Hypothetical: Should I Go To Jail? Should My Friend?

[GiovanniC]

Strictly hypothetical.

I am friends with this guy. I know him very well; I know he is not a criminal and would never knowingly break the law.

He is an assistant manager of a small restaurant. One day, he finishes out his shift, makes his bank deposit, and goes home. The next day, one of the waitresses calls him at home and says, "The bank says you never made the deposit last night. The manager says that you stole $4500 and the police are on their way to arrest you right now."

Now, he's afraid. He knows he's innocent, but isn't sure that will help him. To add to the problem, he had recently written an anonymous story into a local mystery magazine that featured the main character stealing thousands of dollars by making off with a weekend's worth of bank deposits from a store he managed. He figured someone would find out that he wrote that, tie that in with the missing money and he'd be doing some hard time.

So he came to my house and wanted to hide out for a little while. He intended to turn himself in eventually, but he wanted to talk to me and he wanted to make a series of phone calls before he was arrested. While he was there, in my basement, the police come and ask if he's there or if I've seen him. I say no, they go on their way.

He eventually turns himself in. They ask him a series of questions. One question is, did he steal the money. He says he didn't. Another of the questions is whether he wrote the story in the mystery magazine that featured the guy stealing bank deposits. They suspect he did, but cannot prove it. Fearing that would incriminate him if he admits to writing it, he says he didn't.

A trial gets underway, and everyone in town figures the guy is guilty. He is skewered in the newspapers, gossip on the street says he stole the money. But the money has never been found. Most figure he stashed it and will retrieve it when he gets out of jail.

Two days into the trial, the bank is performing maintenance on their deposit mechanism and finds the missing deposit. My friend was telling the truth -- he was innocent.

Here's my question for you:

- Should I be arrested and found guilty of aiding and abetting (or some such crime) because I harbored him while the police were looking for him? Should I be charged and found guilty of obstuction of justice for lying when they asked if I had seen him?

AND

- Should my friend be charged and found guilty of lying to investigators and/or obstruction of justice for lying about having written that story?

[trumad]

1. I think you should be fucking water-boarded!

;-)

[sangh0]

2. Yes and yes

If everyone has the authority to decide these issues, there is no law. The bottom line is your actions have consequences. While it may be right and moral to break the law in some situations, there are consequences to it. MLK Jr believed that going to jail was an integral part of non-violent resistance, and that the resistance should welcome their incarceration as a demonstration of the unjust nature of the laws that were used to imprison them. You can't change unjust laws by avoiding them. They must be confronted.

[donhakman]

8. Not hypothetical

The Supreme Court ruled that during a routine traffic stop, if a policeman finds an illegal substance anywhere in or on the vehicle -
EVERYONE IN THE CAR will be charged with possesion.

It is up to the defendants to prove their innocence.

[Literate Tar Heel]

3. I'm not a lawyer

but I've seen Court TV and a couple episodes of Law and Order so I'm an expert

I suppose you could be charged with obstruction of justice and/or harboring a fugitive or something like that

I guess he could be charged with obstruction of justice also for lying about writing the story, but under the circumstances, I can't imagine any prosecutor in his right mind would pursue it

I would think you would actually be more likely to be charged, but I'm sure there are people here who actually deal with the law as a profession and will know better

[Lefta Dissenter]

6. I'm not a lawyer

but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :)

How is this any different from the Martha Stewart case? She was convicted for lying about a crime for which she was not charged.

[GiovanniC]

13. You Have Discovered My Allegory

and laid it bare for all to see.

[eyesroll]

4. Are we assuming that the bank had no video surveillance?

You've lied to the police -- whether your friend did the crime or not, you lied to the police. Had they just been looking for your friend to tell him they found his car that he reported stolen, you'd still be guilty of lying to the police. So you probably should be charged with that.

HOWEVER -- How in the heck would they know he was actually there? Unless he said, "I was hiding at Giovanni's house," the cops wouldn't know. So you probably wouldn't get arrested or charged with anything.

As for your friend -- he is technically guilty of lying to investigators. He probably should have declined to answer the question about his mystery story.

Of course, this is all moot, because the bank would have inspected the depository immediately upon suspicion, and found the money. If they didn't, the cops surely would have required the search.

[GiovanniC]

12. Actually, This Is Based *Loosely* On Real Events

The story about the guy who made the deposit that the bank never received is true. I didn't know the guy, but it happened here in my hometown. He finished his shift as a manager of Wendy's at night and went to the bank to put the deposits in the night depository. The bank claimed they never received them. The bank claimed they searched the night depository but the deposit was not there. The manager was arrested for stealing the money.

