It's still okay for Democrats to be anti-Arab racists

[bigbillhaywood]

Democratic Party positions on the Iraq War, Syria and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict seem to bear this out.

At least "liberal" Democrats have learned over the last 40 years to give at least face-value to sensitivity towards anti-Black racism, whereas Arabs and Muslims are still the bad guys in many people's books (especially with the I/P conflict).

Not that the Democratic Party is itself to blame, they are merely reflecting the state of our current society. Look at movie roles for Arabs (often played by Israelis, like in "True Lies"), nearly always a cab driver or terrorist. Imagine if 95% of all roles for Black characters were crack dealer or house servant. It wouldn't be tolerated today, but then again, Black people have over 300 years of domestic struggle to thank for that, whereas Arabs don't.

With immigration patterns being what they are, however, Arabs and Muslims will soon be a very sizable minority in the US. I wonder when the Civil Rights struggle for Arab and Muslim Americans will reach critical mass. When will Arab-Americans and Muslim-Americans have their Martin Luther King, Jrs., Rosa Parks, Malcolm Xs, Huey P. Newtons? When will we have our Montgomery Bus Boycott, our March on Washington, our Detroit rebellion? Will I be dead? Will I be locked up in a Bushevik detention camp? Or will I have won the Powerball and no longer give a shit what happens to other Arab-Americans? Hopefully, it's the last one.

[G_j]

1. not gonna let this one sink

think about it! we have to turn this situation around !!!

[bigbillhaywood]

5. kickin it old school

[lottie244]

60. This is the real 'anti-Semitism' If anyone has the nerve to call it like

it really is.

[wuushew]

2. It was never okay in my opinion

but that is politics for you

[bigbillhaywood]

3. Self-serving kick

[G_j]

4. I think the point you make

is right on target and something that many main stream Dems don't like to look at.
It is of course not just people of political affiliation its our society in general. Just look at how Arabs (and other ppl of color)have been portrayed in (liberal Hollywood's)movies.

Look at the war on (some) drugs-
Look at the population of our prisons
Look at who gets the death penalty
lets just look

[xchrom]

6. the thing i find so fascinating in this case, is what

happened to independent thought in the wake of 9-11.
when you think of the number of people who turned out to stop the war in iraq -- and the behavior of democratic politicians -- it boggles the mind.
there are many twists and turns in your thoughts and they ring sadly true.
but the scenario i described still bothers me to no end.

[formernaderite]

7. at the risk of sounding anti-semitic...

...don't you think this has something to do with our blanket support of all things Israel?

For full disclosure....I'm an atheist who believes all religion to be a crutch for personal failures. I just see the plight of the palestinians...and realize that republican or democrat won't make much of a difference.

Here's to hoping we can get Ms. Cynthia Mckinney back in congress!

[Malikshah]

8. Anti Israel does not equal anti semitic

Only those who cannot defend Israel with rational, factually based arguments leap to the anti-semitic moniker.

There's no need to qualify your statement with "at the risk of" among folks who can discuss an issue rationally and unemotionally.

:)

[CaTeacher]

9. I see just as much anti-Arab bigotry

on the left as on the right. (Although I do think the left is more sympathetic to the plight of the Palestineans.)

I know many RWers who think highly of the Arabs--and defend them heartily (not Arabs who are anti-Westerners, but Arabs like those within the House of Saud etc--ones who supply our oil etc) these Arabs are beloved by the RW. On the other hand, I don't think the left loves Arabs, but they do have sympathy for the Palestineans.

[bigbillhaywood]

12. Well, I do think it has to do w/ US support for Israel, but that's only

the tip of the iceberg. I think four things are at play here:

1. Terrorism (let's not ignore the 500 lb. gorilla in the room).

2. US support for Israel and the War in Iraq are just an extention of a US policy of imperialism in the Middle East going back decades. In recent years, the global hegemony of US imperial power (after collapse of USSR), and the rise of the neocons have ratched up this imperial Middle East policy. It ties in nicely with the historically racist tendencies of America's rather sizable right-wing, as well as more moderate (read: conservative anywhere else in the world) Democrats. The neocons have been predicting a "clash of civilizations" with the Arab world since the late 80s/early 90s.

