Democrats in congress are pissed

[Cheswick2.0]

Apparently the reps kept a vote open for an extra 30 minutes, so that they could twist the arms of their members to change their votes. From what I understand the bill was to strike a part of the patriot act that allows them to snoop on your reading habits at the library? Or did I hear them wrong?

[lovedems]

1. That is what I heard as well.

Flashback to the medicare reform vote. I wonder who they had to bribe this time to get the votes and how much money is involved?

[NewJerseyDem]

2. That's accurate

This type of thing happens all the time on important, close votes.

[Cheswick2.0]

3. The reps keep talking about other things

however every democrat who has come up is pissed off and ranting about what happened yesterday.

[Blue Wally]

10. Not a new thing

It is one of those "strategy" things in the congress. When you have an important "party-line" vote and some of your party are against it or need "political cover" with the folks back home, you let themvote against the party. If it gets close at the end, you get them to switch their votes. Of course, the minority party is doing the same thing even though they know they are going to lose in order to embarrass the majority. LBJ used to be a master of this when he was majority leader in the Senate. It is why both parties elect "whips" to strategically control the voting for political gain. If Barney Franks is selected to be the Democratic voice on something, it means we have lost and just want to make some noise. This is without passing judgement on the relative "badness" of the bill.

[Cheswick2.0]

4. Barney Frank speaking now

and some republican is trying to shut him up.

[MallRat]

5. Only 30 minutes? That's not bad by GOP standards.

To squeeze the Medicare fiasco through, Hastert kept a 15-minute vote open for 3 HOURS. During that time, House Republican leadership had sufficient opportunity to plead, cajole, and oh yeah... THREATEN AND BRIBE ITS OWN PARTY MEMBERS to vote YES:

Group asks Justice Department to investigate alleged bribe attempt in Medicare vote
Thursday, December 4, 2003

The Justice Department said Thursday it would review complaints from political watchdog groups that Republican House leaders tried to bribe Rep. Nick Smith, R-Mich., to vote for a Medicare bill.

Smith voted against the bill despite what he described as threats against his son, Brad Smith, who is running for the House seat his father is vacating next year.

Nick Smith said his own party's leaders offered money for his son's campaign if he voted for the bill and that they threatened to support other GOP candidates for the seat if the congressman voted against the legislation.

"Bribes and special deals were offered to convince members to vote yes," Smith wrote in a Nov. 23 newspaper column.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2003/12/04/national1939EST0800.DTL&type=printable

[Cheswick2.0]

8. I have to admire Nick Smith for his stand against that type of abuse

I hope that the democrats don't play such games when they get back the majority.....but they most likely will.

[GiovanniC]

12. Smith Kept Changing His Story

And ended up covering for the GOP in the end. He's my Representative, and he's a dirtbag.

"No one can have a higher opinion of him than I have, and I think he's a dirty little beast."
-- W. S. Gilbert

[MallRat]

14. I've thought long and hard about that. And I've decided...

(rage)

FUCK THE GOP. They will reap what they've sown.

If Kerry wins and we take control of the Senate, I would be in complete favor of completely marginalizing, bullying, ignoring, humiliating, obstructing, persecuting, investigating, subpoenaing, prosecuting, censuring, and politically pounding the entire Republican Senate leadership into Daschle-like submission.

Once they've been on the receiving end of this kind of treatment, maybe they'll rethink the abuse they've heaped on the Democrats for the past 4 years.

(/rage)

-MR

[YellowRubberDuckie]

18. Here! HERE!

And it needs to be done!! Everytime the fucking GOP takes over the senate, our economy goes to hell.
Duckie

[theHandpuppet]

6. And here are the four Repugs...

... in Dems' clothing who supported this shredding of our Constitutional rights:

Reps. Stenholm, (Lamar) Smith and (Chet) Edwards from Texas and Jane Harman from California.

Stenholm also joined a number of Repugs to co-sponsor the anti-gay Federal Marriage Amendment.

Okay, you Texas and California Dems -- will these Representatives hear from you?

[Cheswick2.0]

7. wow....democracy is happening

The guy acting as president took a voice vote. The democrats obviously won the voice vote, he called it the other way and Barny Frank objected and forced an electronic vote due to absence of a quorum.

[DaveSZ]

9. Lamar Smith is a Rethuglican

:puke:

[theHandpuppet]

20. I stand corrected

Thanks! BTW, here's a peek at Rep "Snuffy" Smith: http://lamarsmith.house.gov/bio.asp

[RoeBear]

11. Off topic but...

...is there a story behind the pic you post?

[Cheswick2.0]

25. it was a picture that accompanied an article about Dean

in a new york paper. I forget which one. One point in the article was about Dean appearing in places people don't expect to see him and the reaction he gets.

[KharmaTrain]

13. Democrats Have Used This Tactic, Too...

It was a fave of Tip O'Neill...he's sneak in a quick bill to tweak Raygun; catching the GOOPers by surprise and if he didn't get his quorum, he'd hold the vote open until he got his votes. I'll bet Sam Rayburn and others have been perfecting this quirk for generations.

Many here don't remember the days when the Democrats controlled the House...it was a lot different (and far more boring) place than it is today, but a lot of the tricks the Repugnicans pull are ones they learned from 40 years of Democratic control. Forget about reforming this...just control it.

