Since there is a huge debate AGAIN on liberals versus moderates on DU

[GreenPartyVoter]

feel free to state which you are in this thread.

I'm one of those "wild-eyed" libs... -7.75 and -6.62

What are you?

http://politicalcompass.org/

[Dookus]

1. actually

I don't think the biggest divide is between liberals and moderates. It's between pragmatists and idealists. I think on issues, we're largely in agreement. It's a question of how best to make progress on those issues.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. I Agree With You....

I had like a -4 on both scales....


And I don't think I'm as far to the left as Nelson Mandella though we would agree on alot...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. Good point

[Redleg]

5. I agree too.

I am a liberal Democrat according to the many political compass-type assessments I have taken. I just can't stand it when some of the people here have to pull their hair out because our Dem elected officials aren't ideologically pure enough or some such crap. We need to focus on getting Bush out this year. Then we can figure out how to shape our party the way we want it. We also need to keep in mind that we will have to work with Dems who have some different beliefs than us.

[bread_and_roses]

66. the trouble is...

we've been saying that about every Administration since the Vietnam War (probably before, but that's when my political memory starts). And for thirty years we've drifted rightward...a drift that's turned into a big dune now.

What you say sounds reasonable...it just isn't working real well.

[Dookus]

73. And you know something interesting?

People on the far right can list a litany of areas in which they think the country has moved too far to the left.

Sodomy is no longer illegal, gay marriages ae becoming a reality, and under Clinton, minimum wages rose, environmental regulations were tightened, etc. etc. etc.

Of course nobody on either extreme will be fully satisfied in a democracy. But that's a good thing. We don't get everything we want, but in return, Tom Delay doesn't get everything HE wants. That's the way the system's designed.

[bread_and_roses]

109. That's not how it's working

..."they" are getting what they want-it all. Economic disparity tells the story. It continues to widen, and did so under Clinton as well - albeit at a slower pace. The household income of the poorest 20% of us has remained LOWER than it was during 1979: $13,806 in 1979; $13,388 today (in current $).

Changes in sexual mores and other cultural shifts are subject to forces far greater than the politics, although politics is in the mix. The liberalization in some of those areas has been fought tooth and nail by the far right because those are good methods of social control. They are losing that battle, but as long as they win the economic battle it won't matter much to them. And that they are winning: as Michael Parenti said, they want it all. And they are getting it.

For a more international perspective, bigbillhaywood summarizes it pretty well above in his litany of Imperialist assaults under Democrats.

[GreenPartyVoter]

111. Never forget, "sex sells".

[Pithlet]

140. Yes. Excellent points.

This country is not filled with members of the Green party. Particularly considering we have a first-past-the-post electoral system, policy will always be a compromise. The compromise can either be between the center and the right, or the center and the left. I'll take the compromise between center and left any day.

Punishing the left for compromising with the center only puts the right in a position to compromise with the center in place of the left. It doesn't work, and it hasn't worked in any time in our history. We don't have coalition style government. European parliamentary tactics don't work in the US.

[bread_and_roses]

153. The Right is not compromising with the center

If the "Center" is the majority in numerous polls and studies, the "Center" is more with us than against us on issues like health care, education, welfare, taxation, and the environment. The "Right" under current thieves and murderers in power has launched all-out assault on all those areas.

I don't have the answers, my point above is simply that stances based on compromise with absolutists is not working. There is no compromise possible with tyrany...only appeasement. When we have virtually no politicians willing to speak for positions actually supported by a majority of citizens, we have a problem.

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. I think it certainly seems that way this year more than in the past.

I'm getting slammed by other Greens for planning on checking off Kerry's name in November just to get * out.

Mind you, though, if I don't see significant progressive reforms put into place (esp the election sort) then I'm probably going to go back to voting Green on '08.

[unfrigginreal]

25. I call bullshit

it's actually a divide between the complacent and the dissatisfied.

[Dookus]

28. No, it's not

It really has nothing to do with complacency. It has to do with actually trying to win elections.

We're all dissatisfied.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

54. Being chronically dissatisfied is not an effective action

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

62. then remove it

[unfrigginreal]

64. Come over here and I will

:)

[unfrigginreal]

91. Aw darn

It wasn't really that bad. Anyway, sorry if you think it was.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

93. I didn't do it

promise

[unfrigginreal]

94. LOL

I didn't think you would. :P

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

100. not for something as mild as that

;)

[bigbillhaywood]

52. DISAGREE BIG TIME

Being "pragmatic" has historically been a cover for more conservative elements of the left/progressive movements. By the same token, the label "idealist" is used by the "pragmatists" to try to discredit more radical elements that may pose a threat to their interests.

Charles Sumner (of the Radical Republicans) was labeled an "idealist" by his "pragmatist" opponents in the Republican Party, because he had the wacky idea that it was simply not good enough to smash slavery-- you had to build real racial equality (and he was doing a pretty good job of it too, until the Radical Republicans lost power and Reconstruction ended in 1871).

As far as your assertion that we are all in agreement on issues, I think this is largely true, but not totally. For example, I think our current economic and political system is so corrupt, that we need to dump it entirely and create a new system to establish true economic, political and social democracy. Many on DU just think we need the Democrats to control the White House and Congress and everything will be OK. I think that's a pretty big difference.

[Dookus]

70. *shrug*

that's a perfect example of what I mean.

Creating an entirely new economic and political system is unlikely to occur anytime soon. It's pragmatic to recognize that, while also recognizing that the vast majority of Americans DON'T want any such thing.

I want full health care now. Am I more likely to get it by holding out for a wholesale redefinition of our economic and political structures, or by electing Democrats who share the same belief?

[bigbillhaywood]

74. False dichotomy

Working to smash the current system and build a new one, does not necessarily mean you can never vote for progressive Democrats (or even moderate ones like Kerry) as a temporary, tactical measure. But I think people miss the forest for the trees. There are very large, structural problems with our government and our economy that simply voting Democrat will not solve.

Democratic control of Congress and the White House will not ensure workplace/economic democracy, it will not end the exploitation of workers in developing nations and it will not end wars of American imperial aggression. Seven military interventions under Clinton, not including funding the "dirty war" in Colombia against the FARC and trade unionists with "Plan Colombia". In all the years Democrats controlled Congress (and at times the White House as well), the US government was funding clandestine missions to smash popular movements and militant trade unionism in the third world. The Democrats have consistently supported Israel's occupation and oppression of the Palestinians. And currently, there are more Democratic politicians critcizing the way the Iraq War is being handled than there are stating that the Iraq War is just plain wrong.

