes decided he wasn't acceptable to them to occupy the White House. Okay Kerry will have his administration, but Dean will not be forgotten as the little guy who could have made a much bigger difference.

[Dookus]

25. no...

the voters decided he wasn't acceptable. He did poorly in the primaries. I'm sure you remember it... it was discussed here.

[Cleita]

29. He did poorly in the Iowa primary before the rest of the

country even had a chance to make a choice. All the lemmings then decided they had to follow Kerry. I know what happened and you can't change the F-A-C-T-S.

[Dookus]

35. He did poorly

in other primaries, too.

The F-A-C-T is that despite spending a year and 40 million dollars, only 18% of Iowans thought he was the best candidate.

The F-A-C-T is that he did poorly almost everywhere.

The F-A-C-T is he was never owed the nomination. He ran for it, he lost. So did my guy. The strongest candidate won. That's a F-A-C-T.

[Cleita]

49. Because he was railroaded. The man was a front runner until

Iowa. You can't change that F-A-C-T. Believe if you want that you and those in your camp have bamboozled everyone to think that Dean was no damn good. The fact is we don't think that because we have the F-A-C-T-S and nothing can change that. The truth eventually becomes self-evident, no matter how hard others try to drown it.

[Dookus]

54. Yes

he was the frontrunner. But come election day, he was a distant third. So what?

Was Dean unaware of what day the caucuses were held?

[Cleita]

62. If you want to know the truth, I'm happy he is spared what

the next president will have to go through to right the wrongs of this present rogue administration. We, the common folk, won't really see a big difference in our day to day struggles, like the citizens of Vermont got from Dean's Governorship, but maybe international problems will be mended and made to go away under Kerry/Edwards.

[lojasmo]

96. fact: peopole are morons. N/T

[Cheswick2.0]

106. a hell of a lot more than that happened in Iowa

a good way to make sure people don't vote for kerry is to keep lying about it.

[Dookus]

120. There were no lies

in my post, despite your nasty assertion. Dean lost. I understand you have problems coping with that, but that's not my problem.

Clinton survived a thousand times worse than Dean endured. Hillary endured more in one month than Dean took during the whole campaign, and she went on to win a senate seat.

Your camp told repeated lies about Clark, but you don't hear us bitching about it 5 months after the fact. It really is time for you to find some sort of closure. I'm concerned about your stability.

[Zomby Woof]

32. behind the scenes?

Like the VOTERS, perhaps? ;-)

[NNN0LHI]

63. Still got DK and Willy as my screen saver ZW

Have received many compliments for it too. Love that Willy troof. Yes, sir. Thanks again.

Don

[Zomby Woof]

73. excellent, Don!

I still love that pic, and saved it so that it may surface again when you least expect it. :-)

[Terran]

36. If you'd re-read my post, I said "more qualified"

You're bashing the wrong guy here. I was supporting Dean before any of you ever heard of the guy, thanks.

And who are these mysterious people "behind the scenes"? Did the people who voted in all those primaries have nothing to do with how we ended up with Kerry? Maybe you'd like to change how we pick candidates, I'm up for that, but you imply that some men in a smoke-filled room chose Kerry for us. It doesn't work that way, sorry.

[Cleita]

69. Well, I heard about the guy back when he was still governor

of Vermont. I was very impressed with his take on universal health care and what he, as physician, thought should be done. This was way back when the Clinton administration had abandoned doing anything about this problem.

[NashVegas]

108. Actually, It Does Work That Way

Except the smoke-filled room is no longer fashionable.

This is a DU issue that will forever remain unresolved; Dean backers, most of them, believe they have a valid claim their guy was torpedoed, and I'm inclined to agree. Except for Lieberman, who maybe 1% of DU supported, no candidate was as brutalized during the run-up to the primaries as Dean, in spite of the fact Dean clearly had the lion's share of support on DU during said run-up.

With a few exceptions, Dean's detractors on DU continue to insist they did nothing wrong and his backers hallucinated the hostility.

