*Alert: Remember TIPS? It has been activated in Florida !

[G_j]

(sorry its FOX but this is worth attention)


Florida Citizens to Help Catch Terrorists
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,125598,00.html


Thursday, July 15, 2004

MIAMI — Law enforcement officials in central Florida are planning to train cable repairmen, exterminators and apartment managers to report signs of terrorism inside their clients’ homes.

Supporters of the program say making private citizens the eyes and ears of the police will save lives.

But opponents, like the ACLU (search), call the plan “un-American” and say it’s a violation of privacy.

Operation TIPS (search), a similar program proposed by President Bush, was withdrawn in 2002 after critics said it would lead to racial profiling.

So far, 5,000 brochures detailing the Florida plan have been printed, and volunteers will be trained what to look for.

..more..

[Literate Tar Heel]

1. "volunteers will be trained what to look for"

= anyone with dark skin headed toward a polling site on November 2

[lovedems]

3. anyone with an anti-Bush or pro-Kerry t-shirt?

We know they are fond of arresting those types!

[Snoggera]

6. It's a method for extending fear. Period.

Don't like the brown guy living in apartment 5A? Turn him in. Surely, when they bust down his door they will find something.

Don't care for having black people living in your apartment complex?
Turn'em in. You just know they must be doing drugs or something. When they bust the doors down one night, by god, they'll find something.

Are you a right wing nutcase cable installer? You have now found a reason to stay in your chosen profession. Left wingers will now be at your mercy. Hey, maybe you can even make a little money on the side doing blackmail.

From the other side of the fence:

Are you a black, brown, or just left winged individual and/or family? Better be careful. Better be worried. Better not slip up in any way, or they're gonna getcha.

Why does this tactic also not surprise me?
How can anyone stand to live in Florida?
I know. It's just a test case, but will be coming to a neighborhood near you and me if November 2nd doesn't see a change coming.

[tom_paine]

2. Oh, it will be activated everywhere else, too.

Imperial Tyrants NEVER take "no" for an answer.

Tip of the iceberg.

As unsurprising as the KGB acting the same as the old NKVD.

[madfloridian]

4. Mailmen, too, I think.

Ours mentioned something about it. He was very upset about it.

[Cerridwen]

5. Soviet Russia

what has happened to my country?

[Cronus Protagonist]

7. A picture is worth a thousand words... spread the word

http://bushspeaks.com/home.asp?did=92

[Heddi]

8. So they're encouraging these people

not just to spy, but to snoop.

Firstly, it pisses me off that they mention apartment managers----99.99999% of leases out there for apartments FORBADE management from entering the apartment w/o sufficient notice, and it must be for a reason---repair, to show the apartment, etc.

My apartment manager has only seen the inside of my apartment two times---three by the time I move out

1) the day I saw the apartment
2) THe day I mvoed in
3) The day I move out.

He has NO REASON to be inside my apartment. If he does have reason to be there, he has no reason to 'snoop'

And that goes for cable repairmen, exterminators, etc.

I guess it's one thing if the cable guy comes in and I've got 20 lbs of TNT sitting on the living room table. Yeah, I guess that would raise suspicions.

However, most people (Terrorists as well as normal folks) don't leave things lying around the house when repairmen and cable-installers come a'knocking. So that means that these in-home servicers are most likely being 'persuaded" or at least quitely encouraged to snoop. Peek in the medicine cabinet. have a look under the mattress. Take a good survey of the books on the shelf and the food in the fridge.

This just sickens me.

And what if, let's say, the repairman comes in my house. Sees alot of Anti-Bush material lying around. He's a repub. Sees that I've got the Communist Manifesto on my shelf, along with many books on socialism, etc?

So then what---he calls the police, right? To report "suspicious activity" or whatever.

What can the police do? Isn't there some standards on when they can and can't search a house? If they come knocking on my door based on the baseless fear of a repairman, do I have to let them in? Do they have to have a search warrant? Isn't that kind of unconstitituional if they don't have a search warrant? Or if they don't have a reason to come to my house anyways? Unreasonable Search & Seizure?

this is disturbing.

[bloom]

16. By the constitution...

they would need a search warrent.

Of course, if they have a snoop, they might be able to then say they have "probably cause". But I think the Patriot Act might let them go in and search your computer, etc. and not ever say a word.

Which would make the Patriot Act unconstitutional.....