3. America has had a long history of racism against immigrants, especially when they have dark skin and speak language other than English. Arabs and Muslims are among the newest immigrants, so until their numbers, organization and/or economic/social power reach a critical mass, they will continue to suffer the worst discrimination.

4. Unlike most of America's immigrants throughout history, they have a religion other than Christianity. This is particularly threatening to many Americans, especially in the wake of Islamic fundamentalist terrorism. There was a huge anti-Catholic sentiment for years in this country against Irish and Italian immigrants, but at least they had white skin and worshipped Christ, so it's not very prevalent today. The closest analogy would likely be to the Jews, who still have to deal with a lot of anti-Semitic shit here. But the Jews have a longer history in this country, so were able to develop into an economically and politically stronger group which helped them to escape from some of the worst bigotry against them.

[MissAnnThrope]

38. That 500 lb Gorilla

Is the biggest thing as far as I can tell. There are lots of people out there who have decided the only good Arab is a dead Arab. If you try to tell them there are Arabs who aren't Muslim and who aren't terrorists, you get told you don't know what you're talking about.

Now since the terrorist attacks, people do regard those who even look like they might be Middle Eastern with suspicion. It's not just here either. Look at what other countries are doing.

But there's also that lesser ape that's been around since the 1970s. Oil. Our dependence on Middle Eastern oil. Our suspicions of OPEC. I've long thought that if we found other sources of energy, or reduced our dependence on Middle Eastern oil, a good bit of the suspicion would go away.

Let's also not forget all those newsreels in the 1980s of students in Iran holding up signs calling America "The Great Satan". Those images are planted in our subconscious. We may not remember them directly, but the vague memories are there.

[liberalitch]

10. racism of any kind is unacceptable......

racism of any kind by ANYONE....
I'm sure you know that though

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Silence, as usual, from the Democratic leadership.

At best, we can hope for a more realistic and even-handed approach if Kerry is elected. Though his recent support for the apartheid wall doesn't seem to indicate that will happen.

Israel shows how well a policy of military "anti-terror" works. Decades of occupation and repression have produced nothing but violence and more violence.

[theboss]

13. Aside from media images, what discrimination do Arabs in the US face?

First of all, not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs. I know you keep that disctinction in your post but I don't want to confuse the issue. I think it is a big distinction since the threat in the world today is not rise of Arab Nationalism but Muslim Extremism (which again is often tied to Arab Nationalism, but is not the same thing as Iran and Pakistan would prove).

As for Arabs in the US, is there mass discrimination approaching the scale that blacks faced prior to the 60s? I mean, it's very difficult for a Montgomery Bus Boycott when you are allowed to ride the bus.

Arabs - by and large - seem to be assimilating rather well in the US, certainly better than they are assimilating in Europe. I simply don't think Civil Rights is going to be a huge issue for Arabs in this country since I don't ever see the US passing laws banning headscarves, etc (like some other countries I could name). What I mean is, government-enforced discrimination is highly unlikely here.

What is going to be an issue is US foreign policy in the Mid-East. This is a separate issue to civil rights. I can see where we need to be more even-handed with the Arab States, but the bottom line is Democrats should support democracies. Israel is a democracy. No Arab state is. The democracy should always get our support.

Abandoning Israel would be an asinine decision for any Democrat.

[Malikshah]

14. Sorry that racist taunts, hate crimes, and the like

Aren't enough. Being called towel-heads and sand nword isn't good enough?

Ok. so Arabs can vote. Great. Just a few random attacks, etc. That's OK.

Jeezum crow, this is beyond the pale.

[theboss]

15. That is not a civil rights struggle

The Civil Rights struggle grew out of government-enforced discrimination. Being called "sand nigger" by a redneck as you drive to Florida for vacation is offensive and wrong, but it is not an act of discrimination anymore than me being called an asshole by that chick who runs the kiosk in the mall.

I mean, what law needs to either be passed or revoked to prevent someone from being called a "towelhead?" That's what the "Civil" in civil rights stands for....civil law. It was a legal struggle.

[bigbillhaywood]

18. See post 16 for examples of gov't enforced discrimination against Arabs

and Muslims.

[Name removed]

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[sangh0]

26. Have you read the thread?

And it's OP?

This thread is about anti-Arab racism

[Name removed]

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[sangh0]

30. This thread is about anti-Arab racism

and to speak of the US's support for Israel in such a thread is the same as implying that US support for Israel is an example of that.

