just saw 9/11 for first time. It really bugged me that people applauded

[maggrwaggr]

I know that shouldn't bother me. The place was packed, people are grateful that SOMEBODY made this movie.

What got to me ....

The movie ends, the credits roll, everybody applauds and gets up to leave .....

It's like they just watched ..... a movie.

I didn't see a movie. I saw a call to action.

I wanted to get up in front of the theater and say to everybody "so what are we gonna do about this??"

What ARE we gonna do about this?

Simply vote the guy out of power and assume that will make everything better?

Simply hope that everybody sees the movie, even though 2/3 of Republicans say they don't want to see it, and only something like 3% of them are?

Simply hope that the corporate media will see the light one day and magically change and start reporting the truth?

Why are we letting Bush and his cronies remain free men?

This is America, and supposedly it's governed by we, the people. Why are we letting these men keep their jobs, keep their freedom, and keep committing their crimes?

I'm ranting here, and when I'm done, I'm gonna get on with my life, like everybody else. But I'm not happy about it.

WHO is going to be the cop in this situation? The UN? Some other country? God?

It's up to us. What are we gonna do about it?

[BeatleBoot]

1. You Just Did It

Keep doing it.

3 Months and a handful of days to go...

Don't quit.

[maggrwaggr]

2. until what?

I appreciate the positive message, I really do.

What's getting me is that Bush will get away with all of this. He'll get cushy jobs on some board of some company that made gobs of money from his crimes. And so will all the motherfuckers who are his cronies.

We'll gloss over all of it thinking that a new day has dawned, but it won't.

All these guys will still be as powerful as ever, working behind the scenes, working to derail everything that's good and decent about this country.

We need to get rid of these people. We need to let them know that they do not run this country, that WE DO.

We need to let them know that we're onto them and we're not going to let them get away with this shit any longer.

That's what I'm talking about. Bastille day was just a few days ago. You know?

[mdmc]

3. what else can we do , anyway.

I mean, I'm listening to the question w review http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wonk/mp3/AAR.nostamj.QuestionDubya.mp3
right now.
I guess just get out there and keep it up.
I'm going to see question w this wednesday.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maggrwaggr]

10. that's not what I'm talking about

I'm talking about holding individuals accountable.

I don't think the revolution in Russia turned out all that well.

[Pachamama]

16. Freepers lieben eine Revolution....Deswegen kommen Sie auf die DU

and love posting ridiculous statements like this...Typically have low posts and always advocating revolt...

We love Newbies who are freethinking but postings like that won't have you living on the DU very long...

I mean, what's with the "We can get rid of anyone that disagrees"? No, that's not the DU thinking - that's Neo-con thinking....

:think:

[Arianrhod]

22. Freepers lieben nicht eine Revolution.

Sie lieben den Macht.

But only if they have it.

BTW, it's highly appropriate to address them in their native tongue.

:)

[Pachamama]

26. Du bist richtig...es ist denn Macht...

:hi: hi Arianrhod! Glad you got the "witz" of why I used their native tongue...I think its always important to communicate in the manner that best addresses someone and most directly...

:)

[Arianrhod]

28. Danke schoen.

It does prick their ears up a bit, doesn't it?

:)

[CatWoman]

43. The Alert Button can be your friend.

[leesa]

42. This is not about disagreement. It is about crime and treason.

[Arianrhod]

20. What you mean "we", Kimosabe?

The people have never run this country. Originally--with but a few exceptions--only landed white males had any political power. Most of the people who are allowed to vote today didn't receive that privilege until the 20th Century. And the disenfranchisement in Florida in 2000 and 2002 was common practice throughout the South until just a couple of decades ago.

The pronouncement by the SCOTUS in the 19th Century that corporations are individuals all but sealed our destiny. Money runs the country; always has.

"Government by the people" is a nice catch-phrase, but it has never described the United States.

I wonder if it would even be possible to change that?

