Right-wing patient of mine...

[PCIntern]

comes in Friday and he's loaded for bear. He says to me, first thing, that the media jumped all over Cheney because he vented at that "asshole" who was crapping all over him for Halliburton, and impugning his character. (Imagine that)

I let him really have it - I said to him, no lie, "OK, you have a point. Now why don't YOU go FUCK YOURSELF. Howzzat? I feel better about all of this now."

He just stared at me and I didn't wait. "Seems inappropriate for a doctor's office, doesn't it? No less appropriate on the Senate floor. The same Senate floor which you and your ilk disgraced with obscenitites layered in righteous indignation over our last legitimate President. So go and fuck yourself."

now I've known this guy for years, so he joined in the battle and it went on and on and I just kept saying either, fuck you, or, my latest fave, "As they say in the prisons of IRaq...", and I give the thumbs up with a leering grin. This guy was so flustered by the end that he didn't have too much to say about anything. I gave him his usual Rx's and he left mad as hell.

I went out the back door, and I finished by saying at the elevator, you guys can dish it out but you have no thickness to your skin. You're lucky you're not a minority, you'd shrivel up..."

See, they can't take the frontal assault - they just back right the hell down or ask why you hate America. I ask them, why do THEY hate the America that we all were inculcated with growing up in the 50's and 60's - the Constitution, etc. Don't these bastards know that they're next? Morans.

[NMDemDist2]

1. bullies alway back down

because they are cowards at heart

[LittleApple81]

2. Wow... you were great!!!! They have to be confronted... and we liberals

are too accommodating by far.

[fishnfla]

3. that is just so wrong! So unprofessional!

and so way cool, you got chutspah

[classof56]

4. Wow!

Glad you're a part of DU. Sounds like you're practicing in an area where you'll have lots of opportunities to "Sock it to them", as they used to say back in the 60s. Congrats!

[NC_Nurse]

5. Awesome!

Good for you for not swallowing that BS!

:D

[ChocolateSaltyBalls]

6. Actually..........

The 'media' didn't jump all over Cheney at all, they simply reported what he said....and that he 'felt better after saying it'.

Now, had it been Gore (when VP) who said the same, there would have been heads exploding from CNN to the Wall Street Journal.

[newyawker99]

43. Hi ChocolateSaltyBalls!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Baltimoreboy]

7. Enjoy your license

for what little time you have it.

What a way to battle stupid behavior, with stupid and unprofessional behavior.

[fudge stripe cookays]

12. PC's word against the patient's.

How many of us have had to deal with stupid unprofessional freeper crap in everyday life?

I didn't realize until my hair was sopping wet in a sink yesterday that the stylist I picked for convenience in the mall was listening to KLTY (crappy Christian station) and was hardcore freeper. What if I'd been a Muslim customer? Or Hindu?

We need to show these people that we won't back down WHEREVER we are. Plenty of us have had to deal with this shit in professional environments. I remember one DUer talking about a doctor recently that was babbling drivel. How was it different?

I applaud this DUer.
FSC

[Baltimoreboy]

14. You applaud unprofessional behavior?

How nice.

I don't -- on the right or the left.

The poster is a doctor for goodness sake.

This is nothing like a stylist listening to a radio station. No stylist takes the Hippocratic oath. If you don't like the music, shop elsewhere and tell them why.

[PCIntern]

18. Hippocratic Oath?

Relational Medicine is where it's at - if you can't communicate, you're lost. At least these folk know what's coming...my patients, all 8000-10000 (depending upon what you call 'active') are loyal and respectful because they know that I'm a whole person - not some phony snot-nosed fool who's BSing them.

[Hoping4Change]

34. I can't tell you how much I respect that kind of authenticity.

And even though he stormed off, I'm sure your words cut deep and made an impression. It is that sort of spunk that I admire most about Americans.

[Baltimoreboy]

38. If my doc had said this, I'd file a formal complaint

With every agency and organization I could find. Then I'd hit the media.

[Forkboy]

42. I believe it

[NashVegas]

82. No, I Would, Too

I'd wonder if the good doctor hasn't been taking some of his own prescriptions.

[Mika]

56. A formal complaint? LOL You would get nowhere

Unless its an emergency, freedom is messy.

Two BIG :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Doc.

[Speed8098]

62. And exactly what would you hope to accomplish

Are you trying to say that because you are a doctor, you should relinquish your right to freedom of speech?

I don't get why you seem incensed at this person voicing their opinion to an obvious bushbot.

Maybe you can clear that up for me.

Would you try to file a complaint if these things were said by, say, someone like your landscaper? Or your carpenter? How about your garbage man? Would you feel better if it were one of them instead of your doctor? If so, tell me why.

[Baltimoreboy]

67. Inappropriate location

You go to the doctor for treatment, not politics. If a patient starts a rant, a WISE doctor would simply say this isn't the place for politics, it's a place to focus on your problem and move on.

I don't want my doctor (an aging conservative) to start trying to convert me any more than I want this doctor ranting about Cheney/Bush.

[Speed8098]

71. "I don't want my doctor to start trying to convert me "

Then don't bring up politics in his/her office.

I don't care what your profession is, if someone starts spouting bullsh*t rhetoric that you know is untrue, you need to blast that person back to reality with FACTS

It is NOT a time to remain silent. The right wing is out there spreading it's lies on a daily basis.

* and cheney are STILL trying to make the connection between Iraq and 9/11.

No, the doc was correct to blast this assh*le.

:kick:

Kerry/Edwards
Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Mr_Spock]

125. I've noticed a certain person from Baltimore has an issue

playing devils advocate here. I've now read several threads where this person has taken a rather confrontational position. It's OK to occasionally do that I guess, I'm not sure if you can overdo it though.

[SemperEadem]

94. then don't walk in to someone's office trying to intimidate people

if you don't want to be challenged. No where in the Hippocratic oath does it say that you must relinquish your right to free speech when you obtain your license.

The guy can find another doctor if he's that pissed (perhaps pissed for being put in his place), but using strong language to make a point to someone looking for a fight is not hardly means for license revocation.

In fact, why would you go into someone's office spouting political half-truths when you know nothing about the political persuasion and passion of the person with whom you're talking unless you're a)unbalanced already?... or b) a bully who's used to using intimidating rhetoric into silence anyone he chooses?

The fact is that yes, it is inappropriate language, no matter what the setting. It is inappropriate language to use as part of the public record in the Senate Chamber and the fact that this cretin purposely ignored the bigger picture to "bully" the doctor into silence doesn't mitigate the offense of what Cheney did, ultimately.

