How do we stop the American (fundie Christian) Taliban?

[mandyky]

Even if we did what they wanted about abortion and gays, I think they would still want more. For instance, on the abortion issue, I think they don't even want birth control, and I wouldn't put it past them to start trying to steal single peoples' kids. On the gay issue, even if we defined marraige the way they want, I think they would try to illegalize being gay again (sodomy laws, etc).

I am all for the freedom of religion, as long as the religious don't try to run my life, or anyone else's, by their code of morality.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. "How do we stop the American (fundie Christian) Taliban?"

Ask them to reread their bibles.

If they want to support marriage... they should ban divorce.

[morningglory]

11. I know the fundies, as they are close to home here in the South. They

have a high divorce rate because they get married right out of high school so they will have a sex partner. Then they wake up 5-10 years later and ask "What have I done?"

[Warpy]

16. Bad idea!

I tell them they're supporting the most unchristian president in the history of the country. I give them illustrations of his lying, his screwing the poor, his worshipful lavishing of more wealth onto the rich, his starting wars, his lack of care for the sick in favor of increasing drug company profits, and on and on. THEN I tell them to reread their bibles, starting with Matthew and Mark, beginning to end.

Most Christians want to think they're good people, even fundies who are working toward creating the apocalypse so they can git raptured. Reminding them what Christ stood for is reminding them that no matter whether their prophecies are valid or not, following Bush is not the way to follow Christ.

That sometimes gets them. Sometimes they're so full of Paul's nonsense that they're unreachable.

[LittleApple81]

20. Don't give them ideas. They already have states where doctors

and pharmacists can refuse to prescribe/sell contraceptives....

[Arianrhod]

25. Well, to paraphrase Augustine:

"Lord, help us to put an end to divorce. But not just yet!"

[Cobalt Violet]

2. We need a media that exposes all them.

They are such hypocrites and they seem to have no one exposing this to the American masses.

[landdaddy]

21. Pass this link

on to everyone in your contacts list. Bookmark it! Sign up for their news alerts! :evilgrin:
http://www.theocracywatch.org/index.html
:evilgrin:

[Blue Gardener]

26. Thank you landdaddy

I now have this site bookmarked...And welcome to DU!

[w13rd0]

3. I could quote Bush/Cheney/Rumsferatu...

..."The only way to 'take care of' these religious fundamentalists is to root them out and kill them." But that wouldn't be right...would it?

The willfully ignorant are entropies answer to physical and social evolution, a countermeasure of sorts. Perhaps I should just refrain from further comment.

[Don_G]

4. Catch Them Actively Supporting Dimbo's Re-Selection

And yank their tax-exempt status.

[MichiganVote]

68. Amen to that

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. History has shown

that fundamentalists are on a power trip to restrict people's behaviors more and more and more. The Puritans kicked out anyone who didn't go along with their religious oligarchy in Plymouth/Massachusettes Bay Colony. When the dissenters were all gone, they turned on each other, calling the less fortunate in their midst 'witches'. It was all a power trip of the ministers, mind you-and it could happen again.

I believe in freedom of religion-but also in seperation of church and state. IMHO, you can't have one without the other.

[leesa]

23. This is why their BS fantasy about 1000 years of peace after the Rapture

is so unbelieveable. These people are so filled with hate that they couldn't get along for more than 10 minutes. If they didn't have the Jews, Muslims, blacks, asians, hispanics, etc., etc., they would have to hate each other.

[yardwork]

38. Very good point. They are constantly splitting off from their churches.

Look how many brand-new fundamentalist churches, with new names, appear constantly. They can't get along with each other. They constantly disagree about doctrinal issuses, and they don't compromise, they just leave in a huff and start a new church.

On another message board I once asked what kind of religion the U.S. would have if John Ashcroft had his way and instituted a state-run religion. Would it be exactly the same as theirs?

No response. Crickets. Crickets.

[SemperEadem]

34. I agree with you..

whenever asked to clarify their stand, they always obfustcate or don't answer the question: "So, the US decides to recognize the Christian religion as the defacto faith of this country... which denomination is going to be the one that is adopted by the constitution? Southern Baptist? Episcopal? Lutheran? AME Methodist? Apostolic/Pentacostal? COGIC? Mormon? Catholicism?

