Are there any DU'ers that can admit that they were wrong about Iraq?

[JanMichael]

I mean the ones that supported Bush's war. Those that argued how justified the Invasion was and how stupid the anti-War DU'ers (Protestors etcetera) were.

I remember a few. Are they still here?

If so do they (you?) regret your being hoodwinked into supporting the Invasion by administration lies and liars?

PS~ This really stems from Tony Blair, the man seems almost pathological in his insistance that he was "right". I can imagine it must be tough to be so bloody wrong...

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. I will be Hella Surprised...

If you get the responses you are looking for.

[Cocoa]

2. there was one

I wish I remember his name, but he firmly and outspokenly believed there were WMD, and when he realized after the invasion they weren't there, he admitted he was wrong.

[JanMichael]

3. I don't remember hearing any of them bucking up and saying that.

But it's nice to hear that you have.

[phaseolus]

6. that wasn't Carlos, was it?

...or whatever his name was? Jiacinto? Around since the beginning, had lots of enemies, played this "I'm so depressed" act to get sympathy, and later shows up on a conservative board chuckling about what he pulled over on some of us??

[JanMichael]

7. Really? I can't imagine he'd be that stupid.

"and later shows up on a conservative board chuckling about what he pulled over on some of us"

No...

[salin]

42. I never caught that part of the show...

and somehow it doesn't quite seem to ring true. For all of his differences, I generally think he was sincere... can't see him as a "hoodwink" sorta poster.

While he sometimes expressed concern that the loud voices in the antiwar movement might have a negative effect upon general public perception (back in the time when public perception had not turned)... he also expressed overall agreement with the anti-war sentiments.. his main difference seemed to have been (if I recall) about the whether or not some folks here didn't take into account the political rock and a hard place some of the senators/representatives were in at the time of the vote. Point being his attention was more about public perception and strategy rather than pro or anti war. Or such is my recollection.

[Philostopher]

67. I've seen his posts on the 'Daily Kos' comment section.

That's the only place I've seen Carlos since he flamed out here. He was too moderate to be a conservative trying to pass -- they're usually not intelligent enough to be convincing when they do that.

[Cocoa]

14. not jiacinto

he wasn't obnoxious or whiny, he just really really believed there were WMD.

[Art_from_Ark]

29. Are we talking about the same Carlos?

Carlos certainly came across to me as "whiny", albeit not in-your-face obnoxious. But he always seemed to take a position contrary to the progressive position, including the war. He might acatually have believed there were WMDs, but I get the feeling that he would have supported the war regardless.

[salin]

43. I didn't get the impression that he supported the war, per se

I rather got the sense that from a (moderate/cautious) strategy standpoint he understood why some reps and sens voted for the IWR and would get irritated with the antiwar posters who had no give on that point, per the political context (and perceived consequences) of the vote.

[TankLV]

88. He became obnoxious. He was always whiney.

Especially all his - what - 19/20 years of living experience and expertise!

Begam his posts asking for pity because - horror - someone THOUGHT he was GAY! OMG!

Had to laugh at that one!

It was really sad.

[dsc]

16. that was a hoax

The 'Carlos' on the conservative board had a completely different style of writing and no apparent ability to spell. Carlos was on of the best spellers on DU.

[salin]

45. while I missed the episode

your account rings true from my impressions of him and his posting. Contrary to some here, yes. A tad knee jerk on a few issues (and when in that mode more apt to tag even those slightly liberal as some sort of leftwing crazies...) but sincere in his posts per supporting democrats. Can't see that he was always a mole/troll. He was too consistent over time in his persona.

[OKNancy]

52. True

and Carlos was a Dean supporter. I highly doubt that a pro-war person would support Dean.

[DrWeird]

74. Pff.

Carlos wanted Zell Miller to run for VP.

[AntiCoup2K4]

84. Since when was Carlos a Deaniac?

I seem to remember saying that Holy Joe Lieberman was the ideal "Democrat" and that the DLC was a great thing. Not exactly consistent positions with Dean supporters.

[OKNancy]

89. You guys have short memories

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=837894

I supported Dean--and still support him--because he spoke up early on. I respect that. I would also be happy with Clark and Edwards.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=837240#840181

Democratic Volunteer Opportuntiies in Florida


I just moved to Florida on Tuesday and want to volunteer for the Miami-Dade Dem Party or perhaps the Dean campaign. Where would I begin to talk to people?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=241494



http://www.2020democrats.org/view_member.php?member_id=126

[salin]

12. was that

mobuto (sp)?

