Celebs badmouthing Bush: Why not just ask why?

[neebob]

This fundraiser where Whoopi Goldberg and others made disparaging comments about His Bushiness was all over the news yesterday, along with Kerry's having said they were representative of American values - I'm guessing before the program, but none of the reports I saw said anything about the timing - and then later issuing a disclaimer.

You'd think someone would go hmmm ... why are so many public figures saying the same kinds of things about this person? Why is this happening? What inspires it? Could there be something to it?

But instead everyone just reacts to the comments and says the people who made them are bad. And Kerry looks like a boob (in my opinion) for saying he didn't agree. Wouldn't it have been more effective to just point out that this sure seems to be happening a lot lately to this one particular person, and then remind everyone that we have this thing called the First Amendment?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I agree with you

and I'm hearing more and more ordinary Americans making the same disparaging comments about Bush as the stars did. Seems to me that they are just reflecting public opinion.

Kerry should realize that Bush getting his knickers in a twist over this is only hurting Bush's cause, as more and more folks are viewing him as an imperialistic, thin-skinned, arrogant SOB.

[LittleApple81]

2. Look, I am trying to collect "TALKING POINT RESPONSES" to this.

NOBODY IS INTERESTED. Why not? I want to send the talking points to the Kerry Campaign... Maybe if I titled my post: "I peed on a Hummer today.." I would have gotten more interest. But here it is. I want input from people, seriously:
________________________________________

I am trying to collect points of response to Right Wingers’ demands to see the video from the New York fund raiser for Kerry/Edwards and their expectations for an “apology” because of what the participants said during the fund raiser:

Bush has never allowed videos from his $25,000-a-seat fund-raisers to come out. What does he say there and who shows up that he wants to keep it secret? We want to see those videos before we publish ours.

The Kerry/Edwards fund raiser was a voluntary show of support. His supporters expressed their own opinions. Democrats are for free speech and not muzzling people’s opinions.

Kerry/Edwards supporters who expressed their opinion did not lie or libel Bush. There is nothing to disavow.

Kerry/Edwards supporters did not incite to violence against Bush. Free speech is not to be disavowed.

Citizens are outraged at the Bush government's behavior. They have a right to express their outrage vocally and non-violently as these participants did.

Bush supporters (Limbaugh, Savage, Coulter) have expressed their opinion and desire that violence be exerted against anybody who dares contradict, oppose, or ask questions of the Bush government. We demand that the Bush campaign disavows these conservative supporters.

______________________

Anything else? I want to try to compile a good list to send to Kerry's campaign. Even if they don't pay attention, at least I feel like I expressed an opinion.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

[jilln]

3. how about...

the fact that when Cheney uses "inappropriate and vulgar" language in a completely uncalled for comment on the senate floor, AGAINST senate rules, the Republicans refuse to admonish him or even ask for an apology, yet when private citizens in a PERFORMANCE have something to say, they demand an apology. Complete hypocrisy. Performers have to watch what they say but the administration does not.

[LittleApple81]

6. Thanks. Will use your input. n/t

[KharmaTrain]

5. Violence Exerted By The Right??? That's A Bit Over The Top...

Let me agree with 90%+ of what you've written, and it'd be interesting if we could sit in on a Pioneers or Rangers fundraiser...I'll bet we hear the "L" word interspersed with all sorts of Chenney-isms.

While Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity & others have created visceral reactions from their listeners...and yes, some could take that the next step into violence; they personally haven't called on their readers/listeners to do a physical act. Let's be careful here on this slippery slope.

You're spot on when you say that the comments these entertainers and other speakers make are their own and this is their right to say what they want to whom they want and how they want. Kerry has no need to explain nor appologize as * does when Rush opens his pie hole with another slander and/or lie.

We knew this video was going to be bashed around, and I tend to think this was done on purpose by Kerry et al. Right now Bush bashing is getting to be fashionable. Look at the sky high ratings for The Daily Show, Letterman and other shows that take direct shots at this regime.

