Way, Way Past Time To Label BushCo As Nazis

[Cyrano]

Concentration Camps? How about the torture chambers at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. Not to mention reports in the German press on child torture (backed up by Amnesty International and the Red Cross. Where the hell is OUR media on this story? If you don't buy it, Google it and get enlightened.).

Book burnings? Most people don't read anymore. The censoring of Nightline and Howard Stern. Trying to ban and/or boycott screenings of "FH 9/11." (There are still many school districts in the south and west trying to ban "Catcher in the Rye," "The Diary of Anne Frank," "Origins of the Species," "Catch 22," and many, many more).

Big Lie Theory? WMDs; Iraqi involvement in 9/11; mushroom clouds.

Terror alerts? Be afraid. Be very afraid. THEY are hiding under your bed waiting to kill you because Kerry and Edwards are out there campaigning.

If they win the upcoming election, we might very well see a rerun of Hitler's Germany. Radical? Overwrought? Show me where I'm wrong.

(This is an update of a posting I did a few months ago. I shudder to think what another update might look like a few months from now.)

[lastknowngood]

1. Damn strait

n/t

[shraby]

42. You need to go to

the Plame thread part 5.

[tritsofme]

2. Get real

If Dem operatives started calling bush and his cronies Nazis, watch the media crucify Kerry/Edwards.

Its not going to happen, and its a bad idea.

[Cyrano]

3. No one is saying to CALL them Nazis (in ads or speeches)

I've posted this as a fact, not a campaign slogan.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. Facts

I've posted this as a fact, not a campaign slogan.<<

Facts are stubborn things. They certainly do tend to get in the way of the spinmeisters... eh?

Nothing like taking Bin Laden's bait

[Cyrano]

6. Ummm, I miss the point you're making,

please elaborate. And while doing so, please show me which fact that I've posted is incorrect.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

14. Ooops.

please elaborate. And while doing so, please show me which fact that I've posted is incorrect.<<

You'll have to excuse me once again... I have an uncanny knack for being misunderstood... poor phraseology at times... anyhoo... the facts are getting in the way of the people who try desperately to spin the facts into something palatable for the American public... this includes their NOT covering certain issues until they absolutely have to.

I was agreeing with you 100% even though what I said probably didn't come out that way... many pardons.

[Eloriel]

40. the facts

the facts are getting in the way of the people who try desperately to spin the facts into something palatable for the American public...

This reminds me of an absolutely hilarious -- my MOST favorite ine ever -- from the Daily Show a few weeks ago, courtesy Rob Corddry:


Corddry: How does one report the facts in an unbiased way when the facts themselves are biased?

Stewart: I'm sorry, Rob, did you say the facts are biased?

Corddry: That's right Jon. From the names of our fallen soldiers to the gradual withdrawal of our allies to the growing insurgency, it's become all too clear that facts in Iraq have an anti-Bush agenda.


:-)

[nolabels]

47. That's easy, spin the facts and let them fall way side

Then spin the spin and your in.........



Photograph by: Marshall

Tornadoes
violently rotating columns of air

A tornado is defined as a violently rotating column of air in contact with the ground and pendent from a cumulonimbus cloud.



They can be categorized as "weak", "strong", and "violent"; with weak tornadoes often having a thin, rope-like appearance, as exhibited by this tornado near Dawn, Texas.

http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/svr/torn/home.rxml

[Character Assassin]

5. Sorry. Wrong.

It won't look any more foolish in a few months, either.

But, nevertheless, good of you to concern yourself about appearances.

[Cyrano]

7. I don't have a clue as to what you're response means.

Clarify what you're saying and I'll try to respond.

[Character Assassin]

12. I think your points are hyperbolic, unsupportable and childish.

I hope that cleared things up.

I'm speaking from a strictly historical perspective, of course.

[Cleita]

16. Gee torture, child abuse and rape, preemptive strikes on

countries that we have previously reduced to the Bronze Age with sanctions, weapons inspections, etc. that had nothing to do with the attack on our country in September 11, 2001. Concentration camps where prisoners are taken, never to have a trial or charges brought up. Propaganda distributed by our tabloid controlled media. Science being rewritten by religious nuts. I guess there is nothing like the Nazis here. If one never read a single book about it and knew what they were talking about, that would be true.

[Cyrano]

20. Thanks, Cleita. I was loading up my own WMDs, but you handled it for me.

[Character Assassin]

32. Please cite any reputable source that this admin has instigated rape

And keep in mind I think GWB is a horsedick president.

Science being rewritten by religious nuts"?

That's always going on, but I notice you have no solid examples.

"countries that we have previously reduced to the Bronze Age with sanctions"?

Please name just one country, and how, exactly, it is now 'bronze age'.

"Concentration camps where prisoners are taken, never to have a trial or charges brought up."