I'm not the one ignoring political realities here. I'm all too aware of them.

[Dookus]

77. again

this all proves my point. We're not discussing issues, we're discussing tactics.

I think what you expect is unreasonable. The exploitation of workers in developing countries has ALWAYS been a problem in human history, and I don't know of any one panacea that will fix it. Powerful nations have ALWAYS fought wars, and again, I don't know of any one panacea that will fix it. That's not to say I think it's right, or that we shouldn't do what we can to change things, but you're asking for ENORMOUS cultural, social, political and economic changes that simply aren't going to happen any time soon.

Yes, most Democrats support Israel. So do most Republicans, and in fact, so do most Americans. Again, I don't think that's right, but I'm not sure a expecting a sudden, radical turnabout in US policy is reasonable.

If solving these problems were easy, they'd already be solved.

[bigbillhaywood]

83. I don't expect it to happen overnight either.

It will take years of organizing and the right objective material conditions at an opportune time in history to make the kind of changes I want to see. But if we just throw up our hands and say, America's not ready for any big changes, so I'm just sticking with the Democratic Party, then America will never be ready.

I'm going to die a revolutionary even if I never see the revolution, because I know somwhere down the line, when the time is right, the organizational work I put in will, hopefully, have formed at least part of the basis for a mass movement.

Progress occurs. Revolution occurs. If you had suggested back in the 1600s that Black slavery was wrong and that Blacks should have the right to vote, most would have called you an unrealistic "idealist". But in fact, there were such abolitionists from the very beginning. They were making very good headway around the time of the American Revolution, until the invention of the cotton gin. But their ideas and activism laid the groundwork for the Harriet Tubmans, the William Lloyd Garrissons, the Frederick Douglasses, and the John Browns who came later and were instrumental in smashing slavery.

Go ahead and call me an idealist, but if a social and economic crisis occurs in this country that makes it ready for some big structural changes, then I want the organizational groundwork done and to be ready for it. I call that being pragmatic.

[TransitJohn]

159. You're much more likely to get it

if you move to another western "white" democracy, the USA is too profit-driven. </sarcasm>

[LWolf]

105. I agree.

I'm the defiant idealist. I see both sides, but I am what I am.

Idealist to the core. It never works when I try to be other than who and what I am.

[Chili]

146. yep, agree...

...I have no problem with the idea that Democrats need to be more aggressive. I just think we need to win the election first. It should be our first and only priority. Whatever it takes, however much it take, whatever needs to be done. Win the election, have the ideological war later. Puts me in the pragmatist category.

[Bandit]

4. This is the Underground.. If you want mainstream there are other sitres.

We are not mainstream here. Nobody considers DU to be mainstream. That will not change. If Moderates or Centrists feel like they don't belong then maybe they don't. If we were a Centrist site with Moderate views we certainly would not be called the Underground. Is that too difficult a concept to understand?

[Redleg]

6. Who said you get to define what DU is all about?

Just asking.

[Bandit]

22. Oh I guess to you Underground means ?????????????

:shrug: Whatever blows your skirt up. I know what underground means to me and it ain't mainstream.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. Geez...

Where else can you go to blow off steam about the Simian In Chief....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. There Are One Percenters Here....

but you need to get more than one percent of the people to agree with you or you can't accomplish anything...


Speaking figuratively I guess we can sit around here in one big circle jerk and compliment each other on our ideological purity....

[bread_and_roses]

68. A majority out there support so called "liberal" values...

...living wages, environmental protections, health care for all, even welfare if you say "should government help poor people" instead of calling it welfare.

That we can't get even mainstream democrats to stand up with conviction for such simple and basic equities speaks volumns.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Wild eyed, idealistic, irreconcilable, socialist, anti-war..

and have been ever since the USMC wanted me to kill Cubans because Fidel had a beard and dared to say that the USA didn't have a right to own Cuba.

[bigbillhaywood]

18. Yeah!

[LTR]

8. Just to the right of Mandela and The Dali Lama

Economic Left/Right: -3.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.05

[bigbillhaywood]

21. Funny that this politicalcompass puts the Dalai Lama and Mandela in

the same category. Mandela was (and I stress was) a socialist, more or less, while the Dalai Lama represents the feudal/theocratic order of old Tibet. Also the Dalai Lama is a peacenik and Mandela believed in armed struggle. Funny what happens when people stop being political leaders and start being icons.

[Dogmudgeon]

9. I thought I was a "moderate"

But my scores were:

Economic Left/Right: -8.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.44

Does this mean I can Speak Truth To Power right away, or do I have to start chanting "they'll have to EARN my vote!" first?

:evilgrin:

--bkl

[name not needed]

11. my score

Economic Left/Right: -7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.87

[emulatorloo]

12. my scores, and dookus is right on target

Economic Left/Right: -7.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.05

Big arguments are between idealists/perfectionists and realists/pragmatists.

[Cobalt Violet]

13. I'm very left libertarian

Economic Left/Right: -8.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.95

[Sparkly]

14. I'm way wild-eyed, I guess

-8.62 and -7.90

[Mikimouse]

19. Hey, cool; at least I'm not alone in that lower part of the quadrant...

Bring on the establishment! Guess I haven't lost my old activist directions in my old(er) years.

[AndyTiedye]

15. Lefty-Libertarian

-6.38 x -7.95

which is an area that is a political no-mans-land, it seems.

Nobody like that ever gets elected anywhere.

[BayouBengal07]

17. Well, answered with a lot less "Strongly________" this time.

Economic Left/Right: -3.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.56

I kind of toned down my responses (I've taken this quiz before, and usually get in the mid -4s and -5s)

[calico1]

20. Me too!

-6.25 and -7.08

[bigbillhaywood]

24. That's because most left libertarians prefer revolution to electoral

politics. The Spanish Revolution of 1936 was led by left libertarians, as was the 1920 general strike in Italy. Emiliano Zapata (of the Mexican revolution) probably falls in that category as well. Left libertarians also played a role in the 1917 February Revolution in Russia, as well as the 1924 Kronsdadt rebellion. Left libertarians of the anarcho-syndicalist strain in the IWW also led important strikes here in America.