[Cocoa]

15. not mobutu

[DrWeird]

76. Has mobuto ever shown up?

I asked him once if he changed his mind since supporting the war. He never replied and I haven't seen him around since.

[jpak]

26. Some now deny they were ever "for" the war

evidence to the contrary

[Piperay]

4. I was against Iraq War but can admit I was wrong

on Afghanistan, chimp fucked that one up too. :-(

[Radical Activist]

27. Yeah,

I had my doubts about Afghanistan early on but felt like a military response was justified. I should have opposed that from the beginning like I opposed Iraq all along.

[The Crazy Canadian]

5. Great question.

The line was drawn in the sand with the war in Iraq. If you crossed it and supported the invasion, then do you really have what it takes to make decisions/opinions relating to war and peace.

[Warren DeMontague]

8. No...

It Takes All My Self-Control To Not Get "I Told You So" Tattoo'd in big, block letters on my damn forehead.

[Zen]

40. LOL - same here

I was literally hollering at my family "can't you see they're lying - look at their faces!!!" They now see through the real world reality check what I meant - and call Bush the "killer chimp" that he is - but it was SOO frustrating. It still shocks me how people couldn't see through the charade from the beginning.

[Warren DeMontague]

49. Yeah, They Played Bush's "Mushroom Cloud"

Speech on Iraq, the other day... And his eyes were darting back and forth-- like was totally expecting someone to start one of those Animal House "Bullshit!" Coughs..

[GingerSnaps]

9. I've called them liars all along

I hate Bush and all of the re-thugs that brought this oil war on.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Well, The All Time World Champeens...

of never admitting they could ever, possibly, be wrong about anything, reside in the Bush administration.

I've said it before- they'll pretty much assert that, if reality doesn't jibe with some patently absurd thing Cheney has repeated over & over, then reality must be wrong.

[Solly Mack]

11. I would if I could

but I didn't support Afghanistan or Iraq. Hell, I don't support the "war on terror."

I am watching this thread though.

[JPZenger]

13. I Was Wrong to Trust the Administration

I admit I was wrong to trust the Bush Administration. Even though their public rationale for the war at the time was weak, I believed that they must have had some top secret rationale for the war - which they couldn't tell us for valid intelligence reasons. It was just beyond my imagination to think that any American President would want to start a pre-emptive war without the strongest of justifications.

"We won't get fooled again."

[JanMichael]

17. I can understand that. It did seem almost inconcievable that they'd...

...have zero backing them up.

Hell even I thought that there might be some hidden card. Amazingly though there was nothing.

[Skittles]

57. I cannot understand it

stealing the election should have been the first clue

[Droopy]

18. Good man

Now if we could just get Kerry and Edwards to say the same thing.

[emulatorloo]

20. They abused your trust . . . and that is VERY WRONG! n/t

[Solly Mack]

21. What Watergate did to some, Iraq has done to others

forever tainted how they view their government.

[Disturbed]

22. Kudos JP

When Rockerfellar was asked if he would have voted for the Iraq Resolution knowing what he does now would he have done so he replied: "No".

It's too bad the Kerry and Edwards refuse to say that.

btw I was vehemtly opposed to both illegal invasions. Going after Al Q. was my choice.

The Kerry/Edwards stand on "staying the course" is real unfortunate because Iraq will be a huge failure.

[Inland]

23. Its a sad day...when you realize the president can't be believed

I think you are like many others--you want to trust the president. You NEED to trust the president. So what happens when it becomes clear that this president isn't worth your trust, in fact, he took your worst fears and manipulated them just to get you to go along with a bad, bad idea? Since you NEED to trust the president, we have to get ourselves a president worthy of the trust.

[Art_from_Ark]

35. Trusting the president

Why anyone would have trusted the man currently occupying the White House is beyond me. He went to the Supreme Court (loaded with "judges" appointed during his father's time as VP/President) to stop the counting of votes, for crying out loud. He made several remarks about how he'd like to be a dictator. He has shown no remorse at any decision he has made regarding the taking of another life, whether it was the execution assembly line he set up at Huntsville, or ending the Federal execution moratorium, or starting two wars that have cost untold innocent lives.

