Crisis in Sudan: Should the US contribute troops?

[gottaB]

PIPA issued a report on American attitudes about the Sudan crisis which shows that a majority of Americans would favor military intervention to prevent a genocide in Darfur.

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Africa/html/new_7_20_04.html#1

How does DU compare? To find out, I'm going to ask the same basic questions PIPA asked.

The fifth question is, if African, European and other countries were to contribute the majority of troops to a peacekeeping force in Darfur, should the US also contribute troops?

[On the Road]

1. How on Earth Can the Bush Administration

claim to be in Iraq for the sake of the Iraqis if he doesn't send troops to Chad?

Maybe it has something to do with the pending oil contracts.

[gottaB]

3. Maybe--but if you look at Bushco in the best possible light

Another kind of explanation is that the Vulcans led the war in Iraq, whereas Powell is leading the Sudan initiative.

I don't believe seeing Bushco's foreign policy in the best possible light is warranted at this point. But there it is.

[On the Road]

4. It's True That This Behavior is Nonpartisan

I mean, Clinton didn't send troops to Rwanda, Liberia, or Sierra Leone.

But nether did he send 200,000 troops to invade another county on the pretense it was for their own good.

[gottaB]

5. I believe Clinton learned from his mistake in Rwanda

Is that a partisan thing?

[On the Road]

7. Intervening in Poor Countries with No Strategic Importance

Is a pretty rare thing for this country.

I think Clinton knew the lesson beforehand. The Rwanda decision was due to pragmatism rather than anything else -- Clinton knew he would be skewered by the right for sending troops.

Clinton was better than most presidents on foreign policy -- certainly much better thaN GWB. But his attitidue was "What do I get for being an internationalist?" As much as I understand his political fight for his life, that attitude bothers me. But perhaps he was misquoted or it was taken out of context.

The nonpartisan observation is more from Chomsky than anwhere else. While the Republicans are the party of aggression and imperialism today, historically Democrats have been just as good at it. And that bothers me, too.

[Redhead488]

2. If the Europeans,

who created most of the mess that is much of Africa, contibute troops, we should as well.

[AndyTiedye]

6. What Troops?

They are busy.

I wouldn't put it past the regime to agree to send a token number of
troops, and use that as an excuse to start up the draft.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. We still have the Salvation Army and the Cub Scouts

[AFSCME girl]

25. Good one.............

:kick:

[gottaB]

26. The 400 special ops sent to protect the Olympics,

Are they Boy Scouts?

[gottaB]

19. Like the roughly 1800 troops fighting terrorism in Djibouti?

Those troops are often mentioned.

IMO, if there is a draft, it will be because of the war in Iraq.

Two more calls for action:

civilrights.org: http://www.civilrights.org/issues/human/details.cfm?id=24309

Africa Action: http://capwiz.com/africaaction/mail/oneclick_compose/?alertid=6004806

[DrWeird]

21. Easy. Just pull them out of Iraq.

They shouldn't be there in the first place.

[gottaB]

9. Christian Science Monitor asks the same question

In Sudan crisis, a duty to intervene?

Their poll is running 51 to 49 at the moment.

IMHO, the way PIPA put the question more realistically reflects the scale of any potential US involvement. Other nations like Germany have already expressed a willingness to send peacekeepers. Nigeria has committed peacekeepers, and others have contributed to the AU's mission to monitor the ceasefire.

I saw a figure quoted of 15,000 troops needed in order to safely deliver supplies to the displaced. I'll look into that.

[mmonk]

10. Do we have a clone army somewhere?

Do they have oil?

[gottaB]

11. There is oil in Sudan

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x694104#694707

[mmonk]

24. Ah

Thanks

[LSdemocrat]

12. Yes, If we weren't stuck in the quagmire that is Iraq

[fabius]

13. What troops?

Let the Europeans do it, they really are responsible for most of the mess that's Africa.

If we hadn't gotten into Iraq we'd be able to do something.

[Forkboy]

14. Better there than Iraq

[Swamp Rat]

15. NO! We should send food and the Peace Corp.

It is so sad that Sudan has oil. There are incredible people there like the Dinka and Nuer that have such beautiful and interesting cultures. Sadly, these are the folks that will suffer most if not be exterminated completely. The only reason to send troops there (for Bush&Co) would be to secure the oil. They would do NOTHING to save people's lives... look at Iraq. Before Bush&Co can start invading other countries - Iran, Syria, Sudan - they'll need at the minimum 3 more million troops. It's a wild guess, but I have the feeling that I am underestimating since China and Russia will likely not sit still for long either. If I were between 17 and 26 years old, I'd go here:

http://www.objector.org/advice/contents.html

[Redhead488]

18. You can still go

The Peace Corp will take you.

Right, no troops...just food and peace. That has worked SO well in Africa over the last 40 years.

