Class Warfare

[olddem43]

Repugs are always complaining about Dems conducting "class warfare".
We need class warfare - the working class (us) against the stealing class (Ken Lay, VP Haliburton, and all the other corporate crooks).
There seriously needs to be limits on what executives can take (even legally) from publicly held companies. They don't need salaries and stock options in the millions each year or hundreds of millions. That's our money they're taking. Our pensions, savings, and investments.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Agree absolutely

There are corporations that have rules that the executives can't get more than X times the salary of the lowest paid worker. No reason it can't be done with every corporation.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Except that the neocon serfs are POSITIVE they will all be the

next multi-billionaire CEO, so they scream and scream about "stealing" CEO pay. :eyes:

[olddem43]

4. Good idea, -

This point was brought out by Wes Clark. He said he made x times what a private makes but not thousands of times more.

[Cats Against Frist]

3. It's another instance of language manipuation

and letting them frame the debate. Because of their talk heathens, they have controlled the debate in this country for the last ten years -- making even us ashamed of getting our principles out there. I woke up this morning thinking about this today, and how there is never an impassioned debate about liberal issues. We're letting them frame it, and basically just responding to the narratives that they put out there.

Does the DNC even know this? I'm sure there are smart people over there. Instead of letting the farther left do all the work, which ends up alienating the plebeians, we need our Dem representatives in Congress to stand up.

Waxman should be holding press conferences, daily. They should find a way to appoint their own special prosecutor.

"Class warfare" is a make-up term and a buzz word, quite literally to demonize those who feel a rich, ruling class should not have the laws made in their favor. Period.

[Q]

5. Remember...Bush's* base is the 'have mores'...

...and the rest is history.

[amber dog democrat]

6. Damn right it is

And they started it. If a fair wage, decent schools, safe environment, and civil lliberties, and sound foreign policy are worth saving, then they have to be fought for.
This is war, pure and simple.

[Redleg]

11. Succinctly stated!

Those bastards and their corporate cronies have been waging class warfare through their ACTIONS yet when a liberal brings this up, the rightwingers accuse them of waging class warfare through their WORDS.

[mermaid]

13. Bingo!!

Amber Dog and Red Leg state it beautifully. Read my own longer post on this, for the horror story I went thru recently!!

Goddamn it THIS IS WAR!!

[mhr]

7. Here Is My Review (Rant) On "Perfectly Legal" Posted At Amazon.com

Class Warfare - "Bring It On"

Ask yourself a simple question.

If the ultra wealthy are taxed too much and the ultra poor are taxed too little, then why has the income gap between rich and poor grown?

The answer is simple, the ultra wealthy are not taxed enough and the ultra poor should pay less.

Ask yourself another simple question.

If the millionaires and billionaires can fight for their economic interests, then why can't others fight for their interests as well?

The answer is simple. The ultra wealthy and right wing don't want this to happen because it would force them to defend the indefensible, the US tax system.

Finally, ask yourself this.

If a person or company benefits from living and working in the US should they be required to contribute for that benefit?

The answer is obvious. Of course! Further, those that have benefited the greatest should be required to contribute the most. Without proportional reciprocity, the ultra wealthy will continue to reap the greatest reward with the least sacrifice.

David Cay Johnston has done all Americans a service by writing "Perfectly legal." His succinct outline of a dysfunctional tax system highlights the underlying reality of the posed questions. The book also exposes the absurdity of the right wing's defense, expressed here and daily by right wing talking heads.

Let the wars begin!

[JanMichael]

8. And they've also convinced people that Corporations AREN'T special...

...interests and somehow Labor IS a special interest.

Fascinating.

[ThomWV]

9. How About This?

How about outlawing any pay at all for CEO's or members of Boards of Directors for, or payment of dividends from, any company that has an underfunded pension plan. How would that be?

[Eric J in MN]

10. From my blog re "The Majority Report" radio show

(The Majority Report radio show is hosted by Janeane Garofalo and Sam Seder.)

Sam Seder says corporations are waging "class warfare" against consumers and workers.

Sam Seder adds that while Republicans say John Edwards, wants to divide us, people should be divided from corporations, since corporations aren't people.

Seder and Garofalo seem to have recently seen a new documentary titled The Corporation, directed by Jennifer Abbott.

For the Audio of the Segment, go to MOVELEFT.COM:

http://www.moveleft.com/moveleft_essay_2004_07_09_george_w._bush_was_given_everything.asp

[mermaid]

12. Right On!!

And you forgot to mention ACS (Affiliated Computer Services) my former employer.
447 on the Fortune 500 list...and they got there by screwing over their employees!
I was working for a little company, subcontracted to produce Medicaid claims for the State of Texas. This company was called Mediclaim, Inc. They were contracted by NHIC (National Heritage Insurance Company) which, in turn, was contracted by EDS (the company Ross Perot founded) which actually held the Texas Medicaid contract.

