Compare and Contrast: Today with the '60's

[Snoggera]

Today, there is much anger and divisiveness. There is despair as I have not cognitively witnessed before. Today there is no in-between. If your sister is a repug freak, the likelihood is that you have nothing to do with her because to do so would only cause a battle. Today, one either sees the truth and is pissed, or sees the "light" and is blinded.

During the Vietnam War, there was extreme division, and there was a generation of young people taking to the streets, and everywhere else, in great numbers. It took many years for the anger and frustration to build, and for the numbers to grow. The media was less biased, and actually had some true journalists reporting on events without obvious political spin. Still, Nixon was re-elected in a landslide.

Today, due to the globalization of everything except (for now at least) our individual souls, reactions seem to come much faster and harder, but are they as long lasting or as deep-seated?

Will Bush be elected, not because of voter apathy (for certain), but because of some strange human need of which I am unaware?

How could Nixon have possibly been re-elected, much less elected in the first place? It was a time of mental, emotional, physical and spiritual freedom. Yet the country chose Nixon.

Today we have clouds hanging over the heads of everyone in this country due to mind manipulation and spiritual shackling.

What pieces of the puzzle am I missing?

[tooncesj0nes]

1. Im jumping ahead a bit...

...but with all the perceived 'spiritual and mental freedom' of the 60's -early 70s..how did Reagan get elected in 1980?....when I was in community college in 1979, already the students seemed to be motivated by $- their role model:- JR of Dallas...

[Snoggera]

3. Well (as ole Ronny would have started the sentence)

Quite a few things changed between, say 1973 and 1979. The most glaring cultural example was the music (which reflected the changing focus from serious, war-minded things to let's-live-party-and enjoy the moment), and secondarily the clothing. By 1979, the war had been officially over for four years. There was a certain joy in the freedom that not having to be concerned about a draft and death in war, and a return to domestic agendas. On a national level, it was struggling with OPEC and hostages, and on a personal level it was struggling with the ongoing need to escape. It was a grand old time for all. Ole Ronny pulled a now typical backdoor repuke scam (with the help of GHWB), and the rest is history.

[Kanary]

8. kinda makes ya wonder if we'll repeat the same scenario

if (when) we manage to see the end of this bloody war, will we once again heave a sigh of relief, and return to business as usual?

Or, have we learned something.......like how easy it would be to lose our country...?

Kanary

[Snoggera]

11. Very good thought

I, for one, hope that we don't return to business as usual, and wonder like you do. I think the scars of the past four years will remain, but how will we react? If we sense that the country is on the right track again, then it would be a healthy thing to breath a sigh of relief, but then, we will have to remember that the dragon is always at the door.

I certainly hope we get our country back. I sometimes feel as though even those of us who pay attention are getting mental glaucoma.

[merh]

41. Don't forget the terrorists at the munich olympics and then

the Iran hostages. Munich freaked everyone out. We watched it for days, that hooded guy and then all hostages were killed. Then Raygun took advantage of the poor folks held in Iran (and I do mean took advantage). The beginning of terrorism and fear as a tool to shape the American psyche.

[merh]

42. dupe

sorry - things happen!

[merh]

43. Dupe

[merh]

35. Blame it on disco!

All that glitter and polyester.

[69KV]

38. Generational shift, and big RW organizing drive

The early 1970s were still very much like the 1960s in society's trends. Counterculture still strong, Nixon resigned, lots of good liberal legislation passed.

The late 1970s were when the right wing's organizing started paying off.

I put the date at about 1978. That was when California's big property tax rollback passed at the polls. The RW learned to use the ballot initiative process to their favor. In 1979 we also had: Iran hostage crisis, energy crisis, "stagflation", "malaise", Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, double digit interest rates. The RW saw an opening and went for it. They placed the blame for all those things on Carter and on liberals more generally. The religious right was organizing pretty strong then too. Jerry Falwell was a big influence in turning evangelicals toward the right, whereas in 1976 they voted mostly for Carter.

