Question about statutory rape:

[Worst Username Ever]

This is an off-shoot of the "14yr old having sex with 23 year old teacher" thread, but I am putting it on it's own thread.

Two questions, actually:

1) If two 14 year olds have sex, are they raping each other? (I ask because I am hearing that a 14 year old cannot give consent, no matter what)

2) If a 14 year old FORCIBLY has sex with a 23 year old, who is raping who?
(I ask because I heard someone say that no matter what the situation, a 23 year old having sex with a 14 year old is always rape)

I am just posting this because some people seem to have some very strict definitions of what they consider to be rape and what they do not consider to be rape.

Just soliciting opinions, not taking a side, but flame away if you want.

[shoelace414]

1. well

1) If two 14 year olds have sex, are they raping each other? (I ask because I am hearing that a 14 year old cannot give consent, no matter what

depends on the state. I believe in Wisconsin both were tried for deliquency or something

[truthspeaker]

2. I'll give it a shot, but it's tricky

The ages chosen are arbitrary, but we have to have these laws or something like them.

1) No. In fact, most state laws don't treat it as such. It's only statutory rape if one party is above the age of consent (which, BTW, is not universally 18, it's 16 in some states and 17 in others).

2) In that situation, the 14 year old is raping the 23 year old.


The thing is boys and girls are different, but that's hard to codify into law.

[Worst Username Ever]

6. I feel that there is a difference between boys and girls too

but the teahcer-rape thread has people who disagree that there are any differences, hormone/urge-wise. I seem to recall though that men reach sexual prime in their teens, while women don't reach theirs till their late 30's...

[sandnsea]

8. Women don't have urges?

We're asexual? Boys can't be confused and harmed by a manipulative sexual relationship before they're ready?

Ugh, we've got so much work to do in this country. *sigh*

[Worst Username Ever]

10. I didn't say there are not urges,

I am not sure where you see that, but I said I believe that the level of these urges is different. Not saying it is ok for their behavior, I am just saying that woman and men peak at different times.

[sandnsea]

17. Which means what???

What's it got to do with anything? In fact, I raised 3 boys. My husband coached a boys boxing team for years. Most don't even begin to mature until 16. Your arguments are just ridiculous and I don't understand the need. Does it bother you to think a woman could take advantage of you or have sexual power over you? Just don't get it.

[Worst Username Ever]

21. If my argument is ridiculous, then don't respond to it.

I would more than welcome a woman having sexual power over me, sounds like fun!

Seriously though, I am not stating a personal opinion, but rather a fact of life that the primary hormone (testosterone) that drives sexual urges runs higher in teenage boys that it does in girls, and it begins to run higher in women in their 30's. My point is that when someone says there is nothing differnet sexually between teenage boys and girls, that is an incorrect statement. Again, not saying acting on these is legally or morally correct, but there is, in, fact, a difference.

[sandnsea]

22. No there isn't

It just isn't true that every 14 year old boy is a walking hormone factory ready to hump everything in sight any more than it's true that every 14 year old girl is a Lolita, seducing every man in sight. It's just not true. Perpetuating the idea that a 14 year old would consider himself "lucky" to find that 23 year old woman is harmful to boys and keeps you men stuck in stereotypes that come back to haunt you time and time again. Men do get raped, men do get beaten by women, boys can be harmed by statutory rape.

[Worst Username Ever]

23. Aaaannnd...

Where did I say that every 14 year old ready to hump everything, where did I say that every 14 year old girl is a lolita, where did I say that a 14 year old would consider himself lucky to to have sex with a 23 year old, where did I say that men don't get raped, men don't get beaten, and that boys cannot be harmed by stautuory rape?

I will make the statement again: Sex drives peak for men and women at different levels in their lives. Period.

[mrboba1]

24. Holy cow sandnsea

I didn't see anything in shylock's post to make you go off the deep end.

[sandnsea]

25. It's stupid

Sorry. Anybody who would mix up statutory rape and rape isn't thinking clearly. And the statement that men and women "peak" at different ages clearly implies that a 14 year old boy isn't being taken advantage of. Which is the exact same reasoning behind some people saying 14 year old girls can't be taken advantage of, the stereotype that they're Lolitas seducing the adult male, who we all know has more of a sexual drive than women. :eyes:

I found the whole thing sickening. I don't understand the need to blur all these lines in order to make some obscure point. I asked Shylock and he never answered either.

[sandnsea]

26. Then what's your point?

What's sex drive got to do with an adult taking advantage of a minor?

[Worst Username Ever]

28. READ the post:

Truthspeaker's comment: "The thing is boys and girls are different, but that's hard to codify into law."

My comment: "I feel that there is a difference between boys and girls too but the teahcer-rape thread has people who disagree that there are any differences, hormone/urge-wise. I seem to recall though that men reach sexual prime in their teens, while women don't reach theirs till their late 30's..."

THAT is my point. People seem to feel that there is no difference between boys and girls, which is false. I never said it was right, I never endorsed any behavior (again, read the original thread: "Just soliciting opinions, not taking a side"). You can say I "clearly implied" anything you want, but next time you indicate that I don't think men are raped, I would appreciate a direct quote from me proving so.

[sandnsea]

30. Read YOUR post

"1) If two 14 year olds have sex, are they raping each other? (I ask because I am hearing that a 14 year old cannot give consent, no matter what)

2) If a 14 year old FORCIBLY has sex with a 23 year old, who is raping who?
(I ask because I heard someone say that no matter what the situation, a 23 year old having sex with a 14 year old is always rape)

I am just posting this because some people seem to have some very strict definitions of what they consider to be rape and what they do not consider to be rape."

