Regarding the FMA, From One Angry Lesbian

[Plaid Adder]

I called both my senators this morning. Lugar I got through to; Bayh's phone is busy. I bet he took it off the hook, the weasel. What a fucking useless piece of DINO waffling crap he is.

I am so sick of being a wedge issue. I was talking to my dad about this in the car last weekend and I think I stunned him with the intensity of my outrage. Like many a well meaning straight person, he runs around thinking, well, it would be nice if they coudl marry I suppose but really they do just fine without it. Well, that's not what the FMA is about, people.

The Federal Marriage Amendment is an attempt to build discrimination against GBLT Americans into the Constitution. If it passes it will be the first time in history (unless you count Prohibition, which was later repealed) that the Constitution has been amended specifically to *restrict* the rights of a particular minority population. Would YOU want to be a member of the first group to have that happen to them in this country? No, you would not. And neither do we.

After a long time ranting about what this stupid amendment really means, I finally told my father that I will take it personally if any member of my family votes for George Bush. He and my brother are both lifetime Republicans and both voted for him in 2000. My father has said that he's not sure who he'll vote for but he keeps refusing to acknowledge that Kerry might be a good alternative. He admitted that the right-wing fundie Left Behind bullshit scares him too, although I think he's more worried about the Iraq war. He thinks the economy is coming around; I think he's wrong, but whatever.

I've never thrown down the gauntlet about things like this before, but God dammit, if my own flesh and blood is going to bring that asshole in for another four years just to see if he can get it to the point where people are hunting us in the streets with torches and pitchforks, then what the hell is the point of filial affection?

And if Kerry votes for this thing, I do not know what I am going to do. I don't care whether he supports gay marriage or not; but if he votes for this damn thing, then I know for sure that it won't matter because we're eventually moving to Canada. I don't want to leave this country, and it would probably involve ending my career, but damn it all, I am so frigging SICK of this CRAP every election cycle, and my partner is sick of it too.

Straight people who don't get why we're pissed off about this, here's the plainest way I can put it: The premise behind the FMA is ultimately that allowing us to legally solemnize our relationships will destroy civilization. Can you imagine what it's like to have to listen to this day in and day out? When you got married to your spouse, did you have people on TV telling you that what you had just done was a sign of the Apocalypse and would accelerate the rot of everything that is good and true about American culture? Would you enjoy having people debating in magazines, on TV, on the net, on the talk shows, whether or not allowing you to marry the person you love is going to hurt the entire country? No, you would not; and neither do we.

I've been with the same woman for fifteen years. All I want out of life is to be a good partner to her and to make each other happy enough so we can share that happiness with the rest of the people we touch. I would like to be able to marry her. I can live without it if I have to. What I CANNOT @#$! STAND is being told that what we're doing together is so vile, disgusting, and antisocial that acknowledging it even at the state level would weaken American society. And that's what a vote for the FMA says.

I met with my congressman as part of a delegation about this a few months ago. He said that in his opinion, the Republicans don't even expect the FMA to pass; they just want to get political mileage out of it during the election cycle. The timing of this vote certainly suggests that that's their primary motivation. But I don't think we can count on it not passing. This is a crazy friggin' world, and politicians of all stripes have always been terrified of doing *anything* that might seem like standing up for gay rights.

So, I've hounded the three people who represent me as much as I can and I can do no more. I count on you, my DU brethren and sistren, to do what you can. I mean we are either a democracy or a Christian theocracy, and we just better sort that out right now before anything worse happens.

Thanks in advance,

The Plaid Adder

[SpiralHawk]

1. This is an opportunity for Kerry to lead

He should rally the Senate opposition.

Take a stand. Now.

[Neecy]

2. I'm angry, too

I'm fucking tired of being thrown out as chum in right-wing infested waters so the Republicans can further divide this country.

If I only get half of the full benefits of American citizenship, does this mean I only need to pay 50% of my taxes? Do I get a 'discrimination' write off?

I've been watching the Senate 'debate' this morning and I'm so sick of these assholes from Utah and Alabama - states that suck our tax money down like Jack Daniels - try to dictate what the rest of the country should act and do. If they want another civil war, they're well on the road.