There was also a generational shift during the late 1970s. In the 1960s and early 70s it was baby boomers who were college age. The first "generation x" kids started hitting college age about 1979-80. After Vietnam ended and Nixon resigned, society turned inward for the rest of the 1970s, getting into self-help cults, disco, and the first appearance of what would later be called Yuppies. By the time 1980 rolled around, things were ripe for Reagan to schmooz his way into office.

[Tosca]

2. 1971-1972

The draft. It turned neighbors against neighbors, in my hood. One guy down the street, with three sons, was on the draft board. His kids were age-eligible, but in college or college-bound. Up the street was a garage mechanic with three sons. They were never drafted, thank God, but the fear was there. It was all class-related. It was such a divisive time.

Nixon winning in '68? Never would have happened if Bobby hadn't been assassinated. That's my belief. What an ugly year that was.

'72? McGovern (and I loved him) was sharkbait.

[PATRICK]

4. No protests stopped the war

no media stopped the war. making the consciousness a bit more divided and angry didn't stop the war. Under those various pressures the goons in various administrations imploded besides being blindly incompetent. Everyone was blind then in a way that not everyone is now. It is much worse than the usual meme that students no longer had to fear the draft. It just highlights how NO ONE got at responsibility for America's actions and inertia is our elan vitale.

The war fizzled under one last incompetent face saving strategy under caretaker Gerald Ford. No one was around to take the rap to tie up the ends. Various reforms didn't resolve anything of the tortured, ineffectual national mood. Nobody won. No truth came out fully.

In a democracy when so much extreme power is delegated up so easily with so many unlikely myths and near royalist emotion the fact remains that those holding the actual reins of raw power do as they please ands accountability or rationality at the polls is the weakest myth of all.

The jury is out for our time, but hey, with the patriot Act who needs juries anymore? With TV, big money politics and electronic voting what difference does pure democracy make? With a degraded, dispersed octopus of media infotainment slanted to tyranny what influence for good are they even contemplating exercising- when they can't do their primary job anymore with a captive single audience? And will the Dems accommodate and politely take a modest portion back of their legitimate representation
without resolving anything, without getting at the truth?

[Tosca]

6. Well,

"It just highlights how NO ONE got at responsibility for America's actions and inertia is our elan vitale."

I don't know if the garage mechanic knew about elan vitale, but he sure was pissed about the prospect of his sons going to Viet Nam.

[Tosca]

7. And I respectfully disagree with you on this point.

/no media stopped the war. making the consciousness a bit
/more divided and angry didn't stop the war.

Protests DID have an effect. Middle class Americans finally woke up to the futility of the war. Critical mass against the war certainly happened and politicians were forced to listen.

Peace with honor! Peace with honor!

Washington ran because they knew the populace had decided it was an
UNPOPULAR war, at last.

[Blue Wally]

5. Find a copy

of White's book, "The Making of the President 1972". McGovern's supporters took over the party. The 1972 convention was unreal. The regular party machinery was totally shyut out of the presidential campaign. Fortunately, the party regulars concentrated on the Senate, House, and state races and we lost very little ground there while McGovern and the new, young enthusiasts were being badly blown out (taking only Massachusetts and DC) running against a really unlikeable guy, Nixon.

[Tosca]

10. The TIME was unreal.

And if you're suggesting that the old Dem machinery was thrown aside at the '72 convention, GOOD, it should have been.

And no, the '72 convention wasn't unreal, but the '68 one in Chicago certainly was.

[Blue Wally]

24. And how many presidential elections have we won since??

76 Carter, 92 and 96 Clinton

[MyUncle]

9. Young and the Young at Heart tend to be more Liberal.

There are a lot of young at heart people on DU. The tendency with most people is that they wish and believe that most people agree with them and see the wisdom of their views. You are not "missing" something so much as not seeing how many older and old at heart people there are out there. During the 60's the spectacular protests over a multitude of issues, the thousand upon thousands of deaths in Vietnam were magnified in people's hearts who believed in the causes. But, the numbers of Repugs and Conservatives that were out there was larger than today and they voted. That is why Nixon and Raygun won in landslides.