Looks like the Dems are out in force today...and what's the deal with Harmon? I thought she had a pair.

[porphyrian]

15. Now They're Pissed...?

Where the fuck have they been for the last four years?

[hatrack]

19. And now they're going to roll on the floor and scream, one supposes?

Thank you for nailing the first thing to cross my mind when I saw this headline - NOW they're "angry"? So what? So what are they going to DO about it?

[porphyrian]

34. Maybe they'll throw a tantrum before handing the next war to Bush. - n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

27. complete non point

are you suggesting that this is the first time the democrats have acted in opposition in congress. That is a common complaint, but hardly true.

[porphyrian]

32. Whatever, Ches

I'll just get deleted if I disagree with you anyway.

[GiovanniC]

16. Correct -- Library/Bookstores

Forced to turn over records telling the government what you're READING. If that's not a thought crime --

Meanwhile, the Republicans made their case for the provision twofold:

(1) The bookstore/library provision has never been used; and
(2) The bookstore/library provision is absolutely vital to national security.

[MUSTANG_2004]

33. Turning over what you're reading

Actually, libraries and bookstores could already be forced to turn over what you read, through subpoenas. My understanding is that the difference with the Patriot Act is that now they're not allowed to tell you that your information was turned over.

The only response to this that comes to mind is:
1) Librarians who oppose this should keep records of who checks what books out. There's no reason they can't clear the transaction once the book is returned. This would mean they have no information to subpoena.
2) When buying books, pay with cash. Then nobody knows what you're reading. The only drawback to number 2 is those of us who use on-line stores like Amazon that require credit cards.

[Jack Rabbit]

17. The GOP showed its fascist face yesterday

It is unlikely that I, personally, will ever get information about federal agents conducting a Patriot Act investigation by looking into a suspect's library records. However, if I do, I will violate the Patriot Act by making that information public.

These provisions of the Patriot Act are less about fighting terrorism than accommodating an incompetent and racist Attorney General who doesn't know how to prosecute real terrorists and finds it easier to lock up a suspect without charges or contact with the outside world and throw away the key.

The Patriot Act is tyranny. Civil disobedience is the proper response to this abomination.

[underpants]

21. George Miller of Ca. just called it the "Republican Dictatorship"

Bam!

[Jack Rabbit]

30. It is pretty incredible

In order to give federal agents the "right" to see what you and I have checked out of the library, they stretched parliamentary rules and threatened the veto of an appropriations measure.

Since we are having a election coming up, assuming it isn't fixed (which may be assuming too much), it may be a little harsh to call this a dictatorship. On the other hand, it is really starting to look like a banana republic with all the trappings. Bush still sits in the White House because the Florida election was rigged, he is throwing contracts to his cronies, he even went to war for what appears to be no better reason than to provide them business opportunities and the assault on civil liberties that is the Patriot Act.

[Q]

22. They were 'pissed' and ranted last time the Right did this to them...

...and they did nothing about it last time...either.

- I just don't understand this attitude of the Democratic leadership: bitch but do nothing about it. It's not as if the GOPers have an overwhelming majority. If Democrats really wanted to do something about this...they would rise up and fight it.

[Cheswick2.0]

28. what could they do except protest?

What do you suggest?

[Norquist Nemesis]

23. Honest question.

Okay...just ramblin on here but dammit!

I know we all get pissed at them for "doing nothing". But, honestly, what is it that Dems CAN do? They're in the minority and have been hammered down and silenced time and again.

I'm not suggesting they should just give up or anything like that. But other than speaking out as they have been, what can they do? This is the most frustration and aggravating part of the whole thing to me. When I see comments about them "doing nothing" I just don't think that's the case at all.

Yes, there are times when there's not as much unity in speaking out as I would like to see. No, I don't think they should be given a pass either. But I also think there are times that the powers that be using everything they've got (including and most importantly the media) that Dems are at best marginalized and at worst not even recognized.

Do I have answers/solutions? Not really. Republican tactics are second nature to them and make no mistake...good at how they do it. It's a well-oiled fucking machine!

[Q]

26. Issuing a press release and giving a few speeches...

...is not exactly what I would call 'speaking out'. They register their complains and then go on with business as usual: giving the Bush* admin. anything they want.

- Democrats never make the NeoRepublicans suffer any kind of consequences for their corruption and deceit. I'm sorry...but simply saying that the Republicans are 'bad' doesn't cut it for those who are suppose to be defending the Constitution and representing the people.

- Being in the minority party has never stopped the Republicans from demanding and getting hearings, investigations and accountability.

[hatrack]

31. How about exerting some party discipline?

For example, refusing to vote in favor of district-specific pork for members who opposed them on this?

For example, refusing committee assignment requests or reshuffling committee assignments?

For example, withholding party funding from House members who double-cross the Democrats on this, or suddenly uncovering "scheduling conflicts" for Sens. Kerry & Edwards & other fundraising draws come campaign season when these people are up for reelection?

Showing that there are consequences for certain actions would certainly be a step in the right direction.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. The GOP in the House has done this before...check the records.

[Cheswick2.0]

29. I already know that they have done it before

no need to check the records.