Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

My 75 yr old Father-in-laws review of F 9/11 (he's a retired Professor....

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:19 PM
Original message
My 75 yr old Father-in-laws review of F 9/11 (he's a retired Professor....
...from a PAC 10 University)/ This is an excerpt he sent me from a letter he sent to friends on the East Coast...I thought it was interesting to hear his analysis given his education, age and experience...the last time he had gone to the "movies" was about 20+ years ago....

Dear Ann:

We saw Fahrenheit 9/11 yesterday, for you! Well, almost only for you. In fact, so many of our circle of friends and family have seen it and wondered what we thought about it or told us what they thought of it; and I'd read William Raspberry's opinions in the newspaper. All this led me to conclude that it's actually of historical interest. So, we'd better see it for ourselves. Here are my impressions:

In a way, it's a masterpiece of social history. He paints a picture of people in our society and what they are doing to themselves and to strangers far away. It's like Shakespearian drama. Strange and dark forces are at work in minds and in society at large. People are Moore's actors. Sometimes he himself interviews or tries to engage them . Other times others have captured them on cameras, or he has found them on TV screens. Modern technology has given him a mass of images from which to select for his theater. He portrays the rich and powerful, many many of them - for instance, almost all of the Bushes and their circle: the Saud royal family with its enormous fortune and thus monetary power; the Bushes and their financial holdings and grubbings; Cheney; business people of Halliburton and other corporations, greedy for their share of the loot of government contracts; the inner circle of the Whitehouse and administration (Powell, and all the others who are having the sweat daubed from their upper lips or cheeks powdered or hair slicked down) - all vanity and power-thirsty; congresspeople: blacks pleading for a single senator to allow them to present their grievances; Jim McDermott of Washington State; representatives who vote for war but of whose sons and daughters only one serves in the war - these representatives picked off on the street corner by Moore, but avoiding him like he has the plague. Then there are the kids. They are the down-and-outs of Flint - picked off by the Marine recruiters. They serve, they play with and joke about the genitalia of Iraqian corpses. They come home in caskets or with legs and hands blasted off. Then there are the patriots, such as the proud mother who has always backed her government blindly in whatever it did and who encouraged her son to sign up not just out of zeal but for financial reward (G.I. bill etc.). She wails as out of a Greek tragedy and stands before the fence that protects the rich and powerful president at a great distance from the Whitehouse. I also was treated to an image of a slickly made up young white lady. She told me of her approval of the government's policy to make war. Her name was Britney Speers (spelling?). I'd never have seen her had I not seen this movie. And so forth. Indeed, the movie had too much in it to comprehend at one sitting - just like a great Shakespearian tragedy.

One friend said that the film should have been edited. Well, I don't think so. It was painful in its length and details about a very sordid story. The film made me sick. I felt sick about our society, our country. I felt sick for the injured and aggrieved Iraqis and Americans, as I was sickened by the horrible graphic images of shattered bodies, most especially by the infrared images of human figures being destroyed by American rockets fired from airplanes. These were a masterful tribute to Donald Rumsfeld and his absurd notion that you can win a war of invasion by arms alone and a metaphor for his ruthlessness, arrogance and sense of invincibility.
You see, you have set off a great flood of thoughts, which come out on the page like a crazy quilt.

Most comment about the film has been directed at its direct or implied political commentary and significance. Most of us know that the Republican establishment did all it could through Disney to keep it off the screens. And it's obvious to all that it portrays George Bush as a blend of childishness, spoiled brattishness, cowardliness, ignorance, brashness, and so forth. But, this was secondary to me to the way the film represented the ugly underbelly of our society and how, bit by bit, we are being morally and financially impoverished. I am more worried than ever about the advance of fascism amongst us.

Many of my friends have fretted that they don't know what they can do to get the society on a healthier course. Michael Moore was able to find something to do. His work of art can be described as propagandistic. That doesn't bother me. It was documentary to the extent that real people were involved, real time, real words and wounds. I would call it counter-propaganda. In an age of mass culture and mass media, you have to fight fire with fire. The population is swamped by the administration with lies, distortions and propaganda. I need only cite the President's landing on the aircraft carrier, his strutting out in military fashion (like dictators we know of from our earlier selves) and boastfully claiming victory to an audience captive to their Commander-in-chief. I was enraged when I first saw the speech as it was delivered, and I was enraged again yesterday when Moore replayed parts of it for us.

Well. Basta! I regret that we can't be together with you and anyone else who could tolerate our rant. Perhaps we'd have greatly different opinions about the tragedy of the Bush administration. But I'm sure that we'd turn the air blue with our words about it and Moore's drama about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Counter propaganda !
Edited on Tue Jul-20-04 05:26 PM by SpiralHawk
Well said, Prof. Summa Cum Laude.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. that's the ticket
counter propaganda

fighting fire with fire
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. Bullseye: F9/11 is Counter-Propaganda necessary to fight this Admin's
Propaganda and deceipt....the difference being that it's based on truth unlike what bU$H cO. does...