[Nadienne]

149. I wouldn't want my doctor

to try to convert me or to consider our political differences while my life is in his hands...

[Misinformed01]

73. For what?? Damage for what?

you would file a lawsuit because someone disagreed with you?

What a whiny person you must be; grow up.

This man's patient initiated the conversation...Dr.'s are NOT required to agree politically with their patients...they are not required not to verbally argue with their patients. They ARE required to render care to the best of their ability.

The RWer obviously likes this poster; he keeps going back.

"I would file a formal complaint." People like you are the reason that we are going to have to hear "trial lawyer" every damned day for the next several months...so, when you hear that RW talking point on CNN, you don't need to ask why.

Stephanie

[kodi]

79. for what? practicing bad language without a license?

.

[Puglover]

111. Wow....did you

tattle to your teacher alot when you were in school when your fellow students did something you didn't like?

[Hamlette]

26. it was the right response

because it used their words to show them how shocking it is to say that in an inappropriate place.

There is no other way to do it but to use those words.

(Those who know me, even here, know that I am the #1 proponent of "let's not do it like they do it because then we become like them" but this one worked.)

As for "unprofessional" conduct when it comes to politics I have found it gets more easily excused. Just make sure you don't start it and you don't make a habit of it.

The BEST way to get these guys is with their own words. When they call Kerry a flip flopper ask them if they have ever changed their mind about something when they learned all the facts, or didn't Bush flip flop on not going to the UN, on not believing in nation building, on his stand on Korea.

[PCIntern]

17. Actually, I won't deny anything...

I've said this stuff in front of assistants, others' family - I don't lie and I'm not embarassed. There are docs all over town complaining to Blue Cross/Blue Shield executives how their plans suck. So what is anyone going to do - complain to some board somewhere that the doc sez that the system's ailing? Gee, no kidding...You should hear the language of the urology group near me - they sound like trck drivers on a bad day.

It's not unprofessional, BTW, to speak the language of your patient. It's as GHWB would say, prudent.

[Hoping4Change]

29. Liberals get screwed because we respect other people opinions

and whereas freepers and fundies don't. That openness has put Liberals at a disadvantage so I'm with you sister about not backing down!

[Baltimoreboy]

39. Not all of us do

As is obvious from this thread.

[Mr_Spock]

127. I'm proud this guy didn't back down. Some Puke at work implied that

all gays rape their adopted children based on one couple he had heard about. I am going to punch his face in if he brings up horrible stuff like that at work again. Want to play a nasty game with good hearted people that DO have compassion? Play at your own risk #$$#@$#@%!

[fishnfla]

13. He cant lose his license for that

there is no nonfeance, there is no malfeance. it has nothing to do with medical treatmnent whatsoever.

even if every member of the medical review board is a wing nut, they can do nothing.

personality conflicts are not addressed by professional review boards, ever.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchtv]

16. nonsense; don't bring up politics,

if you can't take an opposing POV. That is a reasonable view.

[Mika]

57. That's right. The patient brought up the f-bomb

I think that it was an excellent example of how inappropriate Cheney's f-bomb really was. Perfect.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Hoping4Change]

24. Spare me your rant about unprofessionalism. Who the hell is that

jerk to start venting in a doctor's office? Freepers, like Fundies, feel no compunction about spewing their idiocy to whomever they choose and it is often at the expense of those opt for decorum. The freepers venting was simply an attempt at dominance and the good doctor put himn in his place. Venting anger ain't the sole purview of freepers.:mad:

Besides the doctor was obviously doing his job, once he discovered his patient was suffering from delusions he set him right.

[St. Jarvitude]

69. If this patient had come in spewing anti-Semitic crap

And PCIntern were Jewish (I don't know if it's true, and I don't care) and defended his honor with what you call "unprofessional behavior", would you still be quick to attack him?

The freeper's the one who brought up something totally unrelated to the medical profession, and thus it throws the whole "professionalism" thing out the window.

[fishnfla]

8. hey Doc, you can really turn them around on stem cell research

next time someone with a chronic disease asks you if there are any new treatments or research, take it like this:

"Yes, stem cell research looks promising, but... (you know the rest) make sure you mention that the pResident has even taken their hope away. even just the hope of a cure denied

Turns that patient, and their spouse "right" around in their tracks.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. Right. You may want to start praying for a cure...

Because that's the only sort of "science" endorsed by the current administration.

[Lefty48197]

9. It's amazing how thin-skinned the right wingers are

They make careers out of bashing leftists, but if you utter one word in defense of Democrats, or if you point out one of the millions of flaws of the right wing philosophy, then they completely break down and lose their minds. Amazing...

[juajen]

37. My freeper friends and relatives have a pat answer

when you ask them telling questions. It's "I'm just not gonna discuss politics with you any more" or "I'm through talking about this issue" or "You just don't agree with anything the President does, do you?" Well that one usually stops me in my tracks, because I can't honestly say he has done one thing I agree with. This is highly unusual for me. Even when Reagan was President, I could always say he was a good communicator.

[Hello_Kitty]

49. I've noticed that too

It's like "I'm taking my toys and going home 'cuz you won't let me win! Waah!" Isn't it funny how you'll NEVER hear a liberal resort to shutting an opponent down like that. Maybe because most of us are fairly knowledgeable and actually HAVE an argument, eh?

[Sirveri]

123. I remember the media repeatedly saying that he was

championing the extension of unemployment benefits. back in '02 I believe it was. When they were running out and states were applying for additional funds. That did end up helping me out quite a lot.

[PCIntern]

10. Frist (sic) of all Baltimore...

Ain't nuthin' anyone can do licensing-wise about going to to toe with anyone. We actually ahd a dentist in Philly who used to carry a loaded weapon in plain sight - he practiced on Vine Street for years. People were unusually polite to him as you can imagine.

I can't tell you how many times I've had to go at it with some moron (and moran) who thought that little problem he, his wife, or his kid was having was 'no big deal'. If you don't get straight down with these people, they walk - you get their attention quickly and don't let go. I've been doing this 27 years and people listen when you get mad...to quote the great Asimov (loosely): It pays to be obvious, especially when you have the reputation for subtlety.

