Electoral college and futility for me and mine here in a red state? Help?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

Let me see if I have something straight here: I was told today by someone who claims to be an independent (actually doesn't vote at all, apparently) that, because of the electoral college, it doesn't matter HOW many people I convince to vote for Kerry on November 2. Texas' electoral voters (is that the right term?) will give Texas to bush anyway, so anyone I win over to voting for Kerry here, makes no difference anyway.

Is that right?

If so, can I just SAY HOW FRUSTRATED THAT MAKES ME?????

But then, the knee-jerk reaction to that feeling is, I think, part of what contributes to states staying one color or the other: why bother? So I am going to keep fighting, but I'd really love some clarification on that issue. DOES it make a difference?

(Really wish I'd listened more in 10th grade American history. Or in 2000. Sorry.)

[unblock]

1. "electors" is the proper term

[SoCalDem]

2. It DOES count in the "popular" vote.. As the popular vote vs electoral

gets more divergent, things will eventually change.. If people get discouraged and quit voting, it makes things harder to change.

[TexasProgresive]

9. Be better to change our state rules

It’s the winner takes all that really sticks in my craw. I would like to abolish this system but it would take an amendment to the constitution which is really difficult to achieve. But it looks to me that changes could be made at the state level which would make it district by district and statewide for 2. According to this site that is what they do in Nebraska. This would eliminate the winner of the state popular vote taking all the electoral college votes.

http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecworks.htm

Whichever party slate wins the most popular votes in the State becomes that State's Electors-so that, in effect, whichever presidential ticket gets the most popular votes in a State wins all the Electors of that State. .


Pertinent parts from the constitution:
Article II

Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves. And they shall make a list of all the persons voted for, and of the number of votes for each; which list they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be counted. The person having the greatest number of votes shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such majority, and have an equal number of votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by ballot one of them for President; and if no person have a majority, then from the five highest on the list the said House shall in like manner choose the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by States, the representation from each state having one vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. In every case, after the choice of the President, the person having the greatest number of votes of the electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal votes, the Senate shall choose from them by ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the time of choosing the electors, and the day on which they shall give their votes; which day shall be the same throughout the United States.

Amendment XII

The electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--the person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

[TexasProgresive]

3. A possible strategy-

I posted this earlier- I really think that it would be a good strategy for Dems in red states to vote inBloc for Badnarik. If we could make a big blip in the polls for this guy it would drive Rove over the edge.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=699445&mesg_id=699605&page=

It may sound strange but,
I think all Texan Democrats ought to campaign, promote and vote for Badnarik. Our vote for Kerry is likely to be nil in this state, but if we could show real movement in the polls for this guy it would put the Bush campaign in a tizzy. They would have to reallocate resources and money to what they thought was a safe place. This would be turning the pugs strategy with Nader in California during the 2000 elections. I think I'm going to get a Badnarik sticker for my truck and start talking this guy up. I suggest the same thing for other southern state dems. A vote for Badnarik in the red states may not be a vote for Kerry but it will sting the smug smirks off of the Pugs faces.

[Wabbajack]

7. Won't work

Reason: I'm sure they have people reading this message board. :p

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Moonbeam_Starlight]

10. No thanks

no offense, but I voted Libertarian in 2000 and I ain't doing it again. I did it on the same theory you are talking about, not because I am Libertarian.

No, I'm voting Dem.

[funkybutt]

13. NO WAY DUDE!

I'm voting Kerry/Edwards all the way! and yes it sounds strange!

[Name removed]

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[funkybutt]

17. I Get The Impression You're Voting for Nader

might as well vote for bush...screw the polls!

[Name removed]

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[tritsofme]

5. In this election Texas will go for bush

all 34 electoral votes will go for Bush.

But registering new voters builds a base for the future.

[funkybutt]

19. What do you think about Louisiana? n/t

[tritsofme]

29. I don't think Louisiana will break for a "Massachussetts Liberal"

but a lot of people think it could be one of the surprises in the election.

[funkybutt]

30. Dear God I hope so

We've been doing so much work here and I know quite a few people who are republican "switchers" for this election. I think I'll cry if LA doesn't go kerry...but as long as he wins the big shabang, I'll get over it!

[LoZoccolo]

6. Plant some seeds.

Sure it might take four elections, but chip away, leave a legacy or something. Or at least make it harder for Republicans to use bullshit to get elected.

