Testimony from Abu Ghraib prisoner who witnessed boy being raped (WaPo)

[scottxyz]

This is a shocking document. Not for the faint of heart.

"I saw {name deleted} f***ing a kid, his age would be about 15-18 years. ... I saw {name deleted} who was wearing his military uniform putting his dick in the kid's ass..."

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/abughraib/151108.pdf
(This is a two-page Adobe Acrobat PDF file at the Washington Post website. May be easier to view if you right-click, save, then open on your machine.)

[LibertyorDeath]

1. Thank YOU!!

Hammer This Story INTO THEIR SKULLS

Time for Our Talking Point!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2024522

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2021459&mesg_id=2021459

[buycitgo]

2. is that it? what the pugs do is SO amazingly heinous, the media

won't deal with it, unlike semen stains and oral sex, which, apparently, were just fine to foist on the public

what will the CHILDREN think, when they ask their parents why that soldier was putting his dick in some boy's ass?

"What's THAT all about, daddy?"

[merh]

27. We have created generations of new terrorist who would not have

been a part of al Qaeda if it weren't for us. :cry:

[Hubert Flottz]

3. Thank You Again!

I'll print it out for the preacher! He voted for Bush!

[fortyfeetunder]

4. This is effing senseless

Kick this one to smithereens.

I am utterly disgusted...so disgusted..

We as a nation will deserve any retaliation for what we've done to those people....

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[LibertyorDeath]

7. No we don't but * THEY DO

"We as a nation will deserve any retaliation for what we've done to those people...."

[fortyfeetunder]

12. Sure * and his boys deserve it

But terraists don't discriminate...

[leesa]

46. Of course they discriminate. They are always responding to

something done against them. The only terrorists you need to fear are in the WH

[w13rd0]

5. In #2 of what he says he witnessed...

"<redacted>, I think he is <redacted> because of his accent, and he was not skinny or short, and he acted like a homosexual (gay)."

The first redaction is likely the individuals name as he was known to the prisoners. The second redaction seems to be what? Nationality, race, job description? Because of his accent, and he was not skinny or short, and he acted like a homosexual. What would these things together indicate?

Is this the only report of this within the witness testimony? I think I have some of the PDFs of this from earlier, though I hadn't the heart or patience to read through all of them.

[alarcojon]

6. Holy cripes

This is unbelievable....

[Cleita]

8. All those PDF documents on the WAPost are shocking.

Unfortunately there aren't any graphics like photos and videos to shock people into sense.

[buycitgo]

10. oh, yes there ARE

the media chooses NOT to show them here

haven't you seen the threads about their being shown in Germany

Sy Hersh has also apparently seen them, too

somebody is holding out on the tapes, just as CBS did on the initial photo release, at the behest of the govt

[Supply Side Jesus]

36. so where is the footage!

Christ! I've Download tv episodes that have dutch subtitles off file sharing....yet one of the most explosive video footage EVER can't seem to find its way to the internet from Germany. I find that hard to believe. I hope this never happened, but if the tape does exist, there is nothing more I have ever wanted than to have it find it's way to american tv. This footage WILL bury Bush.

[Kellanved]

39. because there is none

The German report was solely based on interviews.

[Solly Mack]

9. Nothing in this country will ever truly change if America

can't look this evil directly in the eye and do something about it!

Expose it! Call it exactly what it is!! Bring the guilty to trial!

It's in our nations best interests to FULLY expose these war crimes (rape, torture, murder) and to go after ALL the guilty.

[NightOwwl]

11. How did you find this document?

Can you link directly from the Post or is it some kind of hidden website?

Will this get national exposure?

[Cleita]

13. Here's a link to the links.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/abughraib/swornstatements042104.html?g

[LibertyorDeath]

14. Will this get national exposure? YES!!

but FIRST we have to

HAMMER This Story INTO THEIR SKULLS

Time for Our Talking Point!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[scottxyz]

15. WaPo and New Yorker supposedly have copies of the videotape

"Photographic and videotape evidence of this torture is currently in the hands of the New Yorker, the Washington Post, the U.S. Congress and the White House. It must be released."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2021459

[Porcupine]

34. Hey that's CHILD PORN!!! They should all go to jail.....

and then get their penis's zapped by freindly guys in white coats. Nobody who's seen the tapes should ever be allowed to walk loose in society!

Anyway it would happen to them if they weren't part of the ruling class.

(edit)
A certain class of American's celebrate the fact that rape is a fact of life in prisons. These people absolutely don't care if the person raped is a 13 year old in the California Youth Authority or any adult male or female.

Remember the symbol of our predominant religion is an instrument of torture.