But this just changed, now didn't it? (HINT: the answer is yes)

Propaganda distributed by our tabloid controlled media.

Well, golly. How long do you think THAT'S been going on?

Science being rewritten by religious nuts.

Without specific exampes, and how they relate to this administration, your claim is empty

I guess there is nothing like the Nazis here.

You are in need of a serious, "stop-guessing" order from Sacremento.

[Cleita]

35. Well, if there is rape of children because of a war that

Mr. Bush spoke about vociferously, pushed past the UN and Congress with cooked up evidence of W-E-A-P-O-N-S O-F M-A-S-S D-E-S-T-R-U-C-T-I-O-N and we went to war to make Halliburton rich, I would say there is a load of proof there that the bad things that happened to little children because of our "coalition" could be directly credited to him. Some things just can't be shredded, expunged or "inadvertently" lost. Get real.

You are one of them if you think this is all right. I don't have to put up proof just for you. It is all over the internet from very credible sources.

[Character Assassin]

37. Your case remains unproven....

But thanks a lot, and I mean a LOT, for trying, even in the most tangential of manners(isms), of proving my case.


Pleae provide for me "credible sources".

Even one.

Please, please, please, please.

Remember to whom you are speaking.

You and I may be there......

[Cleita]

39. I won't because you really aren't interested. But I know others will.

Enjoy.

[Cyrano]

44. Hey, Clieta. Just got back on line and

have seen that you've been battling misinformed, illogical, juvenille and simply moronic rebuttals all on your own. Nice replies, all the way down the line. Sorry I wasn't here to help out, not that it would have made much difference given the skewed "logic" which you were fending off.

My congratulations and admiration for you're not suffering fools gladly.

(Putting on my raincoat for the crap that's about to come my way from those you've fended off.)

[Cleita]

45. Yeah, I will always defend those who are right from those

who just like to be ornery. They do display their true colors and ignorance eventually. I'm totally with the Nazi comparison. One has to be really blind and misguided not to see it.

[Cyrano]

46. Cleita. May the force be with you. Somewhere, Yoda is smiling

[Karenina]

53. One HAS to be really blind and misguided not to see it.

:toast: I have some elderly neighbors who survived "THE WAR" (this town was BOMBED TO SHIT) and who do NOT mince words. Herr F. knows ALL ABOUT Thyssen and Farben and their adventures. His take is, "If you're looking for "terrorists" first go check the stock exchange." He's SUCH a pip!

[Cleita]

8. But, but, but, Tucker says it's terrible to call our President a Nazi.

eom

[Cyrano]

9. Cleita, Cleita, didn't your mother tell you not to listen to men who

wear bowties?

[Cleita]

11. I don't, least of all Tucker.

I've done enough research on this to be really afraid. Everyone else who is a true American patriot and who wants to preserve our democracy should be aghast at what is happening. And, worse than that the should be twice as aghast that there are those apologizing for it, lying about it and *shudder* condoning it all underneath an American flag being waved.

[Still_Loves_John]

10. Good idea

Because the best way to win over fence-sitters is to scream "NAZI!" as loud as you can.

[Cleita]

13. Fence sitters, above all, should be taken to the trough where they

can look at the poisoned water they will be drinking if someone doesn't warn them and shout it loud and clear.

[Still_Loves_John]

15. And when you call your opponents Nazis

you won't convince them of anything. You can talk all you want about the horrible things Bush has done, and you'd have plenty of stuff to work with, but the minute you go "See? They're just like Nazis" you lose any credibility.

No good comes from calling Republicans Nazis; you only make liberals look paranoid.

[Cleita]

19. I don't call them Nazis. when I am out in the wingnut world.

I'm much sneakier about it. This is a left wing forum and we can call them Nazis because the jackboot fits and they are wearing it very well.

[Still_Loves_John]

24. Ok

Sorry, the thought of people calling them that in public makes me wince.

[ima_sinnic]

25. yes, when among the RWers or fence sitters,

merely the descriptive phrases will do, without the labels. let them draw their own conclusions.

[tom_paine]

50. I do say it in public. It is the truth and it shouldn't be shrank from.

Hasn't the Democratic Party Leadership and bullied media show you that?

Once you start yielding it never ends.

Just like with the Nazis.

"It vass alvays 'Churchil' ziss and 'Churchill' zat. Zey said Chruchill vass a better painter zan ze Fuhrer. But ze Fuhre could do a big room in one day. Two coats!"
--Franz Leibkin; "The Producers" by Mel Brooks

[ima_sinnic]

17. absolutely correct

... and the people in mid-1930s Germany had little idea what lay ahead and how they sowed the seeds and reaped the harvest of their own destruction. The processes are all too similar between that time and place and this one.