[efhmc]

47. As a Texan, this man has been ruining my quality of life way too

long. The legacy he left here gets wporse each. Please end this ongoing nightmare. November can not come too soon.

[Inland]

66. trusting the president, finding out later trust is betrayed

I think I said why--hope, and lack of alternatives for an office that is held by one man. Hope was betrayed, and the office was betrayed. Now we should have a new guy, and we will hope and trust in him, with better result.

Kurt Vonnegut once wrote that the reason pirates were so successful is that they always had the advantage of surprise--nobody could believe how evil and rapacious they were until it was too late. Bush is like those pirates. People remain surprised by how low he can go.

[Skittles]

58. again, iis should have been very clear the bastards could not be trusted

WHEN THEY STOLE THE F***ING ELECTION.

[Inland]

65. Well, then again

I can understand how someone would not realize that Bush couldn't be trusted in matters of life and death, of war and peace, from the mere fact of the election shennanigans. I think its just a case of having to trust a president just because there aren't a whole lot of alternatives until the next election. The alternative, of course, is to have voted against the resolution and to vote now against more money and to try to tie his hands. I can understand how someone looking at 9/11 couldn't do that--then. And Bush understood it, too. He took the fact that America was scared and manipulated it for the dumbest and self destructive goddamn war since Vietnam, if not for the most evil act this country has committed for a few decades.

[Zhade]

78. I hate to break it to you, but the Constitution doesn't allow for trust.

That's why we have checks and balances.

And that's why the IWR was so very, very wrong. Congress does not have the right to give up its sole authority to declare war.

Had Congress listened to Robert Byrd, perhaps tens of thousands would not now be dead.

[TeacherCreature]

28. JP thank you

You help restore my faith.

[WilliamPitt]

30. Prosit

:toast:

[dsc]

19. I was somewhat ambivalent on the war

I was sure they had some WMD, but figured they didn't have anything like what Bush was saying they had. I figured a quick and clean war was a morally superior choice to the sanction regime. I was clearly wrong on both counts. I never ardently supported the war but I didn't ardently oppose it either. I figured it was a close call.

[Zomby Woof]

32. kind of like Dean's position

One Size Fits All.

(sorry Dean supporters, but considering my vehement opposition to the war from waaaay back - this one had to be said.)

[dsc]

62. I supported Dean despite his war position

not because of it. Though he was right and I was wrong. I would have gone to war if the choices were to keep the sanctions or go to war, he clearly wouldn't have. You are being profoundly dishonest when you say otherwise.

[Zomby Woof]

34. and I want to add

I figured a quick and clean war was a morally superior choice to the sanction regime

That is a morally nauseating statement. :puke:

[dsc]

61. according to every source I read

the sanctions were killing at least 10,000 Iraqis a year, and some put the figure at 50.000. Most of those people were elderly or small children. I would rather kill 10,000 solders in Saddam's army, who are not innocent than up to five times as many innocent people.

[Art_from_Ark]

68. So, you think everyone in Saddam's army wanted to be there?

Or did a lot of them not have a choice?

[dsc]

71. Some may have been inductees

but many weren't. Certainly the percentage of innocents among them is far less than that among those who were dying under sanctions. And still the numbers were less in any case.

[seabeyond]

24. i was against the war, yet powell and later bush talk

made me say out loud, gotta trust them, they must know something we dont, and if they are lieing, they will ssssooooooo be in trouble.

so i didnt buy into it, really, yet still knew they were going in and hoping we would walk in integrity get it done and get out. of course every step of the way bush did wrong. rushed into war, ignored his military and state dept, went in with too few, didnt get world support and pulled out of afghanistan before it was time, so how he did it was totally bogus

so no i never agreed with it, though i bought into it with the understanding and know that was just as likely being lied to

so what ever you want me to apologize for in this, ........k, i apologize, lol lol

why i understand kerry and edwards explanation

[Warren DeMontague]

25. I Admit That I could Have Quit My Job To Protest More

Than I did, which was as much as humanly possible... but I'm not sure it would have changed anything.

[Zhade]

82. I came within five minutes of quitting my job over Operation Occupation.

The day after they started bombing, there was a protest planned in West Los Angeles. I tried to fake an emergency to leave work, but my supervisor must have sensed something was up, because he invasively demanded to know where I was going.

Since I try never to lie, I was forced to admit there was no real emergency, as much as a desperate need by me to DO SOMETHING.