What are we doing? Trying to give creedence to the wingnuts that there was something wrong with what Whoopi said? Hell no! I'd love to see that DNC rally on C-SPAN...or put it on Comedy Central or whomever. Yep...let's follow it up with a Bushyboy lovefest with his "babies". Damn right, the wingnuts will squeal unfair. Screw 'em.

While I find most hate radio offensive, there's still that fine line these leeches stay away from...and that's inciting their listeners to do much more than suffer through a Toby Keith concert (like that Hannity tractor-pull Faux tried to play up the other night).

I give Kerry's people a lot of credit for the job they've done in "rolling out the product". Many here have been impatient, but with the final 3 months still to come, this is a marathon, not a sprint.

[LittleApple81]

10. Thanks for your thoughtful answer. You are right about the

Limbaugh/Coulter types not really sending people to kill other people... but their wishes for death and destruction of liberals are well known. I remember Coulter saying that she wished the 9/11 attack would have taken The NYT out... and other similar statements.

[KharmaTrain]

11. I Was Thinking Of That Coultergeistism...

Again, that was rhetorical and in hindsight as opposed to saying "I wish someone would send an Anthrax letter to Hal Raines" or whomever. But we know that saw her reaction when Wellstone died as to how "compassionate" she and others of her ilk are. We're better.

The talking points have to be blasted loud that there's a strong double standard here. Listen to all these belly-achers (I saw Joey The Intern Killer last night) and how they feigned the indignation (like it really offended them) and how he and other say the usual meme "well I didn't see the show/movie..." basing their "commentary" on pure second, third and nineth-hand jaded accounts. We have to shout out these "credible" sources when they report on things they neither saw nor heard either directly or on a tape we can all see.

Cheers!

[neebob]

7. Erm, sorry

I didn't see your thread.

[Career Prole]

8. Here's a talking point...

Before the war, whenever a celebrity spoke out against the war he or she was drowned by a torrent of vitriol from the right. The quotes should be quite easy to find, I should think...and it was very vicious stuff compared to what was heard at the benefit.

[LittleApple81]

12. Thanks. n/t

[Kipepeo]

18. My suggestions

Please demand that Bush disavow his supporter James Dobson (Focus on the Family dude) for publishing Michael Moore's home address in an email to his subscribers, in a dirty effort to intimidate and incite physical violence on someone for not supporting Bush.

Seriously, I think the four big points are:

Kerry should never cede ground on stupid manufactured non-issues like this. Distancing himself even in the slightest turns their manufactured non-issue into an real issue. I think it makes him look weak, like even *he* agrees with them. Bullshit.

Every time they pull this crap (like with this and the same way they pulled it with Moveon over the hitler ads that were dropped) I think our side should scoff when people bring it up. Point out more important issues and ask why the Republicans would rather criticize a comedian/ad/whatever instead of answer questions about Bush knowing the intelligence was faulty when he sent us into war, or about the unemployment rate, or about his destroyed military records, etc.

We could also point out that none of this came out of the mouth of Kerry, but from people who support him. Does Bush have to answer for everything that comes out of the mouth of people who support him? If so, I'd like him to make with the apologies for Santorum, Limbaugh, Dobson, Coulter, Kid Rock...on and on and on. Then bring up the fact that Bush and Cheney apparently aren't even responsible for what comes out of their OWN mouths. Cheney can use the F-word on the floor of the Senate and REFUSE to apologize. Bush can litter his interview with Tucker Carlson with the F-word, and where is the apology? Bush can say he and his dad like to talk about pussy, and he doesn't have to apologize?? Are these the values of the American people?

Finally, if they are going to manufacture stuff like this all the time, trying to put us on the defensive...why aren't WE ever putting them on the defensive over something stupid? We should be raising a stink about their lack of values and their hypocrisy every chance we get.

Edited to add one more thing: At least the celebs on the left don't think an action movie career makes for political experience. The celebs on the right RUN FOR OFFICE! Arnold Schwarzenegger, Ronald Reagan, Sonny Bono. There was even talk of Dennis Miller running for Senate in CA! I am So Sick of these Hollywood Conservatives blabbing their mouths and then running for office! ;) They don't represent mainstream America!