[Name removed]

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[LoZoccolo]

14. I know a libertarian...

...and he's a little man!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

15. See that's what I'm hoping to do

the other night at a meetup for a state representative who's running for office, a woman came and deputized 15 people to be voter registrars. She said she has NEVER deputized as many people as she has so far in 2004 and she's been doing this for FIFTY YEARS (she's in her 80s).

I've registered sooooo many people to vote. People all over this state are doing it. I remember when Dean was in it, man we were on FIRE here and we stayed mobilized.

I think Gore was 39% of the popular vote here. SO if we can get it to where Kerry gets say, 45-50% of the popular vote here, man. Man, that's good.

So I think I'll keep chipping away. I don't buy into this "it doesn't matter anyway" bull. It might be true for NOW, but I'm gonna make sure it isn't true for long.

And a few years from now, I hope rethugs here are saying to each other, "ah what does it matter? Texas is gonna go blue anyway, man."

Ah. Sweet music to my ears.

[funkybutt]

22. here here

i'm in Louisiana and I'm it DOES matter anyway!

[Longhorn]

11. There are other races, too!

Every member of Congress is up for re-election, and in Texas, every member of the House of Representatives.

If Texas is ever to become a two-party state again, we need to rebuild the Democratic Party, one election at a time! When Democrats turn out to vote, it encourages more and more quality Democratic candidates to run for office and more and more people to contribute to Democratic campaigns. So keep up the good work!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

16. I was just at a meetup the other night

in support of my Democratic candidate for state rep. We've had the same rethug guy for like 15 YEARS. It's long past time for him to go on home.

And I am supporting Martin Frost, even though he won't represent me anymore, but is moving to another district.

[TexasProgresive]

20. I will certainly vote for every dem on my ballot

My general rule is never vote for a repug, If there is no dem running against the pug vote green first and lib second. If no one is running against the pug -no vote. I really would like to write in myself but they make it so hard to do write ins. I think it would be good if we all voted for ourselves when a repugnant is running unopposed then there would be a count against him/her.

That said, and I know that the party spends money based partly on the presidential race, I still think it would be good to vote in Bloc for Badnarik. If enough energy went to this guy it could suck all the oxygen out of the Du(m)ya campaign in this state. We wouldn't be blue but we'd be a nasty shade of purple bruising on their head.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

28. I've never voted for a republican in my LIFE

not even for dog catcher. When a repug is the only one running, I don't vote in that race. If it's a repug and a green, I vote for the green, etc.

The Dems I vote for every single time when they are on the ticket. But I am taking it further now and actually going out, supporting them, working on their campaigns, enlisting the help of others. If I want to see this happen, I have to help WORK to make it happen!!!

[TeacherCreature]

18. Do not listen to that argument and do not vote independent

Vote and get as many people to vote democratic party as possible? The down ticket candidates are depending on you. So are the other democratic party voters.
You will make the party even weaker if you vote third party. If we are ever going to get rid of the maniac republicans we have to give the democratic party all the support possible. Yes, bush will probably take all of TX electors, however you could help take back the congress if democrats turn out in large numbers.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

21. I totally agree

in fact, when I wrote the original post, I wasn't thinking third party at ALL. It's not even on my radar this time around. I voted for Perot in 92, missed 96 (but wanted Clinton to win) and voted Libertarian in 2000 (but wanted Gore to win).

Never ever ever again.

I am voting Dem. I just wanted to know a bit more about the whole electors thing. I am now going to just keep getting more Kerry voters here to get that popular vote up!!!

Thanks to everyone who posted information! Very helpful as usual!!!

[Name removed]

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[funkybutt]

25. what makes you so trusting of polls? n/t

[Name removed]

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[liveoaktx]

27. I see no reason to assume that- read this....

http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/index.php?ntid=7079&ntpid=5

That is true of every state. So why did the cancellations really occur?Because Republican Party bosses did not want Bush to be embarrassed by evidence of Republican opposition.

As it turns out, the concern was well founded. In several states that held Republican primaries this year, significant numbers of GOP voters rejected Bush.

In New Hampshire, for instance, 22 percent of citizens who selected Republican presidential primary ballots voted for someone other than Bush. (More than 3,000 New Hampshire Republican primary voters wrote in the name of Democrat John Kerry.) In Rhode Island, more than 15 percent of Republican primary voters rejected Bush. In Idaho and Oklahoma, more than 10 percent of Republicans cast Anyone-But-Bush votes, while almost 10 percent did so in Massachusetts. Even in the president's home state of Texas, more than 50,000 Republican primary voters refused to back Bush.

******
I see no reason to try to second guess the election before it is over. Have you seen "Last Man Standing" from POV? It makes the point that every vote countes and it ain't over till its over.