Since we're now at war with the world, the Republicans look to devouring their own. Rather than unite us as citizens - especially in light of these dire warnings they're strategically placing - it's more of the same shit. I'm not a wedge issue, I'm a human being. I'm sick of being played like a card every damn election cycle.

Fed up? Doesn't even begin to describe it.

[Q3JR4]

3. I've emailed my senators on this issue,

but I read in the paper this morning that both support it and have even signed on as cosponsors (big surprise being from Idaho and all).

At this moment in time, I'm with you. Luckily for me, though, most of my family is voting Dem this cycle. Not because of anything that Bush has done, but because that's what they always do.

I know not much to report, but I'm with you. If the Dems in congress can't stand up for us, why should we continue to stay here? Canada is looking pretty good to me at the moment as well.

************
On edit:
If a civil war breaks out, I can tell you that I'll be the first one here on the front lines to fight the neo-conservative theocratic fascists....no matter where I happen to be at the time.

[Cats Against Frist]

4. Sing it.

"I mean we are either a democracy or a Christian theocracy, and we just better sort that out right now before anything worse happens."

Thank you. That's what I actually want -- for it to be put in that simple of terms. Are we going to legislate according to Christianity, or not -- not entangle it up with some other narrative about nationalism, and some constructed hooey about the individual family home.

The sooner the discussion gets to this point, the better.

Your post really helped me understand from a GLBT point of view. This whole thing makes me sad and angry. Not just because I support gay rights, but because I don't support many of the Grand American Narrative constructs and the hierarchy of values that they create.

[VelmaD]

5. I am so sorry this is happening to you

:hug:

I'm furious about this amendement but I know it's nothing compared to how angry you are. I hope you know that there are a lot of us out here that are 100% on your side on this issue.

:hug:

[chiburb]

7. What you said....n/t

.

[Eileen]

6. No Tears For the Widow.

The singer Judy Small is an Australian. An activist in the GL community, although she might object to the label, her music is well formed and her words often biting but difficult to ignore.

When the organized bigotry and attempt at denial of civil rights began this song came to mind. You can get copies of her disks on the net but probably won't have success if you search on the P2P file sharing sources. The words speak for themselves. Copy it and give it to your dad to discuss. He'll get the message.

No Tears For The Widow.

(Judy Small)

I never saw my mother cry until the night my father died

Married nearly thirty years and the dying had been hard

I remember how the family came to share the grief the tears the
pain

And how her friends all gathered round and all the black-rimmed
cards

The funeral was a large affair, the civic fathers all were there

And mother held up stoically, she never shed a tear

But everyone there understood that she had entered widow-hood

And life would never be the same, her status now was clear

And there were tears for the widow, tears for the widow

For the woman who had lost her love and must carry on alone

And mother now writes 'widow' in the space on all the forms

It's part of her identity, like her grey hair and her name

My friend Amelia lost her love to cancer's slow and painful glove

The dying was no easier than my father's was back then

No black-rimmed cards came to her door, her grief and anguish all ignored

Except of course for closest friends who tried to understand

Her lover was described by all as a single woman living well

A tragic loss for family, taken well before her time

When Amy left the funeral home she travelled to their house alone

And sat among familiar things and wept into the night

And there were no tears for the widow, no tears for the widow

For the woman who had lost her love and must carry on alone

And Amy still writes 'single' in the space on all the forms

But she rages at the lie it tells and the loss that it ignores

And who can tell how many women live their lives in shadows

Unrecognised, unsympathised, unseen and disallowed

Who've lost not only lovers, but often hearth and home

For 'marriage' is a special word and only meant for some

And there are no tears for the widows, no tears for the widows

For the women who've lost lovers and must carry on alone

And life goes on but for them there is no space on any form

Yes 'marriage' is a special word and only meant for some

---

Eileen

[jukes]

8. The Plaid Adder

a lot of us straights feel much the same as you do. while it's true that i can't feel quite as personally victimized as you, i'm still outraged that it can even be used as political currency. and, o/c, we've got to wonder which group will be singled out next.

i hope kerry will feature his rejection of this odious message as a plank; those who wd be swayed against him by that stance are already against him. i think many undecided would agree w/that stance & might be convinced to vote for kerry.

i even believe some fiscal republicans, sickened by the highjack of their party by extremists & fundamentalist dark-ages proponents, might be persuaded,

just a sugg for your family: if they can't bring themselves to vote for kerry, perhaps they shd just abstain. that wd still be a positive for us.

props to you. we all love you. :pals:

[katym]

9. PP is going all out for it

I just got an email from Planned Parenthood (great for keeping up to date on actions about abortion, birth control, and the FMA).
For anyone that needs help contacting a senator, congressman, or otherwise, they can help.
I tried here, but can't get ahold of anyone on the phone. Yay for email.