Sometime when you've got a day off and you're really, really bored, you may find it interesting to forage through the DU archives starting last July, going through December. It's very clear that anti-Dean people were engaging in both negative propaganda against Dean, and positive propaganda towards their own candidates. And I don't find it a coincidence that many of those people were DLC.

[Terran]

126. Dude...DU had nothing to do with Dean's not becoming the nominee.

I'm well aware of the acrimony that went on here during the primary season. But of what import was that to average Dem voters? None. It had zero effect on the outcome. Now I'd be willing to admit some media bias against Dean because of the 'scream' incident, but that's as far as it goes.

[NashVegas]

131. No, But It Was Where a Strategy Was Played Out

Whether organized or not, I wouldn't try to guess. I know there were some people who were posting on forums off-site who were encouraging others to come here and skew threads - but that's kind of besides the point. Now, you go offline, where people who were undecided and un-communitized had no place to go to for rebuttals ...

The press went negative on Dean long before the scream. AP's John Solomon was particularly nasty.

PS - don't assume I'm a 'dude.'

[NashVegas]

102. Mmmmmmm .. no

HHS is the one most bandied about, and it's not exactly on the route to the WH. Surgeon General is another one I get a laugh at. Clearly marginal.

[Terran]

130. I was thinking of something more high profile.

Like Interior, EPA, Labor, and such. It would at least keep him in play and give him some national and DC experience.

[NashVegas]

132. DNC Chairman Would Be Better

I've already accepted we're not going to see Dean in the White House. It simply won't be allowed, there are too many who fear he'll upset the apple cart. Real change comes from the ground up, not the top down, and Dean was working the ground. Powerful people fear that.

[Zomby Woof]

30. haha

A million laughs and good cheerful fun in all your posts! :D

[mzmolly]

53. I dont think Dean would be *tarnished* in a Kerry admin. A Bush admin

is another story altogether.

Dean is a patriot, and I would venture to guess he would serve our country in any way a President Kerry asked him to.

Dean has said he and Kerry have become friends, it's time for us to bury the hatchet with Dean.

[LuminousX]

55. Huzzah! I fully agree

[WilliamPitt]

114. Are you back again, again?

[unfrigginreal]

128. LOL

Coming from such a prolific writer of swan songs, that's rich.

[neverborn]

136. I love Dean forever, but

Kerry WILL be better than Bush.

[Cheswick2.0]

5. unfortunately not

but I agree. To bad the party decided to go all fascist on us and decide he had to be destroyed.

[Dookus]

10. only in Deanland does

Democracy = fascism

[Dardi]

12. Hey, these days

everything=fascism. It's a smurfy word that people smurf whenever there's smurf that needs smurfing ... um, I mean fascism ...

Oh, and it's the PARTY that's responsible for the Dean implosion. He had nothing at all to do with it. It's those fascists that brought you the Kerry-Edwards ticket because, obviously, Kerry-Edwards represent fascism and only Dean can stand against it.
Sheesh.

[Cheswick2.0]

45. Wwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

you've cut me to the quick. LOL

[NNN0LHI]

68. That is a great Dean photo Cheswick. One of the best I have seen n/t

[neoteric lefty]

61. took the words out of my mouth

good post

:toast:

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NNN0LHI]

70. Bet I came in a close second n/t

[Dookus]

76. Heheh...

you have to subscribe to my newsletter to find out the actual results.

[Cheswick2.0]

109. who are you?

I don't think you were even in the running

[mzmolly]

71. What the hell ?

???

[Dookus]

77. Did you read Cheswick's post?

She claims that the outcome of the Democratic primaries was a result of fascism.

[Cheswick2.0]

111. no dear

that is not what I said. I said the party acted like fascists and they did.

[Dardi]

122. If the party had acted like fascists

You'd be dead by now.

[Dookus]

127. exactly

people throw around the word "fascism" with too much ease.

Nobody was forced at gunpoint to attend an Iowa caucus and vote for Kerry. Free people went on their own accord and voted their conscience.

