We will never leave Iraq. That is my belief.

[madfloridian]

This has been going on so long, all the planning for so long. Our government, both parties, know this.
I have doing some searches about the 14 or so permanent bases we are building there. I did not find that source yet, though I know we never knew about the ones in Qatar until they were there. Just not publicized. Was it 3 bases that are there, with Centcom there? Or did it move?

I did find this. It shows how obvious it is we are staying.
http://valleyadvocate.com/gbase/archives/index?searchPhrase=iraq&submit.x=20&submit.y=12
Read The Birth of the Pseudostate.


SNIP:remembered that building the other day when reading about the new U.S. Embassy in Baghdad. With a staff of more than 1,700 -- and that may be only the beginning -- it will be the largest diplomatic mission in the world. Just as our embassy will be more than an embassy, so the Iraqi state that will officially come into being in its shadow will be considerably less than a state.

With nearly 140,000 American troops on Iraq's soil, plus tens of thousands of additional foreign soldiers and civilian security guards armed with everything from submachine guns to helicopters, most military power will not be in Iraqi hands. Nor will the power of the budget, largely set and paid for in Washington.

If the new Iraq-to-be is not a state, what is it? A half century ago one could talk about colonies, protectorates, and spheres of influence, but in our supposedly post-colonial world, the vocabulary is poorer. We lack a word for a country where most real power is in the hands of someone else, whether that be shadowy local militias, other nations' armies, or both. Pseudostate, perhaps...."

Also this one from NZ about a comment on BBC by an American.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3576212&thesection=news&thesubsection=world
SNIP..."
THE HEARTLAND AMERICAN: The USA is still very much in control. 130,000-plus of our young men and women are still there. My government is building 14 permanent bases, Halliburton controls the oil. And the handover ceremony was in secret? Smacks of an ongoing occupation to me.
- Betsy Lawrence, Madison, Wisconsin, on BBC World Service Talking Point "

Plus another article from Australia.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2004/587/587p7b.htm
SNIP..."Real sovereignty for Iraq would require these troops and other foreign forces to leave. But the US is building some 14 permanent bases and plans to stay permanently.

Real sovereignty for Iraq would involve immediate democratic elections to allow Iraqis to determine their own future. But the US, aided by the UN, has blocked that option — it wants to delay elections for as long as possible.

Real sovereignty for Iraq would give the Iraqis full control over their national assets. Instead, many of these assets are being sold off to US and other Western companies."END SNIP

My friend in Belgium tells me we are building many permanent bases there. Now I want someone to convince me we are ever leaving, and why the people are not being told.

[patriotvoice]

1. That's right; we're there to stay.

Until the country goes bankrupt, then maybe even after that.

What would you expect with the largest USCIA facility in the world being in Iraq?

[taxidriver]

2. duh. have we left Germany or Japan yet? no, there are still 50,000 plus

troops roaming about in 'little america' bases just in western europe alone.

we'll be in iraq permantly, of course. it now our strategic hub in the middle east, along with riyadh.

(if you're going to build an empire, than you need to have positions all over, right? the romans did the same thing, and subsequently collapsed.)

[LittleApple81]

6. But Iraqis are not Germans nor Japanese. The situation was and

is different. Both Germany and Japan were defeated in a war that the declared on the US. The President was not Bush*. He didn't allow "contractors" to bleed America dry without accomplishing anything that impressed the Iraqis. The Marshall plan in Europe worked. Japan was stabilized.
And the Iraqis are very adept at slooooow bleeding of invaders.

[Eloriel]

3. Well, I can only surmise that you're right about never leaving

The plan, after all, called for us to topple Iraq to create a foothold in the region.

14 bases is grotesque, isn't it? Do we even have that many in Germany?

[madfloridian]

11. Is it 3 in Qatar?

And God only knows what is going on in Afghanistan. Meanwhile they want to cut social programs here. And no one believes this is going on. Not the general public anyway. They have been propagandized to death.

[Mikimouse]

4. We'll eventually leave...

and those 14 bases will belong to whichever other world power chases us out. The international community knows a rogue state when they see one.

[theivoryqueen]

5. this is going to sound really strange

(but isn't this the place for that?) I have had recurring dreams that contained the prediction of 3-5 years 'til we are out....
I do sleep with the TV on, usually news, so maybe I heard that in my sleep - maybe some skeleton crew/rotating talking head or policy commentator that only talks late at night? Has anyone else heard this?

[maggrwaggr]

7. It's one of the main reasons we invaded. Check this out:

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/13/news-cooper.php

(snip)

..........That decision was made by the time I got there. So there was no debate over WMD, the possible relations Saddam Hussein may have had with terrorist groups and so on. They spent their energy gathering pieces of information and creating a propaganda storyline, which is the same storyline we heard the president and Vice President Cheney tell the American people in the fall of 2002.

The very phrases they used are coming back to haunt them because they are blatantly false and not based on any intelligence. The OSP and the Vice President’s Office were critical in this propaganda effort — to convince Americans that there was some just requirement for pre-emptive war.


Q: What do you believe the real reasons were for the war?

The neoconservatives needed to do more than just topple Saddam Hussein. They wanted to put in a government friendly to the U.S., and they wanted permanent basing in Iraq. There are several reasons why they wanted to do that. None of those reasons, of course, were presented to the American people or to Congress.

 (snip)

[brokensymmetry]

8. Well, at least not until the oil runs out.

Then, maybe.

[madfloridian]

9. That is only a part of it.

The PNAC documents make it clear that Iraq is the "immediate justification." It is being used to set up bases to further remap the mideast.

That is not right for us to do this. It gets rationalized here at DU so much now. Some have even convinced themselves it is just fine.

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. The US could be driven out

We were driven out of Vietnam and Iran. It could happen again, particularly if we withdraw militarily due to political pressure.

There has been an enormous investment in military bases in Iraq, most of this is unknown by the general public. However, it all may be abandoned if things continue to get worse there and it becomes impossible to justify it to mom and pop back home.

[madfloridian]

17. Or when it bankrupts us.

Then we would be out, maybe. But it is such a corporately-driven thing now that it might not matter.

[JayS]

12. Having Iraq as an American "base" was a popular theory...

...even before the war. I don't think this could be a publicly stated goal of the government though. :)

[madfloridian]

13. A Mother Jones article, excellent one. On this topic.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2004/07/07_806.html

SNIP.."Post 9/11, the top strategists of this administration followed their President happily into the "war on terror," the wilder among them imagining it as World War IV, the equivalent of, if not World War II, at least the Cold War, and so engendering dreams of another half-century twilit struggle to victory. Endless years of war would release them to act exactly as they pleased.

The President (and his speechwriters), dreaming "Good War" dreams from his movie-made childhood, then elevated a pathetic "Axis of Evil" (Iran, Iraq and North Korea, none of which previously knew of their close relationship) to the role of the Axis powers (Germany, Japan, Italy) in World War II; and so, with an enemy of nation states in hand, far more worthy of a world at war than Osama bin Laden and small groups of fanatic Islamists, they announced a policy of global supremacy not over terrorists, but over all the other nations of our planet, swearing that no future bloc of powers would be allowed to interfere with our benevolent hegemony over the Earth -- and of preventive war. We would reserve the right to take out anybody we even thought might sooner or later in some way or another challenge us. A list of up to 60 states believed to "harbor" terrorists was also drawn up. This was a list for a lifetime.

And finally, declaring weapons of mass destruction evil, they made it our job to decide who exactly shouldn't have them and to bolster our own nuclear forces in order to prepare for a series of what Jonathan Schell has called anti-proliferation wars. With this trio of policies in their foreign policy quiver, they looked around for some action.

[lostnfound]

14. I think you are right. And we will find its uses, over time.

In hindsight, it will be called 'justified' by virtue of its benefits to other foreign policy initiatives.

[Capt_Nemo]

15. Yes you will. And sooner rather than later

The military resources the US needs to make PNAC successfull would
bankrupt the country. If the US wants to avoid Soviet Union's fate
it will have to give up ideas of invading Syria or Iran. But then
there will be no justification for the 14 bases, so they might as well
give up on Iraq too.

The beauty of all this is that PNAC is bringing about (and faster!)
what it tried to prevent (the demise of US military supremacy).

I say: bring it on! :evilgrin:

[Disturbed]

16. Kerry/Edwards

They have the same plan. Stay in Iraq indefinetly. This will require a draft or a whole lot of mercenaries. The Embassy, 14 bases and the Multi-Corps will stay unless the Iraqis figure out a way to force the US Occupiers out.

[Karenina]

18. Americans misunderestimate Iraqis.

Just another arrogant, conceited, myopic and BIG MISTAKE. ;-)