Why else would you bring up the US's support for Israel in a thread about the Democratic Party's supposed anti-Arab racism?

[bigbillhaywood]

33. I said it is a factor, but not the only one.

I said US support for Israel plays into anti-Arab racism. I never said US support for Israel=anti-Arab racism. In fact, if you had read my posts, you would see that I think US support for Israel is actually part of a larger policy of US Middle East imperialism. It has to do with the imperial interests of the nation-state more than racism, but racism against Arabs makes it easier for people to swallow. After all, who cares if a few Arabs get killed while we expand our economic and military empire-- they're not like us anyway.

See the distinction? Of course you don't, you labled me an anti-Semite off the bat with no jutification.

[sangh0]

36. Context

Yes, you did point out that our support for Israel is a part of our larger policy of US Mid East imperialism. So why didn't you point out how this refutes the notion that Dem policies (or US policies) wrt to Israel (and wrt other issues) is not an indication of our anti-Arab racism, but instead an example of how, in our quest for imperial power, we just don't give a damn about the race of those we oppress?

We are just as willing to use our powers to oppress white people as we are to use it to oppress other races. Just look at how Bush* treats European nations that don't support his Iraqi "adventure".

ANd while it may be true that our Israel policy does "play into" anti-Arab bigotry, I haven't seen any evidence of anti-Arab bigotry on the part of Democrats in this thread, and that's what this thread is about. I see a lot of dancing around the subject, and vague references to how certain anti-Arab policies (such as racial profiling or the detaining of Arabs on minor immigration violations) are somehow evidence of the Dems bigotry, but I have yet to see one example of the Dems being anti-Arab racists. In case you haven't noticed, that's what this thread is about, and there's not one example of it in the entire thread

[bigbillhaywood]

41. We don't kill the French for disagreeing with us, and we don't supply

arms to a country that does. America kills brown-skinned people in their quest for Imperial power, because that's about all racist Americans will tolerate. That's why it's okay for us to invade Iraq for oil and supply arms to one of our regional client States which is killing Palestinians by the thousands, militarily occupying them and annexing their land. It's also why we can sell arms to the Saudis and others guilty of human rights abuses of their own citizens. Because they are Arabs, so who gives a fuck?

[sangh0]

44. We need their trade

An extremely large portion of our international trade is with Europe, so we are not as free to get bloody with them. If they didn't buy so much of our output, we wouldn't hesitate to treat them similarly.

That's why it's okay for us to invade Iraq for oil and supply arms to one of our regional client States which is killing Palestinians by the thousands, militarily occupying them and annexing their land. It's also why we can sell arms to the Saudis and others guilty of human rights abuses of their own citizens. Because they are Arabs, so who gives a fuck?

No, not because they are Arabs. It's because they have no money, and no way to fight back, so we don't hesitate to kill them. The Chinese are hated by the neo-cons as much as they hate the Arabs, but we're not so quick to invade China. China has nukes. China has money.

We bombed the Serbs. They're white.

[bigbillhaywood]

48. Yeah, your boys did that only under pressure from other NATO allies.

[Name removed]

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[bigbillhaywood]

56. Your boys (the Democrats) only did that (bomb Serbia) under pressure

from NATO allies. Now you get it?

[Malikshah]

42. "Dancing around the subject"

Sorry, those connections are being made by some who wish to relegate this thread to the "anti-semitic" black hole of threads.

It may work--but I congratulate those who stick to the point--
Anti-Arab racism is prevalent in the US among Republicans and Democrats alike. Those who do not see that, are willfully ignoring the obvious.

[Name removed]

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[sangh0]

51. What connections?

You keep claiming there are connections, but all I've seen mentioned here are the thiings Republicans have been doing.

[Name removed]

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[bigbillhaywood]

55. If my post had a whiff of anti-Semitism, then the poster must have

a whiff of anti-Semitism, too, since, no one else but me drafted the post. It was a polite way to brand me a bigot.

[Malikshah]

23. Ah--so it's OK then

It doesn't lead to job discrimination, housing discrimination, hate crimes. etc.

None of these issues above have anything to do with Civil Rights, then.

Oh, OK. thanks for enlightening the masses.

[sangh0]

28. Job discrimination, housing discrimination, hate crimes, etc

are ILLEGAL, even when committed against Arabs. WHat do you want the Democrats in Congress to do; pass ANOTHER law to make it illegal again?