[Dookus]

125. and you are mistaken

You seem to think that politics is some sort of lawn party. It isn't. Yes, Dean was attacked. So were the other candidates. Dean got a free ride for a long time, but when it came time for the election, he fell and he fell hard.

NOTHING Dean endured came even close to what the Clintons were put through, and they survived. That's the sign of a successful politician.

You think that everybody who heard any attack against Dean believed them. I think that's naive. People understand politics a lot better than you think they do.

The fact is, it wasn't even close. Dean got 18% in Iowa... an abysmal showing for somebody who spent as much time and money there as he did. I know you think that it's IMPOSSIBLE that voters didn't like him, but that's the short story. He wasn't very successful in national politics. That's not a slam against him - it's just the truth. Perhaps he'll do better in the future, but constantly whining that some mysterious shadow forces conspired to destroy him, AND WERE SUCCESFUL shows a real lack of understanding of American politics.

[Doctor_J]

7. we need him on TV too much

he'll be much more valuable as a frequent TV guest (DNC chair, anyone?).

[mandyky]

8. Are you talking about his ACLU debate?

He did GREAT! I know how you feel about wanting him back in the race again. I thank goodness he formed Democracy for America and that he is trying to promote his supporters in other, maybe even more important endeavors than the Presidency.

Hopefully, DFA, MoveOn, ACT, and all these other great organizations don't stop working after election day 2004, regardless of who gets the keys to the WH. We have to have more representation for folks left of freepers in Congress, too.

[Peak_Oil]

20. Yeah. That smarmy blowhard on the other side with his

little black helicopter baloney was just too much.

[mandyky]

84. He also said the audience

watched too many Michael Moore movies. He also tried to say Dean said some stuff and Dean called him on it - that was in opening statements.

[KamaAina]

9. Absolutely

the 2012 Presidential race.

Of course, he'll have to overcome Vice President Edwards' huge advantages in name recognition and fundraising...

[GOPisEvil]

11. We have a nominee and a very good one at that.

Stop dreaming and deal with the reality that Senators Kerry and Edwards can whip Smirk and Snarl.

[Pastiche423]

13. You say that like it's a good thing

[RummyTheDummy]

16. It would be

If you're not one of the masochists who covet the struggle.

[Still_Loves_John]

50. That is so true!

I think some people are just never happy with the the nominee because they'd rather be smugly in the minority. I think there is this personality type that just doesn't like anything popular, and while there's really no problem with that when it comes to music or movies or whatever, when you take that tac politically you're always gonna be unhappy.

[GOPisEvil]

18. Look...like the result or not, we have a primary process.

Wishing for another result at this time is a fruitless exercise.

I'm not the world's biggest Kerry fan either, but he's the nominee and I plan to aggressively work for his election. (Disclosure I supported Edwards in the primaries.)

[LTR]

97. I suppose you're voting for Nader, huh?

Dean floundered in the primaries.

It's obvious that it was because people didn't like him. I personally thought he was a shallow, obnoxious phony riding a wave of pseudo-progressivism.

At least with Kerry, we actually have somebody who has a chance to win the White House. Anyone who thinks Dean could beat Bush is living in an alternate reality.

Besides, Kucinich was the real progressive in the race. Funny the Dean crowd dislikes him so much, and has the gall to criticize anyone besides Dean as being 'fake democrats'. At least Kucinich had real integrity, and believed in what he said.

[Cheswick2.0]

117. DK was not "the real progressive in the race"

That would have been Sharpton.

[neverborn]

138. Kucinich was a FRAUD

Dumped votes to a pro-war candidate. That sure is "real integrity"

[LTR]

140. Huh?

:wtf:

[paulk]

112. it's not a good thing that Kerry/Edwards

will beat Bush/Cheney?

I don't understand what you're trying to say...

[Peak_Oil]

19. Yeah, they will.

I know. And Kerry will call up another 40K troops to fight the infidel muslims. Great.

You know, it seems like any dissent from the Kerry or Nothing party line around here is tantamount to treason. The problem with that line of thinking is that I have to get behind Kerry's platform 100% with no further debate. I'm not a big fan of that.