[finecraft]

4. Wasn't there a nasty Dennis Miller incident at a Bush fundraiser?

I seem to remember an incident at a Bush fundraiser where Dennis Miller said some rally nasty things about Democrats....and I'm sure there were plenty of horrid things said about Clinton during Republican fundraisers in 2000. Some jerk Repuke Rep. said on FOX this morning that "even though you may not agree with the pResident's politics, he is still the pResident of our country, and saying nasty, evil things about our "Commander and Chief" just isn't right". O.K. then.....let's drag out the video clips of republicans during Clinton's impeachment trial...I'm sure they were playing by those rules then (sarcasm off).

[elehhhhna]

9. Celebs are just jealous and hate freedom! eom

[bluedog]

16. it was about Sen Byrd

06/29/2003 Archived Entry: "Miller Emerges as New Voice for Bush Re-Election"

AT $2000 I WAS PRICED OUT: Despite the fact that I spent the night in the company of three attractive women, I think I would have rather been in Los Angeles. Dennis Miller gave a stand up routine during a Bush fundraiser. Okay, I'm not so sure I'd rather have been in LA...



Bush remained offstage until after Miller's often caustic comic performance during the fund-raiser that drew in $3.5 million, most of it in $2,000 checks from 1,600 people.

For instance, he took aim at West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd, a Democratic elder statesmen who has questioned the Iraq war and its chaotic aftermath.

Even some in the crowd of Republican loyalists booed when Miller said of Byrd: "I think he must be burning the cross at both ends."

Responding to the boos, Miller said: "Well, he was in the (Ku Klux) Klan. Boo me, but he was in the Klan."



Who were these people that booed? Democrats who walked into the wrong room?

Read on.

[LTR]

17. Bruce Willis got kinda raunchy at a GHWB event in '92

At the Gerald Ford Library of all places.

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V112/N53/bush.53w.html

In 1980, Bush won his first presidential caucus in Iowa and tried running as the candidate with "Big Mo," big momentum. He was soundly defeated because, many suggested, he based his candidacy on momentum not issues. "We don't do Big Mo," said campaign political director Mary Matalin. "we do C.O., cautious optimism." Their optimism is based on public and private polls that show a single digit race -- they say a six point difference -- and an electoral breakdown that while not good, at least makes a win remotely possible if the closing trend continues.

The whole Bush campaign, including the warm up speakers, were charged up Thursday. At the Warren event, Democratic state Sen. Gilbert J. Dinello churned the crowd into a frenzy by calling Clinton a draft-dodger, a liar and a man who "wails, whines and wimps out."

Actor Bruce Willis shouted into the microphone that Clinton was not qualified to be president. "I'm pissed off," Willis shouted, to hear the Democrat say he is qualified. At a later rally, this one at the Gerald Ford Library in Grand Rapids, Willis introduced the former president with the same complaints in language rare for a political rally.

(snip)

"Here is my appeal," he said. "Barbara and I both have tried to uphold the public trust. And character. Bill Clinton -- Bruce Willis mentioned this, Bruce Willis said that, I mean, Clinton said that it is not the character of the president but the character of the presidency. Wrong. They're locked in. They are interlocked."

[bluedog]

13. In House, Republicans use floor time to chide Kerry

Subject: In House, Republicans use floor time to chide Kerry
when the members of congress can use the peoples house to comdemn a man running for president.it can't get much lower than this:

Many of the remarks -- made under a rule that allows any member to talk about any topic for one minute at the start of daily sessions -- have been focused on Kerry's criticism of the Vietnam War and the handling of the postwar situation in Iraq. House rules for all floor discussions forbid members from ''characterizing another member's personal intent or motives, and discussing personalities." House decorum also bars lawmakers from ''referring to the specific votes of particular senators."


http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/...

[bluedog]

14. post your come backs ...to the repigs...............

:kick:

[no_hypocrisy]

15. It's called "begging the question" and "argumentum ad hominum", both

logical fallacies in order to avoid addressing the issue at hand. These devices, especially attacking the character of the debator (usually with the winning argument), are used to change the topic of the argument to an area s/he feels much more comfortable and sure to win the argument. Why look like a loser when you always have an ace in your pocket?