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Author Thomas Frank on PBS Now with Bill Moyers tonight-- Fri 7-9

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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 06:42 AM
Original message
Author Thomas Frank on PBS Now with Bill Moyers tonight-- Fri 7-9
Edited on Fri Jul-09-04 06:45 AM by dumpster_baby
Author Thomas Frank on PBS Now with Bill Moyers tomorrow Fri 7-9



Tonight on NOW on PBS: Thomas Frank with Bill Moyer.

"Author Thomas Frank discusses working-class voters; gathering evidence for war crimes."

You should REALLY check this guy out. He is the BOMB when it comes to analysis of what brought America to this neoliberal, darwinist, corporate capitalistic endgame.

Here is a sample: http://www.thebaffler.com/gts.htm

and an interview:
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/June04/Frank0614.htm

Also, see amazon for reviews of his book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805073396/qid=1.
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Book on Kansas was featured in April's Harper's...
A long, but very entertaining read. Had me drinking gallons more coffee than I'm used to.
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Voltaire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. I am reading "What's The Matter With Kansas" right now
Very insightful book, even for a person like me who considers himself pretty insightful. I also find it a pretty depressing read because there is so much that needs to be undone I wonder sometimes that we can do it.

But we have to continue fighting.
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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. excerpts from the interview

Here is an excerpt from an interview done recently by dissidentvoice with Thomas Frank:

/////////////////////

The same thing that’s been the matter with America for so many years: the culture wars. The cloud of inexhaustible right-wing outrage that hovers over so much of the country. Kansas, like many places in America, once had a tradition of progressivism and outright radicalism. Today, though, like many other places, the state’s political center just seems to move farther to the right in response to events. During the Nineties the state erupted in a sort of right-wing populist revolt, tossing out its old-school pragmatic leaders and replacing them with the most conservative Republicans available. It made national headlines when anti-abortion activists descended in massive numbers on Wichita in 1991, and it made world headlines when its State Board of Education took up the battle against evolution in 1999. Today Kansas is the sort of place where the angry, suspicious worldview typified by Fox News or the books of Ann Coulter is a common part of everyday life. So I went there to study the indignant conservative mindset up close.
....

By “backlash” I mean populist conservatism of the kind pioneered in the Sixties by George Wallace and Richard Nixon, perfected by Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, and crafted into an entertainment form by Fox News. Instead of selling conservative politics on economic grounds, it imagines conservatism as a revolt of the little people against a high and mighty liberal elite. Its object is to fight back against artists who dip crosses in urine, Hollywood stars who wear outrageous clothes, Ivy League journalists who slant the news, and snob judges who remove Ten Commandments monuments from the parks, and so on. The “Great Backlash” refers to the long ascendancy of this style of conservatism, ever since 1968. The “backlash mentality” refers to the culture of the movement, to the way its members view the world we live in.
...
....

There is no doubt that liberals bear a lot of the blame for the backlash. Back in the Sixties and Seventies, Democratic Party leaders decided to turn their backs on the working-class voters who until then had been the party’s central constituency, and to try to find a new constituency in groups like college students, environmentalists, and so on. They called this the “New Politics,” and it was a terrible mistake. Among other things, it is one of the sources of the “liberal elite” stereotype, in a historical sense. And while there have been numerous Democrats who have tried to resurrect the alliance with the working class over the years, the dominant, Clinton wing of the party clings to this failed strategy. They essentially agree with the Republicans on economic issues, write off the working class, and try instead to win the votes (and the campaign contributions) of educated, professional people by taking liberal stands on social issues. Their idea of politics is a war of enlightened CEOs versus backwards CEOs. This strategy has been disastrous in the extreme. While stripping away any economic reason for working people to vote Democratic, it has simultaneously played into the “liberal elite” stereotype which is the Republicans’ strongest weapon. The result is what you see around you: Republicans talk constantly about class grievances, albeit in a coded and inverted way, while Democrats never bring it up at all, desperately trying to prove their “centrist” bona fides. What liberals must do to beat the backlash, it seems obvious to me, is to resurrect old-fashioned, upper-case-P populism, and to wage non-coded, non-inverted class war. They must at the very minimum counter Republican appeals to social class with their own appeals to social class.


All three books are about the colossal abuse of the language of democracy in the aftermath of the Sixties. And all three are about the many bizarre cultural inversions of the world we live in: Consumerism as nonconformity; Wall Street as an ally of the common man; the CEO as Deadhead—and now, the Republicans as the party of the working class.
In other words, they’re all about the sheer weirdness of our times. We inhabit a nation where the culture screams constantly about how rebellious and nonconformist and Xtreme we are, but where the politics constantly move to the right. My larger point is that these two aspects of our times are connected to each other; that our pseudo-revolutionary culture in some way helps to generate our reactionary politics, and vice-versa. We talk a lot about both parts of American life, but always separately—pondering one in the front pages and the other in the “Business” or “Style” section. My object is to consider both at the same time, to point out that these two aspects of America thrive symbiotically on one another’s excesses. The white-collar rebels shock and annoy the pious; the blue-collar Republicans are duly shocked and annoyed; and they vote to shower even more power, more tax cuts, more deregulation, on the white-collar rebels whom they despise so deeply. This topsy-turvy system works.
...

more here:
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/June04/Frank0614.htm

////////////////////////////////////////////////


Well, with regard to Frank's suggestion that Democrats "resurrect old-fashioned, upper-case-P populism, and to wage non-coded, non-inverted class war," this is certainly problematic: every time someone like Kucinich tries to do this, major conservative media outlets like the NY Times and the Wash Post savage and demonize him. Also, the Democrat elite have a lot more in common with the GOP elite than they do with the people. On one hand you have grasping greedy types like Clinton, who was actually a wet dream for the GOP elite when it came to economics. WHo needs enemies when you have "friends" like good old globalist Bill CLinton? It was like having a Republican in office.