[Warren DeMontague]

117. Well That's An Awfully

Wobbly Thing To Say.
:party:

[Mikimouse]

16. Well now, that was certainly enlightening... I am...

Economic Left/Right: -8.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.18

SO, I guess that I am just as crazy as my friends have been trying to tell me for many years. The only two examples provided in the same area of the graph are Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama.

By the way, I will add that the methodology behind this 'survey' is really quite atrocious. The wording in the questions is not readily responded to in terms of the possibilities, and some of the questions are just bloody awful because they leave the actual intended content to subjective interpetation.

[DaveSZ]

27. (-6,-6)

Does that make me a socialist?

I guess left of center is socialism.

I would probably cap income taxation at about 50% though.

I'm closer to the Greens than Dems, and I vote for them if I can on the local level.

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. I certainly consider myself to be a socialist

Not the least bit ashamed of it either. ;)

[Mikimouse]

41. Wear it proudly!

n/t

[Mikimouse]

40. You, you, you.....SOCIALIST!

Well OK, a cap of 50% on the rich, but include the abolition of private (estate) property, establish Durkheim's Ideal Democracy with single term limits; Maybe we can make a deal?:hippie:

[bigbillhaywood]

30. Libertarian Socialist

In other words, social libertarian and economic democrat (that's democrat with a small "d"). I subscribe to various elements of Marxism, anarchism, and syndicalism-- though I regard none as gospel. My ideology is one of economic, political and social democracy. My methodology tends to be union-oriented (syndicalist), but I am not so arrogant as to believe I have the absolutely correct prescription to correct economic and social injustice. I have my ideas about how such change may occur, but I am not bound to them if evidence suggests another path.

[JHBowden]

31. Moderate; E -1.88, S -3.59

eom

[DaveSZ]

32. How close do you think FDR was to being a socialist?

He was probably the most left-wing president we've ever had, though there are those in the Congress, and who have served in the past in Congress, who are socialists.

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. Didn't FDR co-opt the agenda of a socialist/populist who was running

against him?

*Need to crack some history books open, I do.*

[bigbillhaywood]

38. Yeah, but more importantly he was simply responding to a huge

strike wave, being led by Communists and other radicals. Daily riots, and large demonstrations of the unemployed councils (also Communist-led). Many industrialists and politicians believed the New Deal social and economic reforms were necessary to "save capitalism from itself" and avoid Communist revolution.

If there were no Great Depression, no strikes, no revolutionary organizations stirring up shit, there would have been no New Deal. Politicians (D or R) rarely do the right thing out of the goodness of their heart-- they do so in response to popular organization, protest, strike and boycott (another good example is JFK and Civil Rights Act-- you really think that would have happened with out the boycotts and marches?)

[Kanary]

113. Guess we need another depression...... a severe one

It's too bad that it takes such hardship for people to start thinking straight.

It's been, what...... 70 years, and we're now worse off, politically, then we were before the Depression.

Sux, is what it does........

Kanary

[GreenPartyVoter]

123. I think we may be headed that way.,. toward a repeat of the Gilded era

and everything that followed in the few decades afterward. At least I sincerely hope that we get the kinds of reforms we had back then, if not even more amazing ones.

[Kanary]

124. I'm ready for more amazing. ^_^

I've been collecting good info about Universal Health (some of which is posted in the Health forum), and one of te latest was a comparison with Canada, dispelling the ugly talking points we're getting to frighten us away. I'm bringing it up whenever I can, and in that way, hope to be spreading the idea that we can actually have what other countries have! What a concept.....

Kanary

[GreenPartyVoter]

125. It is unbelievable how maligned social democracies around the

world are here in the USA. Goes to show what corporate-owned media, a troubles education system, and lower and middle classes too poor to travel and actually see the rest of the world will give you.

IGNORANCE!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. He Was A Keynesian

not a socialist...


Those on the far left and far right would like to make FDR into a socialist to further their own agendas....

[JHBowden]

37. I don't know what the criterion of being a socialist is.

It is easier to compare who is more or less socialist than who. FDR implemented price controls during the war, but nothing like what went on everyday in the USSR or the later PRC. I would say not close at all, since our democracy and business community remained intact.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Nixon Instituted Wage And Price Controls In 1971.

Was He A Socialist?

[bigbillhaywood]

43. Uhhh...

"I would say not close at all, since our democracy and business community remained intact."

Who says socialism is inherently undemocratic? And please don't give me examples of Leninist-influenced societies like the USSR or China, since not all socialists are Leninists.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. You Should Read Charle Lindbloom's Politics And Markets....

Even though he argues for democratic politics and central planning he points to the fact that there is not one country that has a democratic government and central planning...

[bigbillhaywood]

56. Not a good argument

Like I said, that is because all modern Communist States were influenced by the 1917 October Revolution and Leninism. They adopted a specifically non-democratic form of revolutionary organization, so of course their systems were undemocratic. Leninism is not the only form of socialism-- it is, unfortunately, the only kind of socialism that has been put into practice in an entire nation-state for a reasonably long period. Although you can find many examples of socialist microcosms that ran democratically, but were smashed by the state (worker occupied factories, for examples). And even a few short-lived socialist revolutions that operated more or less democratically (Spain 1936 for an example).

However, using the example of Leninist societies to discredit all socialism as undemocratic is unfair.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. Charles Lindbloom Was Sympathetic To Socialism....

We need to define socialism....

[bigbillhaywood]

96. My defintion:

The means of production (factories, other large businesses) are collectively owned by society at-large and run in the interests of society at-large in a democratic manner. Those who operate the means of production (workers), democratically self-manage operations.

The method of how to plan and coordinate production and distribution is up for debate in my mind, but I tend to favor the syndicalist method (control and coordination of production by democratic labor unions). Distribution could possibly be decided by popular assemblies/delegations. I am still undecided on what the method of remuneration for work would be.

I basically see socialism as applying the principles of political democracy and equality to the economy. Corporations currently operate as autocracies (which in turn corrupt the political structure through their influence). As far as the method to best achieve this democracy, I have my own ideas but unlike many socialists, I do not regard them as infallible. But again if I had to boil down what socialism means to me in one phrase it would be: Economic Democracy.