[TexasProgressive]

10. Adder, I Feel Your Rage

Nice post. Thanks. I've been feeling like my head was going to pop right off over this issue, and frankly, I've surprised myself and others with the level of outrage that I'm feeling.

I just sent a co-worker a link to your post. He's a straight guy, and was expressing some discomfort with the notion of outing people, and I kind of blew up. In the instance of closeted politicians who support the FMA, I'm all for outing them. I'm not sure my co-worker friend expected such vehemence from me.

Thanks again for another great post.

[2Design]

11. Virginia senator George Allen sent back note...he is co sponsor

Virginia is for haters....don't spend money in this state. Don't vacation here....because they passed a law that revokes any contracts you have about partners, child, or property....it will go to the state... not a partner....

The governor opposed the amendment but could not stop it... these are hateful people here....

I am sorry...writing discrimination into LAW ...will surely earn them HELL from their GOD.....because CHRIST was not like that....

[Plaid Adder]

13. Hilarious Virginia story

A friend of mine from PA called up some Virginia tourist bureau to ask if it would be legal for her and her partner to have "copious, hot lesbian sex" while visiting their state. The woman said she would have to check on that. My friend told her that was enough, she's taking her kids, her partner, and all their money somewhere else.

I just love the "copious, hot" part. Like the answer could turn to to be, "I'm sorry, we only allow scanty, tepid lesbian sex."

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[2Design]

14. that is funny...all gay/lesbians should call tourism dept and governor

and let them know they are taking their tourist dollars somewhere else..

the stupid senator is started this was on the news...saying it wouldn't affect anything and that it reflected peoples values....

I would much rather have a bunch of gays at our ocean front than the types that come, like july 4 and shoot each other on the street..because they bumped into each other....

they have no idea what they are doing....the new fields are creative and some of the most creative people are gay.....

thanks for funny story...

I am looking at leaving the state because of the senators and people who are repubs.....

never thought I could detest people because of the party..

I have a best friend who is repub...and it has put a strain...it is hard to like someone who is voting against your best interest....

and I am not gay...but support the constitution as written...it has taken a long time to get the freedoms it promises...and women still don't have what they should have....

[Wind Dancer]

12. Plaid Adder,

Excellent post! I am as outraged with this issue as you - my close family member is gay and has been discriminated against all of his life. As a straight person witnessing the horror you face everyday, I am ashamed at the American society and what it has come to represent.

I have lost long time friends over this issue and refuse to support or pretend to agree with people that claim religion opposes homosexuality. I have seen first hand how religious fanatics have caused so much pain in others with a different viewpoint. I am so angry at this country and how we treat our fellow man, regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation. I had to turn off C-Span today and I will continue to fight on your behalf.

We can't give up, we must always stand proudly for who we are and what we believe in, we must continue the fight. This country is not a democracy now, the Government has made that very clear.

[gator_in_Ontario]

15. Great post

Plaid Adder.
I am an American legally married to a Canadian woman...in Canada anyway. Same sex marriage has been legal here in Ontario for over a year, and you know what? The sky has not fallen, in fact Ontario is doing just fine! Straight people are still getting married, having kids, going to church and everything! We haven't ruined marriage at all.
When we visit the States together, though we revert to being 'perverts' to many, 'roomates' to those who have a problem thinking of us any other way (although they know better)...wives (which is the reality)to a very few enlightened people.
I will continue to do what I can to fight the ignorance of some of my fellow citizens....

[trof]

16. It's not possible to apologize for someone else.

Jeff Sessions is such a personal and painful embarrasment to me.
Shelby isn't much better.
I'm doing all I can to register new Dem voters, but I know it's an uphill battle to get rid of Sessions.

I think you and NSMA have helped me to understand, more than anyone else, and for that you should both feel proud and good.