Secondly, it is not unprofessional, when someone takes you to task, to respond in the manner in which they have requested to be responded to. If someone comes in and says or implies, "I don't think you're so bright" my response is "Opinions vary...but what can I do for you?" If someone comes in and wants to have an intellectual confrontation about right-wing values ( I have the New Republic and the New Yorker in the waiting room - so they get the hint -although TNR lately is getting on my nerves) I'll discuss anything. But when somebody says that it's OK to say 'Fuck you in otherwise civil society, then that's my cue.

[K8-EEE]

19. THIS Is What We ALL Have To Do....NOT TAKE IT ANYMORE!

Thanks Doc!!

[bo44]

20. Seems like you went easy on him to me.

My ass would caught a case debating your dumb freeper patient.

[PCIntern]

21. It actually was more intense and complex

but I'm in no mood to re-hash the whole thing. You've all heard it before...

Good thing my staff are all Dems - I'd hate to work with a Repub right now. My assistant got in trouble in Fahreheit 9/11 for yelling drunkenly at the screen. More power to her...

[bo44]

22. You are to be enshrined in

the tell a freeper to fuck off hall of fame. I am serious. I could not have done what you have done without losing my cool. I am glad you the nimrod have it.

[Hoping4Change]

36. "Tell a freeper to fuck off hall of fame"

Great idea:thumbsup:

[AlienGirl]

28. Yelling drunkenly at the screen?

I apply the "If a Freep did it, what would I say?" test to stuff like that. If a Freeper were yelling drunkenly at the screen during a movie, *any* movie, and making it less enjoyable for the customers, I wouldn't say "More power to them" about it. I can't condone it from someone on our side, either.

Tucker

[DemBones DemBones]

23. Well, you may be an intern but PC? No way!

:evilgrin:

[NC_Nurse]

25. "Professionalism"

and "Ass-kissing" are not the same thing.
When someone comes in ranting at you, they have opened the door to a frank discussion of the subject at hand. I think PC's example of how out of place a "Go Fuck yourself" is in any work environment was right on the money.
If the guy doesn't want to be taken to task for his opinion, he can keep it to himself. I doubt anyone ASKED for it.

[mondo joe]

147. Not so.

Physicians and patients are not on a level playing field. There is a real power imbalance. It's one reason there are so many ethical standards and laws that govern relationships between patients and physicians.

Even if a patient is behaving inappropriately, it doesn't grant the physician to do so as well. There are numerous acceptable responses available to the physician.

I would like people to respond more zealously to freeper types in many contexts. And I'd support an appropriate response in this patricular situation. But this wasn't one.

[Hoping4Change]

27. WOOHOO!!! WAY TO GO DOC!!!!!!

Who is he to start venting in your office? Freepers, like Fundies, feel no compunction about spewing their idiocy to whomever they choose and it is often at the expense of those opt for decorum. The freeper's venting was simply an attempt at dominance and you put him in his place.

You go Doc. Thanks for making my day!:yourock: :toast: :bounce: :party:

[LoZoccolo]

30. "As a rule, I don't discuss politics with my patients."

This seems easy enough to say, I think.

[fishnfla]

40. Thats an easy rule, true, and should be the case normally

but for me, knowing what I know about stem cell research and its myriad possibilities, all bets are off the table.

if a patient asks about new treatments, the truthful answer is that the current president of this country has only allowed investigation of 19 embyonic stem cell lines, when over 600 or more are need to be studied. the embyos should be destroyed rather than used for promising medical research

So sorry patient diabetic, no hope for you.

[Arugula Latte]

31. This is what it has come to.

The right wing has gone way too far. We must fight back. That's all there is to it. This is war. I'm fighting for my side. The other side can go Cheney themselves. Good for you, Doc! :thumbsup:

[Individualist]

32. Bravo, PCIntern

n/t

[saracat]

33. Bravo Doc!

You only showed him by example how inappropriate Cheney is! Three cheers.We don't need to keep quiet about this. We need more people like you!

[wildeyed]

35. He was asking for it

and you gave it to him. Thanks for sharing, I got a good laugh!

:P

[Kanary]

41. The next time you're going to do this, would you please give me notice

so I can be there to watch? :thumbsup:

I gotta tell ya, I'm a bit shocked at the language, but you were absolutely right, and I'm afraid that is what it's going to take.... I'm afraid it's gone so far that attacking back is the only way to get it across.

Clearly, you've been taking your calcium, as your spine is obviously strong enough to not be afraid of losing an (idiot) patient. Wish there was an applause emoticon here!

I've been so tired of RW drs who love to give me hell for the pain I'm in........ I would *love* to see one like you operate (pun intended) from the other side!

Thanks for what you did, and more thanks for sharing it...... you made my day!

Kanary

[PCIntern]

44. I'm frankly surprised at the number

of responses - I was just venting myself.

One of the replies is dead on - when someone opens the door, we have to jump thru. No more Mr. Nice Guy...

My father, of blessed memory, told me that I would face fascism as he had in WW II, but this time it would be in th US from our own. One of the problems the Jews faced in Germany was that they were complacent and no one opended up a mouth to those insane bastards and they wound up going as far as they could, which was very far. If each of us counters these folk IN KIND, we'll at least hold the line and make small advances. The brilliance of the Repub strategy, as many here have pointed out, was that they took baby steps. So do we.

[Kanary]

45. Point well taken, PCIntern.......I'm learning to get a spine.....

and speak up about injustice.

I don't have the power you have, so it ends up making me on the outside even more, but I must do it.

Those with power *must* start doing this, for the very eloquent reasons you have stated.

You don't know how much it would mean to me to be able to find a dr like you who isn't afraid of speaking the truth.

I hope you are also doing the same in response to injustices faced by patients.

Thanks again..........

Kanary

[Hello_Kitty]

48. "Closet" Liberal No More!

For most of my working life I have toiled in male-dominated industries (military and technical) where right wing political views prevail. The conservatives have always felt free to loudly spew second-hand Rush Limbaugh tirades and express opinions that were frankly misogynistic, racist, and/or homophobic. When I ventured forth with an opinion of my own to dispute their ill-informed ignorance I had to tread carefully. I would choose my words carefully so as not to "offend", god forbid, these people. You are right, they are a bunch of hypocritical panty-waists. They have no compunction about disregarding the basic human dignity of anyone who differs from their vision of "normal" and irrelevant personal attacks are their preferred method of argument. Yet, at the slightest whiff of criticism toward them, they turn into the biggest crybabies imaginable. The worst offenders (Limbaugh, Coulter, et. al.) howl the loudest.