If you are looking for a singular, objective definition of socialism-- I don't think there is one, given the many different schools of thought on the subject. I think it is easier to define what socialism IS NOT than what it IS.

[GreenPartyVoter]

33. My hubby landed almost perfectly on the crosshairs of the grid

He was raised in a religious RW household, though, and tends too, towards some freeper-like beliefs.

To be honest. I was shocked with where he landed on the grid. Expected him to be further right and upward. But he wouldn't let me peek over his shoulder as he took the test, so I have no clue what was going on in his head. *g*

[DaveSZ]

42. Just for fun:

I took the test pretending I was Bush:

Economic Left/Right: 7.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 8.26

[curse10]

36. Economic Left/Right: -4.88

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.18

[DaveSZ]

49. .

That's the difference between Stalinists and libertarian socialists.

The libertarian (left) socialists care more about civil liberties, and the Stalinists will stamp a boot on your neck and shoot you in the back of the head.

[LoZoccolo]

44. This thread is stupid.

I'm not so interested in someone's X and Y coordinates - nor bragging about my own - so much as I am interested in what's true and not true, what works and what doesn't.

[bigbillhaywood]

58. I already know your political orientation from your previous posts

anyways. It is conservative Democrat. Here's an idea-- if you think the thread is stupid, just ignore it and post elsewhere.

[Forkboy]

169. Maybe you can start another thread about Nader's penis size

We wouldn't want any "stupid" threads or anything!

[Seeking Serenity]

45. That was a stupid quiz

Badly worded questions that presented many false choices.

NexT!

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigbillhaywood]

59. Has muddleoftheroad resurfaced? nt

[Forkboy]

170. Yes,but that's not him

[Seeking Serenity]

172. "but that's not HE"

And besides, this he's a she.

:-)

[Forkboy]

173. either way

you ain't it ;-)

[bigbillhaywood]

174. Then who? nt

[guruant]

47. label

Economic Left/Right: -2.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.54

I'd label myself as a democratic capitalist.

[Bjornsdotter]

48. Very Liberal

Hi,

I'm very liberal....think Scandianvian liberal.

I took the test a long time ago but it was waaaay in the liberal territory.

Skol,
Kim :toast:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

50. I'm out there with you...

Economic Left/Right: -8.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.85

[scarletwoman]

51. Heh. I'm WAAAAAAAAY "wild-eyed"! --9.50 & -8.46

I've apparently gotten even MORE radical since the last time I took this. First time I was in the -8 and -7 range.

What can I say but, Vive la révolution! Workers of the World Unite! Power to the People! :D

sw

[Swamp Rat]

167. I guess I'm closest to you, here at DU.

Economic Left/Right: -9.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.56

I always thought Gandhi was a bit conservative...

[FlaIndie]

55. fairly moderate left

Economic Left/Right: -1.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.82

[GreenPartyVoter]

78. Welcome to DU :^D

[camero]

57. Left Libertarian

-8.25 on economics. -5.75 on Social.

[guruant]

60. Here's a much better quiz...

http://www.orgburo.com/pofo.php

"These characteristics would put you in the overall category of libertarian. "

"You scored 26 out of 100 on a scale of Individual vs Social.This means that politically you are less likely to value the need for group actions and group benefit over individual enterprise and benefit."

"You scored 75 out of 100 on a scale of Theist vs Materialist.This means that politically you are more likely to believe that religion and spirituality are superstitions that should not inform political debate."

"You scored 46 out of 100 on a scale of Nationalist vs Internationalist. This means that politically you are neither more nor less likely to favour international bodies over national ones."

"You scored 100 out of 100 on a scale of Big Government vs Small Government. This means that politically you are more likely to believe that government should keep out of legislating social policies, leaving such decisions to individuals."

"You scored 69 out of 100 on a scale of Protectionist vs Free Trader. This means that politically you are more likely to favour free trade over protectionist policies."

"You scored 61 out of 100 on a scale of Absolutist vs Non Absolutist. This means that politically you are less likely to believe that there is an absolute truth that may guide your ideological beliefs."

"You scored 45 out of 100 on a scale of Controlled Market vs Liberal Market. This means that politically you are neither more nor less likely to believe that there is need for government regulation of industry."

[playahata1]

71. I took this test.

They said I was a COMMUNIST. I don't feel comfortable with that designation.

[Solon]

95. Hell I took it and I'm...

a social conservative protectionist. Most of the questions were the stupidest I have ever seen. Agree or disagree with facts? Think about this question, "Do Classes exist, and if so, do they exploit other Classes?"(Paraphrase). OK, I said neutral, because, either way you are marked the wrong way, its a statement of FACT not a political statement, only one of education. Half the questions were like that. There was nothing on Single-Payer Health Care (I support), or on a number of issues near and dear to me. It's all about context, most of these questions make little to no sense without context, so how the hell am I supposed to agree or disagree? Wish they had a "It depends" option.

[Solon]

97. Hell I took the Political Compass Quiz...

I'm the most radical of all of you!!!! (even though some of the questions on their are just as stupid, I mean, what the hell does kids keeping secrets from parents have to do with politics?)

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -9.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.95

[GreenPartyVoter]

107. You are such a fringe lunatic, I am amazed that you didn't

fall off the chart. ;)


As far as the privacy question, I would guess it has to do with sorting out the participant's thoughts on individualism and authority and all that.

I do think they could revamp the quiz with better questions, but it is still one of the best quizzes I have seen so far.

[Solon]

154. Yeah me too...

could never vote the Green Party...TOO CONSERVATIVE!!!! ;)

I just wish that these quizzes would have better questions, especially related to context and certain issues. They thing that is messed up is that that childrens "Question" is actually a fact, its kind of like saying this "Is the World a Sphere--Agree or Disagree?" that's my problem with questions like that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

118. If you think that's a statement of fact

then obviously you strongly agree with it. If you've answered 'neutral' to several questions like this, I suggest you go back and do the test again - your answers won't have reflected your real views. For questions that you want to say 'it depends', then a neutral answer may be the best (but if you think you tend mostly to one side, you can go with 'agree' or 'disagree'). I suspect it's an international test, so it doesn't get too specific with current American political issues (though who knows how they use the "who would you vote for in the USA" question).

[GreenPartyVoter]

79. I'll check it out. Might be a good one to add to the collection on

my website since no one test really is perfect.