[arcane1]

28. the 4th ammendment was nullified

by the "Patriot Act". My guess is, since this would be "terrorism-related", no warrants would be needed, the police would just come to your home while you aren't there, for a sneak-&-peek, or just arrest you outright

I mourn for what used to be a free country

:grr:

[G_j]

9. so why is this happening now?

(NYT reported election problems expected again in FLA.)

Whats the deal Jeb?

[Beearewhyain]

10. A couple more news links...

Orlando Sentinel Requires registration

NPR

[G_j]

13. thanks n/t

[Speck Tater]

11. So just turn in every right-winger you know.

And every fundamentalist preacher. Collect license numbers from the visitors of your right-wing acquaintances and turn them in too. In fact, open up the phone book, start with the A's and turn in everybody!

[scarletlib]

12. I think its been happening all along

My husband sells real estate here in Palm Beach County and works with a lot of people in the Asian Indian community. A few weeks ago he touched bases with a client he had not seen in a while. She told him her ex-husband had gone into a store here in the county to pay a bill. The clerk thought he looked 'suspicious' so he called the FBI. The FBI shows up at the guys apartment in the middle of the night and arrests him. He was held at the Gun Club Jail for a while then sent to Krome detention center in Miami for illegal immigrants and then back to Gun Club. This happened in 2/03 and he wasn't finally released until 10/03. She had spent several thousand dollars hiring lawyers to help get him released. Finally the Canadian embassy was contacted as he is a Canadian citizen and was here in US legally. Amazingly he was then let go--no charges of any type were filed against him and he did nothing wrong. He was just a dark skinned Canadian-Indian, a snow-bird. He is back in Canada now. The ex-wife says it is not over yet. I think they may be planning some type of legal action against the county/store.

[G_j]

14. that is a horror story!

people wake up! we are in deep trouble

[scarletlib]

17. it is a true story

my husband told me about this last week and I wanted to post with the peoples names but he said not to use the names. I may be a little off on one or two details but the story is true and very scary.

[G_j]

26. that is really sad

And I've heard a number of similar stories.

It is so outrageous. I truly hope they can successfully take legal action.

[Snoggera]

15. The clerk needs to experience what his ignorance caused

8 months in jails, but not in American jails. Send him to an Indian jail. Fucker won't screw up an innocent person's life again, I would guess.

[Deja Q]

18. All Americans should know what to look for... this is ridiculous.

Why train certain people to violate the privacy of others?

If I'm at a friend's house, I want to know if he's a closet terrorist so I can report him.

Besides, once they implant microchips in us to track us, it won't matter.

[atreides1]

19. Could Be Dangerous

Just think the cable guy sees something funny, reports it, the house is raided, but instead of being terrorists it's a drug dealer.

Can you say Columbian neck tie?

I hope these rats will be getting danger pay, so that their families
have something when they turn up in the Everglades.

[Q3JR4]

20. An American SS.

Apathetic voters, unthinking populace, I point the finger of blame in your face. YOU were the ones who brought this down upon us!

At least, you know, in Florida. Next year (if * steals another election), in the rest of the country.

[Fleshdancer]

21. I think all DUers should try to enroll in TIPS....

There's what, 30-40,000 registered DUers? We can just all enroll in TIPS and turn in everyone in our local White Pages as potential terrorists...or we could just constantly turn in the same people over and over like Trent Lott, Tom Delay, etc.

It wouldn't be too long before the govt. realized that a national tattle tail program is more trouble than it's worth.

[scarletlib]

22. we can be like East Germany

where everybody spied on everybody.

[Jose Diablo]

23. East German Stasi

Any comments now about Hitler?

"Oh, it makes us look bad to refer to Bu$h as Hitler". Yeah, right.

Edit: But there will not be ovens. Because thats ineffficient. We now have Thermal Depolymerzation Process plants that can make oil out of any biomass. Thus it will be possible to make 100 pounds of light oil from a 150 pound human carcass. Watch for them to be set-up at the FEMA relocation compounds.

[progressivebydesign]

24. What has our society become?

Every day, I read here on DU that we are editing what we say at work, editing what we say in our personal lives, and in public... all because we have been intimidated into believing only pro-Bush, pro-war people are allowed to express an opinion; If we express our opinions, we risk losing jobs, friends, and even find ourselves handcuffed and led away.