Since then the demograpics have shifted and that is why the race in 00 and this year are so close. As divided as things appear to be, by all accounts and polls it is very evenly divided. Where we live, who we are friends with and what online forums we hang out in all tend to reaffirm our own visions for our country. Many create their own opinion bubbles with like minds. Why hang out with people who piss us off, like the example of your sister? The result is that it is a shock to us that so many do not share our views. My suggestion is do not fall into denial, they are out there.

Just my $.02. Good thought provoking post.

[Snoggera]

13. Thank you for your thoughtful reply

I'll look forward to reading more of your responses/posts.

Welcome to the young at heart community of.......(fill in the blank?)

[MyUncle]

14. The Eager to Learn....

[Tosca]

15. You guys wouldn't be from California, would ya?

Just curious.

[Snoggera]

16. I'm New Mexico

Not Old Mexico, though it has a lot of the flavor of Old Mexico, but New Mexico. I jest. :)

I want all Californian's to stay out, because I appreciate my rural lifestyle. Sorry, but really, surely you Ca's would rather be in Las Vegas or somewhere in Colorado? Please? Pretty Please???????

[MyUncle]

19. Grew up in NY, CA for 17 Years, now Hawaii.

I am now officially at the end of the westward migration pattern

[Tosca]

22. bingo!

I knew it! Your talk sounded like something out of Woody's Annie Hall in the L.A. scenes!

[MyUncle]

23. Which one of us? or both?

I have never seen Annie Hall so if me, not sure what the scene was

[Tosca]

26. Both!

Watch it! It is such a fine movie.

[Snoggera]

27. I have Annie Hall, and it's on my favorites list

but I too am sadly lost.

Is there room in Hawaii for a NM expat?

[MyUncle]

28. Hawaii is insanely expensive.

And I do mean insane. It makes California seem reasonable by comparison. There is room, but very little housing. Zero vacancy in rental and cheapie houses or condos in the $500,000 plus range. I am lucky to have cashed in my chips from San Diego and get a job on the North Shore of Oahu.

PS, all of the movies and TV shows about this place are crap. I haven't seen Big Bounce yet (waiting for video). Guess I am not too much of a video watching person, more outdoors for me.

Still trying to figure out if Tosca is teasing at us? Guess I'll have to see Annie Hall to figure it out.

[Tosca]

29. C'mon! Never lived in California?

C'mon! I know you did.

Well, maybe not.

[MyUncle]

30. So Tosca have you ever lived out west?

[Tosca]

31. Never lived out West, I'm from the People's Republic of Massachusetts

It's the conversation you held with each other in this thread. I thought to myself "how Californian" and then I just thought about Woody Allen's film, for some reason. That's all.

I love Hawaii. Visited it twice. Have they ruined it yet?

[MyUncle]

33. Hawaii is just fine.

Life is sooooo different here. I do not have the prose to properly put it in perspective. I used to go through towns in upstate NY and think "who lives here", same when I went to vacation spots. Now I live in one of the places. Hawaii will not get overrun tons of people, but as per previous post it is going to be VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE. So, in a way, yes it is "ruined" in that it is getting so astronomically out of reach.

[LoZoccolo]

12. Nixon won partly because of far-left voters.

Who didn't think Humphrey was strong enough against the war, and didn't like that McGovern changed his mind on his VP pick.

[G_j]

17. much more to that story than most people know

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20001106&s=wiener

Another 'October Surprise'
by JON WIENER

The Arrogance of Power: The Secret World of Richard Nixon
by Anthony Summers, with Robbyn Swan




Poor Anthony Summers--he writes a 600-page book on Nixon based on massive and exhaustive research, including interviews with a thousand people and 120 pages of documentation--and all the media care about are the couple of pages he devotes to pill-popping and wife-beating. The same thing happened with his J. Edgar Hoover bio, which is remembered mostly for that unforgettable cross-dressing story.