[AbbeyRoad]

102. I'm a Marxist according to this quiz. n/t

[playahata1]

63. -8.88 (economic left/right) and -6.82 (social libertarian/authoritarian)

Libertarian Left

[hansolsen]

65. You tell me

I'm not against all wars, but I'm against this war.

I'm for a universal draft, with some going in the military and some in the peace Corps.

I for a balanced budget even if that means raising taxes and cutting spending.

I think there is too much violence in Hollywood movies, and I don't want my granddaughters giving some guy a blow a job when they turn 13. I'm in favor of leaving Iraq alone and invading Hollywood.

I believe in a women's right to choose, but I believe that choice should be made known.

I believe Gun control has been a raving disaster that has saved no lives and has costs us lots of votes.

My favorite president is John Kennedy.

So, on a liberal / conservative scale, where does that put me?

So

[Suspicious]

121. Not at all sure I want to know,

but would you clarify the following:

I believe in a women's right to choose, but I believe that choice should be made known.

Specifically, what do you mean by "made known"?

[hansolsen]

134. I believe the unborn fetus has a right that choice be made public

See items 20 and 21 in this list:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x114758

[Suspicious]

136. Unfortunately,

I thought that was what you meant...a modern version of the "Scarlet Letter".

While I respectfully (and vehemently) disagree with your sentiment, I am wondering - what would be the reason for this, other than to shame the woman and make her a target for the scorn of anti-choice crowd? How, exactly, does this benefit society - or, for that matter, the "unborn fetus"?

In other words, you would have the choice be legal, but the woman would be punished for her choice?

[hansolsen]

149. This policy would keep abortions legal and safe, but more rare

Men and women who use abortion as a casual and convenient form of birth control might take more care with how and when they get pregnant.

I know this idea has some problems, some costs, some down sides, but I tire of the endless destruction of our political process by people who oppose abortion on religious grounds. I seek a high ground that takes away their moral and ethical argument, defangs their weapons of attack on this issue, and leaves the nation with something the religious right might accept. Something that leaves abortion legal, but less conveniet. It leaves abortion legal, but attaches to it a high cost.

I don't know -- this may be a meaningless compromise with the devil -- but it is at least a new idea (at least I have not heard it proposed befor, that offers some hope for changing the dynamic of this divisive issue.

And thank you for your replies. I appreciate the chance to debate the issue.

[Colin Ex]

175. This is a pretty hot issue

I mean, saying that is going to get you in hot water wit a lot of people around here. But here's what I think (keeping it cool, of course -- I like calm discourse).

I think it's a little odd to think of abortion as a casual and convenient form of birth control. I mean, I could buy a condom, that's casual and convenient. She could take birth control, that's casual and convenient. We could go to the clinic, talk to a nurse and a counselor, and shell out three hundred dollars for a complex medical procedure -- not quite so casual or convenient.

Also, your argument doesn't specify anything on rape. Not sure what your visionary system does about rape -- I'm just saying.

As far as I can tell -- I consider myself a moderate when I'm in public debating this kind of shit, I'm all about compromise -- the religious right isn't particularly interested in compromise. When ideology is at stake people don't want to give an inch. And to back this up, I turn to the one Bay Buchanan.

Bay Buchanan spoke at my college. I saw her speak with a bunch of other progressive kids who were mad as hell about her presence. (Side note -- I was not too impressed with Bay Buchanan. Bay Buchanan kinda/sorta knows her subject matter but mostly just talks loud.)

I got the chance to ask her a question, and my question was along these lines: "When Clinton rejected the House bill banning intact D&E, he said that it made no exception for the life of the mother. Instead of sending back a house Bill with an exception for the life of the mother, the Republican majority let it die. My question is this: what role do you think compromise should play in the abortion debate, and do you think we can settle something?"

Bay Buchanan first said, citing Ronald Reagan, that life of the mother was bullshit (like I said, I wasn't too impressed with ms. Buchanan), and then she said that she felt the other side was ready to compromise. When I pushed her a little, she made it very clear that the only people she wanted compromising were the pro-choice movement.

Just my extensive two cents.

-C

[mdmc]

67. I 'm a caseworker - in a childrens program

The Political Compass

Economic Left/Right: -5.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.08
Authoritarian
Left





















Right
Libertarian

[GreenArrow]

69. I don't buy the pragmatic/idealist dichotomy

What passes for pragmatism is too often indistinguishable from expediency or familiarity; don't rock the boat...go along to get along. Pragmatists tend to expect little or nothing and so they get little or nothing, which is by and large okay with them. They are happy with an occasional bone. Idealists tend to expect a lot and get little or nothing, largely because they live in a world where the majority are pragmatists.

How many social movements have been brought about by "pragmatists?"

Just throwing things out here. I may think differently about things later.

What is pragmatic about what is going on in the country and world now? Is keeping troops in Iraq indefinitely pragmatic? Is spending obscene, unimaginable amounts of money on weapons and ways of killing, maiming, stealing from, and otherwise enslaving people pragmatic? Is the war on drugs pragmatic? Having the highest rate of incarceration in the free, industrialized world, is that pragmatic? Is predatory healthcare for profit pragmatic? Is polluting our skies, earth and waters, and otherwise wasting natural resouces pragmatic? Is failing to provide for the education of our children pragmatic? Is the widening gap between rich and poor the result of pragmatic policies? Are these things getting better or worse under the current modality of waiting for incremental change? It's not like any of the above started overnight.

Hell, I don't know. There are no easy solutions. There has to be room for cooperation and compromise. But given the direction we are heading there is increasingly less room to do so. It would be much easier to not have to bother with being an idealist.

[TahitiNut]

142. Idealists know where they're going.

Pragmatists settle for wherever they are. :shrug:

[Liberal Veteran]

72. Hmmm....fascinating.

Economic Left/Right: -7.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62

[Kanary]

75. I don't have the luxury of being "moderate"

The system, both Dems and Reps, are hell-bent on undoing all the New Deal programs, and the Johnson programs. Dems are not only NOT holding the line on cuts to these programs, they are doing their share of *instigating* cuts.

My survival depends on Dems realizing that people are dying and many more will die because of these cuts. "Moderates" who chant "we have to get rid of *, then we can worry about the state of our party" are allowing more cuts that are already in the pipeline. The deaths that will result will be silent, and not even garner any attention.