Screw that. I'm outta the closet!! I slapped a Kerry bumper sticker on my car and will take on anyone who wants an argument. Like so many liberals, I was overly concerned with being nice and fair. Well, I can still be those things without being a pushover.

[Blue Gardener]

53. I'm with you

If I offend someone because I call them on their bullshit lies, too bad, they shouldn't have brought it up in the first place. I will no longer be silent. Same goes for these absurd right-wing, fundie e-mails I get. If they don't want me to respond to them with the truth, then quit sending me that crap. Nothing they can say to me will change my feelings about the lying crooks in the White House, so they may as well shut up about it.

[JNelson6563]

76. So glad I never had that problem

Like so many liberals, I was overly concerned with being nice and fair.

That must be why I differ from so many here. Never worried too much about being nice or fighting this war fairly. Screw that.

Julie--who knows the only rule in this battle is that there are no rules

[Hoping4Change]

110. youwho, ccbombs!!

Welcome to DU! The "Don't keep up with the Joneses...Drag 'em down to YOUR level!" comment in your profile is brilliant! Glad you're here!:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

46. Yep, that's the tactic I use now too: full frontal assult.

They do NOT know how to handle it... yellow bastards. As you say, they are "morans" and cannot be helped. If you need a second opinion, I recommend a frontal lobotomy for this patient... before November 2nd.

[Renew Deal]

47. lol, nice smackdown.

I think you made your point. I wouldn't fuck with my dentist. Ever see that movie? :scared:

[shanti]

50. many of us are having these discussions

this is great! this has happened to me at least twice in the past 4 months. the first was a remodeling contractor that was bidding a job for me. this man was a talker and once he got going about the chimp, you could not stop him, lol! he had been affected by some of the bad policies, notably, the possible draft of his son.

the second was an ultrasound technician who was not shy at all about discussing iraq. in both cases, we agreed. there's also a coworker that has similar politics, but i don't discuss politics with anywone else.

i'm in california, maybe that's the difference.

[PCIntern]

52. In 1984 I wore a Mondale/Ferraro button

and was heartened by the nature of people in those days. Even the Reagan supporters in my practice were complimentary for the most part. Can you imagine if I did that now?

These people these days act like we have a two party system: The Republican party and the Communist Party known to these bastards as the "Democrat" party. I for one am not taking this lying down anymore. Fact of the matter is that I have a primarily working class practice and interestingly, some of the wealthiest folk who see me, and there are a few fabulously rich, are Dems and vociferous in their support of ABB. Gone are the confusing days of Gore...

Sorry, that pun was a bit of a stretch.

[merh]

51. Way to go - I love this story. You made us proud.

:cheers: :hi:

[Geo55]

54. My wife is a nurse

so I hear lots of stories about doctors displaying obnoxious behaviour......

....but never in a benificial way...lol....kudos Doc.

[PCIntern]

55. there are a lot of medical and dental

and podiatric professionals who feel this way, you might be surprised. Most are too careful playing games and wind up looking like a smacked ass. I was the only one at my college reunion (a small college in Upstate NY - like the Penthouse letters!) to state for the record that I'm a Dem. Others followed relievedly and the Repub converts (liberal when they might have been drafted at the end of the Vietnam War) were silenced. Screw 'em.

[Unperson 309]

58. I Had The Opposite Problem

with a physician a few years back. I went to him for sleeplessness and back pain. His prescription?

Me: "I find that when I am in bed, I can't fall asleep. I will stay awake for hours."

Dr.: "Get up, walk around the block and then read a chapter of the Bible. The lord will help you to sleep."

*whaaaat?!*

"I find that pills aren't what my patients need. You need to get right with the Lord and He will heal your problems!"

I almost exploded! Keeping a tight curb rein on my anger, I replied in as icy a voice as I could muster, "Doctor, I did not come to you for spiritual advice. I came for a medical opinion. I will NOT tolerate being preached at by someone in the wrong profession for it. If you can not give me advice pertinant to my presenting complaint, I shall go elsewhere and spare you the burden of treating a heathen!"

Yes, it IS possible to exert commanding presence in a silly paper backless gown. He clammed up and continued with the exam. He prescribed nothing and I never returned to him. I *did* file a comment with the state's medical board, but not a complaint. Turned out the idiot had five or six malpractise suits against him and was on the verge of losing his license.

309

[wildeyed]

65. Are you sure that

you didn't go see Dr. W. David Hager, Bush appointee and member of the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee?

Hager is the author of "As Jesus Cared for Women: Restoring Women Then and Now." The book blends biblical accounts of Christ healing Women with case studies from Hager's practice.

In the book Dr. Hager wrote with his wife, entitled "Stress and the Woman's Body," he suggests that women who suffer from premenstrual syndrome should seek help from reading the bible and praying.

[Mr_Spock]

133. Very nice, I could feel the emotion in what you said to that douche bag

doctor of yours. At this point in time, I'm a ticking time bomb, I feel VERY sorry for the Puke that lites my fuse. These self-righteous fools are gonna get some of the "God's medicine" that they so desperately deserve.

[LSU_Subversive]

59. Are you still an intern? Have you ever heard of ethics?

If so, you obviously haven't been paying attention and should consider enrolling in an ethics class or doing some research of your own. I completely understand the urge to go off on such patients. I deal with the same issue myself all the time with patients (not to mention colleagues, supervisors, etc). However, we have a responsibility to avoid political arguments with our patients. As a health-care provider you are in a position of power and have abused that power by becoming verbally aggressive. It doesn't matter if he brought the subject up. You had no right to say the things you did.

In your personal life, however, by all means let it all out. Seriously, it's damn time we step up and stop taking so much shit from the repukes out there. And I do feel that, at this point, for anybody to vote/think repuke is a major character flaw. My patients, however, won't ever have a clue I feel that way, unless they see my car sticker!

I do acknowledge that there are exceptions to my above statements. For example, some political discussions with patients may be appropriate at times (e.g., pharmaceutical regs, Medicaid, etc.). But Cheney's tantrum on the Senate floor? I don't think so. :think:

[PCIntern]

60. Those of us who work in so-called healthcare...

shouldn't be so cocksure that our interpretation of what you term 'ethics' are the only guidelines for practice.

First of all, is it 'ethical' to allow a someone to steal an election and then quietly acknowledge their right to do so, while millions ae oppressed by his rule? To have seen the voting and civil rights of at least tens of thousands of people denied in order that we get...THIS?

