GOP's already ready to use GOP convention protestors to their advantage

[Bombtrack]

I have a very strong contention based on both logic and feeling about
the probability of NY protests helping Bush way more than it could ever help us

I just saw a Bush spokesman on Hardball and he let slip something about the national democrats coordinating with the Protestors in NY. A Kerry spokesman quickly refuted that and said that they have done no coordination with any protestors and the Bush-guy just sat there with a smile on his face.

I am just dreading this. People should know that either in 72 Nixon people set up a big plan(that was uncovered years later) about putting plants into the protests at the GOP Miami convention to cause chaos that could be spun to the right's advantage associating anti-Nixon people with Radicals and what not. The plan was scrapped at the last minute but only because they were so far ahead in the polls.

With NY being the site of 9-11 and the threat of terrorism and maximum security and everything. The protests just seem like a perfect storm for the right-wing attack machine to use to their advantage, with plants or without. I see the potential cost/benefit to be stacked way in the favor of the GOP for how much they could get out of people causing chaos or leading to the increased stress on the city and municipal employees and security, compared to what Kerry and democrats have to gain. I see people posting here all the time about how much protests will knock peoples socks off or something to that degree. I've yet to hear anyone explain what it will accomplish. It will show people Bush is unpopular in the Northeast in general and NYC in particular? Does anyone think people are not aware of that already?

We should do the counterconvention thing. With a concert and speakers. Somewhere outside of NYC. In Jersey or something. But anything like the anti-war protests and people blocking traffic and some people causing chaos inside the city is just going to be gold for the right-wing echo chamber in my opinion.

[mermaid]

1. I Agree

A better response would be dead silence.

We oughta have, instead, a concert or something, like at the Meadowlands, or something, in Jersey...proceeds to benefit Kerry/Edwards campaign.

that way, we can send a message, loud and clear. And help Kerry/Edwards at the same time.

No one who hates Bush is gonna get anywhere NEAR the RNC Convention. They will set up First Amendment Zones."

I don't put it past them to even go so far as to create a miniature terror attack, and blame it on the protesters....or blame the protesters for the fact that the cops couldn't get to the site of the attack fast enough.

These people are SEVERE Machiavellian motherfuckers. Protesting is gonna play right into their hands.

We can do better.

[pearl]

4. This is true

It is brutal political warfare, I think a quiet concert/vigil would
be the MLK, Gandhi way. A powerful message.

[G_j]

11. you might want to look a little further

into the "MLK, Gandhi way" In general, adhering to strickly non-violent dicipline they marched where they weren't wanted.

I am not saying that should be what happens at the RNC, but it is good to remember what Gandhi and King were about.

[bklyncowgirl]

30. Non Violent protest

I realize that it may not be possible but wouldn't it be great if the majority of the protesters took care that the image they project was one that Middle America could identify with.

The Abortion protest in DC earlier this year is a good example. Hundreds of thousands of people of all races coming together to voice their opposition in a peaceful yet powerful way.

Bottom line, Don't give the bastards anything to work with.

[bryant69]

2. Some Counter Arguments

I don't know if you should plan strategy around how Republicans will react--they will automatically put the worst spin on whatever we do. If we show up they will call us disruptors, if we don't show up they will call us cowards.

It could backfire; Mayor Bloomberg doesn't like protestors much, and there are planned counter-protests. But I also understand the idea that we need to express our disagreement with this convention at this place at this time.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Wapsie B]

3. A bigger statement

would be made by having no protest at all in the streets of NYC. Have everyone desert the streets. Focus your energies elsewhere. I agree, the gop is gonna be ready with an army of plants ready to make things turn ugly real fast. Remember now, they're protecting a weak unelected resident. All a protest (riot) will do is scare fence-sitters back into the gop camp.

[JDPriestly]

6. I agree that demonstrations are out of place this year.

The demonstrations are a childish idea. Kerry is doing well. We don't need to make a commotion at the Repub convention. It will just draw attention to it and create sympathy for Repubs. It would be very easy for agitators to incite violence once a lot of people are together.

Maybe it is naive, but the Golden Rule applies here. Do we want mobs of Repubs a the Democratic Convention? Of course not.

If people want to demonstrate, they should do it in their own communities and leave New York to the New Yorkers.

The less news about the Repub convention, the better.

[SoCalDem]

5. I wish everyone would leave the puppets and signs at home

A million people wearing black...standing silently, would say more..

Maybe all carrying a bell.. "Do not ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee "

[JDPriestly]

8. We should encourage Kerry to openly discourage demonstrations

in New York. They can only work against us.