I got a (not unkind) talk from my manager, who informed me that I might not have a job if I left to protest. Since I have a son to support, I swallowed hard and stayed.

And I cried over it later. Tough times then, because I was being called all sorts of things at work for opposing the invasion from the time it started looking like a real possibility.

No one calls me names now. Wish they'd listened then.

[WilliamPitt]

31. This blows my mind

It's still right.

I have to write an essay - 'Scott Ritter was Right' or something - very soon. I still kind of can't believe I had something to do with that. (not trying to be ego-y here; it truly blows my mind I wrote that)

[Zomby Woof]

36. ego away!

If I were you, I'd be positively insufferable now. (If I am not already.) :-)

[Caution]

33. And what purpose would this serve

Seriously? Would it somehow make you feel better or more superior? Do you just feel the need to say "I told you so?"

I don't see too many apologists now so why bring this up?

(for the record I did not support the invasion then or now).

[Art_from_Ark]

37. So why bring this up now?

Perhaps it is being brought up in the hope (probably vain) that next time, people will listen to us instead of dismissing us as a "focus group"

[Caution]

41. ahh yes the ever popular

"I told you so"

that kind of thing works really well...it doesn't just serve to generate feelings of resentment or anything
</sarcasm>

[Art_from_Ark]

50. Of course, it depends on how you go about it

"Didn't I say this war would become a mess?" is a lot better than saying "You stupid idiot! You should have listened to me, numbskull!"

As for not saying anything at all, well, "grin and bear it" didn't seem to work so well.

[Skittles]

59. I DON'T GIVE A FLYING F*** WHAT THEY THINK ANYMORE

I'M THROUGH BEING COURTEOUS TO THOSE F***ING ASSHOLES.

[JanMichael]

38. What purpose? Like I said, I'm fascinated by Tony Blair.

His words and actions lately are thoroughly beyond my comprehension and since Tony isn't going to be calling me I thought that the next best thing might be gleening something from a DU'er or two.

Notice that the one who did respond in the affirmative was treated with respect.

It's called curiousity.

[Caution]

44. The question doesnt have much to do with Iraq as much

as it has to do with being willing to admit a mistake when presented with evidence to the contrary of one's position.

Asking about this as a generality might be a more productive way to satisfy that curiousity. When you ask about something as sensitive as war, something where innocent people died, the target of your curiousity would most likely have a tendency to get combative and resentful of the "I told you so" because of the implied guilt in being associated with what comes close to actual war crimes (and may very well BE war crimes).

just my $0.02

[Zomby Woof]

46. Blair

He placed all his chips on the table that he could be the next Winston Churchill.

He failed miserably.

He deserves to be scorned mercilessly for his hubris.

A true mediocrity, destined to be less than a footnote in British history.

[G_j]

53. the subject

seems to be relevant given the Democratic platform which has eliminated all language saying that the war was wrong.

I don't care if DUers come out and admit they were wrong, but it bothers me that we are being asked to support a platform that refuses to admit it.

[Spazito]

39. I supported going into Afghanistan but never supported going...

into Iraq. I don't know what I think about Afghanistan now given that it has been an absolute failure.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

48. Aren't you making the whole thing up?

It is in reality a falsehood that there were DUers who "supported Bush's war", isn't it?

[JanMichael]

51. No.

Unless one wasn't paying atention there were DU'ers who thought that Iraq had large amounts of WMD's AND the ability to use them on the US.

Those people thought that Saddam needed to go regardless of their party affiliation.

They also thought that the Dems in Congress had made a sensible decision and they trusted them as well as the mis-administration.

So yes, they "supported the war".

[Mandate My Ass]

55. Yes I remember them well

some are still here but silent on the issue of the debacle Iraq has become. One vehemently denies he quite vocally supported the invasion.

[Lerkfish]

56. In fairness to them...

Bush lied to us all. Do you blame those who initially gave him the benefit of the doubt, or the guy who lied?

Personally, I never trusted shrub, but you have to remember back when that shrub claimed the intel was absolute and ironclad. IF you believed him, you would have thought the war was justified.

so, do you make a witchhunt of the naive, like this thread is, or do you point out how to spot lies in the future? Do you alienate your friends, or help them spot a common enemy?

cohesion or division? you choose. Choose wisely.

[Cat Atomic]

77. What about... was it "windnsea"?

Wasn't windnsea aggressively moderate on the war?