[Suzi Creamcheese]

35. It seems we have a choice between millionaires and billionaires

don't be so hard on yourself, that's the way things work everywhere

[Kanary]

4. Like every other change, it's a matter of changing hearts and minds

I'm not saying that to be cute...... I mean that sincerely. The reason this has happened is because of laziness and self-centeredness on the part of the population. That includes all of us DUers, too.

To *really* take action, it means changing all the reasons for the inaction.

Step one is starting with our ownselves.

I'm guessing here........ You say at the end of your rant you're getting on with your life, like everybody else. Maybe because you know you can't do it alone? Maybe that's at the core of this........ our damnable Rugged Individualism? Maybe, just maybe.... we need to develop a bit of community?

Kanary

[Arianrhod]

25. Personally, I believe that community is the answer.

That's how the Republicans regained power, by working at the low levels of government and building on their successes. But I fear we no longer have the chance to do what they did.

The country will stand or fall in the next couple of decades. We don't have the time to rebuild from the ground up. And I think that the people have pretty much dismissed the progressive agenda, anyway. They want their Game Boys and Members Only jackets and SUVs and Miller Time and the NFL. As long as consumer culture is their focus, it will not be possible to persuade them to seek something else.

I mean, Christianity has been telling them these things for two thousand years, and where has it gotten the Church?

[Kanary]

39. You're right, of course........

And some of the hatefulness right here on DU puts an exclamation point on your statements.

Kanary

[Arianrhod]

45. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the "neo"Con revolution even requires hate.

All it really needs is distraction, and we have that in droves.

[Sugarbleus]

5. I didn't applaud either. I didn't cry. I was furious.

I don't know how to answer your question; I can only tell you that I feel powerless to change but only a few minor things in this WEALTH absorbed society. It's all about Wealth and Power.

I can't tell you how many letters I've written to representatives and opponents and in DU on the subject. Just this evening here in DU, I got a reply to a concern of mine that dovetails into your subject somewhat. I was, in essence, talking about the 'have's and the have-nots'...about how I don't see much difference in the two parties etc etc.

The response was that (paraphrasing here)"the little people" don't vote enough to make a difference, that most voters don't much desire redistribution politics. Ooooookay then. Does that mean we just stay with the status quo? Do we let the super powerful and wealthy continue to push the agenda domestically AND worldwide then? Indeed, who IS going to police this twisted political system?...include those at the bottom with those in the middle and perhaps we can get something done.

I know there are blocks of voters from the lower middle class and under class who do their thing. I guess the rest of the voters just don't care--dems or repubs alike. I just don't know how to answer your question, but when I get replies like that from a place like this, it makes me shudder. It also makes me feel like whats the use. If no one cares about the struggles of those on the bottom, why should the have nots join in on toppling/changing the corruption at the top?!

[maggrwaggr]

8. I think the powers that be need a serious wake up call

These people get away with it because we LET them.

They're laughing in our faces.

That's what I'm getting at.

[Kanary]

9. the "havenots" are not of concern to most anymore at all, including DU

:hi:

You're completely right about that, and why so many of us are ready to throw in the towel.

It's not even possible to speak truthfully and honestly here, so....... one just retires, and decides what to do given that discouragement.

One day, when all the havenots are dead and the war is declared on the almost-haves, maybe there will be an awakening. But, I sadly suspect, not until then.

We've been successfully fractured.

Kanary

[Sugarbleus]

17. Or.............a serious crime wave is on the horizon

:hi:

I guess there can't be a "middle class" unless we have an under class....... That would mean the under class is a thing intentionally created? Maybe....now I'm starting to sound like a marxist. lol

But really...if those struggling on the fringes just to keep body and soul together are IGNORED, shoved to the side, glossed over...why should they want to cooperate or vote? If a middle class, with a conscience, wants to really defeat the crushing ruling class and corporate corruption, then they NEED to include their fellow citizens on the bottom when they lay out their political agendas. WOW, we'd make a HUGE voting block then. Stuff would change PDQ. People would be filled with hope, they would want to participate because to do so is in their own best interest.

Services are being cut like wild fire where I live and it's pure insanity. I could go on but you get the picture.