I might vote for Kerry anyway even though I think it'll be a freakin' disaster, but I can't imagine how I could get him to listen to my interests. "You're just lucky Bush is gone, so siddown and shuddup."

OK, message received.

Not angry, just a little disappointed. Hoping for better.

[blm]

21. Dean was for adding troops, too. To secure the region so they could LEAVE

faster.

Name me one DUer who was 100% behind Dean's every position. I doubt you can, since Dean backed Reagan-Bush on the illegal wars in Central America, appointed conservative judges as governor, and was FOR a flag-burning amendment.

No DUer is 100% behind every position even Kucinich ever took.

What's the point in trying to tarnish Kerry as undeserving at this time? Is there really a GOOD reason?

[Peak_Oil]

26. tarnish Kerry as undeserving? I think that's a little loaded

I can think of one good reason. We've got serious energy issues on the horizon that need to be dealt with in a way that will give us a livable solution short-term and long-term. I don't think Kerry's platform gives very many of us a place to stand.

Of course, anybody who has environmental issues ahead of current affluence is "nuts" and "unelectable."

Oh well.

I'll probably vote for Skull and Bones anyway, unless I grow a spine and vote my conscience.

[Dookus]

27. From kerry's site:

John Kerry has outlined a comprehensive energy plan that will tap America’s initiative and ingenuity to strengthen our national security, grow our economy, and protect our environment. Kerry’s plan will increase and enhance domestic energy sources and provide incentives to help Americans use energy more cleanly and efficiently. When sixty-five percent of the world’s oil reserves lie beneath the Persian Gulf states and only 3 percent lie beneath America, we cannot drill our way to independence. We can, however, develop and deploy clean energy technologies that will make us more efficient and allow us to capitalize on domestic and renewable sources of energy. John Kerry’s plan for a renewable energy trust fund to invest in the development of renewable energy will reduce our oil dependence by more than 2 million barrels of oil a day – about the same amount we import from the Persian Gulf. Kerry’s plan will also create 500,000 new jobs over the next decade and work toward producing 20 percent of US energy from renewable fuels by 2020.

[Peak_Oil]

34. In my opinion, that's exactly the problem.

20% from renewables in 20 years is, in my opinion, a total disaster. It is far from sufficient. We need to change to a sustainable way of life very soon or face some of the problems that Haiti and the Philipines face.

[Dookus]

38. And what was Dean's position?

on this subject? I don't recall him saying he supported radical changes in our society over this issue.

He supported reasonable ideas, like raising CAFE standards. I'm looking at his old website, and I don't see anything approaching what you're calling for.

[Peak_Oil]

42. I know. Kucinich was the only one approaching my thoughts.

I'm not really sure how to describe it, but when I see Dean speak, I feel assured that he has integrity. Then again, I'm an intuitive type and I trust my belly on this one. I think he would level with us if he got up to speed and would assist us in the coming years. Sounds contradictory, no? Maybe.

Anyway, read this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/the_money_programme/1014236.stm

Britain faces the prospect of closed filling stations and empty supermarket shelves as the fuel protesters once again threaten blockades. Last time the problem went away within a week or two. The hope is that this time too, the crisis will quickly evaporate. But there are scientists who believe that the recent problems are just a foretaste of what is to come - all the time and very soon. They predict that from 2005, the world will face a permanent and deepening shortage of petrol and diesel.

Geologist Dr. Colin Campbell warned, "The recent disturbances in Britain are like the tremors that precede an earthquake. The earthquake, which is almost now upon us, marks the beginning of the end of the age of oil." He and a growing band of supporters believe that, in the crisis we now face, we have glimpsed the future. And the future is about to arrive.