Carlos was already mentioned above, I see.

[Lerkfish]

54. I wasn't here at DU, but...

UNFORTUNATELY everything I ever said about Iraq has proven true: the faulty intel, the objectives, the neocon agenda, the post-fiasco and the insurgency.

I predicted them all (actually, how hard was it to do that unless brainwashed by the repug radio waves?).

I would have RATHER been wrong, but as it turns out, I wasn't. But all along the way, the republicans I knew kept calling me insane, until each event happened as I predicted, then it was that I was still insane the events didn't REALLY happen.....

republicans are adept at self-delusion, I've found.

[OpSomBlood]

60. I was wrong about Iraq.

I took the WMD and al Qaeda claims at face value and based on that "information" I supported the war at first. But shortly thereafter I came to realize that it was all bullshit.

[JanMichael]

69. I admire anyone who can accept it was BS.

What do you think of Blair? Is he just flippin' off his rocker?

[LTR]

63. I never supported it

I knew it was going to be a major fiasco from the beginning, and that the Bush Administration was lying their asses off.

In fact, the Iraq war is one of the things that brought me to DU. I stumbled upon this place when doing a little researching.

[flobee1kenobi]

64. Although I was not a member at the time

I will admit when I was wrong. I was also caught up in the fear of an imminent attack and supported the idea of ousting Saddam. Only now do I realize that,whoever is to blame for the false information, this administration can no longer to be trusted.

[BeFree]

75. Welcome to Du, flobee, Welcome!

Some of DU gets it that some people - trusting that an American President would not lie, and lie, and continue to lie - would be deceived into beleiving his lies.

Some of us understand how folks could be swayed by the stream of conciousness of the continued falsehoods.... Hell, the same kind of stuff is what finances American TV. We've all been subjected to it for years. We understand.

Ya should have been here in those days. For every lie, you could read 10 truths on DU. We knew what was going on six-weeks before TV aired it. We were the ten-percenters who kept growing the truth and keeping it's flame alive, so that others like yourself could find it.

Welcome, to DU.

[Algomas]

70. Not me...

I smelled a rat the moment I saw the two towers fall and my intuition has so far proved correct.

[Redleg]

72. A few DUers admitted they were wrong- and then were promptly attacked

by the holier-than-thou "I told you so" squadron.

[JanMichael]

81. Interesting that it hasn't really happened in this thread.

?

[Redleg]

91. Do you deny that people were attacked, ridiculed for having the naivete

to believe Saddam had WMDs?

[DrWeird]

73. I've never heard them admit they were wrong.

I've confronted a few who supported the war and they always lie and claim they never really supported the war. Same with people who apologized for the Abu Ghraib torturers.

Fucking savages.

[FlemingsGhost]

79. Have any Democrat leaders admit having been wrong?

Last I heard it was all Bush's fault.

(on edit: no use in singling out just one individual pro-war Democrat. The entire Party dropped the ball ...)

[Walt Starr]

80. I can honestly admit I was wrong about Iraq

The intial war went far better than I thought it would and the occupation has gone far worse than I thought it would.

[TrustingDog]

83. I still think the Afghan war was wrong... who else?

Please remember that at that time the world had big sympathy for US and wouldn't dare question motives. I recall very clearly that both Bliar and Bush claimed to have irrefutable 'secret' evidence to bomb. Now that we know what cretinous filthy pigliars they are... do you still believe the Afghanistan war was the right thing to do?

[trumad]

85. I believed the President and still do!

Besides most of what he said was true including the WMD. Those artillery rounds with mustard gas was proof positive that they have WMD's... SO when are the folks here at DU who said there wern't WMD's going to apologize and when will they start supporting our country!

[eridani]

87. Yes--I do as well.

Some kind of intervention might have been justified, but it should have followed the lead of the 1000 antiTaliban leaders who met in Peshawar 10/27/2001 and condemned the bombing campaign and the support of warlords and the Northern Alliance.

[nolabels]

86. So far I have been mostly correct

The only part I missed was how much hype the war mongers were going to give it.



http://terrisfp.com/war/smartbomb2.html

On edit: A good part of knowing what was going to happen is because of reading so many posts here, to be sure, thanks DU

[LibertyorDeath]

90. Rule # 1

Rule #1 All Governments Lie

Rule #2 All Politicians are Liars

Rule #3 No matter how Cynical you are, it's NEVER enough to keep up