Given that I may be in that group, I certainly don't have the luxury of waiting for the party to get it's act together.

Kanary

[Pepperbelly]

76. -5 on both ... so what does that make me? nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

81. I'd say that makes you fairly liberal. You have to look at the graph

as the lower left quadrant being what we traditionally see as being "liberal" and the upper right quadrant as what we traditionally see as "conservative", with the crosshairs are being the moderate zone.

[Longhorn]

80. As a math teacher, any quiz that includes a Cartesian graph

has gotta be good! :bounce:

My scores: -6.12 and -6.87. I surprise myself!

[GreenPartyVoter]

84. Let's chart DUers out in Venn diagrams next! *lol*

[Warren DeMontague]

82. Economic Left/Right: -4.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.97

And while some here have recently tried to use "libertarian" as a pejorative, I'm still pretty damn proud of the fact that I sit in the same corner of of the graph as the Dalai Lama & Nelson Mandela.

[Tweed]

85. Economic Left/Right: -5.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.15

There you have it

[leftistagitator]

86. To the left of Nelson Mandela

Economic Left/Right: -7.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.67

[jpgray]

87. -7.38, -6.72

I suppose I'm a bit wild eyed meself. :silly;

[jpgray]

88. I'm only four diagonal squares away from the bottom-left corner!

Be afraid, DU.

:scared:

[Warren DeMontague]

104. Naw, That's Prime Real Estate

Frankly, It's the people on the top half of the graph that freak me out.

[AbbeyRoad]

90. I'm a wild eyed Libertarian Lefty

Economic Left/Right: -8.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.13

Compared to me, Gandhi's a moderate.

[bushwakker]

92. More Green Party agitation

divided we fall into the abyss

[bigbillhaywood]

98. Bullshit.

[Warren DeMontague]

103. Who's Divided?

Anyone here not voting for Kerry?

[GreenPartyVoter]

106. If you mean me

as far as the Green Party agitator, check my profile. No way management would have let me hang around so long if I was seriously sowing strife at DU. :)

[bigbillhaywood]

108. GreenPartyVoter

alert 'em

[bushwakker]

116. It didn't seem like there was huge debate going on right now

between various ideolgical sides - at least not in comparison to the primary season. The title of the post looked as if you were trying to provoke one.

[GreenPartyVoter]

122. Actually it was in response to the small skirmish in this thread

I probably should have referenced it in my OP. Sorry. :)

[oasis]

99. I'm to the left of the GOP and the Turd Party candidate they're backing.

[IronLionZion]

101. I'm a wild-eyed moderate

but political compass says I'm a left libertarian somewhat close to the center of the crosshairs.

I'm for sensible solutions and methods to acheive our common goals. If it weren't for moderates, the left and right would kill each other.

[MattNC]

110. Economic Left/Right: -1.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.28

n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

112. EVERYONE participating in this thread, please note

where the candidates landed on the grid.



Do you feel that they are marked accurately, or do you believe that if they took the test for themselves they would wind up in a different area of the grid? (I myself think * should be up and beyond Thatcher.)

[Kanary]

127. "Do you feel that they are marked accurately,"

I wonder what all went into these rankings. For instance, Kerry *used* to be quite liberal, and if they used all the votes he cast in the past, then that would explain why he is placed where he is. However, later years he has not been at that place with his votes.

Kanary

[Sugarbleus]

114. Mostly Democratic Socialist, a tiny part Liberal Libertarian...

Yikes...what stange bedfellows eh? lol

It's the best I can come up with. I am socialist because of the conditions of the poor here and around the world.

The libertarian part is mostly about civil liberties:Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I don't want to be forced to wear a helmut on a motorcycle. I don't want to be forced to pay auto insurance (extortion). I don't want to be forced to wear a seat belt. I don't want to pay $100 for a pack of cigarettes--there's already a lack of adequate, affordable, accessible healthcare available even for those who DO live a "pure" life so screw the argument about what one does with one's own body...will drive up healthcare cost blah blah. Healthcare insurances and HMO'S etc are a SCAM anyway. (extortion)

I don't want others telling me what to eat and how to live my personal life.

[Cats Against Frist]

115. How can I be to the left of Dennis Kucinich?

I feel pretty solidly middle left/libertarian -- and yet:

Economic Left/Right: -7.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.51

So who the hell are the people who would score plus scores in the authoritarian right? I don't even want to think about what goes on in their heads.

Not to mention the fact that Kerry & Edwards, supposedly IN the authoritarian right, are supposed to be our most "liberal senators."

Criminy.

[DaveSZ]

119. I also wonder where Kerry, Bush and Edwards would be

if they took the test themselves.

I'm sure * would be close to Hitler on the fascist scale.

[salonghorn70]

120. I'M A DLC Democrat

But I respect all of you and wouldn't slam any of you. Although I might diaagree with you.

:toast:

[DaveSZ]

126. quote

"The system, both Dems and Reps, are hell-bent on undoing all the New Deal programs, and the Johnson programs. Dems are not only NOT holding the line on cuts to these programs, they are doing their share of *instigating* cuts.

My survival depends on Dems realizing that people are dying and many more will die because of these cuts. "Moderates" who chant "we have to get rid of *, then we can worry about the state of our party" are allowing more cuts that are already in the pipeline. The deaths that will result will be silent, and not even garner any attention.

Given that I may be in that group, I certainly don't have the luxury of waiting for the party to get it's act together.

Kanary"


This is true.

Clinton repealed part of the New Deal (welfare), advocated and signed Reagan's dream into law (NAFTA), and was more right-wing than Nixon.

You wouldn't know it though from the glowing praise he receives here at DU.

I do wish we had real democracy here in the US.

[bigbillhaywood]

129. Amen!

And I'm an atheist.

[LiberalManiacfromOC]

128. -6 and -5.28

I'm next to Ghandi :D

[Nlighten1]

130. Interesting.

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -8.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.18

[The Commie]

131. Marxist

Overall, the PoliticsForum quiz considers you a materialist, small-government, internationalist, protectionist, non-absolutist, controlled-market kind of person, who also seems quite Marxist.

These characteristics would put you in the overall category of Marxist.



Individual vs Social

You scored 54 out of 100 on a scale of Individual vs Social. This means that politically you are neither more nor less likely to value the need for group actions and group benefit over individual enterprise and benefit.