The town split into two camps almost immediately. The largest camp was ready to crucify the manager and he was tried and found guilty before he even entered the courtroom.

The other, smaller camp, thought he was innocent. Many of them were people who knew the guy. Others were just casual observers who figured if a guy was going to steal a bank deposit, he'd have waited for a really high-volume night (this night was only about medium sales-wise) and he'd have gotten the hell out of town (this guy didn't).

He kept telling the bank to recheck the depository, INSISTING that he had made the deposit. The bank said they'd already checked and it wasn't there. He told them to take the wall apart if they had to, the deposit was there. They called him a liar.

I am not entirely sure why there was no bank surveillance video available. There certainly should have been, but there apparently wasn't. Either the camera wasn't working, or the bank screwed it up somehow.

The guy was tried and CONVICTED and charged with several years (I want to say seven, but it was a while ago that this happened).

About a year or so later, Comerica Bank needed maintenance done on their night depository and when the company came in to take apart the depository, they found the missing deposit. Every penny of it.

The guy was released, obviously, and I think he sued the pants off SOMEBODY -- probably the bank, maybe others also. I know his name got dragged through the mud BIG TIME around here, and he was innocent all along.

So although I'm sure it's not something that just happens every day, it DID really happen.

[toddzilla]

5. no and no

no harm, no foul. Just like it isn't illegal to escape imprisonment if you are found innocent later on.

[rock]

7. From what I gather

all of the information you acted on was hear say. In a phrase, nothing that you could testify to in court as a fact. What crime are you (supposedly) guilty of? Especially considering that you believed him.

[Heyo]

9. There's shouldn't be so much abiguity....

Either he made the deposit or didn't, and that is easily determined... just watch the video.....

Heyo

[Ready4Change]

10. I think (according to my extensive experience watching crime TV!)

That your actions would only be considered a crime if they were aiding the commission of a crime. Since your friend prove innocent, you didn't aid in the commission of any crime.

Had your actions come to light before your friend proved innocent you could have been brought up on charges.

Now, I wonder what would have happened had you been brought up on charges, found guilty and jailed, and THEN your friend was found innocent?

[Jim__]

11. I'm not a lawyer either, but my opinion is No and No

The man lied to the police and obstructed justice - BUT the police were coming to arrest him - to me that constitutes an unjust act by the police - they need to do a little more investigation before they come to arrest him. That, to me is a mitigating circumstance - he lies because he fears he is going to be unjustly imprisoned. BTW, in real life, if your friend was actually arrested, I would expect him to be convicted. I think the best advice to him is - don't say anything until you talk to your lawyer - until recently, we had that right.

You're a more complicated case - but again, I'd call it mitigating circumstances - you know your friend well enough to believe he didn't do it - you too were acting to prevent an injustice.

I don't object to your being charged - but I would definitely object to jail time. If I were on the jury, I'd vote to acquit.

[GiovanniC]

14. Real Events, Sort Of

The guy was found guilty, and later proven innocent. Not a friend of mine, but someone who lives in my town.

[dr.strangelove]

15. I am a lawyer and my opinion is No and No

Its more of a real world answer then a legal theory.
I was with a DA's ofice for a short period. When the DA charges someone with a crime that is later shown to have been an error, they would never follow up their mistake by charging someone for obstructing their investigation.

Breaking laws doesn't mean you get charged for them. I have probably violated vehicular speeding laws thousands of times, but I don't have thousands of tickets. You have to be charged for the crime. I don't think that is likely. I would advise you to stop talking about it though. Admission on DU are certainly not protected and even if you change a fact or two, you have admited to a crime.

Call a defense lawyer adn talk to him on the phone for 5 minutes. Most defense lawyers will give a few minutes of free consultation.

[GiovanniC]

16. No, None of It Is True -- Except as Noted Above

It really was a hypothetical scenario.

[sendero]

17. I've long since...

... lost all respect for our laws and for our 'justice' system. The number of people who are wrongly convicted due to overzealous prosecutions and general stupidity is appalling.

So, although my opinion on the matter is worthless, I don't think "you" or he did anything wrong, in comparison to the bald-faced lies police and prosecutors have been shown to be willing to tell over and over and over.

Tulia Texas anyone, Dallas gypsum cocaine anyone? I just try to be a good boy and never get caught in the legal or medical machinery in this country because once you do you are on a crazy train to who knows where.