This muddled thinking clearly has somethig to do with your perception of the differences between the sexual drive of 14 year old boys and 14 year old girls. It's stupid, sorry, it just is.

[Worst Username Ever]

31. Right, sandnsea, you got me nailed, what can I say.

Stating what I was hearing from other boards is clearly "muddled" thinking. Whatever was I doing?

[sandnsea]

32. You betcha'

duck, dodge, run, squirm. You haven't answered one question I've put to you. Whatever.

[porphyrian]

13. Hey, at least he wasn't advocating female circumcision... - n/t

[Worst Username Ever]

16. I wasn't advocating anything at all... n/t

[slackmaster]

3. Anyone forcing anyone else into a sexual act is rape

Regardless of anyone's age.

That obvious point aside, definitions of statutory rape, child molestation, child rape, sexual battery of a minor, etc. all vary by state law in both the terminology used and the actual definitions.

[MsUnderstood]

4. There are 2 types of rape that you are discussing

There are 2 types of rape, statutory and standard.

Standard rape is one person forcing him/herself on another. It is a power struggle. So if a 14 year old is forcing himself on a 23 year old, then the 14 year old is performing standard rape.

If the sex is consentual, statutory rape applies if one of the consenting partners is under 18 and the other is over 18.

HOWEVER, for determining it, there is a scale of age ranges (at least in California). for example, a 17 year old and a 19 year old would not get involved in a stat rape case.

[Literate Tar Heel]

5. the laws vary widely by state

here in N.C., I think the legal age of consent is 16, and I could be wrong, but I think there may be a provision about the difference in age between the people, i.e. that 14 or 15 is legal if the other person is within 3 years of age or something like that (so it's not a crime for a 16 year old boy to have sex with his girlfriend who is 15 and a half, for instance)

[sandnsea]

7. statutory rape isn't assaultive rape

Stop mixing the two up. Two totally different crimes. So if a 14 year assaults someone with a knife and rapes them, it isn't statutory rape and has absolutely nothing to do with that other thread. And please give yourself a thunk on the head for even attempting to fudge it by doing that.

Statutory rape is consentual sex. The reason the older person is responsible is because, well gee, they're older.

In most state law that I'm aware of, it's either 18 or 3 years difference. Two 14 year olds aren't committing a crime, a 17 year old who has sex with a 14 year old is.

That woman had absolutely no business even thinking about sex with a 14 year old and neither does a man.

What's so complicated about not taking advantage of somebody who doesn't have the maturity level you have?

[Worst Username Ever]

9. So your answer to question #1 is?

OOps! Never mind, I see it now!

[porphyrian]

11. $0.02

1) When I was 14, I didn't give a shit what the law was. If someone would've had sex with me, I would've done it in a second. As an adult, it makes me really fucking nervous that they may be capable of handling the responsibility, but probably wouldn't think about that until it was too late. Still, I don't think two 14 year olds having sex together is mutual rape, that's the ridiculous result of the oversimplification of the issue in order to make a law.

2) I believe that rape is any sexual act intentionally committed against an unconsenting partner. Thus, in your example, I would say the 14 year old was raping the 23 year old. However, I can see where this could be a difficult situation in court, and I would be prejudiced towards accusing the older of the two.

This is a sensitive issue not unlike abortion, and some emotions run high concerning it, so I hope I'm not raising too many hackles. The problem with laws based on age is the assumption that age somehow equates to maturity, which should really be the defining factor in whether or not someone give consent. I'm sure there are some 14 year olds who are far more mature than some of the fifty-somethings I've had the displeasure of working with in the past. However, as I rapidly approach possible fatherhood, I find it harder to accept adult relationships of this kind with minors as OK, no matter how cool it would've been when I was 14.

[Worst Username Ever]

14. I agree that it is eroneous to equate age with maturity!

I was COMPLETELY capable of making my own decisiions at 17, and didn't need a law to tell me that. But a law is a law is a law...

[PsN2Wind]

27. I gotta agree with you

anyone thinking that most 14 year old boys would not be happy to find a 23 year old woman interested in them sexually probably has never been a 14 year old boy.

[Nikia]

29. It's the adults repsonsibilty if they find a consenting 14 year old

To not have sex with the 14 year old and tell him or her that is inappropriate. Many 14 years olds do have sexual urges and also look up to adults. They tend to be more impulsive than older teens and adults. That makes it easy for an adult to take advantage of them. It also makes it easy for an adult to keep on taking advantage of them after the 14 year old might start thinking that sex with this older person was not such a great idea. What is really sad is when the 14 year old later blames him or herself for the situation when someone else finds out about it and arrests their lover, if the relationship was entirely inappropriate (like with a family or clergy member), or involved adultry. It is the adult's responsibility regardless of whether or not the 14 year old felt good at the time.

[HEyHEY]

12. In Canada the legal age of consent is 14

So, again US law doesn't determine morality.

I should ad that it's 14 to have sex, not to have sex with someone over 18.

[porphyrian]

15. "So, again US law doesn't determine morality."

Shhhhh!!! The Republicans might hear you!

[HEyHEY]

19. I wish they would!

:-)

[HEyHEY]

20. I wish they would!

:-)

[sandnsea]

18. Mostly here too

The age of complete legal consent is 18. Like I said above, in most states I'm aware of, a 3 year age difference is when statutory rape can be considered among minors. Two 14 year olds wouldn't be committing a crime in any state I'm aware of.