ACS underbid the crap outta the contract in order to get it. When they recruited those of us working at Mediclaim and NHIC, they lied to us about what we could expect for compensation.

They told us we would be paid on a "piece-rate" they called Incentive Compensation. When asked, at this meeting, what the average hourly salary would work out to, on Incentive Compensation, we were told "between eleven and thirteen dollars an hour."

This was in April, 2003.

At that time, I was making ten bucks an hour with Mediclaim, so it seemed a good deal to me, and with my good production, I figured on no trouble getting a job with the new company, once our contract expired...and here, they were offering as good, or better pay, than I was currently getting. So why would I bother to look for another job?

In September, 2003, I was officially informed I had a job waiting for me, beginning right after Christmas, with ACS, and that I would remain with Medicalim until that time. Sweet.

We started ACS. They started us out at $9.50 an hour as a "training wage" until they got the Incentive compensation rolled out. Well, I didn't like this, but was willing to take a short-term cut in pay in order to get a long-term better deal, right?

Then, they rolled the rates out! They universally sucked!
The company average under Incentive Compensation was "close to $8.00 an hour" per a company memo distributed on 12 February 2004. At that time, MY average was $8.77 an hour, so I was ahead of the curve. I say this so that it is understood it has nothing to do with any lack of ability on my part, what came next...

As one, the employees howled and screamed about the rates. They told us to relax, that these were not set in stone, they just wanted to see what these numbers would do...and that they were reviewing.

Meanwhile, we had a backlog of over 300,000 claims (normal backlog would be around 50,000) so we were working anywhere from 16 to 24 hours a week in MANDATORY overtime. for less than what most of us were making with the old company. you can imagine how well this was going down.

Then, they rolled out new rates, at the beginning of April. They had CUT the rates almost in HALF!! They claimed, with new efficincies they had built into the system, we would be able to make as much as on the old rates (which, as I already said, was not acceptable to most of us!)

Furthermore, they were phasing us in over a few pay periods, we would be guaranteed $9.50 a hour that pay period, $8.50 the next, and $7.50 the week after. meaning, if we earned less than that on Incentive compensation, they would pay the higher rate. After that period, you dropped to a "safety net" where you would never earn less than minimum wage. They actually called it that...a safety net!! no, it isn't a safety net, IT'S THE FUCKING LAW!!!

Furthermore, we were told, in writing, that if more efficiencies were added, the rates may drop...but no discussion of any RISE in the rates. It became obvious I was in the classic George Jetson (help Jane, stop this crazy thing!) situation. Our reward for working harder was not going to be more money...just more work. and we were going to be forced to work ever-harder, just to make the same wage! This while gas prices were going thru the roof! And I traveled 25 miles a day, one way, for this job!

Now, had they been honest, back in April, 2003, I never would have applied for or accepted a job there, and I'd have had eight months, while still working at the old company, to locate better employment...and a nice, safe layoff and unemployment if I wasn't able to locate something. Instead, by LYING to us...they took my ability to make an informed, reasoned, intelligent decision, based on accurate data, about my own fucking career path!

It got so bad I ended up QUITTING at the end of April (meaning no eligibility for unemployment, because I quit...even though the reason for my quitting was that we had been lied to about what our compensation would be!)

So I ended up delivering a fucking Houston Chronicle newspaper route to racks and stores in Austin, while looking for another job. Glad to say I found one, and start in mid-August, for $10.50 an hour. At which time I can quit this goddam seven-day-a-week, substandard paying newspaper route!

and then these assholes wonder WHY we engage in "class warfare??" when the rich and powerful exploit the crap outta us, and lie to us, and cheat on us, and steal from us?? Shit!!

And here's the rich part...we all, as new employees, were forced to undergo an "ethics training" class, taught by ACS!!

Since I'm no longer employed by them, I'm no longer bound by their ethics rules, meaning I can now speak freely, and publish what a bunch of rotten asswads they really are...and how they lied to all of us!

They whine about "class warfare" I say they bring it on themselves by not treating workers fairly and properly! All I ever asked for is an honest day's pay for an honest day's work. Obviously, to the corporate mogul, country-club, pinheaded assholes that run American companies, this is not a reasonable demand on my part. I'm supposed to, apparently, give the an honest day and a half of work, in exchange for 3/4 a day's pay! Fuck that!!