But The Arrogance of Power has historical significance. It shows definitively that during the last weeks of the 1968 election campaign--when Nixon was challenging Vice President Hubert Humphrey--Nixon secretly sabotaged peace talks that might have ended the war at that point. Nixon went on to win one of the closest elections in history, after which he kept the fighting going another five years, during which more than 20,000 Americans and perhaps a million Vietnamese were killed.

The general outlines of the situation were well-known at the time: On October 31, just a week before Election Day, Johnson ordered the bombing halt that the North Vietnamese had said was a prerequisite to their entering into peace talks. Nixon had been eight points ahead in the Gallup poll, but two days after the bombing halt, his lead had fallen to two points. One poll even had Humphrey pulling ahead of Nixon then.

But the talks did not begin, because two days after the bombing halt South Vietnamese President Nguyen Van Thieu refused to participate. He had good reasons to prefer a Nixon victory--Thieu's regime was kept alive only by Washington, and Humphrey had told him that prolonged US aid was "not in the cards." Observers at the time, and historians subsequently, have speculated about whether Nixon conveyed private assurances to Thieu in those crucial two days. Of course Nixon denied it, and LBJ's memoirs, published three years later, declared that he had "no reason to think" that Nixon "was himself involved in this maneuvering, but a few individuals active in his campaign were." Among historians, Stephen Ambrose has been the most explicit in making the case, along with Clark Clifford, Defense Secretary for LBJ at the time, in his 1991 memoirs.
..more..

[G_j]

18. "The Trials of Henry Kissinger"

a MUST see film which also covers the "October surprise"

http://www.frif.com/new2002/kiss.html

The Trials of Henry Kissinger

A Film by Alex Gibney & Eugene Jarecki


Is Henry Kissinger a war criminal? Featuring previously unseen footage, newly declassified U.S. government documents, and revealing interviews with key insiders from Henry Kissinger's White House years, this new film examines charges facing the former Secretary of State and Nobel Peace Prize winner.

Focusing on his role in three key events - America's secret bombing of Cambodia in 1969, the approval of Indonesia's genocidal assault on East Timor in 1975, and the assassination of a Chilean general in 1970 - THE TRIALS OF HENRY KISSINGER also examines the possibility that Kissinger, by sabotaging the 1969 Paris peace talks to further Nixon's candidacy and his own concomitant rise to power, bears responsibility for all the deaths in Vietnam from 1969 to 1975.

<snip>

[Blue Wally]

25. And blue collar Democrats

Who voted for Nixon in great numbers in 1972.

[salonghorn70]

39. You Are Correct

Blue Wally, you have analyzed the 1972 election correctly. Blue collar Dems left the party in droves. They weren't enchanted by Nixon but they felt that the McGovernites did not represent their beliefs and values. In my opinion, this was the beginning of the national Democratic Party losing touch with the values and beliefs of the average voter.

[NewJeffCT]

32. I'm a bit young to remember, but...

Didn't Nixon also impune McGovern's patriotism?

Also, I believe Nixon played with the economy via price freezes in an attempt to have the economy temporarily running well in the months leading up to the election (sort of what * is doing now, though with tax cuts for the rich instead of freezes...) - which led to the rampant inflation of the late 70s and early 80s.

And, Nixon was also the first to really employ the "Southern Strategy" of appealing to poor, rural white Southerners, as it was the first major elections after the landmark Civil Rights Act.

[salonghorn70]

40. Tricky Did All That

But that wasn't why he won in a land slide. He won beause our Party faileed to nominate a candidate who was in touch with the average voter.

[Blue Wally]

46. Inflation began.......

before Nixon with the "guns and butter" decision of the Vietnam War. Nixon's wage and price freeze was an attempt to rein in inflation and it failed miserably. It just caused a temporary hiccup and did nothing to the root causes. Inflation (a very cruel tax on savings) became worse and worse year by year and led to the Reagan victory of 1980. The medicine to end inflation (forget who was Chaiman of the Fed at the time) was pretty powerful (and painful) stuff. Double digit interest rates and mortgages.