What good will that do?

[bigbillhaywood]

29. Yeah, how about stronger enforcement of the laws. And how about

not deporting every one of us that forgot to cross a "t" on some immigration paperwork. And how about not rounding thousands of us up like cattle on no basis other than our ethnicity after terrorist attacks?

[sangh0]

31. Umm, have you noticed who is running the DOJ?

Or do think Ashcroft is a Dem?

I'm against those things every bit as much as you. I have no idea why you think Ashcroft's deportations and other abuses are a sign that the Dems are anti-Arab bigots, when they have been fighting against these things.

(Disclaimer: I work for an org that has helped free scores of Arab detainees. I know for a fact that Dems support us and Repukes do not)

[bigbillhaywood]

34. Not every Dem has, only some. And the Party itself has not taken this

up as a major plank of their platform. Many Dem leaders are silent on the issue. When they do help out, it is often quietly, they don't try to bring it to the forefront of national debate where it should be.

[sangh0]

39. That is a ridiculous argument

Do you really believe that the Dems are anti-Arab racists merely because "not every Dem has"? Do you really expect EACH AND EVERY Democrat to agree completely with each other? Would you even WANT them to exhibit such group think?

Furthermore, the Democratic Party HAS taken it up in their platform. Maybe you don't like the fact that the Dems don't focus on anti-Arab racism, choosing instead to defend EVERYBODY'S rights, but the fact remains that the Dems support civil rights and have opposed Bush*'s anti-Arab policies on numerous occasions.

Also, I have no idea what you mean by "major" plank. As far as I know, the Dem platform is not divided into major and minor planks.

they don't try to bring it to the forefront of national debate where it should be.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

As if the corporate media is going to let the Democratic Party decide what the national debate will be about.

PS - I noticed you have been completely silent about who is running the DOJ. Does that mean you think your blaming of the Dems for Ashcroft's actions was inappropriate?

[bigbillhaywood]

43. There is a reason I'm voting for Kerry. His administration will not be

as bad on as many counts as Bush and Ashcroft-- that's just one count.
But it doesn't mean that the Democratic Party as a whole is standing up to challenge anti-Arab racism-- they are not. And silence is complicity in my book.

[sangh0]

47. I said nothing about voting for Kerry.

and your assertions about what the Dem party "as a whole" has done won't convince me of anything other than your ability to make unsupported assertions.

Give me one example of Dems "as a whole" engaging in "anti-Arab racism"?

[bigbillhaywood]

50. The Party is silent on the issue. Silence is complicity.

Already explained that.

[sangh0]

53. It isn't silent

Individual Democrats, and the Democratic Party have all stated their opposition to Bush* infringements of civil rights.

[theboss]

63. I don't know what you consider to be racist

Hate crimes against Arabs in the US is racist, and no Democrat stands for it.

Job discrimination against Arabs in the US is racist, and no Democrat stands for it.

US support of Israel is not racist. It should be an important part of our party's platform, along of course with seeking a peaceful solution. But a solution that leads to the destruction of Israel should always be 100 percent off-the-table.

Furthermore US support of Israel is not related to discrimination agains Arabs in the US.

[bigbillhaywood]

65. Oftentimes, it not what the Democratic Party is standing for, it is what

they are not standing for. Silence is complicity in my opinion. Very few politicians, Democrat or Republican, are willing to stick their neck out for a group that will have little effect on the outcome of their election, and whom most of America hates.

And the US could force a settlement between Israel and Palestine any time it wanted, but the truth of the matter is that the US government doesn't desire an independent and viable Palestinian state anymore than Israel does.

[bigbillhaywood]

16. Well, we could debate until our fingers gave out over whether

Israel deserves support because it is a "democracy", but I will just say this: it is not a question of supporting Israelis vs. Arabs. It is a question of supplying billions of dollars in weapons and aid to a country which is a gross human rights violator and in violation of many UN resolutions. This should be applied both to Israel, as well as the Arab nations we support. The structure of the government is important, but less so, because Western-style "democracies" (I put it in quotes for a reason, hint) can deprive people of human rights just as easily as autocracies can-- for example nearly 200 years of slavery and Jim Crow in the US.