I mean, who would walk willingly, with their eyes open, into a situation where they were suddenly taking an almost 3 dollar an hour pay cut, to do the same damn job!! How fucking stupid do they think we are??

[amber dog democrat]

15. Sorry that had to happen to you.

I am almost totally soured on corporations - from having been a mid level sales executive in puter industry for 11 years.

There are good situations out there and you deserve nothing less.
Get it in writing , get it in blood if you must but trust only goes so far.

[mermaid]

17. So I Have Learned...The Hard Way!!

Never again will a corporation talk me into working for a piece rate until I get a guarantee IN WRITING, what my average hourly wage will be, GUARANTEED...
See, I didn't think to do that. Who on my peon level does? You tend to take companies at their word. Not me. Not anymore. i'm forever soured on corporations. They are all evil. They exist solely to suck the soul out of the Noble Worker...

[amber dog democrat]

19. You want weekends too.

That is NOT negotiable.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

14. the GOP are playing their own class warfare game.

They are stirring up the great unwashed against the "liberal elite", the "blue states", the :"BoBos", etc.

[AP]

16. They should have to expense stock options, and maybe there should be

a tax law which sets a formula so that executive salaries aren't deductible above a certain limit, and/or company governance should probably be reformed so that stock holders have more control over executive compensation.

[JPJones]

18. The Republicans declared war on the middle class

Class warfare is better than class genocide.

[amber dog democrat]

20. They don't want a middle class

when they can have serfs and peons instead.

" I'd like to force the world to live in abject poverty.
I'd like to load them down in chains and make them work for me"

to the tune of" I want to teach the world to sing"

from comedian I can not remember....

[CrispyQ]

21. I'm in disbelief when a company declares bankruptcy . . .

...the CEO leaves, & gets a huge bonus as he goes out the door. WTF???????????

Corporate Personhood has destroyed this country & needs to be revoked. The only good thing I can say about Nader is he addresses this issue in his platform.


Two sites with info on Corporate Personhood:

http://www.nancho.net/corperson/

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/#significant


Nader's site:

http://www.votenader.org/issues/index.php?cid=15

<snip>
Reform of Corporate "Personage" Rights — Corporations Should NOT be Entitled to the Rights of "Immortal Individuals"
A national debate is needed regarding the necessity to reverse the dicta in the 1886 Supreme Court Case of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad that first awarded the corporation constitutional status as a person and in subsequent decision. Corporations are not human beings, they do not vote; they are artificial entities which should be subordinated to the rights of human beings There can be no equal justice under the law if General Motors or Exxon has all the rights of humans plus all the privileges and immunities to concentrate enormous power and escape responsibility in ways unavailable to the wealthiest of real people.


We need a grassroots movement to revoke this evil ruling that has destroyed our democracy.

[bigbillhaywood]

22. We have class warfare-- it's just all one-sided

The working class are on the losing end, and aside from isolated union struggles against particular employers, the working class is not fighting back. And if the working class in this country as a whole ever do fight back, you can bet that the Democratic politicians, who all accept tons of corporate cash, will not make good Generals for the army of the working class.

[bigbillhaywood]

23. Working people, if you want to resist corporate attacks, the best

way is not to vote Democrat (who all take corporate contributions), but rather to organize a union at your workplace. It may not be a way of engaging in class warfare against corporate power on a national scale, but you can at least win the battle against your own employer. And if enough people do it, we can take on corporate power on a national scale. I'm not saying don't vote Democrat (I'm voting for Kerry), I'm just saying that doing so will only lessen corporate attacks on working people-- it will by no means end it. Organize! Unionize! Take a stand against your employer-- demand the money, power and respect you deserve! If it weren't for you and your coworkers, your bosses wouldn't make a dime.

[mermaid]

24. The Problem Is...

too many people are afraid to stand up to their employers now, because they know their employers are only too glad to replace them, and throw them in the street, penniless!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. There's been class warfare since Cain whacked Abel.

Funny how it's always the wealthy who whine about it, yet wage it most unmercifully.

[mermaid]

27. Ah...But You Forget...

since we are, so far, letting THEM frame the debate...it is only class warfare when it comes from our side. when it comes from their side it is "making tough decisions in hard economic times."

Translation: "If one of us is gonna take it on the chin, it ain't gonna be me...you can fuck off now, I gotta write this check for my Beemer payment...fuck you, I don't care if you even EAT!!!"

[mermaid]

26. Every Time BushCo Tries To Hammer Edwards

as being in favor of policy harmful to small business...we need to remind the American people that BushcCo is in favor of policy harmful to small WORKERS!!!