[Iris]

41. And the really sad thing is,

it doesn't have to be that way. I heard a report about the youth detention system in Kansas City where they treat juvenile offenders with dignity and respect and, guess what?, it actually works!

[redqueen]

52. Please don't make jokes about child porn

Those innocent of charges are not prosecuted. Those who are not will be punished, but not nearly as severely as they deserve.

[gratuitous]

16. My tax dollars at work . . .

Well yours, too. I wonder why our elected representatives won't let us see what our money bought?

There's a two-prong reason for this: First, these rapes are mine; I own them. They belong to me, and it's my right to see them if I want.

Second, if there's retaliation coming, I think I deserve to know what I might expect.

Are there people going to be pissed off about this? You'd better believe it. Have they seen what's in these reports or in these photos and videos? Almost certainly. So why can't I see them? I don't need to be "protected" from this or have it censored by well-meaning representatives. Let's get it out there. It serves no true interest of the United States to keep this back.

[donco6]

17. they'll just blame it on gays.

That's the way the spin will go. "See, THIS is why we CANNOT have gays in the military! Everytime you turn around, they're shoving their dick up some kid's ass."

Mark my words.

[Solly Mack]

18. I'm sure they will

:(

[LibertyorDeath]

21. These Children were Tortured to get their Parent(s)

To Talk this is not spin-able IMO

This is Kryptonite WE MUST USE IT.

It's all over Europe & the ME

& it's right here right now.

[donco6]

63. Of course it's spin-able.

Which explanation are most RWers - heck, most people in general - most likely to believe:

"Our military has become so corrupt, that they are routinely abusing all manner of prisoners, even children, with impunity."

"Our military has been infiltrated by immoral homosexuals who cannot control their earthly lusts."

Listen to that hummmmm as the spin fires itself up.

[October]

44. Sadly, I agree with you

Still...someone was holding the camera....others were watching....they can't get away with saying everyone in the prison was gay. Also, wasn't there a woman gang-raped? Was it the same group of guys?

[Octafish]

19. What's Jerry Falwell say? Pat Robertson? Ralph Reed?

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" — Jerry Falwell, Founder, Moral Majority, Inc.

You all are psychopaths. — Octafish

[wtf]

20. they're way ahead of you....

http://www.sftt.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=737

[Octafish]

22. War crimes go straight up the chain of command.

Wow! That poster lays it out on the boots in the field. The facts are when it comes to war crimes, no matter how many levels or boxes in the org chart, when it comes to war crimes there are no "cut outs." Even if they are never prosecuted for raping children (it is so hard to TYPE those words, let alone imagine what these psychopaths do in the name of my country) -- even if they are never prosecuted, the responsibility goes straight through Rumsfeld to George W Bush.

I pity his soul.

[Sugarbleus]

25. Holee Cow!...I just read your link...what a bunch of dufusses...

So, all those fellas in our State prisons sodomizing other inmates are homosexual I suppose??? Fercrissakes..... :eyes:

[scottxyz]

28. Read the link too... all four pages of it

Most of the posters there seem to be saying the problem about Iraqi boys being raped in prison happened because of "gays in the military." In other words, it's Clinton's fault, as usual.

I wanted to log into their website and post a comment, but couldn't figure out how to do it. (Maybe you have to be former military.) Anyways, I'll post my comments here:

(1) Maybe if it were legal to be openly gay in the military, the gay soldiers would be screwing each other rather than young Iraqi prisoners.

(2) Some of the children raped were girls. So I guess that means we need to ban heterosexuals from the military too?

The main thing to remember is that several of the children were raped and tortured and THEN SHOWN TO THEIR PARENTS as a way of getting the parents to "confess". (Never mind that according to US officers quoted by the Red Cross, 70-90% of the detainees were detained "by accident.")

So it sounds to me like the abuse of children (and showing them to their parents) was just another clever technique the higher-ups dreamed up as a way of getting the detainees to "confess".

[Sugarbleus]

33. Yes, I read them. I like your reponses 1-2. Well said! eom

[DavidFL]

38. I'm not sure if you meant your first point this way...

but gay men have no more proclivity toward pedophelia, or engaging in sexual acts with children, than straight men do. If I misunderstood what you meant, please tell me, but let's not give the erroneous belief that all gay men are pedophiles any more credence than it apparently has on this other website.

Further, there's nothing sexual about rape at all. It's a twisted expression of control and domination by one person over another. God help the children that were raped in this prison because I have a close friend who was raped 17 years ago when they were a child and they are still dealing with its impact today.

[LibertyorDeath]

26. Check out this reaction Maybe we've got something

the Right & Left can agree on

Start

Sapper tell me this isn't true? WTF is going on in that place? WTF kind of man, even a queer would do that to kids?