You talk 'ethics' - what do you say to a man who wilfully and deliberately witholds attention, medical and emotional, from a sick child because 'it' (as he refers to the boy) wasn't in his master plan for success? Do you sit there and politely acknowledge his right to do so or do you sit down with him and give him a piece of your mind, speaking angrily and frankly? Sometimes 'politesse' has to go out the window and we deal with harsh realities by being harsh. My commitment in this case was to that child, not to the sociability of the age.

It was the Dems sociability and fear of being called pushy and obnoxious that allowed the coup to take place in Florida. As Michael Moore said in 9/11, the Dem leadership acted as if they were waiting for their collective phone to ring (paraphrased).

You want to be polite and 'ethical' go right ahead.

Now to your text: you state that we have a responsibility to avoid political arguments - I do - I didn't start it, he was clearly baiting me. If you really are a 'medical professional' then you know how that works. IF someone wants to engage, then by all means, I'm willing. Of course, I would never start the process - but the few Repubs who want to have a fight, well I'm no Conscientious Objector. Further, you then say that it is time to stop taking shit. Well my friend, some of us have drawn a line in the sand, and with me, you can't walk into my practice, my office, my place of business, the repository of my whole existence as a professional and pick a fight and expect to get aaway with it because of restraints theoretically imposed by passively dependent people who are afraid of their own shadow.

One more thing: I have practiced for 27 years as I've said on at least one occasion. I am, by Philadelphia standards, extremely well-known and respected within and without the community,and I arrived at this plateau, as it were, by saying exactly what's on my mind when provoked. That doesn't mean I'm hostile, I'm simply chameleon-like. You come in nice, I'm real nice - you come in nasty, I'm real nasty. You apologize, I apologize. Consistency of behavior AND A BACKBONE will get you through anything.

P.S. I have studied the Pirke Avot (Sayings of the Fathers) for decades. My credentials are significant in that respect as well, lessons and suggestions for schooling of my mind are not required, thank you.

[Speed8098]

63. Wanna move to Long Island?

We could use a good sawbones that's not afraid of the reich wingers.

I applaud your reaction.

Keep on truckin

:yourock:

[LSU_Subversive]

93. Maybe you should have read my post a little more carefully

As I said before, I have no grief with discussing potentially inflammatory topics with my patients when they are relevant to the patient's health-care. This issue was not relevant to his treatment. Furthermore, would I use verbally abusive language when doing so? No. Not while I'm treating them. You can state your opinion, while at the same time maintaining professionalism. But from what you said in your post it doesn't sound like that's what you did. In fact, I think I remember reading that you went so far as to leave through a different door and to continue to berate your patient as he was trying to leave (escape?). In your personal life, go ahead and let it all out any way you chose.

Do you understand the distinction that I'm outlining? It's called nuance. And let me say this once more. I, too, am finished being pushed around by right-wing bullies but I will not become a bully, myself, when treating my patients. Personal life fine. But in the context of a health-care provider, no.

I understand that he came into your office ranting about Cheney's FU on the Senate floor. You may take that as an invitation to verbally abuse him as much as you please and that's your choice. But ethically, that is wrong. Furthermore, while there isn't an explicit guideline against engaging in profanity-laden arguments with your patients that does not give you an open invitation to do so. In my opinion to engage in that behavior is to be no worse than B. O'Reilly or others of his ilk. And, once again, let me emphasize the main gist of my point. Get pissed off, be a bully if you choose, cuss the fuck out of the obnoxious rednecks as they cut you off with their * bumper stickers. But use your common sense and sense of ethics (if you have any) and refrain from such behavior when it is not relevant to your patient care. Get it yet?

[wildeyed]

70. I dunno, I am not a medical god,

but it seems to me that if a client brings it up first, it is fair game.

I own a small business and have many employees. I do not consider politics when hiring or promoting and, for a while, I even had a women working p/t who volunteered in one of those deceptive anti-abortion clinic. I never discussed it with her. Her private time, her personal business plus, as the boss, bringing it up would be unfair 'cause I have the power. But if she had brought the subject up first, I would have been within my rights to defend my opinions.

My current babysitter is repub. She NEEDS this job. To hammer her with my opinions would be abusive. But when she brings up politics, I tell her what I think.

[Hoping4Change]

112. slef deleted

[Piperay]

61. TERRIFIC!

I love it! :yourock:

The RW freepers always count on the civility of Liberals when they go off on them and expect that Liberals will remain polite while they rant on and on. It's our civility that allows them to misbehave, if we go after them everytime they are rude and nasty maybe they will learn they better not dish it out because they are going to have to take it too. I'm fed up with bullies. :mad:

[CaTeacher]

64. I'm glad that you feel better. I support your right to free

speech and always love to see a freeper type get told off.

However, since you are a "professional" and this was done while you were working--it definitely was extremely unprofessional. I would not frequent you as a doctor, and if I ran a clinic I would not hire you.

There are sometimes consequences of getting a reputation for being unprofessional.

[PCIntern]

66. Fine...

believe me, I'm not soliciting your 'business' here. Funny thing is, you'd like me - I can tell. And you'd never know about the other guy unless I told you, which I wouldn't, and you'd be surprised what your 'professionals' are doing behind your back. If you knew 10% of what goes on, you wouldn't have anyone to see.

It's like eating in restaurants - don't look in the kitchen and you'll enjoy your meal.

And I don't "feel better". I'll "feel better" when this crowd leaves for Crawford, TX.

and one more thing: a "professional" is someone who
a. does something for money and
b. does something to the best of his or her ability even when he or she doesn't feel well, doesn't want to be at work that day, or some other mitigating issue. We owe it to our 'professions' to act this way. If you think for one minute that this fellow would receive less than the best I have to offer, you are sadly mistaken. First, I don't practice that way and second, I wouldn't dare give him the ammunition to say that my clinical skills were lacking, although he might not like my politics.

As a patient, if you have never been a staff member or 'professional' (synonymous in my book, but that's for another day) you have absolutely no idea what occurs 'below decks' in a professional office - if you think you do, then you are seriously deluding yourself. People are liked and disliked for the most interesting of reasons - I have far left-wingers whom I cannot stand personally and far right-wingers who are jsut delightful folks. I have people who take care of themselves wonderfully, following all the regimens prescribed and proscribed and are obnxious beyond human comprehension, and I have people who are just terrific who are on a collision course with death due to high-risk behaviors like smoking, obesity, and other disease-inducing behaviors.
People are quirky all over and there's lots of eye-rolling and head-shaking after many people leave who think they're just the 'cat's meow'. I suggest you read the book "House of God", written in the 70's - it's only gotten worse out there...