I don't think the FMA is a slam dunk, by any means.
But even the fact that it's being debated is infuriating.
In the meantime, keep on keepin' on.
:grouphug:

[nostamj]

17. it's just plain DISGUSTING

listening to these pukes evoke "democracy" (meaning, a majority is fine with this, so let's do it)

[geniph]

18. Kerry would never vote for the FMA,

remember, he voted against DOMA. I wish he'd just have the courage of his convictions and state firmly that the United States Constitution does not permit organized bigotry, but I think he's getting bogus poll-based advice from his campaign heads. But we in the LGBT community (hey, somebody's got to represent the B!) need to keep his feet to the fire, and remember that with Kerry, at least we'll have a voice and a seat at the table. Under the Republichristifascisti, we're not even allowed in the cheneying building and our voices are silenced.

I'm a member of the LGBT caucus at the Democratic National Convention, and believe me, the topic of getting Kerry to take a firm stand on this will be a hot one. None of us will back down on the FMA, I can assure you of that. I should have opportunities to speak to my state's representatives at the convention, and they'll all hear my viewpoint on the FMA. Enshrining discrimination in the Constitution is un-American.

[chiburb]

19. I want to change my answer...

I've been thinking about what you wrote, and an earlier piece that I think was a front page column of yours.

I'm just a normal(?), middle-aged, straight white guy who's basic philosophy on this subject has been "live and let live". But I haven't felt any outrage, haven't felt compelled to write letters or carry protest signs in a demonstration, nor even felt a need to argue your cause with others.

But now...

By supporting you passively only, I'm not just hurting you. I'm hurting myself and the whole country. If FMA passes, what's the next discriminatory clause to be added to the Constitution? Who will be the next group targeted? Atheists? Uh-oh, I better not call on my G/L/B/T for help because where was I when it was "their" issue?

Bottom line, while you may think you were preaching to the choir in your OP, maybe you weren't. Maybe others weren't really converted yet. But know this: here's one guy whose eyes have been opened by what you wrote. Don't thank me for calling my Senators (which I've just done), I thank YOU for making me a better citizen.

[Plaid Adder]

20. Aww. The cockles of my heart are all warm and toasty.

I do really appreciate the support of you and all the other straight DUers who understand what is at stake here. And I know it probably is not obvious to everyone why the FMA is as important to us as it is.

Incidentally, the piece you're talking about was my first ever regular column here at DU. Here's a link:

"They Hate Us For Our Freedoms":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/plaidder/03/01.html

And, what the hell, here are links to my other gay-marriage-related columns:

"Eight Simple Rules (for not getting your ass kicked)":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/plaidder/03/05.html

"The Pursuit of Happiness":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/plaidder/04/13.html

And a piece I wrote up about Santorum's real agenda that never got used:

http://www.plaidder.com/crit.htm

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[rob-ok-vin]

21. OKlahoma is voting in Nov.

They are trying to get it on ballot for november in Okla to make it un-consitutional in this state for same sex marriage. It seems to be the banner for all the Christian conservatives to wave right now.

[AngryLizard]

24. I'm in of an inter-racial marraige

And they used to say the same thing about inter-racial relationships being the end of civilization as well. It's all bullshit. Love is love, relationships are relationships and how anyone in this day can go on and on about the sanctity of heterosexual marriage when the divorce rate is at 50% is just beyond me. I think heterosexuals are doing a better job at destroying the sanctity of marriage than homosexuals ever could.

Bottom Line: It's a civil rights issue, plain and simple. I don't give a rat's ass what anyone else says.

[Ivan Zero]

22. Straight solidarity is vital

Because the FMA forces won't stop after they get through with the GLBT community. All us straights who don't fit their narrow definition of normal will be next in line, and the more they win, the more emboldened they become.

After all, in the big picture, this isn't just about the freedom to love who you want. It's also about the freedom to BE who you want.

[catrose]

23. You rock, Plaidder

I'll certainly contact my senators, but every elected official in Texas is Republican--though Kay Bailey etc. DID vote against that nasty Arkansas judge last week. What a surprise.

Yes, we have to stop this. Remember the WWII-ish screed. "They came for the Jews, but I wasn't a Jew..." Well, they're coming for the gays, and just because you're not gay doesn't mean you're not on their list. They just haven't reached that part of the list yet.