What happens if someone doesn't want to abandon their own beliefs to adopt the state beliefs? Reinstitute heresy laws? What's the punishment--burning at the stake? An act of attainder?

See, they aren't thinking that far ahead---their thinking stops at "God wants the US to be a Christian nation". Either they have yet to consider the entire enterprise or they know and will lie to you about their intentions until they've moved enough legal roadblocks into place to begin implementing their ideas.

[Walt Starr]

6. There's only one way, end the two party system

Go to government by coalition and multiple parties. Anything short of that gives the American Talban way too much political clout.

[Blue Wally]

17. How do you propose to do that??

It requires people voting for third (fourth, fifth) parties. Each election, people would rather choose the lesser of two evils than "throw away their vote" on a third party.

[Amarant]

37. It's pretty simple

Europe does it all the time.

1. For one thing - have run off elections on the national level. (and abolish the electoral college) This way you can vote for any party and still have a chance to vote for the lesser of 2 evils.

2. Prohibit by law corporate influence in our elections.

3. Mandate equal air time for ALL party candidates with state/nationwide support of at least 5%. Mandate they be included in debates.

4. Once 3rd partys begin to get more support coalitions will form as they have in Europe and other democratic states. Say the democratic party has 30% of the vote in the polls and the green party has 20%. Both partys don't want the 3 conservative partys that have already formed a coalition to get power. The dems/greens can't do it alone, so they form a coalition and one party agrees to throw support to the other, or split their candidates. (i.e. they have people running for 16 senate seats. The greens drop 8 of their candidates and the dems 8 of theirs, while both partys support the 16 remaining candidates) Or they agree to adopt some parts of the other parties platform.

You should live in a truly democratic nation for a while. Living in a true democracy is great, unlike the sham that we have here.

[kiahzero]

46. NO run-off elections

Run-offs arbitrarily limit the data gathered from a ballot. Normal run-off is better than instant run-off, if I remember correctly, because it isn't subject to some of the rather disturbing flaws in IRV, but it's still an inferior system.

Condorcet if the capability for ranked voting exists, and Acceptance if it doesn't.

[kiahzero]

44. So start supporting Condorcet voting

That's the best way to get a multiple-party system, and it wouldn't even require a constitutional amendment.

[belle]

63. Um, didn't the Weimar Republic have multiple parties?

In fact, wasn't that part of how the Nazis gained enough clout to gain power? They certainly never had a 50% or more majority, even at the height of their (pre-power) popularity.

[Walt Starr]

70. Hmmm, seems the Republicans and Democrats are moving

closer to what Nazi Germany was with just two parties anyway.

Government by coalition is the only way to keep the corporatists from taking over and forming a fascist government like the one we live under. We have a single party system in this country under the guise of a two party system. They keep us divided with the bullshit issues like abortion, religion, etc. etc. etc. while the status quo is maintained and young people die in wars for profit.

[Gore1FL]

7. Like all extremeists

they will choke on failures as well as their victories. They will be a non-issue in a decade.

[Snoggera]

8. Tell them God is dead and

to get over it.

[RC]

19. You are correct.

For if God were alive ans well, why is he allowing his creation to be destroyed by these evil, selfish recidivisms?

[no_hypocrisy]

9. Watch for legislation in Congress that evicerates the Establishment Clause

of the First Amendment to the Federal Constitution. And then act appropriately with your representative and Senator.

For example there's a proposed Amendement to the Constitution that is called "The Religious Restoration Act" wherein prayer in schools, meetings of local, state, and federal government, etc. are permitted and encouraged, but it won't result in one religion being favored by the government. Sort of emasculating the Establishment Clause and making it worthless.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c108:12:./temp/~c1080WhR8W::

Challenge and fight laws like this and you may slow the fundies down, but trust me, they aren't going away. This is an ongoing battle.

[wildeyed]

10. Stand up to them

they way they have stood up to us.

The religious wrong (they are wrong, not right) in this county are disciplined, organized and they put their money where their mouth is.
The left could learn a lot from them.

Start small, get your people elected to small local positions. Work to get laws changed on the state level. Then run a super-far-lefty for president, but pretend he is a moderate.... No, no, not that, but you know what I am saying.