Which brings me to my next point. You are correct in pointing out that no obvious institution or set of laws such as Jim Crow or Apartheid currently exist in the US for Arabs, Muslims, or any ethnic group. However, there are obviously many cases of institutional racism that go beyond the level of individual people (though don't underestimate individual acts-- there have been more hate crimes against people appearing to be Arab and Muslim than any other group in recent years).

Some examples of such institutional racism--"Flying While Arab" is an example, where Arabs, Muslims and other scary dark-skinned people are removed from airlines on the basis that they make a passenger or flight crew member "uncomfortable". Legalized racial profiling at airports and elsewhere is another example. Employment and educational discrimination is common. The INS has deported thousands of Arabs and Muslims for minor visa discrepancies (often heads of households leaving behind their family members to struggle)-- at a much higher rate than those of other national/religious backgrounds. And let's not forget that thousands of Arabs and Muslims were rounded up and detained by the FBI for months (sometimes tortured) shortly after 9/11-- 99% were released after it was found their only crime was being Arab or Muslim, many only to be processed for deportation on the basis of a minor immigration irregularity. I'd say that's pretty big.

And I don't remember those hundreds of thousands of people protesting the Iraq War being in the streets while that was going on. Apparently being anti-war is more chic than defending the civil liberties of Arabs and Muslims.

[The Stranger]

24. Do you consider Guantanamo to be "in the U.S."?

Those can't be just media images of the old men chained in dog kennels and circus cages, can it?

Certainly the roundups of tens of thousands of people across the country by John D. Ashcroft was not based on their race or ethnicity, was it?

What about the various databases that the "Justice Department" and various federal agencies are establishing to identify, tag and track people of a certain ethnicity?

Seen any movies lately where the villains are savage, subhuman, dark-skinned "A-Rabs"? Oh, wait, maybe you mentioned that.

Been on the Yahoo boards, where every other post calls for the mass murder of Arabs and Muslims?

Seen any White Supremacist Fundamentalist Christians lately talking about Islam as Satanic, evil, terrorist?

Have you actually spoken to any Arabs or Muslims and had them describe to you the disgusting open racism they face every day, at work, school and in their neighborhoods?

You are either being very naive or disingenuous.

[WilliamPitt]

17. Arab-American Voters Overwhelmingly Back Kerry

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=5684415

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Concern about civil liberties and the war in Iraq have pushed President Bush's already low support among Arab-American voters in key battleground states even lower, a survey showed on Thursday.

In a poll of Arab-American voters in the key states of Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida only 24 percent said they would vote for Bush, a dip from 30 percent in April, while 51 percent supported Democratic nominee John Kerry.

In the poll, conducted between July 9 and 11, 13 percent supported independent candidate Ralph Nader, who is of Lebanese descent.

"Maybe if Bush said 'I'm sorry' and fired (Attorney General John) Ashcroft and (Vice President Dick) Cheney, that might make a difference," said James Zogby, president of the Arab American Institute, which commissioned the poll.

Ashcroft has been targeted by rights groups for security measures introduced since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, some of which have impacted Arab-Americans, and Cheney is criticized by opponents for unwavering support for invading Iraq.

Bush narrowly won the Arab-American vote in 2000, but 69 percent in the latest poll said Bush did not deserve to be re-elected, including 30 percent of those who identified themselves as Republicans.

Although they comprise only about one percent of the national electorate, the 500,000 Arab-Americans expected to vote in these four swing states could make the difference in a close race, especially in Michigan where they make up 5 percent of the overall electorate.

...more...

[bigbillhaywood]

19. And other than the fact that we Arab-Americans are smart enough to

recognize Bush is MORE anti-Arab than Kerry and the Democratic Party, this proves what? And don't ask me for quotes from Kerry proving he is anti-Arab, because I couldn't give you overtly racist quotes from Bush either. It's a question of policy. I don't remember Kerry sticking up for us when we were being rounded up by the thousands on no basis whatsover (other than our religion or ethnicity) after 9/11.

Disclaimer: Not technically "our" religion as not all Arabs are Muslims and vice-versa, and I'm a proud athiest.

[sangh0]

32. I have been personally witnessed Dems helping Arab detainees

I don't remember Kerry sticking up for us when we were being rounded up by the thousands on no basis whatsover ...

I work for an organization that has gotten scores of Arab and Muslim detainees freed. I have personally witnessed the support we have recieved for this from Dems, and personally witnessed the hostility to this from Repukes. Maybe you haven't, but I have.

