Good Christian Family Values

[Taverner]

Affidavit: Children made to dig own graves

Friday, July 9, 2004 Posted: 9:22 AM EDT (1322 GMT)


TRENTON, Tennessee (AP) -- A couple facing criminal abuse charges forced some of their 18 foster, adopted and biological children -- many of them disabled -- to dig their own graves, warning the youngsters they could be killed and nobody would care, according to investigative documents.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/07/09/foster.parents.abuse.ap/index.html

Folks, this is what we're up against - chances are the Freepers are crowing on how this couple is framed...but the CNN article fails to mention this couple was REALLY involved in the Fundamentalist Christian Community.

[Bertha Venation]

1. The article doesn't mention anything at all about religion. So where

do you get that they were "REALLY involved in the Fundamentalist Christian Community?"

[Taverner]

3. Another article that I can't find right now :(

I've been following this story a while, and when it first broke it mentioned that they were very religous. I'd post the link but I literally go through thousands of storys per week.

I'll post when I can tho...

[Az]

2. Source for Christian reference please

[kayell]

4. Here's one

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/30/national/main626789.shtml

(AP) A little more than a year after Tom and Debbie Schmitz were profiled in heartwarming news stories as religious, caring foster parents, 18 children have been removed from their home amid charges of abuse and neglect.

snip

Last year, several news organizations, including The Associated Press, produced feature stories about the couple. Debbie Schmitz stayed in the home with the children, while Tom Schmitz was a salesman for a company that rents portable toilets.

Debbie Schmitz told the AP then that she felt a religious calling to care for youngsters. Those in her care at the time included a 4-year-old girl with Down syndrome, a 2-year-old boy with deformities and medical problems, and older children from China and Vietnam.


going to google original story

Got it
http://www.oakridger.com/stories/051403/stt_20030514011.html

snip
The children who call the Schmitzes "Mom" and "Dad" are white, black, Hispanic, Korean, Vietnamese and Chinese. Most have special needs ‹ physically, emotionally or mentally. Some had mothers who were drug abusers. Some suffered physical abuse.

But to the Schmitzes, they are all the same.

They are God's children.
snip

Debbie says she always felt a special calling from the Lord to care for children in need. Soon, her family grew as word spread to state and privacy adoption agencies that the Schmitzes welcomed hard-to-place children.

snip

[Taverner]

6. Thanks...Still looking if I can find the orignan one

The church was either Pentacostal or Four Square...

[kayell]

7. Baptist

Hickory Grove Baptist Church, from above story

[Taverner]

10. DOH!

Dunno where I got Pentacostal or 4sq...

[Bertha Venation]

13. caution to all: don't choose too wide a brush

Don't generalize. The Schmitz's are bad people. Period. I wouldn't even call them Christians.

[Taverner]

14. Understood but....

I was raised in Fundie schools (and I'm aware you were too) and I can attest that this level of meanness and warped values is a product of fundamentalism. Remember when Christ said "by their fruits so shall they be known.."? That pretty much writes off Fundies to a tee - their hate system produces nothing but further hate and fear.

You're right - I wouldn't call them Christians and I probably wouldn't call them homo sapiens.

[Bertha Venation]

15. Yeah, I know that's how it can be in a fundy household.

OTOH, I wouldn't wish my upbringing on my worst enemy (who today is embodied by the senator from Pennsylvania, but that's another thread), and those who brought me up were not religious in the least.

Also OTOH, Mrs. V. was brought up by the most decent, loving, caring couple on the face of the earth, and they're Southern Baptists, born-again Bible-believing fundamentalist Christians.

These are among the reasons I offered that caution. I think we're basically on the same page, though.

[kayell]

16. I wouldn't call many people who call themselvesChristians Christians

since so many pursue a "lifestyle" so completely divorced from what the man apparently had to say. There are plenty of real Christians who practice following Christs teachings, but they aren't the ones ruling the airwaves.

[Az]

8. Thanks, didn't want to open the can of whoop if it was the wrong target

[elehhhhna]

9. Our adopted nephew

was 10 (now 15) when he was adopted out of foster care. His birth parents were druggies and his Grandma(who raised him) was well-meaning but mentally retarded and never sent him to school. He was raised like wildchild and is doing very well now, althougfh he still has LOTS of catching up to do.

The adopting parents visited the Fundie Baptist church in downstate Illinois and were shocked to find rods on sale there (to beat your kids with) as well as a "nursery" for the babies which was comprised of wooden cages, stacked on top of each other, where the babies could stay, unsupervised, for the duration of the 3 to four hour services. SICK.

[NightOwwl]

5. I hate freepers...

but I doubt anyone is supporting these wackos.

[Az]

11. Children are necissarily the primary target of dogmatic religions

It has to do with how we come to believe things. As we grow we develop our own sense of the world around us. We learn from teachers, parents, and mentors. We learn from day to day experiences. As we learn we take these lessons and mold them together to define the filters through which we see the world. Once enough of this filter is in place it becomes difficult to overcome.

If a childs development is built upon a liberal education complete with learning critical thinking skills it will be difficult for a belief system to find a foothold in their mind. Thus if a religion wants to gain access to them they will have to get to them before their mind has found its way.

Thus the fundimentalist religions have to get them before they are their own person. They promote adoption and foster care. They tirelessly push to gain access to the public schools. They seek to strike down anything that might prevent a mind from accepting their teachings.

[wadestock]

12. It's the tip of the iceberg....

My wife and I have met a number of weirdos....claiming to have been doing so good with home schooling....and when we meet their kids.....they look like they're zombies. This is not a generic statement against home schooling....be be wise that there are some pretty weird things going on these days with people trying to "separate themselves" from the reality of the cruel world that us liberals have created for them.

It wouldn't surprise me if these people did this "in the name of religious ideals".

We've seen the murder of children by mothers that say God told me to do it....and all sorts of other things that make this look like a walk in the park.

What is entirely insidious about the whole thing is it's bad enough when it's done behind closed doors....but give some national and even world wide recognition and the sense of empowerment to these people....and you've suddenly got yourself into all sorts of chit.

Perhaps a good reason for separation of church and state?

[tnlefty]

17. There are many troubling aspects to this story

Some (3 maybe) relatives of this woman had reported them to children's services while they were in Wisconsin. It bugs the hell out of me that nothing was detected from that state when they moved to TN.

The weirdest and the most frightening aspect of this to me is this part of a story from the abcnews website, from the LBN thread:

Apparently a nurse was in the home to help with the kids with disabilities:

The nurse was told "she could get a child through the Web site within three weeks and would not have to go through (Tennessee's) Dept. of Children's Services," said the affidavit filed by the Gibson County Sheriff's Dept.

What the hell is going on with this??? A reference to a web site that conjurs up images of nutcases passing kids around under the radar of the agencies who are supposed to be supervising their cases? Scary.