[Swamp Rat]

23. OK, I'll join the Peace Corps and YOU join the military

I'll go save people and YOU go kill people, since you imply peaceful relations and food are not the answer. :eyes:

I'm serious Redhead488. Get your ass to the recruitment office TODAY. Don't be a chicken. Stand by your words. :spank:

[leanings]

27. Yeah, look what a good job

humanitarian intervention has done in Africa over the last 50 years when it's not backed by military force. People aren't becoming refugees because there's no cable or they can't get decent Chinese takeout-you can get as moral as you wish and it doesn't change the fact that there are bad people in the world with guns that don't give two shits about peaceful intentions.

[Swamp Rat]

31. Can you be specific instead of painting humanitarian intervention

with a broad brush?

"People aren't becoming refugees because there's no cable or they can't get decent Chinese takeout"

This is non-sequitur.

"-you can get as moral as you wish"

I do not believe 'morality' exists.

"and it doesn't change the fact that there are bad people in the world with guns that don't give two shits about peaceful intentions."

This truism does nothing to help the "Sudanese question," and I'd debate with you until the end of time about military intervention in the Sudan.

IF we had a humanistic government here in the USA I might consider other options, but with Bush&Co in control our military, the latter will NEVER be used for humanitarian purposes.

[Redhead488]

33. I spent 25 years

in the military...how many have you spent in the peace corp?

[gottaB]

16. One proposed course of action

Here's a letter to Bush recommending a course of action that includes support for military intervention:

http://www.globalsolutions.org/programs/peace_security/peace_ops/conflicts/darfur_letter.html

[gottaB]

17. kick

:kick:

[JHBowden]

20. I'd support it.

I don't know where the personnel would come from, but yes.

[gottaB]

22. Air America Kick

Al Franken is discussing this with Nicholas Kristof at this moment

[leanings]

28. I don't see how we can sit thru this and

retain any tattered remaining shred of moral integrity that we might happen to still possess.

But where are the Europeans on this? C'mon France, Germany, Russia...fucking contribute if you want to stay relevant!

[gottaB]

29. Germany has mentioned sending troops, France is opposed

The UK is now considering it.

http://www.mg.co.za/Content/l3.asp?ao=119123

[MadProphetMargin]

30. Absolutely not. We are not the world's cop.

[gottaB]

32. Are we the world's neighbor?

It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood,
A beautiful day for a neighbor.
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?

It's a neighborly day in this beauty wood,
A neighborly day for a beauty.
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?

I've always wanted to have a neighbor just like you.
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So, let's make the most of this beautiful day.
Since we're together we might as well say:
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?
Won't you please,
Won't you please?
Please won't you be my neighbor?

[gottaB]

34. A concurrent resolution declaring genocide in Darfur, Sudan

genocide in Darfur, Senate Resolution

genocide in Darfur, House Resolution

The fifth item calls for a multinational force to be authorized.

(5) urges the President to seek a United Nations Security Council resolution under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter that directs the Member States of the United Nations to impose targeted sanctions against those responsible for the atrocities committed in Darfur, Sudan, authorizes a multinational force to guarantee humanitarian access and security for foreign aid workers and internally displaced persons, urges a halt to violence committed by armed militias and by the armed forces of Sudan and the safe, secure, and the sustainable return of internally displaced persons and refugees to their homes, creates a Commission of Inquiry to investigate the unfolding genocide, recommends measures to create accountability in Darfur, Sudan, and calls for the establishment of a formal peace process for permanent resolution of grievances between Darfurians and the Government of Sudan;

[gottaB]

41. Senator Feingold's statement in support of S. Con Res 124

http://allafrica.com/stories/200407220882.html

[Jack Rabbit]

35. I'd like to vote YES, but . . .

. . . Whose troops are we going to contribute?

We have 138,000 troops on occupation duty in Iraq. That doesn't leave a lot left over for any missions that really are urgent.

[Redhead488]

36. Considering the Army has about 500,000K

troops, and the Marines about 180K more....I think we can find them if needed.

[InkAddict]

37. Sure, why not? If they can find any more soldiers.

It seems this admin is more interested maintaining the "Missionary Position" as cover for their oil greed.

http://www.aboutsudan.com/interviews/baroness_cox_stokes_the_flames_o.htm

http://www.sudan.net/news/press/postedr/28.shtml

[gottaB]

38. I don't usually give much credence to Larouchies

What specifically do suggest I should take from those links?

[noonwitch]

39. No-only because our troops are spread too thin at the moment

We (and our similarly affluent allies) should send humanitarian and medical aid, and the UN should send the troops. I saw a story on the BBC about this situation-someone needs to send them some tents and some modular building materials, along with the food and medical care. They're going to have a serious epidemic of cholera or some other water-born disease, with the people in the refugee camps exposed to the elements and no sanitation. That on top of the starvation is going to mean thousands or more dead.

[BaysideLiberal]

40. kick n/t

nt