help me out re: the "middle", the "base" etc.

[G_j]

because I'm confused about terms. Where do people fall who

1)Think the war was wrong and a mistake,

2) Want the troops home

3) Want the PATRIOT act repealed.

most "Democrats" I know want these things.

so are we all "fringe"

How many people do you know who are FOR the PATRIOT act?
Yet Kerry and Edwards seem to be for it with some minor changes.
Are they trying to appeal to any segment of Democrats at all, or are they trying to convert Republicans? I'm confused. :shrug:

[Kanary]

1. Yup, by George, I think you've got it........

Enough fringe for a very large tablecloth.

You're not confused at all.

Kanary

[Blue Wally]

2. Lets parse your points

1)Think the war was wrong and a mistake,

or think that the ostensible motives for the war was correct, but think that the way the war was handled was a mistake and that the goals may not be obtainable given the resources we can commit.


2) Want the troops home

rather universal point, everyone would like a world in which the US does not have troops overseas. Hasn't been the case since 1940.

3) Want the PATRIOT act repealed.

or rather modified, since we did have to tighten domestic security and intelligence after 9-11 (the very name Department of Homeland Security gives me the creeps or just the word "homeland" maybe "domestic" would have been better).

[porphyrian]

3. I don't think your parsing represents the positions of most Democrats.

Your additions represent this centrist/right-leaning stance the original poster was, I think, addressing.

[G_j]

7. I'll try to address that

*keep in mind I live in a community that is more "progressive" than some. Part of my question is what are the people who feel this way, the base, the far left? The larger community of Dems here where I live seem to for the most part agree on these points, and this group feels fairly mainstream to me.

to address your points,
-"or think that the ostensible motives for the war was correct"

nope, the people I'm talking about (the majority of Dems I know)
do not think the ostensible motives for the war were correct.

-"everyone would like a world in which the US does not have troops overseas."

I'm speaking of Iraq, MOST Dems I talk to want the troops home pronto.

-"or rather modified, since we did have to tighten domestic security and intelligence after 9-11"

no again, at least those I speak to almost to a person do not want it modified, they want it repealed.

[Kanary]

11. "think that the ostensible motives for the war was correct"

The people who think that in NOvember will still either vote for *, or not vote at all.

Pandering to that group just loses votes for the Dems.

Kanary

[cally]

4. Those of us who will vote for Kerry/Edwards

no matter how pissed off we are at some of their policies are the base. I suspect it will only get worse as Kerry/Edwards try to get some of that middle vote. I wish they would go after the singles vote instead of trying to appeal to the white male independents. I think it would be more effective.

[Kanary]

5. Independents are looking for an end to the war

When they don't hear that from the Dem candidates (and worse, hear the opposite), they figure, what they heck...... why bother to vote at all......... it's indistinguishable.

That's what ABB has reaped.

Kanary

[cally]

6. Do you have evidence of that

I've seen nothing that indicates that independents will not vote because Dem candidates are not strongly anti-war.

[Kanary]

9. First of all, the evidence is LOGIC: WAR IS THE ISSUE

SEcond, there was a huge front page article in the Sunday Denver Post a few weeks ago, about indepenent voters, and most of 'em said exactly that.

Shouldn't be a surprise to you.......... many of us said this during the primaries, but were soundly dismissed.

So, you can look down on independents who decide not to vote, but if you want to change the process of "getting out the vote", it would be of benefit to actually LISTEN to what people are saying, rather than to decide they're just all "ignorant".

THe majority in this country DO NOT WANT THIS WAR, and they want a candidate who will speak to that.

Kanary

[cally]

12. Who is calling someone ignorant?

It's not me. I'm against the war and always have been. I'm just tired of folks implying that the Kerry campaign is going badly and is wrong. He's doing OK. He's not perfect. I don't agree with him often but I can't think of one politician that I agree with most of the time.

[G_j]

8. I don't know about Independants

but even the corporate media polls are showing a huge segment of the population who think the war was a mistake and want out.

[Kanary]

10. Exactly. So, what is offered?

More of the same.

Then we wonder why so many people don't vote.

:shrug:

Kanary