Nixon picked up most of the third party votes that went to George Wallace in 1968, but he also picked up a lot of the lower middl;e class blue collar guys. 1972 was the year we lost Joe and Sally Sixpack. We get them back sometimes, but they have voted Republican more often than Demoratic since 1972.

[Baclava]

20. Big difference

Love is no longer free, drugs are too expensive, and Rock and Roll has died.

[Snoggera]

21. Long long time ago

I can still remember how that music used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance, that I could make those people dance
and maybe they'd be happy for awhile.

But February made me shiver
with every paper I'd deliver
bad news on the doorstep
I couldn't take one more step

I can't remember if I cried
when I read about his widowed bride
but something touched me deep inside
the day
The music died.

(from memory only - tribute to Don McLean)

[Pastiche423]

34. An update

AMERICAN LIE

A short, short time ago,
I can still remember
When I chose the family line of work.
But I knew if I took that chance,
I’d make some Texans look askance,
So maybe I’d distract them with a smirk.

Now, Poppy’s moves – they made me shiver;
“Read my lips” – he’s up the river,
Bad news on election,
A great big Bill defection.
I still recall Jim Baker’s pride
When my high court bullies did decide
That as a tyrant I’d preside
The day the voices died.

(Chorus)

So buy my Big American Lie,
Got my chauffeurs and my gophers and my corporate allies,
Them good ol' folks can kiss their freedom goodbye,
Singin’ this’ll be the day our voice dies,
This’ll be the day our voice dies.

Now I re-wrote the Book on Gov,
Put myself on par with God above,
’Cause the Bible told me so.
Now do you believe in the Code of the West?
Shoot first, and ask your questions next,
And can you teach me how to read real slow?

Can we round up every raghead guy?
Can I sit and watch them as they fry?
The wife kicks off her shoes,
The darlin’ twins they hit the booze.
I was an AWOL mean-ass frat-boy cluck,
With a line to snort, and an easy buck,
But I knew I’d always be in luck,
When I got my first free ride.

And I was singin’…

(chorus)

Now for one year, I been ridin’ strong,
I make up my laws as I go along,
But that’s not how it used to be.
When the Prince spoke to the low-class hordes,
In a coat of mail without a sword,
In a voice that echoed only to a tree.

And while Prince Albert hid his head,
My brown shirts made sure he was dead.
The courtroom was adjourned,
My verdict was returned.

And while the people gorged on Condit sex,
I shielded Big Oil from the hex,
Who cares if Jeffords did defect?
The day their voices died.

And I was singin’…

(chorus)

Helter-skelter, evil-doer belter,
And I flew off to a fallout shelter,
(Dick and Laura, save your ass…)
But I landed safe in Ari’s spin,
The hell with all the rest of them,
And the Congress on the sidelines took a pass.


Is our children learning all the while,
To pledge allegiance and sieg heil?
They all put up their flags,
’Cept for commies, freaks and fags.
Then my right-wing thugs began to rave,
And the Democrats began to cave,
Do you recall the ground they gave
The day their voices died?

And I was singin’…

(chorus)

Oh, and there I was, right on third base –
Sing praise to Ashcroft’s saving grace.
No way for Dems to start again.
So come on Dems be humble, Dems be quick,
Dems can lick Herr Armey’s Dick,
’Cause destruction is the Lord’s greatest friend.

Oh, and as I watched them crash and burn,
I exulted they would never learn,
No hammer nor no bell
Can ever break my spell.
And as my press and party kissed my ass,
The Demo leaders ate my sass,
I saw Jesus laugh with righteous wrath,
The day their voices died.

And I was singin’…

(chorus)

I met a corporate welfare slut,
I asked him for the final cut,
And he just smiled and bared his soul:
“Just go down to the sacred vault,
And rape the lockbox (it’s Bill’s fault)
And you’ll hit your big trifecta in the polls.”


