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mellowinman Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:33 AM
Original message
Saw F911 With my Wife
My wife is not the most political woman. She was considering voting for Bush in 2000, because she hated Tipper Gore, and Al by extension, for what they did regarding rock music.

I would describe her politics as libertarian in most areas; a bit conservative when it comes to crime and punishment, and welfare; and liberal in such areas as gay rights, and sexual issues. Very anti-abortion, but not a person who believes government meddling is the answer to anything.

I've been proud of her for opening her mind to me in the three years we've been married, and we went to see F911 today. I didn't know what effect the movie would have on her, but I had some idea.

She was pissed. Very pissed. As we walked out of the theater, she let out a torrent of creatively formed invective that would curl your hair. She wanted to know how anybody could say the movie contained lies.

"How could any of it be lies?" she asked, angrily, "everything we saw was stuff that actually happened; most of it came out of the very mouths of the people themselves."

I couldn't answer that question for her. This is a woman who once enjoyed Toby Keith singing about putting a boot up someone's ass, and now felt pain for dead Iraqis. She said if she was an Iraqi, and the American troops came into her house and tied up her college age son and put his face against the floor for nothing like they did to the women in the film, they'd have to shoot her or knock her out for what she would do. I agree that she is telling the truth on that, as a man who knows her well. She said she'd like to take the dead Iraqi baby and hold it up to Bush at a press conference and say, "you killed it. Now you eat it."

It was her opinion that only a blind fool could say the film contained lies.

"They showed Bush with his arm around Prince Bandar. They showed him holding hands with him. He called him 'Bandar Bush,'" she pointed out.

She's right. They showed numerous photos and video clips of Bush 43, and of Bush 41 in all kinds of friendly embraces and situations with various Saudis. They showed a Taliban leader that Bush had invited to America only months before 9/11. The Taliban leader endeared himself to my wife, when a woman reporter asked him a question about how the Taliban treat their women, and he said "I pity your husband. You must give him much trouble."

She didn't know Texas oilmen had invited Taliban to the US when Bush was the governor of Texas. She had no idea the type of people our president hangs around with. She didn't know Bin Laden had members of his family to his son's wedding only months before 9/11 happened, and that those same family members were business partners with both Bush 41 and 43. She certainly didn't know they could fly when no one else could, not even Ricky Martin.

There's nothing in that movie that can be disputed. People can say that Moore favors footage that gives an impression that may or may not be true, but that's as far as it goes. It does NOT favor footage that gives an actual FALSE impression. More importantly, it indicts Bush heavily in regard to lying about the reason to go to war in Iraq, and it doesn't come right out and say ONE THING that is false. It shows Bush make the connection between 911 and Iraq many times in a row. It shows how he BEAT that message into the ground during the buildup to war. What it does NOT show is how he distanced himself from that position after it was shown to be BS, and how complicit our media was in letting him off the hook for that obvious manipulation. If you think Moore manipulates his audience, he's no match for Bush, that's all I can say about that.

The Lila Lipscomb segment of the film enraged my wife. When the Right Wing woman came up to Lila and insisted she was "making it up" about her son dying in Iraq, it reminded me of the Marines on this forum attacking Maria, and saying her father never served in Vietnam. What cruel people! My wife said she would've "knocked that lady out," and I guarantee you that is true.

The scene where Moore asks Congressmen to sign their kids up to serve in Iraq was priceless. I read some of the early spin where Kennedy tried to say that scene was misleading, because he had a cousin who was going to Iraq, and Moore didn't show him talking about it. What bunk! Moore was talking about sending their OWN CHILDREN to Iraq, and he wasn't seriously trying to get them to do it; he was just making a point, WHICH HE DID.

And just how did Moore manipulate his audience in the scene with the recruiters? Was that false in any way? Of course it wasn't.

The Right can parse a sentence here, or an impression there, and say, "that's debatable," and that is IT! Fahrenheit 911 shows so many HARD FACTS one barely knows where to begin.

While I agree that some of the more brainwashed Bushies would see the film and not be swayed, I honestly believe that around 50% of the people who voted for him would change their minds about Bush if they saw this movie. I challenge every Right Wing person in America to have the guts to see this film. Even if it annoys you how Moore uses some of this footage against Bush, or how his narration echoes "liberal talking points," too much of the footage is just raw footage, and cannot be subject to manipulation. It shows what it shows, people.

No wonder so many Republicans are afraid to actually see this movie.

It proves beyond a doubt that Bush is not fit to hold office.

I can't say it converted my wife, as I may have had a hand in doing that some time ago, but I will say this.

She's not apolitical any more. She's fired up about this. Today she made me very proud. Proud to be an American, and proud to be married to a fine woman.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. See, this is why Bush is toast.
Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 12:40 AM by VolcanoJen
Americans everywhere are slowly waking up, rubbing their eyes and saying "How did we get here?"

Another DUer earlier said "They've awoken a sleeping giant." It's taken 60+ years for that phrase to mean something to the masses again.

And yes, you are married to a very thoughtful, open-minded and fine woman, mellowinman. Thank you very, very much for sharing your experience.
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mellowinman Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yeah, she puts up with me.
As they say in the old Geritol commercials, "I think I'll keep her."

It was fucking GREAT seeing her get fired up like that!

She rocks!

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SoDesuKa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Great Story
The right wingers are having a tough time convincing people who've seen F911 that it doesn't mean what it obviously means. The best they can do is discourage people from seeing it in the first place. And they're not doing a good job at that!
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mellowinman Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I'm just blown away
by the number of articles (especially Cohen's) that tried to dispute this film! It shows what it shows! Watching events unfold before your eyes CANNOT be disputed.

I know a 20 year old girl at work who carries around Hannity's book, and already used the "two Johns" catchphrase on Kerry Edwards.

(counter to that: No party should be lessening the public discourse to cheap cracks about names when their candidates are named "Dick" and "Bush.")

I'm going to challenge her to see the film, and do so in a very taunting way.

It probably won't work, but I'm going to do it anyway.

I'd really like to hear what she says about it.
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Lestatdelc Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Offer to buy her the ticket
Make it easy for her.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yowza! My husband was "one of us" already, but after seeing the
movie, he's just a tad bit noisier about it. And instead of tuning by the Pox "news" network every so often "to see what the enemy is up to," he now openly ridicules them and calls them flat-out liars. He's ordinarily a gentleman about these things. But now now.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks For Your Report, mellowinman !!!
Glad you and your wife are on our side!!!

:toast::bounce::toast:
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. Good for you!
I've been married for almost 24 years and when the movie was coming out, I asked my husband if he'd go see it with me. Adamantly, he said "NO". Not that I can ever get him to go see any movie, but he was absolutely firm on this one. I'm not sure he'd even watch it if it aired on HBO. :(

My son will be 20 in October. He's the only one that said he'd go with me. When I asked him, my sister-in-law was there and she piped up that she doesn't think he should be "exposed" to it. WTF??? I just looked at her...she knew not to say anything more. LOL

I've been on him about getting registered to vote for months...I really thought he was going to after he happened to catch me in tears the day they were lighting up Fallujah. I'm really hoping we can get to see it in the next couple of weeks. Maybe then it will be the motivation he needs to get registered to vote.
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mellowinman Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I hate to be like this...
but you should tell your sister in law to FUCK OFF. He's YOUR son, isn't he?

And no, you can't drag anyone to see it, but I'm sticking with my story that if they DO see it, they will be hard-pressed to show the same gung-ho Bush backing attitude they once did, unless they're just hardcore.

Seriously though, that sister in law needs a... (fill in whatever you like)

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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. No apologies necessary. :D
The "look" I gave her said the same without saying the words.

She really is a sweetheart to the nth degree and sometimes she doesn't choose her words accurately. She's very protective of all of us and she didn't mean it because of anything political. Both her and her husband are liberals and can't stand Bush anymore than me. But granted, my first reaction was the same as yours and I had to stand back consider what she was saying before I came to the right conclusion about it.

Now, my OTHER sister-in-law is a whole 'nother story completely. It's a good thing she wasn't around...she's a vocal right-wing radical Republican and everyone in the family can't stand to be around her.

*sigh* The joys of family.
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countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. The draft coming back if * reselected should be motivation enough.
F911 is just icing on the (yellow) cake. See it with someone you can have a discussion with afterwards. You'll want to compare notes and emotions.

MOST IMPORTANT: Get your son registered to vote. Time is running out and some jurisdictions have a deadline that is well before election-day.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. That's why I want him to see it
Knowing him, he's just going with me because he knows I want to go. He's not thinking that it's going to have an impact on him. But I know it will. He's a sensitive kid.

I want it to have an impact so he WILL get registered. This effects him more than anyone else in our family.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Just curious where you live?
I mean, what part of the country. Here in NY, most people are Dems, but you can find differences of opinion. I'm amazed that where you are someone would say a 20 year old shouldn't be "exposed" to F911. Is this the south?
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-04 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Chicago area.
While the county I live in is heavily Republican, my SIL is not. As I said in a post above, she often does not use the appropriate word...it was not because she doesn't like MM. I have no doubt that if I asked her to go with me, she would...gladly. Not because she wanted to see it, but because I asked her to. Her sole motivation would be to please me and be good company.

When she said this, I had the same reaction as others have. But, like I posted after, I'm absolutely certain that the reaction I and others had initially is not true to what her intentions were with the remark. It had no political or anti-Moore bias. She was simply saying, bluting actually, her desire to protect him from experiencing anything in his life that could bring him emotional stress. He's a very sensitive kid. If there were a draft and he didn't want to go, she'd be the first to hand him the cash with plenty of extra to get him out of the country.
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tech3149 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
13. Great story wanna add fuel to the fire?
Just advise anyone on the fence about seeing the movie that 60% of the profits go to charities chosen by Disney
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mellowinman Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Just get them there!
Let Moore do the work once they're seated!

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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. tell her to go back and take some friends
that is the way we change the coutry and get bush out. If everyone would go back with a few friends we would be in good shape.
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