[CaTeacher]

68. Actually, I already do like you--and I would be tempted to

do the same--I can be a bit of a hot head too. So congrats on doing it.

But I do have to say it is unprofessional. Yes--people in the workplace do behave differently to your face--but there is a reason for that. It is easy to have trouble and hard to smooth it over--and most people want to protect their reputations, especially if they put a lot of work into getting where they are.

But--yeah--I think you are cool to speak up anyway!

[PCIntern]

72. Thanks...

Please understand - I am slow to temper, but a direct frontal assault is intolerable. I just won't stand for it.

If I walked into someone's house, no matter how humble, I was raised that you respect their home and their belongings and their person within their home. It is sacrosanct. People walk into my home and feel they can insult me, my intelligence, or my good-nature? No chance.

[doodleysquat]

98. I'm a Registered Nurse

Face it friend. You committed patient abuse.

[uhhuh]

100. I Am A Registered Democrat

Face it friend. You are committing Democrat abuse.

A nurse who loves to kill gophers?

Interesting....

[doodleysquat]

101. Nope

Just stating a fact. Politics has nothing to do with it.

[uhhuh]

102. A fact

Could you flesh out this fact a little bit?
I was teasing before about the above reply to make a point that you having the OPINION that the doctor abused his patient is about as abusive as what he did. Kinda silly, huh?

[doodleysquat]

104. My "opinion"

comes from the definition of verbal abuse as adopted, with minor variations, by most health care organizations and state practice boards. To wit: The willful teasing, threatening, belittling, or use of abusive language towards a client. I can supply you with the relevant Standard from the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Hospitals Organization (JCAHO) if you desire codification. Moreover, it can be defined subjectively by the client as in "if you feel you were abused, you were abused". From the description of the event the client was obviously upset and angry when he finished the visit and the practitioner, knowing this, continued the tirade even after the client had left the office. Now, you can call that an "opinion" if you like, but it's one that comes from my 25 years of dealing with patients in a clinical setting and would, I believe, be shared by most review boards, ethics committees, etc.

[Misunderestimator]

115. B effing S

[Cannikin]

121. Some people take themselves WAY too seriously.

Oh yeah, doodleysquat, welcome to DU!
:toast:

[Puglover]

113. Deleted..why bother?

[Misinformed01]

74. You sound just like my Doctor!

I adore him, and will drive 100 miles to see him before I go to a different Doc-

Steph

On edit: I cannot believe the whiner on here that "would file a complaint against you."

I hope he read my response, so he can not get mad at the comments that are going to be directed against John Edwards.

[Suzi Creamcheese]

75. Sounds like a lawyer's dream

I hope that he doesn't have a reaction to any of the medicine you prescribed or a bad outcome of any sort. This is an out of court let 'em beg for mercy plaintiff lawyer's dream.

"I didn't quite catch that Doctor. You said what? I see. And this was to your patient? Are you certain?"

[Misinformed01]

77. Sounds like too many DUers have been watching "Nightcourt"

to me.

Medical Malpractice is not caused by a spirited political discussion initiated by the patient. The poster has been practicing medicine for 27 years (I think that was the number...it's a long thread, I am not going to go look.) and has known this man for years.

I think I would trust him to know how to practice medicine and not get sued by whiners that can't discuss Cheney without getting mad.

Stephanie

[Suzi Creamcheese]

81. After 27 years of practice he is still an intern?

That's a good one.
Do you have any idea at all about what you are talking about?

[Misinformed01]

84. Here's a quote from this thread

"I can't tell you how many times I've had to go at it with some moron (and moran) who thought that little problem he, his wife, or his kid was having was 'no big deal'. If you don't get straight down with these people, they walk - you get their attention quickly and don't let go. I've been doing this 27 years and people listen when you get mad...to quote the great Asimov (loosely): It pays to be obvious, especially when you have the reputation for subtlety."

That's from about halfway up, in the post that has "Baltimore" in the title.

[Misunderestimator]

85. You might just be assuming too much from a user name...

Do you have any idea at all what you are talking about? :shrug:

[Misinformed01]

86. Well, I understand the confusion

This poor woman has probably been making Cream Cheese so long that she is just tired.

I wonder if Suzi is in Philadelphia, home of that great cream cheese?

[Misunderestimator]

87. LMAO

You are such a kick! :loveya:

[Misinformed01]

88. I doubt MissPhilly thinks so

Love you too! :)

[Suzi Creamcheese]

92. That's Miss Creamcheese to you

And I am too laughing!
:-)

[Bridget Burke]

89. PCintern is his username here....

He says in this thread that he's practiced about 27 years. So he really isn't an "intern". And he may not be totally "PC", either. Guess what, my name really isn't "Bridget".

PCintern sounds like a pretty good doctor who speaks up when it's called for. There are times when M.D.'s need to convey fairly important messages to their patients; being unafraid of telling the truth is a good reputation to have.

[Suzi Creamcheese]

91. It's still a lawyer's dream

I wish him or her luck. Of course if your point is that nothing can be proven true from internet posters, then maybe he isn't a doctor in the first place. And maybe I don't actually make Cream Cheese in Philly :-)

[Bridget Burke]

105. No, my point is NOT that nothing can be proven true from internet posters.

I quite believe PCintern's story. However, you pointed out that he didn't sound like an intern; he isn't one.

You may be cheesy but I'd rather not go there.

[calimary]

106. "Intern" could also be shorthand for "internist." Like my father-in-law,

the INTERNAL MEDICINE SPECIALIST, was for more than, oh, maybe, uh, four decades.

I'm with the "taste of their own medicine" crowd. This lummox came into the doctor's office spoiling for a fight (gee, reminds me of some spoiled brat currently squatting in Al Gore's house... george somebody...) and figured he could just spew and get away with it (gee, reminds me of some snarling bastard who's got his hand up the back of some spoiled brat currently squatting in Al Gore's house... george somebody...).

I have found that this crap will continue until and unless it is checked.

I have found that the crap emails from the knuckle-dragger contingent will continue until and unless they are checked.

I have found that the mindless rants of people who know little more than to parrot what Pox "news" tells them will continue until and unless they are checked.

I have found that the empty-headed claptrap coming from people who obviously get their talking points from limbaugh because he's thoughtfully told them they can rely on him to do their thinking for them will continue until and unless it is checked.

