The personal = the political. Discuss.

[lapislzi]

Coming as I do from a country where the personal absolutely equals the political (South Africa), I am curious as to how many of us equate personal choices and life circumstances with political ramifications.

For instance:

--The car you drive. Or whether you drive a car at all. For some it's not a choice. That's political too.
--Your food choices in the grocery store. Or whether you shop in a grocery store at all. Again, whether choices even exist for you is an expression of your political reality.
--Your entertainment choices. Your newspaper choices. Or whether you can even read. I say they're all political. What do you say?

I still believe this. I believe every choice I make in life expresses a political reality, both for me and for everyone affected by said choice.

What say you all?

[Union Thug]

1. Agreed.

I try to give business to union shops over non union shops, shop at small market rather than megamarts, etc. You are soooo right, the political and the 'personal' are indistinguishable.

[onebigbadwulf]

2. Like all of life's answers - sorta

unless you're driving a hybrid/electric/geo, I'm not sure a car relates to politics.

unless you keep fox news on all day, I'm not sure TV programs relate to politics.

unless you make an active point to ban or support certain things, I don't think that every day decisions relate to politics - let alone ALL your decisions.

Can you honestly say that chosing dial soap over dove is really about your personal political beliefs? It may do that for some in a John Locke sense of property and libertarianism or pro-capitalist supply and demand pricing model, but not likely.

Interesting philosophy. You could call it the "politic-effect" and have Ashton Kutcher star in the movie,

[lapislzi]

3. I'm taking an extreme position on purpose

for the sake of promoting discussion...although you could argue that my choice of Pears Soap is political, albeit unintentionally so. I choose Pears Soap over American brands because I like it, but it pays to be aware of the political ramifications of your choices.

I choose fresh broccoli over frozen, and from local growers whenever I can.

[porphyrian]

4. Waves in a Bucket

The argument you make can also be made of any factor of our paradigm that we single out, however, it is an oversimplification of the reality. As we are part of the finite system of which politics is also a part, we cannot isolate ourselves from any part of the system, such as politics, without withdrawing from the system entirely. Also, any changes made to any part of the system effects the whole in some way, though sometimes indirectly. Thus, as members of a political system, we are always affected by politics, and our actions always affect politics, no matter how greatly or slightly.

Many people ignore this "waves in a bucket" way of thinking when a child commits suicide. People are quick to blame video games, or the music the child listened to, or drugs, or, sometimes, even the parents. However, it is not one of these factors which led to the child committing suicide, it is all of them, as well as the nearly-infinite number of other factors we haven't listed, which led to the trajedy. However, you can't pass laws criminalizing everything, so what gets attacked is whatever the least amount of voters are likely to support, or the thing that all the golf buddies can't stand, or anyone doing that thing that I warned him about, dammit...

So, consciously or unconsciously, we are all constantly affected by politics as we are constantly affecting politics, no matter how indirectly.

[lapislzi]

6. Are you sure it's a bucket?

Again, just throwing philosophical ideas out there for the sake of discussion. What makes it necessarily a finite system? The waves go back on themselves to a nearly-infinite degree--expressed as a hyperbolic curve, I think (the second law of thermodynamics being in operation in the political as well as the physical sphere).

I like this. Physics meets politics.

[porphyrian]

10. It was just an oversimplified metaphor...

...to help illustrate my point.

The system is finite because we are finite, and we are the origin of the system - unless it is possible that our social structures can exist without us. Don't misunderstand me, we are part of more than one system, some of which overlap. There are also any number of systems of which we are not a part. In my post, I was only talking about the system in which we operate with politics as a social construct, though I may not have made this clear.

[Cats Against Frist]

5. Well

I agree -- and I recently decided to purchase a new Apple computer, rather than the cheapo Dell that would cost me about $500 less than Apple's cheapest model. The reason is that Dell Computer outsources a lot of jobs and gives buku to the GOP.

I try to make as many consumer choices, as responsibly as I can -- I do believe in it, and the "perfect consumer with perfect knowledge" is the part of the libertarian pipe dream that I can get on board with.

I generally try to buy from farmers' markets and festivals, or co-op food stores, when things are in season. I try to buy fairly traded gifts and coffee. I try to buy almost everything used, just because I don't want to support anything. The other thing I try to do is when I HAVE to buy something new, generally, I try to shop at stores where "consumer goods go to die." In other words, "Big Lots," or the fruit & vegetable stand at Aldi, or the dollar stores. I figure purchasing the stuff that no one wants, cuts back on production of too much new. I try not to shop at normal chain stores, or food places that are franchised or nation-wide.