The world is utterly dependent on oil. The first modern oilfields were discovered in Pennsylvania, in the United States, in 1861 and global prosperity grew as the torrents of oil flowed. We depend on oil for petrol and diesel and therefore for transport. On land, sea and air. We depend on oil for the transportation of goods and food. We depend on oil for plastics. We depend on oil for agricultural fertiliser. Everyone is agreed that oil is running out. In 1998, the world consumed more than three times the amount discovered, according to IHS Energy Group, the leading oil and gas information firm.. When the oil does run out, without an alternative, the consequences will be severe. The question is when and how. The school of thought predicting early depletion is led by Dr. Campbell. In a 45-year career as an exploration geologist, working for BP, Texaco, Amoco and Fina, he has looked for oil all over the world.


There's more to be found at the link.

[Dookus]

43. I see....

his stated positions weren't in any meaningful way different from Kerry's, but you "intuit" that he had a better plan.

And you want to replace Kerry with Dean based on that "gut feeling".

Very interesting.

[Peak_Oil]

51. Go figure.

According to my Meyers/Briggs I'm an intuitive. That's the way I make sense of the world. I'm pretty sure that another intuitive would have a similar reaction to mine.

Other people are judges or field marshals, among other types. My expression of the intuitive type includes an insatiable appetite for reading combined with heavy weighting on reading nonverbal cues. I wish I could express it better in writing but I have a tough time with it.

To address your points, I don't intuit that Dean had a better plan than Kerry does now. Also, I would replace Kerry with Dean in a heartbeat based on my gut feeling, yes. I infer from your wording that your way of making sense of the world is superiour to my "gut feeling," and I understand that. It makes sense to me that you wouldn't trust my gut feelings.

Anyway, my reason for liking Dean more has 100% to do with my gut feeling on his integrity over my gut feeling that Kerry is bought and sold by large corporations in a way that is similar to Bush's ties to the oil industry. Thankfully, Kerry is bought and sold by a greater number of industries so the benefits might be spread out a little more. Hopefully he will be bought and sold by the ketchup industry more than the defense contractor industry. I don't think the ketchup business kills people for a living.

Any of this make sense or am I just wandering around in the woods all by myself here?

[blm]

78. That's absurd. In Kerry's 19 yrs in the Senate he NEVER took corporate pac

money for any of his elections and advocated since 1985 for public financing of campaigns, writing the ignored Clean Election Bill with Paul Wellstone.

Odd that you would claim Kerry was on the take to the corporations and not much different than Bush in that regard. Who does your research for you?

IMO, you don't know much about Kerry, and certainly not enough to make such absurd claims against him.

[Peak_Oil]

89. I got a lot to learn, very true.

You got any suggestions for me on where to look for research? You've probably been paying attention to politics since before I was born. I'm fairly new to political things.

You're right that I don't know that much about Kerry. Knowing that he's going to continue the War on Terrorism with another 40K troops is a really big red flag to me, and I think that validates my claim to a certain, limited extent. I'll back that statement up with Smedley Butler's assertion that War Is A Racket.

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

I believe we're not defending ourselves, we're conquering another nation in an effort to beat them into submission and take their resources.

That said, I'm interested in reading more about your points. Links? I'll read.

[blm]

91. The UN and NATO aren't going to go in unless the US stabilizes

the region enough for them to get in and help.

Not even Kucinich would suggest we leave immediatel with no attempt at stabilization to allow the UN peacekeepers.

I suggest you read some biographies of Kerry that are available. Kerry has investigated and exposed more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history when he went after BCCI, IranContra and the illegal wars in Central America. He helped bring an end to three wars.

Yes...there is much for you to learn. Start with his site www.johnkerry.com

I also recommend the Joe Klein New Yorker piece from Dec. 2002. It's an easy read for newbies and hits many of the notable points.

[blm]

46. Then get informed. Kerry is the BEST environmental candidate ever to run.

And definitely the FIRST who can win the presidency. The environment isn't just a campaign issue with Kerry. He has been a committed environmentalist for over 30 years. His record is better than even Kucinich's on the environment.

Where have you been?

[Peak_Oil]

57. Where have I been? Partying my ass off. I never paid attention til 9-11.

Then someone tried to kill me and I woke up to the fact that politics is more important than sports.

I always thought Jimmy Carter had some kind of environmental plans, something about solar power or something.

He was a president a while ago, no?