[bigbillhaywood]

35. See post #34

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[sangh0]

54. "That must annoy you to have to help them"

Why do you think that would annoy me?

I work for an org that helps thousands of people that most Americans would like to see suffer or even die (like criminals, illegal immigrants, etc) and I'm proud of that fact

[bigbillhaywood]

57. ACLU or NLG?

[redqueen]

21. Just like always, most people just follow the herd

Or worse, are actively racist out of ignorance or hatred.

What a way to start the weekend. :(

[noiretextatique]

58. racism is as american as apple pie

american attitudes about a whole host of others, including arabs and muslims is steeped in misguided notions about supremacy of one sort or another. clearly this isn't true of every individual democrat, or every individual republican for that matter. but...i think america has a long, long, long way to go before it can claim to be "color-blind"...and that includes the democratic party. i agree with you: most of america's wars have racist overtones.
republicans are just not as shy about being bigots, and i do blame bush, inc in particular for the increase in arab/muslim hatred.
thanks for your timely and important post.

[bigbillhaywood]

59. H. Rap Brown

His original quote was "Racism is as American as cherry pie". Doesn't sound as good as "Apple pie" though.

[noiretextatique]

62. cherry it is

the symbolism is even better with cherry :D

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[bigbillhaywood]

64. Point taken.

The Black experience of racism in this country is a long and unique one that bears some similarities, although many differences, to racism experienced by other ethnic minorities. Historically speaking you are correct, Blacks have suffered much worse than Arabs.

However, there has been pervasive anti-Arab bigotry in this country for some time, and since 9/11 Arabs are suffering the worst of the racist attacks in this country (both individual and institutional), although everyone is suffering. To believe Democrats are immune from this bigotry is naive. There are plenty of Democrats racist against Blacks as well-- the difference being is that the Democrats know they have to pay some lip service to fighting anti-Black racism in this country to get elected.

Arab and Muslim Americans are not numerous enough or well organized enough to where any politician (Democrat or Republican) feels they need to pay attention to us-- don't forget that very few politicians, D or R, do things for altruistic reasons, they do it for money and votes. So, when we are under attack, at home or abroad, most (though certainly not all) Democratic leaders fall silent. The only thing most of them can peep up is "Don't beat up the Pakistani store owner, that's wrong" or "You are not prosecuting the War correctly" (rarely "the War is wrong") or "Bush isn't doing enough to help establish peace in the Middle East" (not "we should stop arming the Israelis until they stop annexing Arab land")

The Democratic Party was largely silent about the post 9/11 sweeps and detentions of thousands of Arab and Muslim males on no basis whatsoever and has done little to stop the racist deportations. Same with "flying while Arab" institutional discrimination. And to me silence = complicity.

I could enumerate specific examples of Democratic Party racism against Arabs, particularly from Gephardt, Lieberman, Hillary Clinton, and Chuck Schumer, but I don't even need active examples of racism to prove my point. Doing nothing to stop it is good enough for me.

Yes, the neocons are a much bigger enemy than the Democrats (even the conservative, voted for Iraq War and unconditional support for Israel Democrats). But lets face facts here, very few Democrats are going to stick their necks out for some Arabs and Muslims that won't decide an election for them and who the rest of America hates.

As for your comment about my "personal hangups with Caucasians", I'm half-white, and I probably have more white friends than Arab friends, so you should refrain from making such a comment without knowing who you are addressing it to. Just like the poster who accused me of being an anti-Semite, who has no clue that many of my friends are Jewish (and sometimes we debate on I/P issues, but none of them would stoop so low as to call me a bigot)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

66. Quite frankly, I don't personally have to refrain from making ANY....

...comments on DU as long as I'm not breaking any of the board rules.

You started this discussion...if you can't handle the responses, too bad.

[bigbillhaywood]

67. I didn't say you had to, I said you should. I conceded a point you made

Would it pain you so much to admit you were in error when you said I had "personal hangups" with Caucasians?

[bigbillhaywood]

69. No. Okay. I'll alert then. I guess we'll find out if the mods have the

same interpretation of DU rules as you do.

[Fescue4u]

68. deleted

self deleted

[Moderator]

70. Locking

This thread has turned into little more than invectives and sniping.Its time has come to "rest" now.