I have found that the bullying of people, by bullies, will continue until and unless it is checked.

The ONLY - REPEAT - ONLY way to beat a bully is to HIT BACK. AND HIT BACK HARD.

NEVER - REPEAT - NEVER let the bully, OR the liar, OR the uninformed rant-meister, get the last word.

[Hoping4Change]

116. *************AMEN SISTER********************************************

[Hoping4Change]

114. Are familiar at all with irony? PCIntern refers not to his status

as doctor but his lack of politicical correctness. So I say to you,
do you have any idea at all about what you are talking about?

[Misunderestimator]

78. EXCELLENT! I never hesitate to throw shit in their faces...

The other night I was out at dinner with my ex, when her sister started bragging about meeting Bush a couple of weeks ago at MacDill AFB and shaking his hand. I said, "Well, good for you... I got to shake the hand of our NEXT president." She went on to describe how they made sure that not just anyone got close to Bush, that there was a kind of receiving line (like that made her special)... unlike my experience at the Kerry rally where EVERYONE who could get close enough could reach out to him.

I said "Well, sure... Bush rarely goes anywhere except military bases so that he can avoid all the protests." My ex kicked me under the table and said "Why do you always have to do that?" To which I replied "You can't tell me what to do anymore... I'll say what I want." What a freeing thing that was.

[PCIntern]

80. Now you know why you're divorced...

sisters-in-law like that you don't need. Bravo.

The thing is, you're absolutely right - Bush never goes anywhere without a hand-picked audience. Look at the 'inauguration', they're not going to risk that egging again...

[Misunderestimator]

83. I was there at his inauguration...

And there were tens of thousands of us blocked by police in riot gear. I'm surprised ANYONE got close enough to egg the bastard. I managed to get through alleys and around the blockades just as his car was speeding by at the end of the procession.

[Hoping4Change]

118. woohoo here's to you for rocking the boat! Let every Dem get

into their own SWIFTBOAT and charge into the fray!

[Misinformed01]

90. For all of you "I would sue, or file a complaint" people on this thread:

When you hear the idiots on every TV, and every radio station in the US yelling about "trial lawyers," you can now go back and re-read your posts and quit asking yourselves "why."

If you people are that thin skinned that you would consider yourselves injured permanently from hearing the word "fuck" in a doctor's office then I might suggest asking the aforementioned Dr for a referral...to a good shrink. I bet he knows one. Might wanna pick up some valium too...grown up land and politics can get brutal.

Stephanie

[Suzi Creamcheese]

95. Oh dear

I wasn't aware that 'permanently injured' was required to file an action. I appreciate your sharing how grown ups view the court system.

Would you agree that if the good doctor were sued for malpractice due to other factors, his actions would make his case a teeny weeny bit more difficult to defend before a jury? Or would that be thin skinned of me to ask?

[roguevalley]

96. I was a public employee for 27 years. Because of it I could not

say "FUCK YOU!" to the idiot parade that passed through my doors. I had to 'be professional'. That said, this man is in private practice. If he wants to contend with a dimwit by saying his mind and using their idiot rhetoric against them, BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It isn't unprofessional in my mind. He's merely insinuating himself
in the level of discourse the idiot was using. That was collegial, kind and down right inviting to strangers who want to 'talk'. IF that ninny wants to talk, then let him engage his brain. If he doesn't want to 'talk' with PC, then get another doctor.

Sue a private practitioner because he had a conversation with a dimwit? Please. Grounds, my darlings. Telling someone your mind in a conversation they brought up is conversation, not litigation.

Bravo, PC. Bravo.

[uhhuh]

97. Not Thin Skinned, But Short Sighted

If this information were to be brought up in a malpractice case, it could easily be argued by the defense that the plaintiff was using this case as retaliation for the doctor's views, and that his complaint may be motivated not by injury, but by his hurt feelings.

He would have to able to demonstrate that the doctor caused harm to him. This information would be irrelevant if he is given appropriate care. It would mean nothing.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

103. Requirements for malpractice:

1. Patient suffered an injury
2. There was a deviation from "standard of care"
3. It can be demonstrated that 2 caused 1

No injury to this patient except perhaps the psychic injury of being shown what an ass they were.

There might be grounds for a complaint to the state med board about unprofessional behavior, the way I see it.

[underseasurveyor]

99. ha ha............Perfect.

Your response that is. ;-) Right on :toast:

[Q]

107. I applaud your...honesty..

- It would be nice to know a doctor who speaks his mind and doesn't feel the need to sacrifice his principles in order to get along with the 'master race'.

- Most Docs I know are too busy running an assembly line business...with no time to actually TALK with their patients. Many others have stopped dispensing pain meds for chronic pain because Bush's* DEA is constantly on their backs...intimidating and accusing them of being 'drug pushers'.

- But despite all the pressure to 'conform' to the status quo...you reached out beyond your expected role of robotic physician and dispenser of pills. Good for you...and your patients.

[porphyrian]

108. If I weren't already married, I'd marry you now.

Deflating bullies is so rewarding...

[porkrind]

109. Holy Shite! You Rule!

I wish you were my Doctor. :)

[Robin Hood]

117. I'm a psyche tech CNA. Got an opening?

I want to work with feisty liberals. I work for a State hospital and am surrounded by self loathing Bush bots. Anti-government retards that make their moaney off tax dollars.

Who says psych techs have to be smart? i do, that's who.

[redqueen]

119. Doc, you ROCK!

And here's another thread that brings out all the corn-cob-up-the-ass board members.

:eyes:

[Misunderestimator]

120. There seem to be a lot of such cockroach scattering threads lately.

A perfectly good subject torn to shreds by repressed boneheads. :eyes:

[Puglover]

122. I agree totally Misunderestimator

Makes me cheneying CRAZY!
:mad:

[LoZoccolo]

129. Nah, repressed would be withholding my opinion.

And you shouldn't have called us boneheads.

:hi: :nuke:

[Misunderestimator]

131. Nah, repressed would be withholding your integrity.

:hi:

[LoZoccolo]

135. Being a shrill counterproductive spaz...

...is not an integral part of my philosophy.

[Misunderestimator]

137. I guess that was not a personal attack, but a general observation, huh?

:eyes:

[redqueen]

138. LMAO!

Alert! Alert!

:nopity:

[LoZoccolo]

139. Right.

That's because I say nothing about a corn cob up the ass.