[Karenina]

49. America has NO EXCUSE

with all the privileges, access and benefits it enjoys at the expense of others to be SO IGNORANT. First there is the benefit of recent history. People are quite free to be "outraged" by the comparison to Nazis (which is entirely understandable coming from Holocaust survivors and their descendents) but I must assert that those so offended have obviously not examined the "process" that enabled such a genocidal maniac. Nor have they looked carefully at the stinking piles of elephant dung recently deposited on their perfectly manicured front lawns.

Secondly, a little "connect the dots" game anyone who wishes to inform him/herself can play is "Spot the Nazi." All you need to do is go back to Allen Dulles, the OSS and the formation of the CIA and check out who got new identities and lucrative jobs and WHERE. Then check out Prescott Bush's financial dealings. THEN check out WHO shows up on the NIXON/REAGAN/BUSH I personnel list. (IIRC a few got "outed" under Poppy). It's an eyeopener and the WONDERFUL thing is you can find every corroborating link you could EVER WANT right here in the archives!!!

Anybody wanna play? ;-)

“Ignorance is an evil weed, which dictators may cultivate among their dupes, but which no democracy can afford among its citizens.”

- William H. Beveridge, 1944

Thanx to WPitt for the quote. Found it applicable here.

[Cleita]

51. Well said Karenina.

We can't let the right pretend they are not who we know they are.

[BillZBubb]

18. It's a very bad idea to call them Nazis. It's counterproductive.

They are fascists. Bush* has much more of Mussolini in him than Hitler. Bush is a sociopath, but he doesn't share Hitler's fanaticism about race.

He'll use ultra nationalism and fear like il Duce, he'll do everything to enrich the wealthy industrialists and his cronies like il Duce, he'll get us into phony wars against overmatched enemies where we come out looking inept like il Duce, but he won't set up extermination camps like the Nazis based on wacko theories of superiority.

So, yeah, calling them Nazi's is overwrought. Calling them fascists is not.

[Cleita]

21. Oh for God's sake. Why are fascists more politically correct?

They all do the same thing. Look into Chile during Pinochet's regime. He didn't miss a Nazi trick and probably could have taught them a thing or two.

[BillZBubb]

34. It's not a matter of political correctness, it's a matter of accuracy

People associate Hitler primarily with the mass extermination of the Jews. If you call Bush* a Nazi, people then think, "well where are the death camps and the millions of dead bodies"? Since they don't exist, you are dismissed as an extremist for calling him that. It's a charge that really has no impact. It's not a good analogy.

Calling them fascists, though, does have impact. Particulary if you point to Mussolini. The similarities there are undeniable and you can't get quickly dismissed over the "final solution" hole in the comparison.

Pinochet was no Hitler. He was a minor league Franco.

[Cleita]

36. Well, it looks like we have death camps.

He hasn't had time to exterminate six million people yet. It took Hitler more than ten years. But keep thinking that it won't happen. Also remember that Hitler didn't think this up all by himself. He had to allow his guys some leverage to do the things they liked to do so he could keep their loyalty.

[Cyrano]

41. Okay, so let's wait for millions of dead bodies before we call

BushCo Nazis. My frustration runneth over. What is it going to take before people grasp the fact that Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft et al. have an agenda that has nothing whatever to do with the country that we call America?

These people will do whatever it takes to hold onto power, increase their own wealth and keep everyone else in as much terror as possible while they go their merry way?

[Poiuyt]

22. I've said this before and I'll say it again

Bush is not as bad as Hitler. I don't think he's as bad as Stalin either.

[ima_sinnic]

23. er, "not as bad as"--??

since when are there degrees of evil?

[Cleita]

27. Bush hasn't had time to get that bad yet as far as we know.

But what we have discovered now is so heinous, I can't understand why you are you defending him. Remember that the horrid things that Hitler and Stalin did was not advertised in the papers in their countries. Their citizens were kept in the dark and unless they knew someone who was scooped up and disappeared no one knew what was going on. They also did know it was best to keep their mouths shut, which is what you are advocating we should do now.

I lived through those times so I have a more personal perspective than you who see it as history. I talked to the people who came out of the Europe of those times and immigrated here. It wasn't pretty.

[Jack Rabbit]

29. Agreed

Hitler murdered millions. Bush is still on his first hundred thousand.

Let's do him a favor and not give him the time.

[Poiuyt]

30. I think I was being sarcastic

:)

[Cyrano]

28. Okay, let's just sit around and wait for him to get that bad.

I pesonally know concentration camp survivers who couldn't believe that what was happening was actually happening, because they considered themselves Germans, not Jewish Germans.

I don't know what it takes for people to get their heads out of their asses.

No one is suggesting that we campaign on these issues.

However, it is imperative that we undrstand that IT CAN HAPPEN HERE!!!