46% of test takers were more individual than you.
51% of test takers were more social than you.



Theist vs Materialist
You scored 92 out of 100 on a scale of Theist vs Materialist. This means that politically you are more likely to believe that religion and spirituality are superstitions that should not inform political debate.

96% of test takers were more theist than you.
3% of test takers were more materialist than you.




Big Government vs Small Government

You scored 62 out of 100 on a scale of Big Government vs Small Government. This means that politically you are more likely to believe that government should keep out of legislating social policies, leaving such decisions to individuals.

57% of test takers were more big government than you.
40% of test takers were more small government than you.



Nationalist vs Internationalist

You scored 96 out of 100 on a scale of Nationalist vs Internationalist. This means that politically you are more likely to favour international bodies over national ones.

99% of test takers were more nationalist than you.
0% of test takers were more internationalist than you.



Protectionist vs Free Trader

You scored 24 out of 100 on a scale of Protectionist vs Free Trader. This means that politically you are less likely to favour free trade over protectionist policies.

11% of test takers were more protectionist than you.
88% of test takers were more pro free trade than you.



Absolutist vs Non-Absolutist

You scored 74 out of 100 on a scale of Absolutist vs Non Absolutist. This means that politically you are less likely to believe that there is an absolute truth that may guide your ideological beliefs.

94% of test takers were more absolutist than you.
4% of test takers were more non-absolutist than you.



Controlled Market vs Liberal Market

You scored 15 out of 100 on a scale of Controlled Market vs Liberal Market. This means that politically you are more likely to believe that there is need for government regulation of industry.

12% of test takers were more controlled market thinkers than you.
87% of test takers were more liberal market thinkers than you.



Marxist vs Non-Marxist

You scored 25 out of 100 on a scale of Marxist vs Non-Marxist. This means that politically you are more likely to follow the philosophies of Marx.

9% of test takers were more Marxist than you.
90% of test takers were more non-Marxist than you.

[Zen]

132. I'm close to Nelson Mandella, Ghandhi - not surprised :o)

-5, -3.8

[Character Assassin]

133. libertarian, whithout the need for silly online tests.

Always have been, always will be.

And that's small 'L', thanks.

[DaveSZ]

135. Character Assassin

Are you voting for Bush Character Assassin, or Mr. Badanarik?

Personally, I think Bush is a grave threat to civil liberties, and the House GOP leaderhip has proven itself to be also.

[Character Assassin]

161. I would never vote for Bush

Personally, I think Bush is a grave threat to civil liberties, and the House GOP leaderhip has proven itself to be also.

The Democrats have been no better.

[TrogL]

137. well to the bottom left

(spelling)
-6.38
-6.97

[doni_georgia]

138. -9.5, -6.97 here

Wow, I'm a liberal - big surprise there (not) - LOL

[TahitiNut]

139. I tallied this a year ago. Here're the results from about 250 responses..

FWIW, I'm ...

Economic Left/Right: -8.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.85

[Radical Activist]

141. -7.5 and -7.08

Which puts me somewhere around Gandhi and Nelson Mandela, or maybe even more liberal.

[Radical Activist]

143. They Show Kerry as more liberal than Dean

On their chart of Dem Presidential candidates. I think that's right. It's a pretty good chart and shows Kucinich and Sharpton far apart from the others as the only strong liberals that were in the primary.
http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/usprimaries.html

[kayell]

152. Posting the chart

This is such a good illustration of the narrow electoral choices that Americans face compared to voters in other countries.

[Radical Activist]

166. No doubt

Remember which candidates we were told over and over again didn't have a chance so we need not bother supporting them in the primary? They just also happen to be the two whose agendas run most contrary to the corporate media and the corporations that help fund the Democratic primary. Deaniacs are right about the media manipulating the primary, but that was going on long before December when the media finally turned on Dean.

Our choices are very limited and we generally accept it without question. Even if someone more liberal like Nader challenges that system we can count on other progressives to demonize and attack their own. How sad.

[Norquist Nemesis]

144. Maybe it's the beer....Econ left/right -5.88

Social/Libertarian -2.41

In the past when I've taken these, I've been between -2 and -3 on both scales.

[Chili]

145. I'm in good company

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -4.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.69

...puts me with Gandhi and Mandela, LOL.

[taxidriver]

147. hmm. it says i'm "libertarian right"

oh well.

[kiahzero]

148. I'm a commie, apparently: E -8.12, S -6.41

I still get called too moderate from time to time, though.

[mvd]

150. Here's how I came out

Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.08

I thought the social/authoritarian number might be a bit more towards the center - but I barely even answered "agree" to the civilized society always needing leaders and followers question. And I answered "disagree" to the school attendance being compulsory question, because I thought some kinds may need exceptions.

[kayell]

151. I always score as one of the more liberal here -8.75/-7.95

Economic Left/Right: -8.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.95

and I'm always surprised that I score this far left since so many of the answers to the questions seem so obvious to me. ;)

Added: Of course, in Europe, I'd be middle of the road.

So it's true that Kerry/Edwards would not be my dream ticket (I'm a serious Kucinich fan), but I am fully supporting them because the other possibility is so much worse.

After the fascists are gone I'll start worrying again about how to shape up the party or make the Greens a real choice.

[Pobeka]

155. Wild eyed pragmatist.

-5.75 Economic
-5.95 Social

And I have zero problem voting for Kerry/Edwards. I want a real improvement on the issues I care about, and Kerry will give me that on most issues.

First issue: I want an adult in the white house. Someone who can invite the french president over to america to do more than "see some cows".

[Nevernose]

156. I feel moderate; I test liberal -9.25, -7.64

Economic -9.25
Social -7.64

I'm apparently more liberal than Gandhi, Mandela, and the Dalai Lama.

[tjfreeman]

165. Kinky and friends

Say ... who are those two dudes talking with Kinky? Wonder what Kinky is telling them?


Defiantly not moderate:
-8.25
-7.95

I'm a practical radical:

. . . worked for Clinton campaign in SF in 92 and celebrated into the night after the election

. . . voted for Nader in 96, but then it was really a safe vote (by the time I cast my vote in Hawaii the election had already been called)

. . . participated in the NON-violent civil disobedience shutdown of the WTO in Seattle in 99

. . . would have voted for Nader in 2000 except that I had to go to my grandmother's funeral and didn't get to vote (the plane departed Oakland at 7am election day and I was registered then in Mendocino Co.). Would not have voted for Nader if I were not in a "safe" state. Argued with my radical friends over this for hours. . .