My Father-in-law got it right....he said to me in a recent conversation that they (this admin) doesn't play by the rules and the Democrats who are still playing by the old "rule book" are going to get squashed...

That is why this movie is so great...it helps "fight the fire with fire"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
57. Kerry should read that, and hear your FIL's comments
Edited on Wed Jul-21-04 01:47 PM by redqueen
on how Democrats who play by the old rule book will be squashed.

Mary Beth seems to get it, so maybe the meaning is already understood.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Heddi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. you should email this to
Michael Moore's website. This is a great peice! Hooray for Dad!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Fantastic letter! I'd give anything to have a family member like that!
"Counter-propaganda"! Bullseye!

I also agree about the Shakespearean tragedy aspect.

Not much to say...... this is a masterpiece......

:toast: to your father-in-law, you lucky one.....

Kanary
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
35. Yes, I am pretty lucky to have him as my Father-in-Law....
Edited on Tue Jul-20-04 07:40 PM by Pachamama
...my husband always says I married him for his Dad....When I'm mad at my husband, I remind him that is true.... :)

All joking aside, I really am fortunate...you always hear horror stories of people's in-laws and I can claim to be one of the lucky ones who loves her in-laws and looks forward to visits with them....

We get to engage in fantastic and lively conversations and I learn a lot from him...

He is a big fan of Shakespeare if its not obvious and loves going to the Ashland, OR Shakespearean Festival....I liked his analogy to MM's film having aspects of a Shakespearean tragedy too...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. whoa
we gotta keep this puppy kicked to the top.

everyone should also recommend it for the front page.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
childslibrarian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wow! What a great review
He must have been a wonderful professor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yes!! "Fight fire with fire"!! Thank your father-in-law for taking....
...the time to write this...excellent!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
37. I'll thank him from the DU gang & let him know his fan base...he already
is aware of the Democratic Underground and is fascinated about it...I hope he won't mind I posted it...I thought it would be appreciated...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onecitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yea! Yea! Yea!
GREAT letter. I loved it! And your Father-in-law!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. kick
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'd sure like to sit down and have a drink with your dad.
And some conversation.
His comments moved me almost as much as the movie.
You're a very luck lady to have a dad like that.
Here's to ya, prof.
:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. He loves drinking Red Wine - I'm sure he'd enjoy having a drink too
Edited on Tue Jul-20-04 07:38 PM by Pachamama
...and sharing his thoughts on the current going-ons...he's a very wise man...it was he who told me years ago about PNAC, Richard Perle and the rest of the Neo-cons...I had never heard about any of them, and he did...

He says that these times are scarier than the days of Mccarthyism...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kick
great letter!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. .
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. excellent review!
Edited on Tue Jul-20-04 05:59 PM by Lisa
I think it's a real tribute to Moore's ability, that he can tell the story in a compelling fashion even to people who may "know" some of the concepts already. People from many different backgrounds have seen it, and come away shaken and inspired -- not easy to achieve with documentaries or fictional films!

I confess that I've seen the movie 4 times (twice by myself, and twice with other people who were scared they would break down and cry in the theatre, and wanted company). I normally do not watch films repeatedly -- even ones I have on DVD (in fact, I've given almost all my DVDs to the local public library because I don't like re-watching movies!). I've never watched any commercial release more than twice. But I've been riveted each time -- and I keep seeing new things. Going into it, I wondered whether it won the Cannes prize for political reasons alone -- after all, the techniques Moore uses aren't groundbreaking (he even goes out of his way not to be "artsy"). But the more I see of the movie, the more I think it's going to become an important historical document -- I now believe the jury was justified. (Please let future generations of Americans look back and exclaim, "What were they thinking?", not toss this into the memory hole.)

Your father-in-law put it so well -- the film shows real people -- things that were there all along. Moore didn't make them up. Those Iraqi kids were playing in the streets before the bombs fell, but they were ignored by the "embedded" media in favor of other images. Bush had his hair primped for the cameras. Like looking behind the scenes at a magic show -- the wires were there, and the rabbit was concealed under the table.


p.s. interesting that he didn't recognize Britney either -- I've heard of her, and seen her on TV, but she changes her "look" so much that the audience started to laugh knowingly when she appeared onscreen and I didn't know who it was!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
americanwomanone Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Fantastic Revue! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. Way to go DAD!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. What a cool father in law
Are you sure he is 75?
There is so much vigor in his writing it is hard to believe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
41. 75 and looks like Sean Connery...gardens daily, takes walks & travels
And get this - he hasn't had "garbage" collection for over 42 years...he and his wife who is a Biologist, recycle and compost everything...that which can't be recycled gets taken in a little bag to the dump quarterly....