Our other senator, Cornyn, recently wrote an editorial about all the amendments he's sponsoring. So while you're dissing the FMA, give the others a kick as well:
1. Flag burning. With everything this country needs, do we really need to spend time on this.
2. Some sort of emergency provision for leadership in times of crisis. I thought we already had that: Pres, VP, Speaker, SoS and down through the cabinet. (Though with the current lineup, each option is worse than the last.) But see, this amendment would call ex-Presidents back into service in the event that terrorists should decimate our government. Currently, exes Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford are specified as the understudy leaders. Of course, they won't live forever, and a rapid review of ex and about-to-be ex-Presidents might be a sobering exercise. It sounds to my suspicious lil mind like a way to put unelected leaders in office for an unspecified amount of time. And John Cornyn sponsors it. Just that's enough for me.

Looking forward to dancing at your wedding, Plaidder.

[CEDEVLvg]

25. Bottom Line...

...this is what the Southern Baptists want, and they control Congress and the nation now. You can scream all you want and nothing will change. They won. It's over, at least for now.

We have some real problems in the party.

Union membership is down to ten percent of the population and most of those people are employees of the Big Three auto companies...all of whom are suffering from declining market share. Those dollars are going mostly to the Japanese...none of whom are unionized. Toyota is said to be so flush with cash right now that it is selling the Prius at below cost to get people used to hybrid technology. It's a $40000 car that sells for $25000 sticker price. How do Ford and Chevy compete with that? They don't. It's one of the reasons for Oldsmobile going out of business. Buick will be next, and possibly Ford after that.

The only resolution I see is for the Democratic party to realign and moderate its position on social issues. If you want Alpharetta, Georgia or Plano, Texas to vote for you - this is what it takes.

They'll do it or the party will die. That's a fact.

[Brian_Expat]

37. If you "moderate" on social issues by supporting FMA

You can forget having my vote for your party in ANY election.

I'll happily (and spitefully) vote for Nader and you can enjoy four more years of George W. Bush along with the rest of us.

Evil, you say? Perhaps, but selling me and my community out for political power is also evil. Sauce for the goose is also good for the gander.

[Jokerman]

26. Although I'm not gay, I share your outrage.

And as another Indiana resident, I share your opinion of our sorry-excuse-for-a-democrat senator Bayh.

No one who supports FMA will ever get my vote.

[CEDEVLvg]

34. Problem Is...

...they don't need your vote, with all those southern suburban Evangelicals running around. Dallas is loaded with them.

Consider expatriation, especially if you're in one of those career fields whose employment base is being exported anyway. There are tons of websites dedicated to supporting Americans living in Scotland, Ireland, France and Australia. It's big and getting bigger.

I'm not gonna live in a country that's governed by hillbillies.

[bear425]

27. I called my senator today, too

Bill Nelson. I am angry, too. Orrin Hatch today, on the senate floor, stressed that this is not a political ploy pandering to the right. Yeah, right.

Funny, my partner and I have discussed moving to Canada, too. Amsterdam is a little better, but just as friggin' cold. Isn't it ridiculous that we citizens, in the land of the "free", have to consider moving to another country to escape persecution?

Good luck to us all...

[CEDEVLvg]

29. Frankly...

I think we're destined for some flavor of civil unrest.

My wife and I talk about this all the time, and so did her late father and many older people I know.

This presidential race will continue to be close, but the Electoral College will kick in and Bush will be saved by the South. That's what the system was designed to do.

All hell's gonna break loose. I don't see any way out of it now.

[The Doctor.]

28. I hope Society Grows up

I am a what might be considered a moderate Republican, NONE of the people in this administration hold my values with maybe a few exceptions. Allow me to edify- The Republican party USED to be the party of equal rights- that was the 1st platform they ran on.
There is NO question that an amendment banning 'gay' marriage (I think marriage should just be called marriage) is against everything that I stand for.
I routinely debate conservatives and or 'republicans' on a number of issues; sometimes as Devil's advocate, but mostly because many of my contemporaries are clueless.

This is my favorite argument to break their perception of sexual orientation being unnatural.