[blm]

74. So you admit that you weren't even AWARE that Kerry had the best record

of any lawmaker on the environment? Funny, since your post comes off as if the environment was ultra-important to you, yet you had no clue that Kerry is one of the top leaders in that area.

Real environmentalists are thrilled to have Kerry as the nominee. They had a sticky relationship with Dean since he governed more as a probusiness centrist. Very odd that you wouldn't know this info by now and are bemoaning the Kerry candidacy as an environmentalist.

[Peak_Oil]

83. Yep.

It's funny.

I'm not really an environmentalist, it's very specific to peak oil. I have a feeling that you're not really into that particular issue.

For the most part I think we can get along without spotted owls or bald eagles or egrets or whatever. Earth plus plastic is fine with me. I'm a pretty lousy environmentalist as far as that goes.

But, I'm sort of a tinfoil-hat wearing nutcase when it comes to the oil thing. Not global warming, or baby seals, or the whales or whatever. Just the oil.

I think we're just about to hit peak oil. Also, I think that it is the most important issue that could possibly be discussed. Since it's not being discussed in the Presidential debates, I can only assume that our new President's character is the most important thing to judge before this event takes place.

[blm]

94. Again, you are wrong. Kerry was the first to link national security

to our environmental policies. He has included it in many of his speeches since early 2002.

Go to his site and see if they still have any of his speeches on environment al and energy policies and their link to our national security.

[Peak_Oil]

100. There was this guy Jimmy Carter who had something to say on this...

“Our neck is stretched over the fence and OPEC has a knife.” delivered 15 July, 1979

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/jimmycartercrisisofconfidence.htm

I will most certainly dig around for Kerry's stand on energy security.

You do agree that he's planning on continuing the fictitious war on terra (war for oil) that we're waging, do you not? Very curious about your answer to this question.

In my opinion, the only energy security we can really count on is to produce all the energy we need here at home. Imagine how many solar panels we could build with the billions and billions we're spending trying to rob Iraq. We're doing a really bad job of robbing Iraq, btw. We're not actually getting a whole lot of oil out of there.

Anyway, since I'll look up Kerry's stance on energy security, I'd suggest http://www.energycrisis.com/de/lecture.html for you. I think it might frame my side of this discussion.

I wish I could encapsulate it in a quick paragraph, but it's sort of a big topic.

[blm]

121. He'll handle terror the RIGHT way.

For over a decade Kerry has studied the cultures of every nation and the influence that culture, religion and spirituality, or lack of it in some cases, have on their governments.

He sees the terror fight as a law enforcement issue and that special forces should be used at decisive times, like when Bin Laden was cornered at Tora Bora, but escaped thanks to Bush's poor strategy.

Kerry wrote a book, The New War, that was published in 1997. It warned about the growing terrorism and its funding through criminal enterprise and international governments. No terror network wants Kerry to win, mainly because he knows EXACTLY how to cut off their funding. He wrote the terror tracking legislation signed by Clinton during his last term. Too bad Bush wasn't enforcing it before 9-11.

[mitchum]

88. And I'm supposed to take advice from the newly awakened?

Keep it, buddy

Kerry 2004

[WilliamPitt]

118. Oy vey

'I just got into politics, but I *definitely* know what's best.'

LOL.

[NashVegas]

116. Kerry's Energy Stand Was Very Similar to Dean's

Many of their proposals on emissions standards and alternative energy were nearly identical.

[Cheswick2.0]

113. they are the worst ticket of my lifetime

so stop with the mind control. People are allowed to like other democrats.

[Suzi Creamcheese]

23. Couldn't he run on another ticket like Ralph Nader?

If you really want him in that much, you just have to get him on the ballot.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PaDUer]

39. Interesting that you would post this..

because today I heard limpballs on the radio saying there's a D group out there, I can't remember what they call themselves, who have a petition with over 7,000 names on it in support of Dean for president, and the nutcase said they're going to the convention in hopes of getting Edwards out for VP. Are you part of that group??

[Peak_Oil]

72. Nope, not going to joust at windmills like that.

The Democratic party spoke, and they chose K.