BushCo has all the ingredients needed to become that dreaded Gestapo stereotype that we all fear. Over the top? Why take the chance? Do everything in your power to stop them while we still can. Including paper trails on our ballots.

[Karenina]

52. *dimWit dauphin himself isn't fit

to shine der genocidal maniac's fossilized turds. However the secret gub'mint (controlled by Cheney and others whose names and connexions you will surely not recognize) for which he fronts has at its fingertips the firepower, technology, $$$$$$, fanaticism, unquestioned belief in their sense of superiority and the potential,(we'll leave aside for a moment their stated publicized positon paper- you might want to read it sometime) to COMPLETELY DWARF HITLER'S CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

They have also LEARNED a VERY IMPORTANT LESSON from their predatory predecessors... HIDE THE EVIDENCE. If you live in America it's ALL AROUND YOU like the ash on the windowsills in the Dorfs surrounding the gas chambers and crematoriums.

Seen any amputees at the mall lately? Seen any coffins returning on TV? Know any families in severe economic stress due to outsourcing? Has your quaint downtown area been bankrupted by Walmarts? Anyone you know need to see a doctor and has no health care? How are the ponds and streams doing? Did you used to drink out of them as a kid? Would you DARE do so now??? These are just a few things that lead to DEATH AND DESTRUCTION of a civilian population. But THIS TIME, no statistics, documentation or nasty pictures to hold those responsible accountable.

And *dimwit's military records have DISAFUCKINAPPEARED!!! "Inadvertently" destroyed! My goodness. Imagine that. :eyes:

[Jack Rabbit]

26. Dissenting

Bush is not Hitler. The Nazis set a standard for evil that will not be equaled anytime soon.

Nevertheless, Bush is Bush and that's bad enough. There can be no doubt that while he is nowhere near the evil that is manifest in the Nazis, Bush and the neoconservatives occupy the same niche in our time that Hitler and the Nazis occupied in theirs.

Bush and the neocons may not be Nazis, but they are still war criminals.

[AlFrankenFan]

31. That's just stooping to their level

We don't want to win that way.

[Cleita]

33. This isn't about winning. This is about the truth.

We have won already in a fair election. They haven't pulled out their bag of tricks yet. You can scratch the word fair off to begin with. Unless we are aware of who they are, we will win but Bush will be President. It happened the last time didn't it?

Remember we were comparing them to the Nazis long before the pre-emptive war, the concentration camps, the torture, the child rape, the rewriting of history and expunging of documents and all those other Nazi things occurred. It seems many of us should be lauded as prophets. Do you want this to go further?

[Swamp Rat]

38. Yep. They are the original recipe with a few new spices added.

This recipe is very old and goes by many names, but tastes the same every time.

I have no problem with calling them Nazis. What I find interesting is reading all the contrived answers and justifications for NOT calling them Nazis, etc.

[shraby]

43. Check out the Plame indictments thread part 5

[nolabels]

48. The more I read the more it makes too much sense

I figure we in for at least four more years of something that is not too good, I hope it is not with the Bushco Nazi's but at any rate some kind of awakening is occurring, and the world probably will never be same tranquil place it was before.

Even if Bushco is vanquished, we still be saddled the same corrupt system that spawned it



BOOK REVIEW
A case against self-annihilation
Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance by Noam Chomsky

Reviewed by Piyush Mathur

Keep your critic close to you - s/he beautifies your yard;
without water or soap, s/he cleanses you!
- Kabeer Das

In a spot-on essay titled "The Loneliness of Noam Chomsky", Arundhati Roy dared to state the obvious: Noam Chomsky, the globally celebrated pro-democracy activist and intellectual from the United States, remains isolated at home even as the nation continues to tout its democratic traditions (The Hindu, August 24, 2003). As if in a compensatory gesture of superlative recognition from the rest of the globe, Roy noted, "When the sun sets on the American empire, as it will, as it must, Noam Chomsky's work will survive."

Roy's conviction aside, the posterity of Chomsky's work - its future survival - is as open a question as the end of US hegemony; Chomsky's isolation in the Anglo world, on the other hand, received fresh certification in the early reviews of Hegemony or Survival.

For instance, Nick Cohen of The Observer (UK) spent more than half of his review on a vague diatribe against "the Left" and chastised Chomsky for being "the master of looking-glass politics" (December 14, 2003). Samantha Power, writing for the New York Times, was hardly charitable (January 4, 2004).

"But for all that is wrong with Hegemony or Survival," Power conceded only "two reasons" for "reading Chomsky today": one, the fact that "his critiques have come to influence and reflect mainstream opinion elsewhere in the world", and two, the catastrophe that "the radicalism of the Bush administration has laid bare many of the structural defects in American foreign policy, defects that Chomsky has long assailed".
(snip)
http://atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FG10Aa01.html