[calico1]

7. I agree. The GOP is ruthless and totally without

any integrity or honor. They will stoop to anything and stop at nothing, especially if they are behind in the polls. I do hope the protesters stay organized, cool headed and do not let themselves get drawn into any violence. With the media on the Republicans side you know how it will play. Hope the organizers are prepared for what the Republicans can and will do and are prepared on how to handle it.

[Eric J in MN]

9. I agree. The protests will only be used against the Democrats.

Better to talk to undecided voters you know about voting for the Democrats.

[Cat Atomic]

10. They're going to paint protesters as terrorists either way.

Remember that WTO protest group that was shut down a few years ago because they had the "makings for bombs" in their headquarters? It later turned out to be the makings for MOLOTOV COCKTAILS. In other words, some booze and a rag.

[Imperialism Inc.]

12. I'll be there.

With my sis and her new husband who are moving to New York. Delaying the convention to get as close to 9/11 as possible and same with the site of the convention is just sick and I won't stand by quietly and watch them disgrace those people who died.

[G_j]

13. well now we know how easy it is to get some people

to not exercise their constitutional rights to dissent and free assembly.

tell a lie about them

hmmmm...

[Eric J in MN]

15. Public protests are ordinarily to raise awareness of an issue, but

eveyone already knows that there is opposition to Bush.

Swing voters hate protestors.

Prostests will only hurt Kerry.

[G_j]

18. so are you canceling the protests?

or just doing what you can to keep others home?

[mermaid]

27. Whoever Suggested That We NOT Express Dissent??

I am only suggesting there are better, more constructive ways to express it, which will better serve our cause.

Causing mayhem in the streets of NYC is NOT going to get us anywhere. It's only gonna piss people off...protestors getting in the way of traffic...protestors blamed for violence incited by plants...protestors blamed for inability of first responders to respond adequately to a "miniature terror attack" that I don't put it past Republicans to create.

If we instead go with the concert idea...and the money raised goes to the Kerry/Edwards campaign...we get our message out, we financially help our cause...and we negate the possibility of being blamed for the dirty tricks we KNOW the GOP are not above pulling.

[Cha]

14. Here are the peaceful plans to protest the

repub convention in NYC..
snips~
But as disgusted as he is at everything from Bush’s environmental policies to the war in Iraq, Neubauer, bright-eyed and smiling, doesn’t sound mad—in fact, he’s pumped. “The general vibe in America is that being out in the streets is something that happened in the sixties—that now it’s just people who have tattoos and dreadlocks and piercings,” says Neubauer, whose own dreads are pulled back neatly. “But this amazing community has been alive and serious for a long time now. Maybe that story will be told, probably ten or twenty years from now, when everyone’s legendary heroes.”


The anti-Bush nation preparing to overwhelm the convention is not of one mind (they’re leftists, after all). Most are angrily optimistic. Some worry that protests will be too obedient; others that the television cameras will focus on the freaks who will make red-state viewers sneer. And beyond the organized, there is the specter of the disorganized—those who might harbor more violent ambitions and would never deign to visit a meeting like this. Even among orderly activists, there remains the possibility that nasty exchanges with the NYPD or pro-Bush agitators could incite and divide the crowd, panicking some and endangering everyone. There is no way to predict what will happen when hundreds of thousands of riled-up protesters

But for now and in this room, the protesters share a decidedly sunny goal. They want to demonstrate to America that their liberal, diverse, urbane, never-sleeping, sometime-bohemian, Wall-Street-and-new-Times-Square-notwithstanding city is definitely not Bush country. And on these grounds, they will almost certainly succeed. Whether that symbolic victory will accomplish anything—change a voter’s mind or, dare they even say it, tip the election to the Democrats—well, that’s another matter entirely.


Like Che Guevara t-shirts, mass demonstrations—the most traditional tactic in the radical repertoire—are back in style, despite Bush’s shrugging them off as “focus groups.” Organizers of the recent abortion-rights march on Washington claim they gathered 1.15 million people for the largest march in American history. There’s still no better way for activist groups to demonstrate the depth and scope of popular objection—so there will be massive rallies and marches at the RNC.end snips~

Much more on the protest plans..
http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/politics/national/2004race/n_10376/

[Eric J in MN]

16. Policemen disguised as protestors will makes sure it's not peaceful (nt)

nt

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

20. Doesn't matter.

We're not protesting to win an election.

WE'RE PROTESTING TO SHOW THESE MOTHERFUCKERS THAT *WE* HAVE THE POWER OF NUMBERS, AND THAT WE *ARE* GOING TO FIGHT THEM TOOTH AND NAIL. We will NOT be beaten by ourselves. This needs to be done whether it loses the election for us or not.

Besides, I hear it's going to be a beautiful day for a walk.

[Guaranteed]

21. I want these assholes to come away from that convention scared shitless.

And you know what? They're going to be.