What's even better....his son (my husband) is a chip off the old man...I married wisely....:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. Moore is fighting Fire with Fire...he is using the capilatist system
Edited on Tue Jul-20-04 06:05 PM by opihimoimoi
to fuel the debate, the cause, the desire to Rectify.

Success will enable a higher level of approach.

Moore has done it.... this will lead to more of Moore.

A Great review. Mahalo for posting thoughts of a wise and learned person.

My hat is off in Salute.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Champion Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
17. Kicked
:kick:



:kick:




.:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. Wow!
This is one of the most insightful views I've read. Thanks for sharing it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Remember folks
by clicking the printer friendly tab below her post it captures just that post... Makes it easier to email...FYI
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. YOU
lending a helping hand!!???

Oh, the horrors!!! :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I was just trying to return a ladies sun glasses....
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
medeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
22. 90 yr old
Dad saw it last week as well. He's blind but felt compelled to go. Called me saying "It's great!" Mind you he has every book on tape and learned nothing new.

Great letter from your Dad. Our seniors need to speak up...they can see through Rove's smoke and mirrors.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. Incredible! Just incredible!
I love your father-in-law! :loveya:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. Whoa, what a FIL!! Front page???
I think so. What all that has happened says about US is much more important than the Bush family. How do you recommend stuff for the front page?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. To nominate this for the Front Page, go to the original message and at
...the base of the post on the left hand side is an area near the alert that says "nominate for the front page"...

My Father in Law would blush at all this feedback.... :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Speaking of blushing...
doh, it was right in front of my face. :dunce:

It's nominated. That really lifted my spirits. I wish every kid in America could have a teacher like your father in law!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. He can blush in private
right?

Please print this thread out and send it to him.

Can propaganda be proaganda if it's the truth?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
46. So print it out and send it to him, or send him the url and insist that he
read it. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Called "Dad" tonite - told him he's getting rave reviews on the DU....
...he started laughing....I've sent him the thread....he's never been onto our "Forum" but wants to check it out....I don't know if he'll register, but he will have some fun looking I'm sure....I should start publishing more of his "writings" on the DU (with his permission ofcourse). He's written some beauties to the local editors of papers, some published some not and letters to his Congressman and Senators....Fascinating too is to hear his take on the Middle East Mayhem...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mede8er Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. PAC 10 baby.........
Sorry, I get a little carried away when I read truly insightful dialogue.......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbyboucher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
28. Holy mackerel! Can we forward it?
I'd kinda like to let some people see it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. kick
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Please forward it...I'm going to ask him if he will allow his name to be
written on it....

Maybe he'll send it himself then to Michael Moore or his local newspaper...

What's funny is that he was a little aprehensive about seeing the movie to start with....obviously he was impressed and I really love the statement he made about that about it not just being an anti-Bush movie, but rather the bigger statement it says about the morals and underlieing fabric of our society here in the United States.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. Do you know what he was apprehensive about?
And, yes, the bigger statement about the state of our society is ..........sobering.....

It would be so much easier if it WAS just bushwa.... get rid of him, and his henchment, and we're free. But, that's not the case...... we're a looney nation, and so immature that we can't even tell the truth from a lie. Or care.......

That's the *REALLY* scary part......

Kanary
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #44
52. Apprehensive isn't maybe the word...I just don't think he normally gets
...pulled into things he considers to be "mass media" events...I think that all the hype initially made him just wait and watch what was happening...as he mentioned in his letter, he felt that it was a "historical event" and he wanted to make sure that he could answer and discuss it properly with friends, family and colleagues that wanted to know his opinion.

As you mentioned above, if it was just getting rid of the Bu$h admin, that would be great, but there is a bigger more complicated event taking place in the very fiber of our society that is a big threat to our existence and is how we got here in the first place where someone like Bu$h (or even for me here in CA - getting Ahnuld as Governator) that is at play. The United States is an out of control hormonal teenager in the league of Nations and if anyone is familiar with teenagers and what drives them, that is scary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. I think you're being generous..... about 2 years old is more like it......
There are some segments of the population who are acting like the teenagers you describe, but a lot are no more advanced than the average 2 year-old. It's why I don't think a whole lot of rational discussion is even possible.

I'm very glad you responded. I understand, now that you've clarified, being hesitant because it's a mass-media thing. I can really relate to that. I've been hesitant for other reasons, but one can't say that on DU without risking a blistering, so I just keep it to myself. I was wondering if his reasons were somewhat similar to mine, is why I asked.

He's right about a "historical event". I'd *love* to be able to pick his brain about the societal aspect of it. I don't even see anyway to get a handle on it: any place to begin.