Oh well.

[mzmolly]

47. I believe Dean is happier where he is frankly. He will make a lasting

difference in this democracy, but this was not the time/place for a Dean Presidency.

I support what he is doing, and know that a real patriot like Dean will keep fighting the good fight no matter what avenue he has to take.

[Snoggera]

52. I wonder how many others have had it with this shit

Sure, Dean is a good, honorable man from all appearances, but he is not the nominee.

Kerry has integrity.

God damn I'm sick of reading this divisive shit.

[Peak_Oil]

58. Sorry, fella.

It's gonna be OK, though. Nobody's going to take Kerry away from you, and I'll probably vote for him anyway. I'm allowed to blow off some steam and have my own ideas, I think.

[Snoggera]

60. No problem

Nobody's going to take Dean away from you either. I believe the time for this type of thinking has past. That's all. It is time to look to the future, not a possibility that didn't occur. Just my thoughts.

I hope you do vote for Kerry.

[mzmolly]

64. I agree, borders on flame bait the way it's worded.

I don't think it bodes well for Dean supporters to lament daily about the fact Dean isn't our nominee. Kerry has integrity, Dean has integrity.

Dean is still being heard, and is a respected voice in our democracy.

He isn't sulking, he's moved the hell on. I am following his example and moving the hell on myself.

Dean would have been a tremendous President, I wish I could vote for him in November, but Kerry will also be a great President, and he has my full support.

I can't say the OP didn't reasonate with me in a way, but I can't go there anymore myself.

[Cheswick2.0]

119. Dean has integrity

Kerry has proven to me that he does not. What Kerry has is the nomination at a time when his opposition is imploding.

[mzmolly]

124. On this we disagree.

Kerry has proven to me that he does not.

[neoteric lefty]

66. Holy Crap!

are we back in February all of a sudden?

I think people need to put aside their hurt feelings of the primary season and focus on what is important.

[Fight_n_back]

75. He kind of got his ass handed to him

by that Kerry guy.

I will leave it to the Republicans to support the second place finisher.

[Pastiche423]

81. So, you're admitting

that kerry is part of the DLC elitest that helped the media assasinate Dean?

[Dookus]

85. running

against someone is not assassination.

If Dean couldn't survive a commercial in the primaries, how could he possibly have survived against Bush?

EVERY candidate is attacked. The winners survive.

What was thrown at Dean wasn't 1% of what was thrown at the Clintons, and they both survived.

[blm]

87. Yeah, right after Kerry had the media try to kill off his candidacy first.

Or was it just my imagination that had every pundit claiming for months that Kerry's candidacy was dead, assuring that most of his fundraising would dry up?

[Fight_n_back]

134. That's how tricky Kerry is

He let Dean get out to a huge lead in money, endorsements (including DLC founding father Al Gore) and then used his special media manipulation powers to win a bunch of primaries in a row.

Plus he made Dean get all screamy in Iowa.

He is very powerful and shouldn't be trifled with, he may even be watching us right now.

[mitchum]

90. NO, THE FREAKING VOTERS CHOSE KERRY OVER DEAN!

There are only a handful of DU-ers who I truly despise...

[Zomby Woof]

93. ah, mitchum!

Glad you could join the inevitable, disruptive fray. :hi:

[Fight_n_back]

133. I was never even asked that question

John Kerry has proven over the course of his career to be more liberal than Howard Dean.

As far as assasination goes, I just saw Dean on Hardball the other day so you must be thinking of a different dead guy because he looked fine to me.

[mzmolly]

79. Dean isn't looking back. In fact when asked he says "coulda shoulda would

a" ;)

has no place in his vocabulary.

Might I politely suggest Dean supporters continue to appreciate him, but stop looking back ourselves?

It's really time to move on folks.

I felt a twinge of what you are saying today seeing Dean debate. But I really think he can be more BOLD, and do more damage to the status quo from where he is today.