Today, I had a repairman in the house. I was actually afraid to be on DU in the nearby room, because I worried that he could be a rightwing nut, and read something into what he may see on the computer screen. I have no doubt repair people have seen my Bush misspeaks calendar in the kitchen... It makes me ILL to think that people coming into my home will be spying on me. Seriously. The fucking Bush administration's intelligence is SO poor that they have to resort to neighbors turning in neighbors? Would that REALLY make a difference? Do you think ANYONE plotting a terrorist attack is having their washer repaired while their covert materials are sitting on the nearby kitchen table? What the fuck is this? Romania??? :grr:

[kayell]

25. The next step is training the children to inform on their parents

[Jose Diablo]

27. In grade school

Tell us Billy, what do your parents do for a living? You bet it will happen.

[Heddi]

29. They already do that with the DARE program

or I should say they did when I was in school, and even a bit after I was out of school as told to me by a good friend (elementary school aged) of the family.

See, they 'encourage' kids to talk to the DARE people after class. Let them know if anyone THEY know might be doing drugs, because you know how harmful drugs are don't you?? And you don't want your mom, or your dad, or brother or anyone OD'ing on the marijuana cigarettes, do you?

Could you imagine what would happen if your mom or dad went to jail? So it's okay if you talk to us. We'll keep it between you and me. We'll talk to your mom or dad or whoever it is that is doing drugs and we'll let them know that you care about them, and want the best for you, them, and the whole family.

:eyes:

The good-friend-of-the-family kid I knew was about 11 or so when DARE came to his classroom. His mom & her boyfriend were occasional smokers of the reefer. The DARE people had a spray or something that smelled like the rancid smoke that the devil weed produces (so that kids would know what it smelled like) and they had a little board with REAL HONEST TO GOODNESS drugs on it, so that the kiddies would know what drugs looked like.

So this DARE person starts on their spheil about the evils of drugs and how kids had the right...no, OBLIGATION to inform the authorities about anything their friends or loved ones may be doing. The DARE people assured the class (as they assured my classes some years before) that NO ONE would get in trouble. NO ONE would be arrested.

So this friend-of-the family, feeling that the DARE people really were his friends, opens his big fat yap about how his mom & her boyfriend are always smoking pot (not really true), and how their friends come over and smoke pot (really true).

So whaddya know. LITERALLY within an hour or so of this meeting at school, the cops come to his house, search warrant in hand, to look for illegal drugs, paraphanelia, etc.

LUCKILY, the mom & boyfriend had moved their stash a few days before to the boyfriend's house b/c their house had been vandalized by some local youths and they didn't want the kids running off with a 1/2oz of fine ditch-weed.

So the cops found nothing. Harassed the shit out of mom & boyfriend to "go ahead and show us where it is.." for about 3 or so hours. Finally the cops got tired of being told WE HAVE NOTHING IN THE HOUSE and they left. No charges were pressed, nothing was done, although they feel that they were DEFINITELY under surveillance for many weeks/months afterwards.

Of course, when little friend-of-the-family son comes home that day, he has a mouthful to tell mom about his wonderful friends at the DARE program and how they're wanting to help mom * boyfriend out with their smoking problem---he was very proud and felt he did the right thing. Mom didn't kill him (as I'm sure many parents would have been tempted to do), and just politely suggested that he not go telling strangers about things that go on in the house.

DARE is completely evil and totally encourages kids to spy on parents, grandparents, bros, sis, friends......

I remember them suggesting to us (when they were in my classes) that we occasionally ask our parents about any Rx meds they were taking and gauge their responses. "If they're hesitant to tell you what they're taking and why, it usually means that they're hiding something, and you should call us so that we can talk to your parents about their medications..." ???? :wtf:

[Hubert Flottz]

30. It has in West Virginia too!

Because the Terra-ists might try and disrupt the selection!

[G_j]

34. do you have any further info?

or know what it is called? (in FLA it is the "Citizen Awareness Program")

[shance]

31. Good time to build Community/Civil Liberty Neighborhood Action groups

In reading about the continuous and increasing Civil Liberties violations happening around the country, watching Farenheit 9/11, and talking to others about their own experiences, it seems like instead of bringing communities together and/or building neighborhood support, the TIPS program is more of an invitation for some potentially serious scapegoating and witch hunting.

I dont think I need to say most of us are very concerned as citizens and activists that our rights could be and/or are actively being violated primarily due to the Patriot Act, and now with the TIPS program, which would promote more division and distrust between neighbors and communities. Its not a politically specific issue either in terms of parties. Like West Virginia, its probably already being tested* in other areas as well.

After watching Farenheit and the scenes with the *cookie eating Peace group* and the elderly man who were being followed and under surveillance, (and actually questioned by the Secret Service), I concluded that if simple things like promoting peace (and eating cookies*), and making some comment at the gym would actually constitute surveillance, then what/who else is being monitored and to what extent?