[Misunderestimator]

140. Then I guess...

...a shrill counterproductive spaz with a corn cob up its ass wouldn't be personal either?

[LoZoccolo]

143. That would.

My comment was on-topic. Your cockroaches comment was basically an off-topic way of trying to intimidate people that have a problem with someone you are paying for a service to chase you back to the elevator or whatever to change not much of anything and get a bunch of cheers on DU.

[Misunderestimator]

144. Uh huh.... seeya around.

:eyes:

[LoZoccolo]

146. Isn't it repressed for the doc not to pick up a scalpel and stab the guy?

Just saying "fuck" seems like bonehead cockroach corncob up the ass tactics compared to that.

[redqueen]

151. See, you're just being silly.

Responding in a conversational way to a patient is in no way, shape, or form similar to stabbing someone.

You *do* get that, don't you?

:crazy:

[LoZoccolo]

154. Do you want to see the PNAC BushCo dominionist corporatists take over...

...or do you not?

[redqueen]

157. Um, no

That would be part of the reason I would applaud ANYONE, such as the Good Doctor here, in educating Americans at ANY and EVERY opportunity.

[LoZoccolo]

159. Withholding integrity to avoid going to jail for stabbing.

That's the kind of thing that happens, when you refuse to educate Americans at any and every opportunity and have a corn cob up your ass.

[redqueen]

141. OMFG

:wow:

[LoZoccolo]

128. Last I heard, this was a "discussion board".

Also last I heard, it's against the rules to make a personal attack a la corn cob up the ass.

:hi: :nuke:

[redqueen]

132. Well, since I didn't personally refer to anyone, it's not 'personal'

Honestly...

[Misunderestimator]

134. I didn't see any personal attacks...

I saw some general observations.

[BiggJawn]

124. Are you accepting new patients?

I wanna doctor like YOU!

How are you on pushy drug salesmen trying to get you to write a zillion scripts for their latest shit pill?

[mondo joe]

126. Inappropriate, and a poor use of appointment time.

It's perfectly easy and appropriate to say "I disagree with you and this isn't the time or place to discuss it."

[Misunderestimator]

130. They really ARE coming out of the woodwork.

Nothing will EVER make me think it is not an appropriate time to inform someone that our country needs to be saved. F*ck being APPROPRIATE.

[redqueen]

136. Every time I read a comment like this

I want to ask how in the Cheney these people think the right wing has been so successful in taking over this country?!

[mondo joe]

142. I'm not willing to hold a double standard.

What was described here is unacceptable for a physician in the context of a patient visit.

If the physician were a freeper behaving similarly with a more liberal patient it would also be unacceptable.

I'm not willing to hold a doublle standard.

[redqueen]

145. If you bring up politics, expect to hear someone' s opinion about it

It's still a free country, and thin-skinned people aside, you can't sue for having your feelers hurt.

If you don't want to hear it, don't bring it up - and if it bothers you so dang much, then you can always find a new doctor.

I'm amazed so many are so willing to rant about what they find 'unacceptable', even if it's perfectly reasonable.

:wtf:

[LoZoccolo]

148. Exactly.

Which is why you shouldn't be surprised when the corncob contingent posts replies (or as you would say, ruins the thread).

[redqueen]

150. As *I* would say?

:eyes:

Are you just doing this for fun?

[LoZoccolo]

153. Sorry, got you mixed up with whoever else that other person is.

But you have to expect those things when you're in a "tag team" for effect.

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Misunderestimator]

156. Then I guess you and Mondo Joe are the other side of the tag team?

:shrug: Yeah... effect.

signed - That other person :eyes:

[mondo joe]

152. A matter of physician's responsibility, not being thin-skinned

Physicians and patients do not function on a level playing field. There is a significant power imbalance. That's one reaon there are so many codes governing relationships between patients and physicians.

For example: If a patient is attracted to a physician and makes a sexual overture, the physician is obliged to NOT act on it, even ig he or she is also attracted.

If a patient behaves inappropriately - as this one did - the physician has recourse to resolve the situation through a range of actions. But this wasn't one of them.

By many state legal standards, what was described here would constitute abuse of a patient.

[redqueen]

158. So you think the patient 'acted inappropriately'?

:wtf:

Where the Cheney did that come from?

States set legal standards huh... care to cite one which would classify this as abuse?

[mondo joe]

160. Yes, I do.

Yes, I do think the patient acted inappropriately.

I work in a community healh center that serves a wide range of people, including a disproportionately high number of people who for one reason or another behave inappropriately. But in no case would it be an acceptable response to get into an argument and yell atthe patient.

With regard to what would classify this as abuse, here's an excerpt from the Pennsylviania State Code:

§ 14.5. Definition of abuse.
(a) An abusive act is an act or omission which may cause or causes actual physical or emotional harm or injury to a patient/resident, or an act which willfully deprives a patient/resident of his rights as defined by the Department. An act of abuse directed against a patient/resident is prohibited and is cause for disciplinary action including dismissal, and possible criminal prosecution.

(b) Questions may arise as to what actions constitute abuse of a patient/resident. An action which may cause or causes actual physical or emotional harm or injury, which is not caused by simple negligence, constitutes abuse. An action such as striking or kicking a patient/resident, restraining a patient/resident improperly or without authorization, and other actions which can be seen as causing physical pain to a patient/resident are strictly forbidden. An act such as teasing, humiliating, degrading or intentionally ignoring a patient/resident, may constitute abuse and will be dealt with no less severely than acts causing physical injury.

(c) Nonaction which results in emotional/physical injury is viewed in the same manner as that caused by improper or excessive action. Actions in which employes engage with patients/residents shall have as their legitimate goal, the healthful, proper and humane care and treatment of the patient/resident.

Source: http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/055/chapter14/s14.5.html

[Mr_Spock]

161. Both you and the person above are right - the Cheney with these

right-wing nuts who are so sure they are right, they bring up there points in public arena's and expect people to agree with them - NOT. Oh, and a little anger related to being tired of THEIR tirades in entirely acceptable to me.

Devils advocates - go fuck yourself. Some things are more important than civil discourse.

These right-wing fucks will never know how many of us disagree with them UNLESS WE TELL THEM. STOP being polite and ignore these grouchy people who don't understand that these people are not playing fair, SO WHY SHOULD WE!!!

[Moderator]

162. locking

This long, spirited discussion seems to be getting nowhere at this point.
Locking.

Thanks for your consideration.
DU Mod