Peace :hi:

[Dookus]

92. Thanks Mzmolly...

I greatly admire all Dean has done since the primaries. I have no beef whatsoever with him now.... but some of his supporters still insist on tearing down Kerry, and that gets my Irish up.

[mzmolly]

95. I just realized I replied to the OP twice. WOOPS! I think we can

appreciate Dean without criticizing Kerry. I am so tired of divisive threads on both sides.

I still see bullshit anti-Dean threads here as well, and I hope some Kerry supporters (like yourself) will nix that shit when they see it again?

:hi:

I understand the Irish thang as I'm quite Irish as well ;)

~ Peace

[Cheswick2.0]

123. oh bullshit

it doesn't matter what the manner of the comments. If someone says anything postive about Dean you are all over them with snarky assinine instults.

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stickdog]

80. Me, too. (nt)

[Bush was AWOL]

82. I like Dean, but...

I just don't view him as presidential. He is inspiring at times, but I preferred Kerry, Edwards and Clark over him in the primaries. He'd be great as the head of the DNC, though.

[AlFrankenFan]

98. We've got our presumtive nominee

there's no way things this time around are going to change. Maybe in 2008 or 2012.

[mrdmk]

99. Howard Dean pissed off the establishment, and I like that!

I hope he continues to do so! Any body but Bush can lead to complacency, and we need to write those letters, voice our opinions and protest no matter who takes the White House.

I am an anti-war person and did not like any war in my life time starting with Vietnam. The whole Iraq deal (scam) is a travesty from the get go starting in 1991. When somebody spoke up about this current war I listened, pro or con. The pro war people seemed to be walking with the masses, the con people seemed to follow their own light. We need somebody with enough balls to end this mess of a war and now, not latter and many more dead.

As far as the rest of Mr. Bush Jr. mess, it is going to take years to fix. This destructive government of ours has proved it is easy to destroy something than to construct an idea into a physical entity.

[unfrigginreal]

101. You really should use all of the graciousness shown...

in this thread, by supporters of the victor, as motivation to get behind Kerry. Especially when they send out such a large welcoming committee.

[WilliamPitt]

103. No

[ibegurpard]

115. you have to work with what you're given

waiting for someone else to come along and make everything okay doesn't work. Hopefully, despite what some of the asshole cynics would say, the way that Dean inspired some people who were ready to give up on the process will stick and they will continue to make the changes they want happen THEMSELVES instead of waiting for someone else to come along and do it for them. That's what he meant when he said "you have the power."
I never liked Kerry from the moment people were working to push Gore out of the running in his favor. Edwards left me cold. When I saw them together for the first time the other day, though, I actually felt hopeful. We'll see if they live up to that hope but I can't sit back and wait. I have to get involved and stay involved. I'll never be naive enough again to think that any politician is going to have my best interests at heart and work for them but that's not their job. That's MY job. It's OUR job to work tirelessly to make the changes we want to see happen and we'll have to work even harder to make up for the people who don't give a shit and those who are actually working against us.
Look at what ONE WOMAN, Bev Harris, has been able to do with her bulldog-tenacity. She was able to start a MOVEMENT against unauditable computer voting that continues to resonate all the way into the halls of congress because no one else was paying any attention to an issue that she cared deeply about. No one is dismissing her as a conspiracy theorist anymore. There are many, many other people like her and if change is what we want then that is what we have to do to get it.

[Swamp Rat]

135. Hey wassup Peak_Oil? You did a bang-up job stirring up the hornet's nest

here at DU. I see you got all the big players of the "2003 Primary Flame War" at each other's throats again. Good job.

Now for penance, you must hug 10 republicans and tell them to vote for Kerry.

[Tight_rope]

137. It's not "his" time....maybe later! n/t

[bklyncowgirl]

139. What's Dean doing now? Oh yeah, supporting Kerry.

Can we please give this sort of nonsense a rest until after November? Then if Kerry/Edwards goes down in flames we can fight about how it should have been .................

Or if Kerry wins and disappoints on a major scale after a few years we can start arguing about whether we replace him with someone else.

Until then let's just concentrate on getting the worst president in our lifetime out of office.