It made sense to me to consider this monitoring of citizens is probably more wide spread and low key than we are aware of. Another key question is how does one know?

Some things to consider are: if the elusive *they* can tap a phone, monitor emails, enter someones house without a warrant, follow someones daily activities, how does one prove it and also, protect themselves, their rights and privacy as a citizen?

AND another question how does one communicate with others about these somewhat *woo-woo* situations?

The reality is there is an increasingly fear based, vengeful tone which is attempting to further suppress healthy Democratic debate and open communication, and it is trying to be hushed by some who are indimidating and threatening those of us who are simply speaking our minds as American citizens.

These potential violations taking place have largely remained undiscussed and are not being addressed to the extent that they need to be. In part because how does one address what one cannot fully prove? However it is possible if neighbors and communities openly confront the issue and seek the necessary information and answers.

Now more than ever, I believe we need to be communicating about specific ocurrences and issues involving our Civil Liberties and privacy rights with our families and friends because if this is the case, which all signs point to yes, then our civil liberties are being violated as Americans. And frankly, who knows to what extent and how often?

Its not a particularly fun or easy issue to discuss. It feels weird to say we think we are being followed, and/or situations keep ocurring that we cant really put our finger on, but the facts are, weird things are indeed happening.

Its important to talk about *weird* experiences because that is how we can better understand and differentiate what is the truth and what is not. Its also important to write down license numbers and/or take pictures of anything that seems funny or different. You may take a good amount of pointless notes, but its important to keep record of things ocurring. The important thing is to OPEN A DIALOG with other activists and promote discussions around solutions as to what to do if we think it is happening to us.

No communication equals mistrust, division, isolation and fear.

On the other hand, open communication equals building relationships, better understanding ourselves and the situations surrounding us, and feeling more empowered.

There will be times when instincts are off and we are wrong. Who cares? Its better to be wrong and know we are wrong than live in isolation and ambivalence.

Its important to tell neighbors and friends, and those who we feel comfortable with, that we are active in various causes, Democratic/Libertarian politics(Repbublicans too - this issue affects every American)and/or civil groups and feel there is a chance we could be being monitored, why? simply because we are speaking out against the policies of this Administration. Of course its helpful to post here at DU.

At the same time, a *sky is falling* mentality isnt helpful, it will only exacerbate problems, and at times that will probably occur as well. But like Democracy in progress, its imperfect. However, talking about civil liberties and our experiences reasonably can only create good, positive outcomes if the goal is finding solutions to the issues.

There may be situations ocurring in your life that you *cant exactly* put a finger on. Not to promote paranoia, but consider this, if an individual is involved, as these people were in the movie, if an individual feels they are being followed, monitored, and/or if they have noticed interesting people hanging around in cars and/or making a point to be noticed, well, that individual could be being followed, and needs to take that into consideration and follow their instincts. and if one is simply exercising their rights (and responsibility*) as a citizen, then as far as I can conclude, civil liberties are being violated.

As far as open discussion is concerned here at DU and even at the kitchen table*, there of course be the trolls, family members and various others who are uncomfortable with the reality and will try to shut down discussion about it. Disregard them, because the last thing that needs to be done is abandoning open dialog and conversation.


I dont know if there are Civil Liberties neighborhood watch groups actively ocurring now, but that could be a great vehicle to get to know neighbors, connect with others and feel more confident in what you are doing as an activist and an American citizen. Bottom line, if individuals want to stop us from speaking out, thats wrong and thats illegal as far as our Constitution is concerned.

It is NOT a comfortable feeling to think you are being followed or tracked and people need to be talking about it.

Ive been active in various causes, including anti-war activism and pro-choice issues and for a while now I have observed numerous *coincidences* which have ocurred in my life. I have mentioned it to others and that has been helpful. I have also found that I am not alone.

Its an important issue that bears much more attention than it is receiving, probably due to individuals not wanting to look foolish. If ones life and/or livlihood is being threatened, isnt it worth looking a little foolish?

Now is a good time to consider starting Civil Liberties action groups, and or *talk* or support groups, anything to get people communicating. Lets not allow communities to be places of division, fear and civil unrest. Communities are created to promote belonging and provide support for each other.

Its time to build on positive action instead of negative***

[G_j]

32. excellent post

:thumbsup:

[goforit]

33. Jeb has been busy throughout this quiet period.

[shance]

35. Kick*