[Kanary]

18. Welll, I got soundly told here on DU that if the poor don't vote,

they don't deserve any representation.

How's that for traditional DEM compassion and concern?

That's why I think it's hopeless, and maybe the whole country needs to crash.

THEN maybe there'll be a chance for some consciousness-raising.

Kanary

[Sugarbleus]

19. OMG, someone really told you that???

Okay then....................WHERE'S THE REPRESENTATION? I've been voting all my life. I'm 55. I've seen a few things go for the better then get over turned by the next government...*sigh* In anycase, I've never seen anything really get settled, really stick once and for all. (social security has held but not without constant threats)

Even in State government things/laws change faster than a blink of the eye...and I rarely ever get to vote on them. The representatives just "change" the laws. We do get some propositions to vote on locally, mostly it's done at the capitol without the public's input. Geeez

[Kanary]

40. Yes, I was dismissed in exactly that way.

Years ago, back when Dems were Dems and actually *CARED* about poor folk, of course they got out and voted.

We're no longer considered, and not part of the DEM agenda. I can't bring myself to judge those who gave up.

Maybe if we had more compassion and less judgement, we'd be doing better as a party, instead of scraping by.


Kanary

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. I'm betting that the person who told you that is a freeper....

If one person's comment causes you to think that "it's hopeless, and maybe the whole country needs to crash", then maybe you're the one that needs an attitude adjustment.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arianrhod]

27. But the middle class doesn't want to defeat the wealthy class.

They want to be them. They still live with sugar-plum fantasies of instant riches propelling them into the upper class. As long as consumerism remains both their dream and the basis of their everyday lives, there will be no change in the country's agenda.

[Sugarbleus]

29. Exactly...

*not that there's anything wrong with wanting to be comfortable*...but,lol, DREAM ON.........

Consume, consume, consume, buy, buy, buy, never enough,never enough...a fog of "stuff"...need more money, work harder and we'll get there.........geeez talk about an addiction! Sugar plum fantasies indeed. Well said.

[Arianrhod]

31. Oh, I'm all for people bettering their lives, of course.

I'm just wondering whether owning that Sony Playstation really does better my life.

Too bad the marketing guys can't see the profit in pushing affordable housing, health care, and financial security for everybody. Instead they occupy our minds with meaningless drivel designed only to keep themselves in power.

[Sugarbleus]

48. BINGO Again!!

I was watching others during the F-9/11 film...the younger ones. They were happy, as they should be, they were playing with some of the new gadgets that are available for sale: Cell phones that take pictures.

I must admit it's a novel idea but is it necessary? How many different cereals do we need on the store shelves? How long should one computer's life be? Look at what we throw away because it's overnight become "outdated".

Some of the things that are made aren't even made well. Items sold in better days were solid state--they'd last a very long time. Today, you buy a new car and right away something goes wrong with it, something falls off of it. I just bought a new microwave...not a convection oven...I don't need a convection oven(though they try to push "new products and services" on us all the time). The microwave lasted 10 days........TEN. It went out. They won't take it back. Just sell, sell, sell. Forget about the customer...just rake in those bucks.

I need some special medical attention as does my kid....'sorry, your "state" insurance doesn't cover that anymore'........???

It makes my head spin.

[Arianrhod]

51. I'm sorry to hear about your medical situation.

My third son was born on MediCal (California state insurance) because the company I worked for at the time wouldn't pay for it. I was fortunate; the bill came to well over $3000, and I was only making $300 a week. Even so, it took me over a year to pay off the part of it I owed.

Now der Groepenfuerher is trying to shut down the system altogether. (Not like we didn't warn people, eh?)

The callous disregard people have for each other just boggles my mind.

[Paragon]

6. C'mon.

It IS a movie, after all -- did you expect a riot to break out and the Revolution to start then and there?

It certainly provokes thought and discussion afterward, which you were not privy to. To get Americans to actually think about what's going on in the world -- that's plenty.

[maggrwaggr]

12. I know I'm being unreasonable

:)

And part way through the movie I thought "that's it, I'm getting out of this country, it's hopeless".