There are more of us than there are of them. Until recently, most liberals have been complacent, spineless and lazy. If we organize and get active, we can win.

[fudge stripe cookays]

12. You think like me, wildeyed!

I've been considering this the last few weeks, and I've got an idea.

Why don't we beat them at their own game? Do like they did with our school boards and local governments.

Start going to THEIR churches.

Wait...hear me out now. Yes, it would take some serious acting skills, and the patience of a saint.

But we could start off small, as regular members. REad up on the tenets of the religion beforehand. Act like you've moved from another church. Try to mouth the words to the songs if you don't know them. Become respected, follow the pack for awhile. Sign up for some committees. Go to bible school and stay quiet for a few months. Work your way in. Drive the car that DOESN'T have Democrat stickers all over it to the church.

But the minute we see something happening that breaks statutes between church and state, report it. When opinions are needed, inject yours into the official ones at the church. Begin as a "friend" and confidante, and begin to casually question the status quo. If at least one (or MORE) of us did this at each Baptist or Church of Christ or other wingnut church around us in our neighborhood, we could start to change things the same way they did.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but it's necessary. As long as no one questions them where they think they are invincible, they'll keep doing what they're doing.

FSC

[mandyky]

13. I think starting a local Unitarian church would

be more conducive for me. I have been a Bible Baptist and I no longer have the patience or tolerance for pompous hypocrits.

I think we should also work with the athiests and agnostics in this country, maybe in a meetup type setting.

[fudge stripe cookays]

14. That's a great idea too.

I've been considering a Unitarian church as well.

The one that seems like it'd be the closest fit for me is aways from my house, but I'd be willing to make the sacrifice if I don't have a lot going on Sundays.

FSC

[wildeyed]

31. I love the Unitarian church

in my neighborhood. I send my daughter to their pre-school, too. I live in a hyper-conservative area and the Unitarians are like an oasis in the desert.

Actually, it was they and not the democrats that really got me back on track with being a liberal. I have always been a democrat, but somehow felt ashamed and cynical about my beliefs. Like trying to make the world a faireer place is somehow a bad thing.

The Unitarians in my neighborhood strive for tolerance, peace and fairness. They are absolutely serious and unembarrassed about their liberalness. Showed me a new and better way to be. Which is just what a church is supposed to do.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

53. Yep

I'm about to start attending a local UU Church, I want to see what it's like. I've read a lot about them and totally agree with them and they are VERY liberal.

[belle]

65. Me too! Also various interfaith organizations.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. In my more mischievous moments, I envision

going to a fundamentalist church, and when I get the glad-hand greeting at coffee hour, tell them that I left my previous church because "the minister wasn't preaching the true Gospel of Christ." "Oh?" they would say with interest. "Yes," I would say. "He kept supporting war and cutting taxes for the rich. That's not in any Bible I've ever read. I hope you people are more Biblical" :evilgrin:

[fudge stripe cookays]

72. Nice one, Lyd!

I may have to use that one in the future. :-)

[yardwork]

39. I don't think that liberals are spineless and lazy (maybe complacent)

We aren't Nazis. We don't march in military order. Ultimately, that is our strength and their weakness.

Our country is founded on the Constitution, which calls for individuality and freedom.

[wildeyed]

42. Not all, most

and I was probably referring to myself as much as anyone else. I think the lazy, spineless and complacent are changing, too. I am seeing more and more people standing up for their liberal beliefs and out doing things to promote them. As far as individuality and freedom goes, I am all for it. That's why I am a dem.

I do believe that the religious wrong (right) has gotten as far as they have through superior work ethic and self-discipline. They do not represent the views or the best interest of the majority of americans. The majority of americans need to stand up and tell them what they can do with their hateful vision for this country.

[belle]

64. This I agree with.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

15. You will never stop them.

This has been going on since the country was founded....there has always been a strong religous component in US culture, that sometimes found its way into politics. I think you could see things like abolitionism, and the drive for prohibition, as past examples of religion in politics.

And, since this is a democracy, you cant just shut these folks out of poltiics, either. Thats just the way it is.

What we are seeing now, with the Religous Right, is just the latest example of this.

[Amarant]

40. "You will never stop them"

Oh really?

"there has always been a strong religous component in US culture"

You could say the same thing for europe. Crusades anyone? It took them hundreds and hundreds of years - but europe is no longer ruled by the church.