What I see is a bunch of people who are so addicted to sports, that they see all of life, including politics, as one more game in which to "kick butt". There's an election coming up? Great, go "kick their butts". Doesn't matter if you use smears and lies, or knock the constitution on it's butt..... gotta win that game! There's a country we don't like? Hey, gather up our big guns, and shock and awe them with our might! It's the 'Murkin way. Never mind what our founders had in mind.... they were a bunch of "girlie men", right? I mean, look at all the frills they wore.... certainly weren't REAL men. THere are people below you on the economic ladder? Hey, cool! Here's how to *really* get your rocks off... make 'em really suffer, so you can look soooo cool and soooo superior by contrast! Yeah, that's the ticket! Kick their butts real good, and when they all end up in the street, then you can sneer and yell as you drive by in your hummer.

Yeah, ya gotta love this country........ gak.

Or, look at the European countries in contrast, and realize just how impoverished in spirit we truly are.

Kanary
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
32. Best review I've read to date.
Consider it nominated. I hope others do the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Digit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
34. Very candid review
Excellent
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
36. I wish I had such an insightful professor when I was in college.
Edited on Tue Jul-20-04 07:35 PM by merh
Good for him, to enjoy his retirement, but gosh our society is poorer for his retirement as he does not share his insights with students. Thank you for sharing them with us. Thank you for letting your professor teach this forum. What a wonderful review and perspective. I never looked at the film the way he did, but I will the next time I see it, my eyes will be open to the deeper messages.

You are lucky to have such a thoughtful father-in-law. If his son is as gifted, you are a lucky lady indeed.

Tell the professor that he has touched many with his words and insight. I have nominated this for the front page, but that doesn't seem to be enough.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
40. Kick!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
42. Sharp thinking and terrific writing ... I'm proud of him and I'm not ...
... even related.

Definitely front page material. Thanks for sharing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
43. Superb letter!! I'm going to send it along, with your permission,
to a family member of mine...I can delete names if that would be helpful? This is just an excellent summary.

Salute! Pachamama's Father-n-Law!!:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
45. Brilliant analysis!
"It was documentary to the extent that real people were involved, real time, real words and wounds. I would call it counter-propaganda. In an age of mass culture and mass media, you have to fight fire with fire. The population is swamped by the administration with lies, distortions and propaganda. I need only cite the President's landing on the aircraft carrier, his strutting out in military fashion (like dictators we know of from our earlier selves) and boastfully claiming victory to an audience captive to their Commander-in-chief. I was enraged when I first saw the speech as it was delivered, and I was enraged again yesterday when Moore replayed parts of it for us.

I wish he would call in to C-Span......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
47. Best critique of F911
that I have read. MM does counter propoganda very well!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pluvious Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
48. Thank you for sharing, I hope enuf listen to make a difference
"Redefining the role of the United States from enablers to keep the peace to enablers to keep the peace from peacekeepers is going to be an assignment."
-Shrub (New York Times Interview, Jan. 14, 2001)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Your welcome....Welcome by the way to the DU!
Wow...2 posts since July 11th and you cared to share one with me on my Father-in-law's review! Clearly your using your posts carefully and thoughtfully, so that's a huge compliment! :toast: Thanks!

Love your quote above from Shrub...Gawd, how scary....I often think they are all made up, because how could one individual be so stupid and spew such stupid things from his mouth, then I realize he just lets his brain flow and they come stumbling out.... :scared:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gauguin57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
50. Fabulous!
You really should send it to Michael.

Your father-in-law's comment about the Iraqi woman screaming as if she were in a Greek tragedy ... Wow ... that comment gave me chills. That woman, crying out to God, asking God to help her, asking God to BURN OUR HOUSES as we had here, was probably the most moving moment in the film for me (knowing what was done to that woman and her family was done in MY NAME).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
54. Kick for Pops!
Good for you Pop-in-law of Pachamama! My dad is your age, a retired prof., had a similar experience attending F911.

:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
55. Fantastic letter! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
56. Thanks for posting
Terrific review - deserves a wide audience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
58. You are so lucky
I would give my right arm to have my kids exposed to that kind of person on a regular basis (we live in TX, and well...) And to hear his son is a chip off the old block? Pachamama, saying you married well is an understatement!

Thank you so very much for sharing this... after reading the swill from Isikoff and his ilk, calling this refreshing is like calling the ocean damp.

:toast: to Pachamama's Dad-in-law.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. DO TELL
Edited on Wed Jul-21-04 02:07 PM by Karenina
if you have his permission, about his reaction to this thread!
GOOOOO DAD!!! :loveya: (I lost mine a L-O-N-G time ago and just want to give your FIL the BIGGEST HUG AND KISS!!!)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. When I talk to him next, I'll ask him to let me know his reaction & if I
..can post further thoughts by him...I'm sure he'll blush a bit and chuckle about all the feedback..

Yeah, I'm pretty lucky to have married into that family...good people...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC