So, Hillary and some other useless Dem "leaders"

[newsguyatl]

today said that if they knew THEN what they know NOW about the intelligence of supposed weapons being NON-existant, they'd still vote for the war.

when i hear comments like this, it not only angers me, it assures that i'll NEVER vote for, or help her or anyone like her get in ANY kind of office.

what an EMBARASSMENT, what a SHAME she and the others like her are, for the democratic party.

wonder what kerry would say if he were asked the question?

i hope he IS asked, and i hope he gives the right answer.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. He will be asked. Don't hold your breath for a real answer.

I'm betting on a non-answer. Something along the lines of, "We must reform and fund the Intelligence Establishment...yada, yada".

[tnlefty]

2. Oh Jeeez, I missed this and I'm glad that I did. Do you have any more

specifics? Disheartening is an understatement...

[PassingFair]

18. Jay Rockefeller...

Said he would absolutely have voted NO if he hadn't been lied to. It's a position that all dems should take, if they want to win this election.
NPR interviewed a 'puke senator (didn't catch his name) and he went on and on blah, blah, hindsight is 20-20, blah, blah, let's not waste any more time "looking in the rearview mirror"...must make the most of the situation we "find ourselves" in...WTF!!!!!!!!!
What about tens of thousands, uncounted, underestimated but absolutely DEAD Iraqis. What about 1,000 or more soldiers and "contractors".
I'm so angry, I'm almost as angry at the dems as I am the 'pukes.

[tnlefty]

25. Thanks for the additional info.

Wonder how they'd like to be slapped upside the head with that rearview mirror. This is soooooo disappointing. I'm going to go have a drink or something.

[cidliz2004]

41. We need a THIRD PARTY

The people that can lead this country and are not DemocratRepublicans should DO SOMETHING NOW to bring honor and courage back to this country.

[bigbillhaywood]

43. We need a Resistance Movement. And a Revolution.

The system is incapable of reform. It must be smashed, and a new system put in its place.

[Kanary]

50. It's really hard to deal with the fact that human lives

mean NOTHING to any of 'em.

Intellectually I recognize the inescapable truth.

Emotionally, I'm reeling.

And, wretching.

Somehow, all those nice pictures of their smiling, campaigning families are now making me ill.

Kanary

[napi21]

54. That was Pat Roberts, committee chairman.

He's the committee chair of this investigation. I have to give him a bit of a break! He's a Pub! If he would have been Frist, or some of the other more radical Pubs, he would have said "absolutely I would have voted for the was." He didn't. He crawled out from under the hammer with a non commital answer.

[Kanary]

3. This is beyond outrage (and peaking of that, where *IS* the outrage?)

I

AM

SICKENED.


Kanary, not surprised, just giving up.......

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. What is WRONG with these people? Why are Howard Dean and Dennis K

not leaders of the Democratic Party instead?

[Kanary]

15. I can only draw ONE conclusion.....

it's what I've been coming to for months now......

The people of the US, both Dem and Rep., WANT WAR. They're getting their jollies, and it's juicing up their hormone system.

People of BOTH parties WANT a deep schism between the haves and the have-nots...... they all think they'll be in the first category, and they'll be able to look down on others. One big EGO and POWER trip.

People of BOTH parties WANT the corporations running the country. They want to think it's what "make America great".

Here in Colorado, we finally have an opportunity to actually elect someone to the Senate who Is AGAINST war (and has the qualifications to work to keep us OUT of war!), who is fighting for the "little guy" against the big companies, and who is VERY qualified to improve our educational system -- for ALL. Those of us who've witnessed what he's done the last couple of years are amazed that someone of his integrity would even be WILLING to put himself into that meatgrinder called politics, and work for US. Yet, what do I keep hearing..... "He's not electable." The same old garbage. So, they'll vote for the DINO who backs king georgie's war, likes school vouchers and NCLB, etcetcetc. And, I wouldnt' be a bit surprised if he pulled the same number as the guy who's seat he's running for..... run as a Dem, get into office, then switch to a Rep.

But, I've made enough phone calls to know this is what people WANT. This is what DEMS WANT. So, I'll just stand aside, make room for them, let them have what they want, and spend my few remaining years (if I even have that much!) enjoying nature. Once they've completely lost the country, maybe they're realize just how stoooooooooooopid they have been. By the time that realization hits them, people like me will be dead from all the cuts. Not that it matters anymore. Some of us just want out now.

It really is true that people get what they want in terms of running this country.

Kanary

[KG]

22. you're not far off the mark, K.

[Kanary]

24. I wish I was...........

Having been punished as a child for crying, I lack the ability to cry now. But, all this has me in tears. I'm really in mourning, and would like to believe this is all one huge, giant mistake.

Thanks for the shoulder to cry on, and for the great quote in your sig.

Kanary, a dancer who "gets it"

[bigbillhaywood]

27. Very good Kanary

It's been that way for a long time, but every once and a while, the progressives make some headway in this country. Progress happens. This country was founded on a progressive (albeit bourgoeis) revolution. The Civil War smashed the slaveocracy. The thirties was a near revolution and brought many important changes and steps forward-- the same can be said of the Civil Rights/New Left movement of the 60s/early 70s which smashed Jim Crow and ended the Vietnam War. We need another Revolution here. To quote martyr Fred Hampton: "I am a revolutionary. And I will be one until I die."

We never know when death will come for us, we have to do our best while we're here. If you really are approaching death, then die a revolutionary.

[Kanary]

33. I want to take hope from your post......

But, then......... I look at all the European countries who are lightyears ahead of us in progressive understanding, and it all looks completely hopeless.

I guess for all of you in the muddle class, it's discouraging, but part of the wallpaper. For me, it's one huge bellydrop.

A friend of mine's husband says the majority of the population thinks torture is just fine. I think he's right.

and I find that just about impossible to deal with.

Kanary

[bigbillhaywood]

36. Working class, Kanary. And proud of it!

I get depressed about the exact same shit you do. The only thing to do is fight and die doing so. At least you can know you're doing the right thing, even if a majority aren't.

[Kanary]

37. Thanks for the support. I'm just so tired of fighting.

Yes, I do have that comfort of knowing.

BUt, sometimes the loneliness is weighty. It sux ALWAYS being in the minority... we all have a need to belong in life.

Sometimes just a pat on the back helps. Is that too much to ask?

I'll go visit the trees and waterfalls again, and my spirits will rise. But this soul-draining sadness is always there. Sometimes the world just sux.

Thanks for understanding.

Kanary, who gets no joy from malls........(see how unamerican I am........)

[bigbillhaywood]

40. Pat. Pat. Now go smoke some pot, and listen to some good music ya

wife-swapping Commie! You can pick up the fight tomorrow.

[Kanary]

45. good goddess........ that's what I need!

A wife!

:hi:

~~gigglesnort~~

Kanary

[Atlas Mugged]

4. I live in New York state

And I voted for Hillary. I will only vote for her again if it means keeping a Republican out of office. I'm really pissed at her for her support of this invasion fiasco. And her support of the Patriot Act.

[mmonk]

5. It's time to take back the party

and purge it of imperialism and doctrines such as "preventive war". It's time to purge the party of any supporters of the shadow government. It's time to restore the constitution, checks and balances, open and transparent gov't, the Bill of Rights, adherence to international law, and the Geneva conventions. Otherwise, my family and I are out of here in search of a democratic republic.

[KG]

6. it's no mystery why the dem party is out of power

it is led by morally corrupt political cowards.

[Guaranteed]

39. Yup. To win, you have to fight. nt

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

8. the "im looking for an excuse to vote third party" thread?

Get over it, Blanche.

[mmonk]

9. I've been a lifelong democrat

and will vote accordingly THIS ELECTION. After that, it's up to the party and which way it goes as to whether I remain.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. The Democrat's pathetic "leadership" is certainly supplying them.

[Redleg]

28. Several Dems have been strongly speaking out against Bush

on a fairly regular basis. I don't suppose you have ever heard them.

[Kanary]

35. What does that matter, if in the end, they all want war, and

the corporate rule?

They just want to do it *their* way, with *their* power.

Kanary

[bigbillhaywood]

49. How about the "nearly everyone in Congress is a hawkish America-firster

corporate whore, and we need a fucking Revolution to throw the lot of them out and establish true political and economic democracy" thread? How ya like them apples?

[MrSlayer]

10. It's times like these when I wonder whether we are all fooling ourselves.

Is our party really any better than the other when our leaders say shit like this? This is rather depressing. They should be using this to destroy the Chimp, not back him up. I'm disgusted.

[tnlefty]

13. Amen. "They should be using this to destroy the Chimp"

Absolutely pound his monkey head into the ground with this kind of ammo.

[Kanary]

17. The honest among us are definitely questioning this.

I'm too upset by this to even think further at this point.

The Dems are blowing themselves up.

Kanary

[mmonk]

31. You are correct

After the election, support for the dems may diminish as people seek alternatives or become apathetic.

[Andromeda]

11. Link please?

When and where did you hear these comment?

[G_j]

16. I heard it too

it was either NPR, ABC or PBS (big help eh?)

the list also included Daschel and Biden

[newsguyatl]

21. abc news

[AlCzervik]

19. I heard Jay Rockafella say the exact opposite

He said the senate would not have authorized the war if they new then what they know now.

[hansolsen]

20. One last vote, only to be rid of Bush, and then accountability

I will vote for John Kerry and John Edwards, who both voted for this war, but only with deep reservations.

I will, hopefully, watch them take office, but with no joy in my heart, but rather with deep apprehension. The current crop of Dem leaders, including Hil and Bil and the DLC cabal, are largely a bunch of courage impaired, corporate sponsored, sleazy politicians, and nothing more. John Kerry is the panderer in chief, and he has plenty of company, including Gephardt and Daschle. I am deeply disappointed with the lot of them. And I will never vote for Hillary Clinton for President, I swear.

I have made a solemn promise to myself. One more vote to be rid of the Prince of Abu Ghraib, but then I will view the Dem administration with a jaundiced eye, and if Kerry just turns out to be Bush lite in Iraq, I will work my ass off to make him a one term president.

[Disturbed]

23. Reality

Most Dems, including Kerry and Edwards were pro-Iraq invasion. They now are unhappy about the outcome to date but they want to keep US Forces and Multi_Corps in Iraq.

A majority of the Dems want to continue the US Occupation of Iraq. This Occupation is cloaked in "The US needs 140K + Troops to provide security" deception. The real deal is that both Dems and Repubs want the US to develope permanent precense in Iraq and establish Multi-Corp dominance over the Iraqis and control the oil and maintain a Military of 14 bases of 100K strong troops to control the ME. If that takes another 10K Troop deaths, another 40K wounded and $100 Billion off the backs of the American Middle Class, so be it.

[hansolsen]

26. Yes and the hard right Likud strategies for a Greater Israel

are the major beneficiaries of this policy.

I would like to ask John Kerry if he supports keeping permanent military bases in Iraq. I'd like to see him squirm out of that one.

[bigbillhaywood]

29. No, you must not speak of this!

Or else the information commissars will banish thee to the I/P dungeon!

[hansolsen]

38. I/P dungeon???? help N/T

[BillZBubb]

42. Your "reality" is warped

Neither Kerry or Edwards were pro-Iraq invasion. That is a total crock. They both voted for the IWR, but they stated at the time that war was only to be the LAST resort after all other efforts had failed. Bush* ignored that provision of the resolution.

A majority of Dems want to continue the occupation only until we can leave without the whole place falling into total chaos. After blasting their country, we owe the Iraqis at least a chance at a peaceful life. Kerry wants to get other governments to provide the peacekeeping troops and lessen the US burden. Plus, Kerry will get us out of their much faster than any Repug, especially Chimpy.

[bigbillhaywood]

47. One way or another, our government will be in Iraq a very, very long time.

And it is your "reality" that is warped. Kerry and Edwards gave a dangerous psycho like Bush, who had a majority of his fascist allies in both houses of Congress a blank check. To date, Kerry has not asserted that Bush legally violated the Iraq War Resolution. Because he didn't-- it was a blank check. Kerry's wishes that force be used only as a "last resort" are irrelevant because the bill contained no such procedural safeguards. It was stupid for him to vote for a bill without such safeguards given the fascist that holds executive military power. Actually not stupid, political cowardice. Kerry wanted to look tough.

[Radical Activist]

30. Shut up! A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush!

That's what people will tell you if you get out of line with thoughts like that. It doesn't matter how the latest Democratic nominee voted. You'll eat your broccoli and like it!

[Kanary]

32. Okay........

:hi:

Kanary, stuffing broccoli in her ears.......

[Guaranteed]

34. Just nothing. These people are nothing. Totally empty.

Absolutely disgusting.

[erpowers]

44. Clinton's comments

I am beginning to think that she is moving to the right in order to be able to run for president. In the past few years she has leaned rightward on certian issues including Irsael and Iraq. If she is moving to the right in order to win an election that makes her move even worst in that she is willing to sell out the people in order to get elected. So I guess she is one of those people we should not support. The problem is what happens if she becomes the nomiee in 2012 can we afford to vote for a Republican over Clinton? I know 2012 is a long time away, but I still think that is a reasonable question.

[ParisFrance]

46. Dick Morris

I don't know how many of you are familiar with Dick Morris , but he was a strategist for Bill Clinton. He has written books and made public statements that Hillary will do anything for politcal gain.

[bleedingheart]

48. unlike GW Bush???

oh for crying out loud...

[VolcanoJen]

51. Sacre Bleu!!!!!

Dick Morris? You mean, you actually trust something this carrot-on-a-stick of a political advisor said in some crap book he wrote?

What side is Dick Morris on these days? It's kind of hard to keep up with his current loyalties.

Hey, cute name, ParisFrance! Are you really from Paris, or just a Francophile?

[unkachuck]

52. All Corporate Democrats.....

.....who want to become Corporate President of the Corporate United States will have to like war.....can't get the job without it....

You are sitting with answer in front of you....Trippi/Dean raised 40 million dollars over the internet.....let's pick ourselves up, find worthy people and raise 10 times that.....

[mzmolly]

53. I liked Bill as a President, and I like Hill as a person, but she has

made some very questionable moves as a Senator. :(