[hlthe2b]

18. Shoot, I think they would move towards pushing arranged marriages

on single women and pushing them out of the workplace. Clearly they would move to make birth control illegal. Can burkhas be far away? We've already seen some extreme fundies advocating corporal punishment (and worse) for children. I don't have to stretch far to imagine that women will lose all individual rights to children and could only travel outside the US with their husband's permission.

Anyone who doubts that the extreme RW fundies would go to war on women's rights, need only encounter a convention of "Promise Keepers," (as I accidentally did not long ago. I was checking out of a major downtown hotel on a business trip as hordes of PK men came in. Not only would they not talk nor look at me, it was as though I (a female) were invisible. The sympathetic front desk staff had changed shifts (and coincidentally or not, were all male. But, they explained to me that they had hosted these "creeps" before and had witnessed how rude they were to the hotel's female guests, so had tried to ensure a few hours between checkouts for most of their previous female guests and the arrival of the bible thumping promise keepers. These hotel guys bent over backwards to move me through the arriving PKers, who would let doors slam in my face, and were oblivious to my attempts to get through their crowd to the hotel taxi stand. A couple of male hotel staffers even waited outside with me until my cab arrived, which is truly very unusual (at least for me). It is not that these Promise Keepers "did" anything to me, just the opposite-- through their contempt I was invisible to them and as such need be afforded none of the polite "niceties," that we normally would do for other humans in a civil society. And here is the irony... I worked for a short time in Saudi Arabia several years ago. The PK's response to me was no better (and in some cases worse) than that of Saudi males to me in SA.

These are not Christians. They truly ARE the American Taliban.

[Blue Gardener]

27. Doesn't surprise me at all

I'm sure they looked at you as some uppity liberal woman that doesn't know that her place is to be home, barefoot and pregnant. Plus, you're probably taking a man's job away from him by being in the workplace. I'm sure they have the dream of going back to the 1950's and the Leave it to Beaver idea of the perfect home. At least the male hotel staff could see them for what they are.

[w13rd0]

33. I think that guy...

...in F911, the one that made the "I'm sure you're trouble for your husband" or somesuch, was a member of the Promise Keepers...

[TankLV]

22. Tax 'em all!

nt

[AirAmFan]

24. Follow the MONEY! 'Faith-based vote-buying' often leaves tracks that ...

... any web-user can follow. See for example http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1973367 .

And, from From http://www.sptimes.com/2004/06/13/Columns/Christian_soldiers_fo.shtml ,

'Christian soldiers for the Bush campaign

By ROBYN E. BLUMNER, Times Perspective Columnist

Published June 13, 2004

President Bush first opens the spigot of public money to churches and other faith-based groups to the tune of OVER A BILLION DOLLARS last year, then he knocks on the faith community's door for a political favor....

Electioneering is not supposed to occur in houses of worship for two very good reasons. One: As organizations enjoying tax-exempt status, churches, synagogues and mosques have agreed to divorce themselves from partisan politics. That is part of the deal for collecting tax-deductible contributions and getting a free ride on most taxes. And two: Mixing religion and politics compromises the integrity of faith. The Rev. Brian Flory, president of the Southeast Pennsylvania Interfaith Alliance, described it this way: "At best, the blatant introduction of politics into a congregation makes it nothing more than a political action committee. At worst, it frays the fabric of a congregation's integrity and mission."

:'The re-election campaign is essentially trying to organize a church-based political apparatus, where congregations are a new kind of Chicago-style ward....As churches are being recruited, Republicans in Congress are doing their part to wave off the IRS. A bill that would allow religious denominations to support political candidates has been slipped into a larger jobs measure in the House. The Safe Harbor for Churches provision would reduce tax penalties for a set number of political endorsements from the pulpit and eliminate them if the endorsement was "unintentional."'

[treepig]

28. they don't want abortion and gays to be illegal (and/or just vanish)

it's all a scam.

the wealthy powers that be - maybe the upper 1% - would never get elected on their own merits (continued wars and tax cuts for themselves).

hence, they need to form an unholy alliance with the ignorant/biased/bigotted denizens of this country (i.e., the american taliban) to bash the gays, moan about abortion, etc.

but, neither group really wants anything done. if so, the alliance would fall apart and the upper 1% would be out of power and the taliban would lose their fund-raising talking points.

if they really wanted something done - why do they keep electing the same repub blowhards who have been railing against abortion and the gays for some 3 decades now? is abortion illegal? are gays thoroughly back in the closet? no - the ilk of rick santorium et al have been miserable failures in this regard - so why in hell do the ignorant masses keep voting for them?

[More Than A Feeling]

29. The Religious Left needs to make itself known in a big way

Challenge the Fundamentalists where they live. Take back the Bible and the idea of morality for the left. A great book to read for this is "The Heart of Christianity" by Marcus Borg. Towards the back, Borg shows how the Bible(especially the Old Testament prophets) can be used to support social justice. They are also an excellent cure for "Criticism of America makes you unpatriotic" syndrome.

[The Commie]

30. Thats the problem...

...What happened to the "William Jennings Bryan-type Democrats"?

[Blue Wally]

36. They went Republican in 1972.........

Don't vilify groups. Seek to coopt them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. The William Jennings Bryan Democrats were

mostly rural. They loved FDR, but the Democrats lost them in the early 1980s, when the massive farm foreclosures occurred, and the Democratic majority in Congress did nothing to help farmers who lost land that had been in their families for generations, due to usurious interest rates and corrupt S&Ls. Dems who fought for the farmers, like Tom Harkin, are still in office.

[BillZBubb]

50. Democrats lost them in the early 1980's??????

Reagan won those rural areas in 1980. The Repugs have been winning the rural vote for a long, long time. Democrats lost them in 1965 when Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

66. They were Dem in the Upper Midwest till later

than in the South and lower Midwest. For all practical purposes, there were no African-Americans in rural Minnesota and very few in urban Minnesota in 1965,

[wildeyed]

32. Toward that end

I have been emailing religious folks I know alerts from Faithful America. FaithfulAmerica.org is an online community of people of faith who want to build a more just and compassionate nation. http://www.faithfulamerica.org/home.htm

Trying to demonstrate that 'pubs don't own religion.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

54. I'm trying, man, I'm trying!!!

although I'd call myself more "spiritual left" than "religious left".

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. Just keep educating people that you don't have to be fundamentalist

to be spiritual.

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[leftofthedial]

41. we launch a war on fundieism

or just declare them terrorists and don't repeal the Patriot Act until they are dealt with.

[Atlanticist]

47. Err...point them to the teachings of Jesus ??!! (n/t)

[Geo55]

48. Carve out a piece of our new "colony"

an' ship 'em all over there.

[jukes]

49. jumpstart rapture

mass Xifictions. EOfuckingM

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

51. Good question

First of all, all fundamentalist Christians who want a good dose of religion in their government need a Civics 101 course to refresh their memory (or learn for the first time) as to why we have separation of church and state.

One particular point will prick up their ears: if you don't want government in your CHURCH, keep the church out of your government! Many of them don't think of it that way, but it's a two-way street and most of the ones I know would shudder at the thought of the government meddling in their church affairs. It works both ways, baby.

Then, I agree with the first responder to this thread: I would suggest (though this suggestion would not come from the government or any agent of the government) that they re-read the Bible. Pay more attention to the New Testament rather than the Old. They ARE Christians, after all. Pay attenion, big-time, to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Give away all of your money? Render unto Caeser what is Caeser's? Judge not, lest ye be judged? Pray for your enemies? Let those without sin cast the first stone? Take the log out of your eye before pointing out the speck in your brothers? Love your brethren?

I don't see ANY of that in what the fundies want in our government now!

Honestly, I think they need to BREATHE. I am a Christian, and I am not of the belief that the entire world will just fall to pieces if gays and lesbians are allowed the full rights I am allowed. Nothing bad is going to happen (or has happened) by allowing women the right to reproductive choice. Of course I hate to think of a life ended before it has started---but if the choice is a lifetime of sadness, abuse, neglect, and especially when I am not the one who has to raise that child, who am I to say?

I think all those against a woman's right to reproductive choice should put their money where their mouths are and adopt five kids each from their state's foster system.