The soldiers/contractors/who ever TF involved in this needs to be lined up in a court yard and let the Iraqi army do them in, or maybe their heads cut off.

Dude just tell us this is some wierd yellow journalism you got off of a freak site?

Raping kids? Is that what this war has come to? FTA if this is the shiit they are pulling. WTF kind of info could these kids have anyway?

The rest of the Posts are Shit IMO

http://www.sftt.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=737

[Sugarbleus]

30. Yeah, I read them. I guess the one you quoted showed a wee

bit of *cough* class.......... the rest was just ignorance.

[merh]

31. There is the spin - blame in on the homosexuals, not on

* and his repukes. Now it makes perfect sense why they tried to pass the Amendment regarding marriages without having the necessary votes. They have taken a stand against homosexuals, the type of people that have committed these atrocities. They knew this story was going to hit the u.s. media so they began their pre-assault prep. Now they can say they have tried to take a stand against homosexuals and the dems didn't - damn, they know their spin and the tactics to take before the shit hits the fan.

They are evil.....

[bobbieinok]

48. can't access

[redqueen]

53. "Most pedophiles attack young boys"

This assertion is made by Sapper on that site. If I'm not mistaken that's complete and utter bullshit.

Why do reich-wingers hate facts?

:eyes:

[Swamp Rat]

24. I point MY finger at the ugly faces of Falwell, Robertson, Reed and say

YOU helped put Bush into power! YOU supported this illegal and immoral war! YOU caused ALL of this! YOU are personally responsible for the rape and torture of children and genocide!

I will not be satisfied with kicking Bush&Co out of office. Bush&Co and all the fucking assholes that spewed their propaganda must go to prison for life.

[Octafish]

40. What Swamp_Rat said.

Word. Every word.

[TNOE]

45. Second That.

I hardly wanted to click on this because it is so damn sickening, but it's important, so must.

I feel all gross after clicking on that site! Disgusting!!!

[redqueen]

54. AMEN!

:grr:

[Tsiyu]

23. Abuse of Children is Every Nation's Little Secret

You and I are appalled. Others are merely outraged by our outrage.

Americans only pay lip service to issues concerning children.

This story should make every American hang his or her head in shame. It will be forgotten soon. Though I hope I am wrong this time.

[redqueen]

57. I wish you were wrong.

:cry:

http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32301

Approximately 879,000 children (or 12.2 per 1,000) were maltreated (neglected or abused) in 2000.

Sixty-three percent of maltreated children were neglected, nineteen percent were physically abused, ten percent were sexually abused, and eight percent were emotionally or psychologically maltreated.

In 2000, 51.9 percent of child victims of maltreatment were female, and 48.1 percent were male.

The rate of victimization of children was inversely related to the age of the child. Children from birth to age 3 were victimized at the highest rate.

More than half of all child victims were white (50.6 percent), almost a quarter were black (24.7 percent), and nearly a sixth (14.2 percent) were Hispanic. American Indian/Alaska Natives made up 1.6 percent of victims, and Asian-Pacific Islanders accounted for 1.4 percent.

Nearly nine percent of child victims experienced recurrence of maltreatment within six months of the initial substantiated incident.

The majority of perpetrators of child maltreatment in 2000 were women (59.9 percent), while men accounted for 40.1 percent.

Seventy-nine percent of perpetrators were parents of the maltreated child, and other relatives made up 8.5 percent of perpetrators. Both parents were perpetrators in 18.7 percent of cases.

Thirty-seven children were killed by their babysitter in 2001.

[redqueen]

58. Child Abuse and Neglect Fatalities

Three or Four children are murdered in the US EVERY SINGLE DAY! A very CONSERVATIVE estimate.

http://nccanch.acf.hhs.gov/pubs/factsheets/fatality.cfm

How Many Children Die Each Year From Child Abuse and Neglect?
The National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System (NCANDS) reported an estimated 1,400 child fatalities in 2002. This translates to a rate of 1.98 children per 100,000 children in the general population. NCANDS defines "child fatality" as the death of a child caused by an injury resulting from abuse or neglect, or where abuse or neglect were contributing factors.

Many researchers and practitioners believe child fatalities due to abuse and neglect are underreported. States' definitions of key terms such as "child homicide," "abuse," and "neglect" vary (therefore, so do the numbers and types of child fatalities they report). In addition, some deaths officially labeled as accidents, child homicides, and/or Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) might be attributed to child abuse or neglect if more comprehensive investigations were conducted or if there was more consensus in the coding of abuse on death certificates.

Recent studies in Colorado and North Carolina have estimated as many as 50 to 60 percent of deaths resulting from abuse or neglect are not recorded (Crume, DiGuiseppi, Byers, Sirotnak, Garrett, 2002; Herman-Giddens, Brown, Verbiest, Carlson, Hooten, et al., 1999). These studies indicate that neglect is the most underrecorded form of fatal maltreatment.