(assuming a male subject)

Me- "So tell me, do you remember the first time you saw a girl and your heart raced?"
Him- "I'll never forget- her name was Betty-Sue, she was playing jump-rope and wearin' a blue dress." (everyone remembers some variation of this thread.)
Me- "how old were you?"
Him-"I was about eight" (almost always pre-teen)
Me- "Why did you decide to feel that way?"
Him- "I didn't have to decide, I just did."
Me - "Well what if you were looking at a boy the first time that happened?"
(The more closed minded the subject- the shorter the thoughtful pause.)
Him- "That wouldn't have happened."
Me- "But you say you had no choice in the matter... guess you're just lucky?"

At this point I sometimes lose a friend I probably don't need, but they never are able to shake the notion unless they are a true ignoramus.
If anyone has a better argument for opening eyes- I'd love to hear it.

Meanwhile Plaid- I support your plight and you can take heart that there are real thinking people out there who do as well... regardless of what their registration card says.

I truly hope we get rid of the pretender in the White House. He's not good for ANY American. (unless you're an oil magnate)

-Dr. E.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Virginia is for Haters.

I'm fortunate in that I live in a section of the USA that is relatively tolerant. Fortunately we have politicians, like Gavin Newsom, who are willing to stand up and say that this is a civil rights issue. For the record, I'm straight, but I firmly believe that love is love and if two folks of the same gender want to get married, I have about as much right to tell them they "can't" as they have to tell me who I can or can't marry.

On the plus side, although it is sickening how the GOP is using this as a wedge issue, you have had an elevation of the issue in the public's mind. The percentage of folks who see this as a basic civil rights issue has dramatically increased just in the past 5 years or 10 years, when most politicians wouldn't even broach the idea of "gay marriage" and civil unions were generally considered radical. I don't mean to sound Pollyannaish but I do believe that public opinion is trending in a positive direction on this stuff. Doesn't change the bedrock fact that the current situation sucks, in many places. And I won't be vacationing in Virginia any time soon, not that I was going to anyway... ;)

[Malva Zebrina]

31. No single issues will be addressed by Kerry

Bush will address faith based charithy stuff and he has the bully pulpiut on that. It can only be refuted by others in a powerful position in any one particular religion.

If they need the money, they will not refute this unconstitutional idea. Yup, all hands will be out there beggging for the money from the government. It is welfare, really, although that concept is anathema to many who support a Republican point of view.

We will ll be cajoled into implementing magical thinking because the candidates are intent upon keeping their real intentions from us

The idea is, you see, to NOT take a firm stand on ANYTHING

that way, my dear, you are then "electable"

I have lost an enthusiasm for this type of a con game.

I will vote to get Bush out, but, I am not sure that Kerry is the one I want to run the country either, although he will , incredibly, get my vote.

Is that not an incredible and unbelievable postion for a citizen and a voter in this great democracy, to take?

and what, I think, or imagine, is next, should Kerry win is simply more magical thinking.

Does anyone really know? NO they do not

Is that any way to run an election in a democracy? With the voter not sure of what he or she is actually votin for, but is sure indeed what he or she is voting against?

Indeed, in this, the foremost democracy in the world we are subjected to this forcing of a vote against, rather than "for"


Heh, of course the answer is a resounding no.

Why is it that we are forced to vote for someone whose policies we do not know, or are not sure of?

Why must we take into consideration that the "spin" from our candidate is only election year politics. to be ignored and sloughed off as political rhetoric and why cannot we beleive what the candidate says is the truth but need to assign some mysterious hidden meaning to them because , after all, we know, through our tarot cards or some other magic, that what he says is not what he means. And if we are smart, we would know that.

Because thse system is broken, that is why.

[rob-ok-vin]

32. SAD BUT TRUE

This is so sad and so true. I feel so helpless and hopeless as i read this and all I seem to be able to do is sadly shake my head.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Well, you could look at it this way..

You're hitch-hiking, and you need a ride. Now.

There's only two choices, on this highway at least.

One car is headed, vaguely, in the direction you want to go. The driver seems like a decent guy, is smart, articulate, and has a good driving record. He's probably not going to take you right to the doorstep of where you want to go, no, but it's a safe bet that you'll be a good site closer to there when he lets you off.

The other car is driven by a drunken maniac whose every word out of his mouth to you is a bald-faced lie. To boot, it's obvious he's about to drive the car right off a cliff.

Yeah, it's a choice, and yeah, it's not ideal.