If I have to buy some electronic or appliance, instead of buying from American companies that outsource, I buy foreign products -- just for kind of a "fuck you."

I try to outright belittle people who wear name-brand clothing. There is no vitriol too strong for someone who would pay $70 for a pair of jeans made in Bangledesh.

But, they can't all be this way. I can't afford a hybrid car, so I'm on gas. I'm also still on the grid -- and probably always will be, due to computing needs. I am also a big fan of air conditioning. I dye my hair. I smoke.

I try to make my health a political choice (except for the smoking), I guess. Be healthy, and you have fewer doctors' visits, etc. Non-processed, whole foods are cheaper to produce, don't usually have as much packaging and are better for you. I try to bring my grocery and produce bags to the store, so I don't have to use their bags.

My child's toys, books and programming are usually political choices -- though I can't stop people from buying him irresponsible gifts, because I don't want to hurt their feelings. People will give him clothes that they picked up at Wal-Mart, a lot, or stuff like that.

Also, I'm not rich enough to make all the responsible choices that I'd like to. I am thrifty, but my family lives on a lower salary, in modest surroundings (by choice) so we have time to persue our interest in the arts and spend a lot of time together. If we had more money, though -- I could afford to be really responsible and buy the recycled toilet paper all the time.

I think these things are important -- because as much as we like to bitch and moan about corporations, we're the enablers. We buy their products, watch the stupid TV shows that are merely vehicles for them to brainwash us with advertising, we work for them, we fall into their consumer trip traps (New!!! and Improved!!!), and waste our bodies with their chemicals and genetically modified hydrogenated white flower white sugar bullshit, support the mass-produced pop culture tripe they try to pass off as art.

So I do agree with libertarians on this point -- if we were responsible consumers, it would make a hell of a lot of difference.

As far as other non-consumer choices -- I suppose I give some money to the literary arts and to poor children -- those are political choices.

The people I associate myself with, and my education are political choices, I suppose. I generally have highly educated, artistic friends, but I've spent a large part of my adult life working with families through home intervention and mentoring.

Another thing -- bear with me -- that I try to do, as a result of politics is not to fall into the totalitarian trap mindset of everything having to be black or white. Studies have shown that conservatives are far more likely to use splitting and projecting -- and though I am an emotional and sometimes sensational person, I've really tried NOT to be like them. For a long time, I was anti-right totalitarian, where everything had to be my way. Now, I try to see things as an integrated whole, sensibly. But I don't always succeed -- I am human. If we all did more of this critical, gray-area kind of thinking, we'd be better off, too.

[Beware the Beast Man]

11. I also agree that I'm not rich enough

To make the right consumer choices on a political level. Other than choosing Target over Wally World to do basic shopping, there's not a whole lot more I'm able to do given my financial situation.

[shockingelk]

7. What do you mean by "political"?

If you mean I buy what I think is good for the Democratic Party in the grocery store, I would say "no".

If instead you mean most every action I take impacts how I fit into society, and effects everyone else, certainly.

[merh]

8. Some choices that I would love to make for political reasons

I cannot make because of personal reasons. I cannot afford them.

"--The car you drive. Or whether you drive a car at all. For some it's not a choice. That's political too."

I'd love to own a hybrid car - can't afford it, have to keep my used, clunker in top running condition and pray that the auto gods don't call it home any time soon.


"--Your food choices in the grocery store. Or whether you shop in a grocery store at all. Again, whether choices even exist for you is an expression of your political reality."

Small grocers are rare. The ones I do know about, I try to use, but the food they sell is ethinic and not always what I need. Also their prices are high and I tend to have to shop at discount, wholesale places to make my dollars stretch.

"--Your entertainment choices. Your newspaper choices. Or whether you can even read. I say they're all political. What do you say?"

For political reasons and out of sheer disgust for their yellow journalistic ways and failures to comport to the basic rules of journalism, I do not buy the newspapers. If I want to read the news, I read on line. I watch local programing for weather and basic cable provides some other news outlets, but they are very annoying. Fortunately I do get Jon Stewart, a comedian that is the only honest journalist on t.v. (imho)

[lapislzi]

9. That's my point

The choices you CAN'T make are political in nature too. For the record, I'd also love to drive a hybrid car, but they're waaaay out of my price range.

I know I'm oversimplifying the issue here, but my real curiosity is how much people are aware of the political ramifications of their choices. A poster above described the "waves in a bucket" effect. I like that.