After the movie I walked out onto the 3rd street promenade here in Santa Monica and there was beautiful sunshine and a whole ton of interesting people walking around and a band playing some (surprisingly) good music and a guy with a table covered in all kinds of anti-war bumper stickers ........

And I thought of my kids and wife at home and I thought "I do love this country".

I think most people in America are optimists and that's part of the problem. We don't think it can happen here. We think the system isn't THAT broken, but IT IS.

This is where Europe is way ahead of us. They've SEEN the fascists take over, they've had utter destruction and massive deaths, they KNOW what can happen if you aren't careful!

They know, and we don't. We're an adolescent nation compared to them, a 600 pound baby with a big gun.

The American people are for the most part great, but I really think they need WAY more than this to rub their noses in.

If everybody saw this movie, I think that would be a good start.

[Arianrhod]

30. You can see those things in any large city in the world.

Take an idyllic stroll down the Hauptstrasse in Heidelberg some summer afternoon, with the cool breezes blowing softly down the Neckar; or soak in the electric, neon-lit atmosphere of a Leicester Square evening in London. Watch the fireworks light up the sky behind the Eiffel Tower on New Year's Eve. You'd love it in those places, too.

I think one of the reasons we're in our current situation is that people have forgotten what is important about our country to love: The concept--and practice--that every man, woman and child, without exception, without the need to struggle, without persecution or discrimination, has the right to live a life of his/her own choosing, to worship in whatever way seems right to him/her, to go about his/her daily business without some government goon looking over his/her shoulder. Without those things, none of the other stuff is possible.

But more than that, we have become ingrown. We are xenophobic to the extreme, full of false pride about what is essentially an accident of birth: That we are Americans. We have for far too long wallowed in that chimpanzee dominance hierarchy, that social isolation that tells us that "being American" is somehow better than being anything else in the world--even as our crime rate soars to global heights, our prison population exceeds that of even the most oppressive third-world nation, and the "have-nots" are becoming so numerous that soon the majority of us will be living at the level of some of those third-world nations. Meanwhile, the rich and pampered continue to live lives of luxury and to cram down our throats the utterly ludicrous notion that having things is more important than caring about our neighbor.

The Republicans are counting on this.

[maggrwaggr]

46. nicely put

the phrases "proud to be an American" and "God Bless America" really personify this and they both bug the hell out of me.

The only people who can say "proud to be an American" are those who have actually worked to BECOME an American.

In other words, immigrants.

The rest of us just sorta "lucked" into it.

If you can call that luck.

[Arianrhod]

52. Yes, the immigrants have made the conscious choice,

while all we did was... well, what exactly did we do, anyway?
:)

I've never understood those phrases either. The same goes for any nationality or ethnicity; if we didn't choose it, didn't work for it, then how can we take credit for it? Because that's what pride is: Taking credit for what you have done.

We are odd creatures.

[hlthe2b]

11. Yes, a call to action, but also a tremendous catharsis...

Applauding at the relief of finally seeing some truth come out, is a very natural thing, I think.... Remember many are not reading, breathing, talking these issues day in and day out as we are. So, for them seeing what they've come to believe put forth so clearly is a tremendous relief.

But, when I saw it the first time (the day after release), my audience left in stunned silence, although they did react to many things during the film (e.g., soldier's call for Rumsfeld's resignation, AsssKKKROFT's ludicrous singing, etc).

[maggrwaggr]

14. "my audience left in stunned silence"

Well that's good. I'm glad you told me that. I think that's what I would expect.

I suppose by now most people have already heard the jist of it, so the applause is more of a normal response.

Also I live in Santa Monica, which is probably one of the most Democratic enclaves anywhere.

[mimzie]

21. Fahrenheit 911

When I saw it, the theatre was so hushed you could hear the
proverbial pin drop. But at the end there was lengthy,
exuberant applause. (I hear the applause thing happens
wherever it's shown). It was, for my part, the reaction to the
realization that someone had finally verbalized and
pictorialized all the things I knew and wanted the rest of
America to know. A great sense of relief shared by all the
clappers. Of course, kids under 18 (I think it's 18) were not
allowed in, because seeing the real truth about the
"war" might cause them to avoid the recruiters like
the plague, but the stated reason for not allowing them to see
it was "violence and profanity". Hmmm, better not
listen to any speeches by the Vice President, then.