THen you have true blue blood old money billionaires like Kerry. Oh, joy.....

I guess we are going to have to wait a long time till we get the Dems to take Frank's suggestion!


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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. George Will answers Frank
Edited on Fri Jul-09-04 09:09 AM by dumpster_baby
George Will rebuts Frank with his column of yesterday entitled:
"Left recommends more materialism."


Some excerpts:
///////////////

...

Frank is a formidable controversialist -- imagine Michael Moore with a trained brain and an intellectual conscience. Frank has a coherent theory of contemporary politics and expresses it with a verve born of indignation. His carelessness about facts is mild by contemporary standards, or lack thereof, concerning the ethics of controversy.

He says "the pre-eminent question of our times" is why people misunderstand "their fundamental interests." But Frank ignores this question: Why does the left disparage what everyday people consider their fundamental interests?
...


Frank regrets that Bill Clinton's "triangulation" strategy -- minimizing Democrats' economic differences with Republicans -- contributed to the erasure. Politics would indeed be simpler, and more to the liking of liberals, if each citizen were homo economicus, relentlessly calculating his or her economic advantage, and concluding that liberalism serves it. But politics never has been like that, and is becoming even less so.
...

When the Cold War ended, Pat Moynihan warned, with characteristic prescience, that it would be, like all blessings, a mixed one, because passions -- ethnic and religious -- that were long frozen would come to a boil. There has been an analogous development in America's domestic politics. The economic problem, as understood during two centuries of industrialization, has been solved. We can reliably produce economic growth and have moderated business cycles. Hence many people, emancipated from material concerns, can pour political passions into other -- some would say higher -- concerns. These include the condition of the culture, as measured by such indexes as the content of popular culture, the agendas of public education and the prevalence of abortion.
.....

more here:http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/181140_will08.html

//////////////////


Damn, George Will is smart. He has some superficially plausible arguments, and his descriptive characterizations are superficially compelling, but his weak point is the doomsday machine of outsourcing of white collar jobs and the healthcare fiascoes.

The liberal white collar professionals are going to revolt from the Dem party over the outsourcing of their livelihoods. And everyone is frightened over what is happening with healthcare. And when the whitecollars are no longer going to be available to the Dems just on social issues, the Dems will have to go for a more populist stance on econonic issues.

Also, white collars who have been put out of work by outsourcing will start making trouble. Like me! I actually have the temerity to talk about politics to blue collar types in more than just a superficial way. You should have seen the look on the face of my downstairs neighbor when I introduced the subject of healthcare to him!

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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. Boston Globe compares Thomas Frank to David Brooks
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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. a more detailed comparison of David Brooks and Thomas Frank
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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. another review
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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. Just got done watching Frank on PBS Now--fantastic tour de force
What a tour de force display of knowledge of the fundamental political dynamics of America Frank put on tonight! I sure hope Kerry is reading this book by Frank....
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. excellent sources, excellent analyses, dumpster!
Edited on Fri Jul-09-04 09:19 PM by buycitgo
I saw Frank on CSPAN, heard him on some NPR/PRI show, and on AAR, and he is quite compelling in his basic argument.

is there ANY doubt of that premise?

what are they wasting their time on in the Senate now?

here's another voice in the wilderness who makes tangential, yet similar points, as the only way for the fascist to maintain power is to divide those with common interests--one of the most effective being keeping them constantly stirred up in irrelevancies.

check this, from Jeff Dorchen: playwright, actor, essayist, funny guy:

http://mejeffdorchen.oblivio.com/moments/moment_beans.html

Governing by Publicity Stunt

Hi, welcome to the Moment of Truth: the thing society is trying to dislodge from its throat, but which is actually an endotracheal tube that is the only thing allowing it to breathe

hard to edit and make it comprehensible, but see what you think

I love the part about the seemingly endless stream of publicity events that pugs use to pull the wool over most peoples' ADHD eyeballs.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. I saw him last weekend on C-Span
Very impressive. I didn't know he was going to be on NOW tonight so was pleasantly suprised to see him there. I think I'll buy one of his books.
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. his own site: interviews, reviews
Edited on Fri Jul-09-04 09:24 PM by buycitgo
http://www.tcfrank.com/
he's in New York on the 19th, at a Barnes and Noble
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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. check out hsi page of essays
http://www.tcfrank.com/essays.html

many of them are available on the web.
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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. check out his page of essays
Edited on Fri Jul-09-04 09:42 PM by dumpster_baby
http://www.tcfrank.com/essays.html

many of them are available on the web.
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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
14. this guy and Micheal Moore are the leading leftist thinkers/doers now
Frank's writings are pure inspired genius, IMHO.
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. mp3 & video here for those who missed it
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