Yeah, I would like it if Kerry would stand up and say "Gay Marriage is a fundamental right and I support it because it's the right thing to do".. I also wish that we lived in a country where doing so, at least this year, wasn't electoral suicide.

There are plenty of issues I wish the Democrats would grow some cajones on. I think it's outrageous we spend $400 Billion Dollars a year on a wasteful and insane "drug war" that gives us little in return except a incarceration rate for non-violent offenders that is unequalled in the developed world. Democrats, fearful of 30 second soundbites containing the words "soft on crime", are notoriously ineffectual on that pressing issue. I also think we're wasting billions of dollars, and untold amounts of blood, in Iraq, and I realize President Kerry isn't going to get us out right away, either. Magic Thinking... Is Kerry going to be able to magically reverse the drastic increase in CO2 Levels that is certainly affecting global climate change? No, certainly not. But I do believe that a Kerry presidency is an important step in the direction I want to go, and I want this nation, and planet to go. Obviously we're not going to get there overnight. You think Bush doesn't do the same thing, nor do his extremist supporters? I don't think too many Pat Robertson goons and Christian Reconstructionists truly believe that they will achieve their fantasies of banning all birth control, say, or putting people in jail for having gay sex or owning vibrators or looking at pictures of naked ladies or blaspheming the name of our lord and savior.. No, or at least not in the next four years. But they understand that Bush is out there working for them, and their extremist, theocratic agenda.. Even though he pays minimal lip service to being some kind of "compassionate conservative".

Bottom line? Yeah, it sucks. But I think Kerry's a good man, we could do far worse, and I personally think that before you think about flying the Airplane to Hawaii, you have to take it off the course that's flying it straight into the side of the mountain.

[axollot]

38. you said...

"I think it's outrageous we spend $400 Billion Dollars a year on a wasteful and insane "drug war" that gives us little in return except a incarceration rate for non-violent offenders that is unequalled in the developed world."

<snip>

I wish I could remember where I heard this. However, I cannot but I am going to use it anyway.

"We are losing the war on drugs - to people on drugs.
what does that say to you?"

We defiantly need to look at ourselves here and figure out why so many people are getting locked up. It doesn't help that anything you own the government can seize if they bust you for drugs. Sounds a little shady to me. Our prison system is out of control, loaded with people who shouldn't even be there and the sex offenders get to leave early WTF?!?
This country is anal about keeping marijuana illegal at all costs. I don't get it.

[Snow]

35. So did you get some sort of meaningfull response from Lugar?

I'd be curious to know what it is. I lived in Indianapolis from 1946 - 1949 and again from 1959 to 1970, still visit family occassionally. Dick Lugar started in politics running for the school board against my dad, and we gained a lot of respect for him then, and again when he was mayor. Conservative, no question about it, but a decent man of solid integrity was what I always sensed. I'd be very disappointed if he is supporting this travesty.

[Brian_Expat]

36. Thank you for expressing this so clearly and simply

If the Federal Marriage Amendment was passed, I would not return to the US, but remain in Britain permanently.

[Sweetpea]

39. If Kerry votes for this, I will move.......................

[Nobody]

40. Committed couples like you and your partner ARE the fabric of society

And it's the rabid right wing Republicans that are so insecure in their own marriages. They don't look to you as an example to follow, they see you as the enemy because you have what they'll never have: true love. They are so comsumed by envy that they seek to tear apart what other people have.

[Blue_Roses]

41. I got "attacked" by a right-winger at

the gym who told me if we want to keep the "morality" in the country then vote for Bush. Immediately, I said "nope," had him for a governor and he was a horrible governor then, not to mention the nightmare he is now. He told me "homosexual marriage" is a sin and it goes against God's commandments. I said, "since we are talking about commandments, lets remember the one that says 'thou shalt not steal,' and "thou shalt not bear false witness against thou neighbor.'" He went silent and then said " I can talk scripture if you want." I told him, "I was raised southern baptist and know all too well the 'scriptures' he wanted to use to propogate his case."

For a "christian" he reeked of the most vile, mean-spirited, cold heart. I told him the Jesus that I had grown to know and love NEVER would have approached this with such hate as the Republican right-wingers do. He thinks the Democrats have kept the blacks stuck in oppression and feels that welfare reform is necessary. We also had the abortion talk as well. The typical right-wing talking points...what a waste of breathing air...why do I bother to try...:eyes: