when will someone finally equate "bad intelligence". . .

[stellanoir]

with shear stupidity. . .?

[merh]

1. If your mechanic tells you that your car if fine and you can drive it,

and then you drive it and it breaks down, throws a rod and ruins the engine, is that you stupidity because you listened to your mechanic and drove your car?

Maybe you heard noises and that is why you brought it to your mechanic to check and when you left the garage, you still heard the noise, but you drove it any way. How stupid!

(just an analogy)

[Solly Mack]

2. It would be stupid to not get a second opinion

if you still heard noises after your mechanic said it was ok

just a thought...

[merh]

4. I guess there is no "expert" you trust. (eom)

[Solly Mack]

7. No one is above reproach. Not even ah..."experts"

Even ..ah.."experts" make the wrong call.
Getting a 2nd opinion is a common sense thing to do.

[merh]

8. So the WH says WMDs, CIA says WMDs, Pentagon says WMDs

who else do you go to?

[Solly Mack]

9. Independent investigation into the "evidence"?

It's not factual to suggest other avenues of fact-facting aren't out there and at Congress' disposal.

I fail to see how doublechecking the facts is such an offensive idea.

[merh]

11. That maybe something that will be implemented now.

But who would have thought it was necessary then?

[Solly Mack]

13. A lot of people did

thats just a fact.

It's not knocking anyone to state that many people knew Bush was a liar.

I would think that anything Bush says or does now would be checked and doublechecked. He's proven time and time again he can't be trusted.

[hippiegranny]

12. who else do you go to?

hans blix?

[rman]

15. a matter of not blindly trusting authority

-

[Solly Mack]

3. If they are going to claim they got bad intelligence then comparing it to

sheer stupidity, for not ...how did reagan put it..oh yeah..."trust but verify", is fair


If you don't doublecheck the "facts" then it's stupid, yes

[AlCzervik]

5. When will someone finally admit

that they knew the intel was bad but used it anyway? I hope someone turns whistleblower.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. When will someone come out and say the intel was massaged

by the admin.

[Solly Mack]

10. Someone defintely needs to say that in no uncertain terms

Plainly state "The Iraqi invasion was based on lies"

[rman]

14. equate with "neocon" and "malicious intent"

CIA probe finds secret Pentagon group manipulated intelligence on Iraqi th

By Jason Leopold - Online Journal
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/072503Leopold/072503leopold.html

July 25, 2003-A half-dozen former CIA agents investigating prewar intelligence have found that a secret Pentagon committee, set up by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in October 2001, manipulated reams of intelligence information prepared by the spy agency on the so-called Iraqi threat and then delivered it to top White House officials who used it to win support for a war in Iraq.

The former CIA agents were asked to examine prewar intelligence last year by Rumsfeld and CIA Director George Tenet. The former agents will present a final report on their findings to the Pentagon, the CIA and possibly Congress later this year. More than a dozen calls to the White House, the CIA, the National Security Council and the Pentagon for comment were not returned.

The ad hoc committee, called the Office of Special Plans, headed by Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith and other Pentagon hawks, described the worst-case scenarios in terms of Iraq's alleged stockpile of chemical and biological weapons and claimed the country was close to acquiring nuclear weapons, according to four of the CIA agents, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the information is still classified, who conducted a preliminary review of the intelligence. ---

More than a dozen CIA agents responsible for writing intelligence reports for the agency told the former CIA agents investigating the accuracy of the intelligence reports they were pressured by the Pentagon and the Office of Special Plans to hype and exaggerate intelligence to show Iraq as being an imminent threat to the security of the U.S. ---

========

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/1629064.php

Vincent Cannistrano, who worked for the CIA for 27 years, told the National Journal last month that the OSP "incorporated a lot of debatable intelligence, and it was not coordinated with the intelligence community."

========

Sources in both the British and US intelligence community are now equating the JIC with the Office of Special Plans (OSP) in the US Pentagon. The OSP was set up by Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to gather intelligence which would prove the case for war. In a staggering attack on the OSP, former CIA officer Larry Johnson told the Sunday Herald the OSP was 'dangerous for US national security and a threat to world peace', adding that it 'lied and manipulated intelligence to further its agenda of removing Saddam'.
He added: 'It's a group of ideologues with pre-determined notions of truth and reality. They take bits of intelligence to support their agenda and ignore anything contrary. They should be eliminated.'
http://www.sundayherald.com/print34491

========

OSP became operational 10-11

========

[IkeWarnedUs]

16. I know when chimpsrsmarter, GreenPartyVoter and Solly Mack

When the Senate Intelligence Committee releases the second part of their report. The second part deals with how the faulty intelligence was used by the people in power.

The Republicans in the Senate Intelligence Committee voted to hold off on finishing the second half until after the election.

It is already 80% done and can easily be finished and released soon.

We have to demand it.

Call Congress toll free - 800-839-5276

Link to my thread with transcript of Friday press conferences:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1970315

[Solly Mack]

17. Will do! and Thank you!

[riverwalker]

18. "bad intel" does not fly

We all knew buchco wanted to invade Iraq, he made no bones about it even way before 911. In light of that fact, no one is the least bit suspicious of the intelligence he used to go to war? C'mon. Sure, CIA, Pentagon and the WH all said WMD's. These sources were not even a little suspect in anyones eyes? This is the information age remember? The Internet, books, magazines, all had countless credible sources of weapons inspectors, military and intelligence personnel who said they were WRONG. Many people didn't just believe they were wrong, they KNEW they were wrong. The information was there. Anyone who went along with the war abdicated their responsibility as citizens, not to mention as human beings. People died because of apathy, silence, fear of speaking out, pure ignorance and intellectual laziness.

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. I'm waiting for CIA agents

to come out and talk about Cheney being the ONLY VP in history to plant his ass in an office at the CIA and spend months looking through evidence that he could twist/manipulate/use to fit his WMD LIE. WHY isn't anyone screaming about that?! WHY? WHY? WHY?

[stellanoir]

20. we've had plenty of whistleblowers. . .

Rowley. . .then they took other means of silencing O'Neil Clarke, Edmonds, Kwiatkowski, and Wilson.

i wish all of those folks would get together and share notes.

What they did to Edmonds last week was totally reprehensible.

Secrets of State my butt. . .oh that's right. . .I forgot we can only trust Chalabi and some "straight shooter" named "Curveball".

Not Americans with a few centuries of collective public service and integrity behind them.

Nevermind.