And in the streets some cage-nuts raved,
Some children starved,
The press behaved.
No angry words were spoken,
The spirit here is broken.
And the news that I admire most:
The Fat Guy… Fox… the New York Post…
They slobber for my every boast –
So goes Democracide.

And now I’m singin’…

(chorus)

Written by Road
2001-12-05

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. In the '60s we wanted to change society. Today they want to change bosses

In 1968 I cast my first vote for president. It was the only time I didn't vote for a Democrat. This will by my second. In '68 I voted the Peace & Freedom Party. This time I'll be voting Green.

[salonghorn70]

37. Tricky's Win in 1972

George McGovern is a real nice man. A war hero, as far as I'm concerned as he flew in bombers in WWII. But he was a terrible candidate.He was perceived by the average voter as being too far to the left. Blue Wally in a post above suggested reading the Making of the President 1972. Good book. The McGovernites won the Convention fair and square. They did kick out all regulars in sight. They had absolutely no understanding of the average voter. The average voter may not have liked Nixon and disliked the war, but looked on McGovern as being completely out of touch with their beliefs. Muskie or Humphrey would have run much better races. I don't know if either would have won but it would have been close.

[indigobusiness]

44. History does repeat, but comparing today with the 60s

is like dancing about architecture.

[ramapo]

45. Nixon was a great and terrible politician

Nixon narrowly won in '68 as a peace candidate. During the campaign he talked about ending the war while behind the scenes was really planning to escalate it. He also claimed to work behind the scenes with the North Vietnamese in a October surprise scenario.

Humphery waited too long to disengage himself from LBJ's war policy. There was also the whole law-and-order thing brought on by the demonstrations and convention riot.

Nixon won reelection by manipulating the war. He escalated our involvement during the first term and was always hanging out his plan to win the peace, peace with honor, stay the course, etc. He appealed to the Southern Democrats who were pissed because of LBJ's civil rights changes.

Nixon also painted McGovern as a pinko, communist appeaser. Amazing how the Republicans have been able to take decorated veterens who happen to be Democrats and villify them. The sad thing is the American voter falls for this crap.

Read Daniel Ellsberg's recent book to learn what really went on with Nixon and the war. Also watch "Fog of War" with Rober McNamara.

Nixon was in my mind a war criminal. Somewhere around 25,000 Americans were killed in Vietnam through LBJ's admin. Nixon's maniuplation of the war for political reasons (his reelection) cost us more than another 25,000 dead.

The other amazing thing is that Nixon today would be thrown out of the party as a raging liberal for starting the EPA along with some toher initiatives. Not that he did these things for the right reason.

[Blue Wally]

47. We still believe the myths that we have created.........

"Nixon won reelection by manipulating the war. He escalated our involvement during the first term and was always hanging out his plan to win the peace, peace with honor, stay the course, etc. He appealed to the Southern Democrats who were pissed because of LBJ's civil rights changes."

Nixon administration's troop strengths in Vietnam as of:

Dec 31, 1968: 536,000 (just before Nixon took office)
Dec 31, 1969: 484,330
Dec 31, 1970: 335,790
Dec 31, 1971: 158,120
Dec 31, 1972: 24,000

Nixon did wind down the war, not escalate it in terms of US involvement. He did make cross border incursions into Cambodia in 1970 and laos in 1971 to destroy NVA bases. Nixon essentially got us out of Vietnam during his first term, just not as fast as some would have liked. I was there in December 1972 and the US bases were like ghost towns.

[Laughing Mirror]

48. How was Nixon a war criminal, but not Johnson?

I read Elsberg's excellent book, Secrets, too, and the conclusion that I drew was that they were both war criminals. Johnson constantly and deliberately lied to us all, not only on Tonkin, but throughout his reign while escalating the war.

We expected the same from Nixon. We got it.

What did somebody say in an earlier post about changing bosses? This is all it ever amounts to in the system that we are operating under. Nothing will change until we change that system.