Not sure how I'll vote this year because I'm back in Hawaii and thus I really am free to vote my conscience. Really, there is absolutely no chance Bush could win Hawaii.

If I were anywhere but Hawaii I would definitely vote Kerry/Edwards, but I think this nation is going to have to make a much bigger change than that if we are going to avert catastrophe.

. . . was a Kucinich delegate at Hawaii State Democratic Convention this year and largely due to the Kucinich delegates who packed the "National and International Affairs Committee" we were able to pass quite a progressive slate of resolutions which somehow passed on the floor of the convention:


1. Resolution on Depleted Uranium weaponry
2. End United States of America's WMD's (Weapons of Mass Destruction)
3. Preservation of Democratic Elections in Foreign Countries
4. Resolution for Public Campaign Finance and Reinstatement of the Fairness Act
5. Citizenship for Veterans
6. Prohibiting the Forced Vaccination of the Military
7. Opposing Involuntary Extensions of Military Duty
8. Protection of Rights of Conscietntious Objectors
9. Resolution on the Military at Pohakuloa
10. End the Iraq War and Bring Our Troops Home
11. Concerning American Foreign Policy
12. Affirming the Democratic Party of Hawai'i's Commitment to Civil Liberties and Constitutional Protections
13.Preserving Our First Amendment Rights to Free Speech
14. On the Federal Marriage Amendment
15. Securing the Right to Counsel For All Detained Persons
16. Resolution Calling for the Impeachment of the President of the United States
17. Resolution Demanding Punitive Actions Be Taken Against Georgia Senator Zell Miller
18.Resolution on Promoting Peace and Non-Violence
19.In Support of Federal Department of Defense Employee's Collective Bargaining Rights
20.Eliminate Predatory Lending
21. Ending the "War on Drugs" and Expand Substance Abuse Treatment
22.Safeguaring The Human Rights of Chinese Workers
23.Resolution on Voter Verified Paper Trail
24. Resolution on National Health Care
25. Supporting the Reproductive Rights of Women and Women's Health Services and Health Decisions
26. End the Cycle of Domestic Abuse in the United States of America
27.Implement a High Priority Security and Emergency Protection Program for the State of Hawai''
28.Resolution Supporting Federally-Funded Education from Pre-school Through University
29.Resolution on Corporate Globalization
30.Resolution on Limiting Corporate Media Influence
31. Resolution Supporting Ratifiication of International Criminal Court
32.Supporting World War II Veterans Benefits for Filipino-Americans
33. Inititiative to Convert Military Spending to Education Uses
34. Urging a Just Policy Towards Israel and Palestine
35. Calling for An Investigation into U.S. Role in Haitian Coup
36.Resolution Relating to Redistricting Following a Decenial Census
37. Supporting the Development of OTEC-Based Production Plants in Hawai'i and the Pacific to Provide the United States with the Means to Stop Importing Oil
38. Urging All Democrates to Strongly Support Measures that Advance and Protect Women's Rights and Opportunities
39.Urging the Denial of City and State Tax Exemptions to Actus Lend Lease to Subsidize Its $7-Billion Army Housing Project Contract
40.Tax Equity and Fairness


if only....

[tjfreeman]

176. did anybody get the joke?

ten points for whoever knows who the guy talking is...

[TransitJohn]

157. Well, no surprise here

I've always considered myself a communist anarchist, but I've always known that that would never fly.

Economic Left/Right: -6.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.21

[Bettie]

158. I'm pretty liberal

Economic L/R: -7.38

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.51

[marlakay]

160. My scores were about what I thought

I am eco...-4.62 and social...-3.74 I believe a lot of the left's issues. I may not be poplular but I also think abortion like the gentleman said is too easy. I believe in choice but I watched both my daughters go through hell. You have to live things to really know how you believe then speak again about your beliefs!! Both of my daughters were on birth control when they got pregnant, my younger one the first ever to get pregnant on the shot. One was 17 (my older daughter at the time) and one was 19 when they got pregnant. My older daughter decided to keep the child and my younger one got an abortion. I was very sad for both of them but let them make the choice. I love my grandson but it encouraged my daughter to marry a man I begged her not to and has gone thru heck for it. My other daughter has moved on is married and just got B.A. does that make her better? Some liberals would say yes but I love both my kids and I watched what they went through. Yes the one who kept child went through heck but now she is happy, has a great job and marriage by a miracle worked out.

[Xerxes]

162. -7.50/-6.05

[Athletic Grrl]

163. I'm where I was last year...

In the 10% quadrant of the DU chart.

Economic Left/Right: -3.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.90

Makes me a moderate here, I guess. :shrug:

[Catt03]

164. I don't think this is me but

I am a Mandela/Gandi too

Economic -5.12

Social -3.08

I think of myself as financially conservative and socially left. I could never be a Gandi and turn he other cheek nor a Mandela and suffer in jail for 20 years because of a belief.

I am more a Dean.

[Swamp Rat]

168. -9.62/-8.56... I guess this puts me almost off the map. Go figure...

and I thought I was answering some of the questions conservatively.

Economic Left/Right: -9.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.56

[Trajan]

171. Economic Left/Right: -6.62 - Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.23

Hmmmmmmm ...

Im planted somewhere near Ghandi, Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama ....

According to this test: I am quite leftist/libertarian ....

Yet, I have battled quite a bit with leftists here on certain matters ... for instance: I disagree with the gross mischaracterizations of some supporters of groups like A.N.S.W.E.R, who cast wholesale condemnations of jews in sweeping generalizations and also praise arab extremism, even though that extremism promotes the murder of innocent human beings ....

I have battled with fellow liberals here regarding Iraq, where I wouldnt blame our own soldiers for what is happening (I SURE as fuck blame their LEADERSHIP), and I wouldnt simply leave completely, but would instead continue playing a role within an internationalist, consensus driven, multilateral peace keeping role ... EVEN THOUGH I utterly and completely rejected the premise for pre-emptively entering Iraq in the first place ...

It only goes to show: aspects of life are hopelessly complex and undefinable ...

[Domitan]

177. -3.76 (economic left)/-4.92 (social liberitarian)

makes sense