[enki23]

22. yeah right

the protests will happen. your post a DU will not change that. nothing in the world, in fact, could change that now, short of an engineered catastrophe that dwarfs even 9-11.

just to make sure we understand each other: they're going to happen.

given that they will happen, it is in our interest to make them as large as we possibly can. there will almost certainly be some violence, somewhere, and the media will cover the violence far more than the peaceful protesters. there's nothing we can do about that either. all we can do is be as big as we possibly can, so that even if the media *does* play it as a purely violent event, at least it will be a goddamned BIG violent event. we need to force them to show as many peaceful protesters as possible, to counter the inevitable images of tear gas and beatings. and anyway, those can sometimes work to our advantage too.

we need these events. people need these kinds of connections, need to know there are a lot of us who feel this way. we on the left are too fucking disconnected, and these events are almost all we've got. we have to use them. it ain't perfect, but it's our forte. direct action is one of, if not the most potent weapon in our meager arsenal.

but that's just me.

[Mr_Spock]

25. No, it's not just you. A lot of us are ready to get together and show

some unity against the bloodthirsty mass-murderer in the WH.

[Yupster]

23. If you were the GOP

wouldn't you try to use the protests to your advantage?

I know I would.

[ConsAreLiars]

24. As the Fundicons would say: "Go away, shut up, vanish"

Yep. Picket lines give unions bad publicity. Organizing just makes the owners less generous. Sit-ins are unlawful and unfair to shopkeepers. Street marches turn off commuters. Confronting evil just makes them more vicious. Gay pride events are counter-productive. Just go have a tea party in the Hamptons.

</sarcasm>

[Bombtrack]

26. I have no problems with protests that aren't going to clearly help the

protested way more than it could ever help Kerry.

[Bombtrack]

28. bump

[tinanator]

32. thats hilarious

I guess I wont look for you?

[tom_paine]

29. But the problem with dealing with a Totalitarian Media like Bush Sub-Media

means that the results would be the same, we are attacked, we are smeared, we are lied about and enough shouters all shout the lies in unison that it usually gets laundered into "truth".

They will do the same no matter what. They would infiltrate, plant, and subvert because it is in their nature since long before they Treasoned in 1980 (October Surprise), 1986 (Iran-Contra, which culminated the relationship begun in October Surprise), 1972-3 (Watergate -- Bush Lite), 1968 (sabotaging Paris Peace Talks), and so many more.

Back to the footsoldier level, in 1972 Luci the Bat admitted to mole-ing into the McGovern campaign.

With the Bushevik/Bolshevik/Nazi/Totalitarian penchant for lying and spying, do you really think this isn't going on today? With the defunct and Orwellian nature of our law enforcement and "justice" system now almost completely shut down regarding Bushevik crimes, provided they are non-violent, do you not think they have now done worse?

Now that they have gotten away, AGAIN, scot-free with plundering the Democratic Senate Judiciary documents, do you think they will be MORE emboldened or less?

But I am getting away from the point. The right to massively protest is more important that what the Bushevik Party-Loyal Sub-Media will do to us, which they will do ANYWAY!

[donhakman]

31. reminds me of Monty Pythons Holy Grail

"See the violence inherent in the system"

[Lerkfish]

33. The protestors will be damned by the GOP either way, so therefore....

might as well PROTEST. If they are going to get the blame, might as well do that which they are going to get blamed for.

I"m with some of the other posters: although I abhor violence in protests, I am dubious about having a sit in ELSEWHERE. Its bad enough the Bushigans have "free speech zones", no reason for protestors to impose one of their own on their own ranks!!!

Numbers, numbers. If there could be over 100,000 people marching against the GOP, what a great page one photo and lead story item that would be. So what if the GOP plants some bad apples? If you surround bad apples with ENOUGH good apples they won't matter.

NUMBERS!!!!NUMBERS!!!!

[randr]

34. I have had the sense that the repugs would be

using the protests to their advantage for a long time.
They may go as far as to stage and event that will paint the protesters as terrorists in the publics eye.
I hope the organizers are considering a way to counter this possibility. A way to project the disgust of this administration must be found that portrays the protesters for what they represent--true American Values.

[RhodaGrits]

35. I live in NY. I believe I have the right to free speech and assembly.

I deeply resent these warmongers choosing NY for the site of their convention after 9/11. They hoped to celebrate on the graves of victims. I am almost 50 yrs old and haven't protested since the days of Nixon and Vietnam but I will be out with my "9/11 does not equal Iraq" t-shirt. I will protest and it has nothing to do with support for Kerry - it is about speaking publicly my opposition.

I've already told my brother-the-cop to lend me his gas mask if he thinks I'm going to need it :-) I will make peaceful protest, I do not believe in violence. But I am going to exercise my rights.