[seemslikeadream]

29. I AM TOO SCARED TO CLOSE MY EYES

http://www.bushflash.com/year.html WATCH THIS VIDEO



Enveloped in a sentiment,
A sound that rushes over me.
Engage an impulse to pretend
I have a faith as pure.
Not forgetting what it means to dream.
Indulging everything.
Entertaining thoughts that I've the strength
Of those I yearn to be.
Cheers and tribute greet the saviours.
Reckless thoughts survive.
Anachronistic and impulsive.

And what will happen?
Will I dream?
I am too scared to close my eyes.
For a second please hold me.
None can change in me these things that I believe.
But I don't know what happens now.
I am too scared to close my eyes.


Legion
Vnv Nation

[bobbieinok]

49. wow.......people who see their homes, families, destroyed.....

what do they have to lose if they totally erupt in rage against the people they think are responsible?....everything they loved and worked for is gone.....all they have left is 'honorable revenge'

it's sort of 'easy' to say turn the other cheek, forgive 7 times 7....until it happens to you

[mhr]

32. And Bush's Main Supporter Of All Form's Of Torture None Other Than .....

Never Forget The Face Of American Fascism'THIS IS NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HAPPENS AT THE SKULL & BONES INITIATION...I'M TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE HAVING A GOOD TIME. THESE PEOPLE -- YOU EVER HEARD OF EMOTIONAL RELEASE? YOU EVER HEARD OF NEEDING TO BLOW SOME STEAM OFF?'

[milkyway]

35. I just finished watching "Cold Mountain" with my two sons, ages 14 & 11.

I would have liked to have told them that the barbaric behavior shown in the film is a thing of the past, but they would know it's a lie.

Welcome to the 21st Century, hope you enjoy your stay in Abu Ghraib.

[LibertyorDeath]

37. Seymour Hersh charges published in Washington Times.

NightOwwl (204 posts) Mon Jul-19-04 11:17 PM
Original message
Seymour Hersh charges published in Washington Times.



A partisan right-wing slanted publication.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040717-094145...

Dare I hope this means the rest of the American media will jump onboard?

[wishlist]

43. Correct Link to The Washington Times

is here:

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040717-094145-3801r.htm

There is another general discussion thread talking about this article.

[enough]

42. kick

[TeacherCreature]

47. I get only gobbledygook

can someone put this in a format I can open. I have microsoft xp, so I can not figure out the problem.

[redqueen]

50. Great - won't work for me

Opens as a blank page, and the saved file won't open.

:(

Thanks for the post, though! :thumbsup:

[ocean girl]

55. Doesn't work for me either. I use Mac OSX and Preview

instead of Acrobat because it's about 100 times faster.

I just get blank PDF file. Any MacAddicts have this problem with these files?

[TeeYiYi]

69. I'm using OSX and it opened right up for me . . .

. . . in Acrobat.

TYY

[RebelOne]

70. Yes, I use a Mac at the office.

And it couldn't open the file. I'm home now, so going to try on my PC.

[bobbieinok]

51. but you KNOW the RW response to this 'you believe a Muslim

who's out to destroy all christians??????????'

[jackstraw45]

56. WHY isn't this document on the FRONT PAGE of papers across the country?

ARRRGH.

This is so sick.

What is even MORE sick is this administration covering it up with the help of the Corporate media, scared to lose their tax breaks.

[MissB]

59. Can someone help me access these?

I can't click on them and get them opened. I have adobe acrobat. I've even tried right-clicking and saving and they still won't open. Any ideas?

[LibertyorDeath]

62. UPI NewsTrack TopNews

BAGHDAD, July 17 (UPI) -- American journalist Seymour Hersh has said there are videotapes of American soldiers sodomizing young Iraqi boys at Abu Ghraib prison.

The investigative journalist, one of the first to break the story of prisoner abuses, said the Bush administration is holding the tapes of these acts, Aljazeera.net reported Saturday.

"The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling, and the worst part is the soundtrack, of the boys shrieking. And this is your government at war," he said.

More http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040717-094145-3801r.htm

[LibertyorDeath]

60. *

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[redqueen]

61. .

:kick:

[Swamp Rat]

64. kick

[scottxyz]

65. Why is the media sitting on these videotapes?

Is there some kind of rule you can't release a videotape that you KNOW will topple the current Administration?

Someone should put the videotapes on the web - since the corporate media isn't interested in doing its job.

[ClassWarrior]

66. kick

:kick:

[usregimechange]

67. kick, nt

[stickdog]

68. kick

[deacon]

71. The congress knows and won't do a damn thing about it

What a sorry lot they are.