There's someone here (pagerbear?) who has a great signature line: what do your religious beliefs have to do with my rights as an American? I hope I am quoting it correctly, because it is SO well said! I have religious beliefs, but I'll be damned before I am going to assume everyone needs to share in my beliefs or live by my beliefs. I am an American citizen AND a Christian and I feel the rights and freedoms guaranteed to all in my country's Constitution are VERY compatible with Christian beliefs. What isn't compatible is going around telling supposedly free people how they should and shouldn't live their lives!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

52. By the way, I'll tell you, through a story, how they get in power:

In my Dallas suburb of about 125,000 people, there is a lady who, along with her husband, is a fundamentalist Christian and a big Republican. They homeschooled their five children and attend a non-denominational church. He is a OB/GYN who will not prescribe birth control, perform abortions, or give referrals to doctors who prescribe birth control or perform abortions. They are big GOP donors.

Two years ago, she decided the public schools (which they refused to send their kids to) needed a dose of religion. So she got some Ten Commandment book covers and tried to distribute them to the schools. The school district said nothing doin. We can't have the schools as agents for distribution of these book covers. It clearly violates separation of church and state. She fought them, but ended up having to settle for the book covers being "set out" so that students could pick them up if they wanted to (I am a teacher in this district. Guess where they ended up in most schools? In the teacher work room, in a big pile with the other book covers....most kids don't use them...). When she was caught distributing them at one of the high schools, the district consulted the district lawyer to find out if that was ok or not. He said it was iffy, so they told her to back off. Meanwhile, a group called Metroplex Atheists got wind of all this and made up their own book covers, with quotes from Thomas Jefferson, etc. They wanted THEIR book covers available. Since you have to give equal access, they were allowed to have theirs out for picking up if a student so wanted to, too.

The woman was INCENSED. She wrote a letter to the editor accusing the district of contacting Metroplex Atheists. They countered that they did no such thing, it turns out several parents of students in the district are members of that group (could she not have figured that out???).

Well, she decided the only way she could affect REAL change for this heathen district is to run for school board. She had no experience at anything except homeschooling her kids and the only position up for grabs was the school board President, a very popular, steady leader who had served the school board for ten years.

She was nicknamed "the crazy bookcover lady". No one imagined in a million years that she'd defeat a well-liked school board president, so a lot of people (myself included, to my shame) just decided not to vote.

You guessed it. She won by TWENTY-FIVE VOTES.

First thing she did? Try to get homework banned on Wednesday nights. After all, it is a church-going night. When teachers' groups complained and parents complained (hey what about Monday nights? Those are Boy Scout nights! And what about Tuesday nights? Little Jenny has gymnastics!), she relented.

Next: displaying the Ten Commandments and "In God We Trust" in every school. The superintendent basically told her she was off her rocker and that the district would just be INVITING very legitimate lawsuits if they even tried to do something like that. Besides, what was the point?

Next: the naming of a new elementary school. Every school board member except her wanted it to be named Thurgood Marshall Elementary. She objected. Here's why: "Everything he did with regard to civil rights issues was nullified by the fact that he was sitting on the bench and helped to pass Roe v. Wade, meaning he is responsible for the genocide of 30 million unborn children who were ripped from their mother's wombs in the last thirty years."

Yep. Children were in attendance at that school board meeting. Audible gasps and disgusted looks. The name passed anyway, 6 to 1. The man who proposed the name is the school boards' only African-American member and she went on to put on the record that she felt that "naming this school after such an immoral man is just pandering to the political correctness of letting a black person get his way."

Uh-huh. Official comments in the minutes.

Now she is pushing hard for a Bible elective course to be taught in the high schools. Problem is, course requests are supposed to come from the campus, not the school board. So she got a friend of hers to go to the high schools during lunch hours to get kids to sign a petition saying they wanted a Bible course. A lot of them later admitted they didn't even look at what they were signing. The lady was giving away Hershey's bars to whomever signed. A fellow school board member saw this and called her on it at that school board meeting. The school board nixed her suggestion. It is now tabled. She said she will be bringing it up again, but it is doubtful she will succeed.

It goes on: she ran her husband against the African-American school board member, who was up for re-election this year. This time, people DIDN'T assume the more beloved school board member would win and they campaigned hard for him (including yours truly). A member of Metroplex Atheists showed up at a candidate Q&A session and nailed her husband on several issues. He was defeated 70% to 30%.

Now another school board member is up for re-election next year and they are running their 22 year old son against that member. So we have to keep HIM off.

And the year after that (2006), SHE is up for re-election. Community members have been working on finding someone to run against her for the last SIX MONTHS, they want her off so badly.

She has appealed to several national-level ultra-conservative groups to help her and they have pledged to help her in her re-election campaign any way they can. This is just for SCHOOL BOARD. Can you imagine how cutthroat and "do anything necessary to win" they are at higher levels? She seriously believes the children of this district are all going to hell. That's where she and her husband made their fatal mistakes with the people of this city: they insulted them, even the Christians, by stating that the parents aren't doing a good enough job. She's doomed, ultimately, and my city will hold the fundies at bay a bit longer. But can you imagine if we hadn't sat up and started paying attention after she got on the board? If we hadn't had a strong board, willing to stand up to her? If our superintendent wasn't a big ol' Democrat?

Perish the thought.

[mandyky]

55. A thought about an elective Bible course

Find some Pagans and athiests who would be willing to teach an alternative beliefs class. That should nip that one in the bud.

[Disturbed]

59. Representative Republic

America is not a "Democracy". It is suppossed to be a Representative Republic but in reality it is a Plutocracy.

In the Bible what sort of Govt. system do the Christians advocate?

What sort of Govt. System do Right Wing Christian Republicans believe in?

Is it time to abolish tax emptions for all churches?

[AirAmFan]

62. GREAT story! Who on our side has that kind of passion, and how would our ...

... party's leadership capitalize on that kind of passion for OUR issues?

Probably with disrespect and harsh laughter.

[wildeyed]

67. The right answer would then be

get new leaders. People who want to win and are not afraid to play hard.

[AirAmFan]

71. Right! Get rid of the hunkered-down bureaucrats, who fear expanding the party

might endanger their careeers. They'd rather risk losing general elections half the time than risk just ONE primary loss that might cancel their mealticket. Get rid of corporate whores like Lieberman and Daschle, and replace them with people who appeal to "the base" and to current nonvoters in ordinary working families.

[RetroLounge]

56. Tell them to go amend their bibles

and leave the fucking Constitution alone.

RL

[greekspeak]

57. You do not "stop" them...you have to out scream them

Democrats like to play fair and be nice, especially the elected ones. The pukes jump on this and milk it. Every time a democrat opens his or her mouth to criticize, it is labeled "hateful." Then the Puke who labels the democrat "hateful" turns around and curses everyone from Billary to Leahy and back. The ONLY way we are going to be heard over this din of the Puke rabble is to scream back even louder.

I do not want to "stop" these fundamentalists. It is wrong to "stop" someone just because you think they are full of shit and hot air. THey have a right to say the things they say, and speak their minds. It is our job to keep OUR message from being drowned out. A first step? Put back in the Equal Time measures and take out FCC right wing enabling rules. On a day to day basis, when a Fundie/Puke/NeoCon screams some stupid meme that is as stale as white dog poop, scream back at him or her. Wag your finger in a self righteous manner as he or she has probably done. Debunk what they say and demand proof and provide proof for your assertions. First they will be suprised, then they will probably ignore you. But hey...that is one less person they are going to blab to.

[usregimechange]

58. with the plain truth.... nt

[donhakman]

60. Support public education

and stop the wave of fundamentalist schools that are a western version of the Taliban.

[depakid]

61. Education is anathema to fundamentalists

One thing almost all fundamentalists lack is the ability to think critically and to consider alternative points of view. This is one reason why they persist in denigrating the public school system- and disparaging higher education. People who complete their cognitive development are typically not fundies, unless they're in it for the power or for greed (they're also less susceptible to advertising and other crude means of persuasion).

So the key to fighting fundamentalists (as well as other afflictions on the body politic is education- not merely the compilation of facts, but learning the process- the ability to think in the abstract, use logic and apply it through experience. The famous cognitive psychologist Piaget called this final stage of development the "formal operational," and surprisingly enough, most studies indicate that only forty to sixty percent of American college students and adults ever fully achieve it.

[mitchum]

69. BRING ON THE LIONS!

Let them try on the persecution gospel instead of the prosperity gospel that they seem to love so much