There is hope for a groundswell coming out of all this: The
site founded by Ramsey Clark called Vote to Impeach is going
to run consecutive ads in the NY Times starting in a few days
calling for impeachment on grounds of war crimes. They are
asking for contributions to keep the ads running.

We can support VoteToImpeach.org -- that's what WE can do.    
         

[sadiesworld]

37. Thanks for the info on the Vote to Impeach ads.

Welcome to DU :hi:

[newyawker99]

41. Hi mimzie!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[gristy]

49. Ramsey Clark

Instant credibility. He gave a great speach at the march in DC last fall.

[NMDemDist2]

50. welcome to DU mimzie

:hi:

[kat21]

13. I loved the applause -

Rarely do I attend a movie where people show appreciation like that for the hard work that went into the film. Anyone seeing the movie that was on the fence or even on the right needed to see how much support Moore has for his film. Of course that type of feedback was more important when the movie first hit the theaters. Trust me, everyone was still shell-shocked. If while waiting in line you noticed the audience from the previous exit the theater, you would notice that they were all very moved by the film. I've been tabling outside a theater showing the movie and people are pissed. The come over to our table and they tell us they are pissed, buy Kerry T-Shirts, bumper stickers, etc., sign up to volunteer and, if necessary, register to vote.

[maggrwaggr]

15. that's very cool. You have my gratitude for doing that

I can't think of a better place to register voters than outside of that movie.

[kat21]

47. Thanks maggrwaggr -

However, I am only a small part of a very large effort in the Los Angeles area. The woman who got me involved does it 7 days a week. Now that's impressive!

[Octafish]

23. "What are we gonna do about it?"

You know what we gotta do about it. Get the Truth out from sea-to-shining-sea. Once people know what the BFEE are about they'll be just as pissed as we were when we came out of that movie.

We need universal awareness that Smirk's just like his Poppy: "We got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand.

[NEDem]

24. You've taken the first step

Now take your righteous anger to the streets, we need to stand and fight. Let everyone you know what you thought of the movie, if you know a repug that may be willing to see the movie, offer to buy their ticket, go volunteer for a candidate you like, don't just sit around waiting for these animals to be taken down, make it happen! Get out the vote in 2004!

[Swamp Rat]

32. Get out the vote! Geaux Kerry!

Welcome to DU :toast:

[radfringe]

33. about that applause....

since bush* was selected - the media, talking heads etc. have been non-stop with their bush-butt-kissing stories

since September 11 - it's been non-stop blather about how "great" a leader bush has been and anyone that disagrees is unpatriotic or a traitor

I think the applause is that FINALLY someone, who is able to reach the masses, came out and said what we are all feeling/thinking. It's confirmation of our views - that we are not wild-eyed and crazy lunatics.

It's like being all alone in a strange place and bumping into someone you know. It's reassurance, relief and acknowledgement.

When we saw it -- during there were murmurs in the audience, and spontaneous clapping. At the end - the audience rose and clapped.
Heading back to our car - we heard more than one person expressing their anger, and many saying '..glad someone finally said it - this i what I've been feeling alone, but have been too afraid to say anything...' or words to that effect.

[trumad]

34. I applauded my ass off and then went home and played my Playstation

and my fucking X-Box... Matter of fact I played Medal of Honor (great war game) for 3 hours straight! After that I went out and had a twenty dollar steak and a 20 dollar bottle of Kendall Jackson. After that I came home and made love to my wife on my 600 thread count sheets. (smooth as a baby's behind)

Viva la Revolution!

[LunaC]

44. You're a perfect candidate!

If you're frustrated and want to DO something, join "The Whispering Campaign" (link below). Who knows....you might be able to change a few votes come November!

Namaste!