I just blew a fundie out of the water

[notadmblnd]

We were having a discussion on a little sight that I play games on. We started out talking about F911 and what we thought about the little chimp.. the conversation turned to religion when I said I would vote for the devil himself rather than vote for bush.. anyway.. we went on to discuss my non-belief in god.. This fundie was all self righteous telling me how you have to believe in god and all you need to do to be saved is believe and dedicate your life to him. then she brought up the rapture and told another person she would see him there if god chose her.. I asked her.. all she had to do was believe and dedicate her life as she claimed to have done.. why would she have any doubt that god would chose her? I never got an answer.. suddenly her husband arrived home and she had to leave.. I'm just wondering why she shouldn't answer that?

[Manix]

1. ..there is no logic to their beliefs.....they try not to think it through.

[izzie]

44. Logic and faith are like ying/yang

I think the men that were starting this country were from the enlightenment thinking. Faith base states did not work then or will not now. I am not sure how to get that into a mind like he was talking to.Madding to my way of thinking.

[physioex]

2. Good Work....

:toast:

[CaTeacher]

3. congrats on besting the fundie!

I used to be tolerant of religion, now I am starting to think that we should just make it illegal to espouse a religion. Or at least Christianity. Christians believe the craziest things. Like the one you were talking to was obviously looking forward to the end of the world! How sick is that?

I especially hate how they let the Zionists control them on the Isreal issue.

[markses]

6. let's see

"tolerant" - check
"illegal to espouse religion" - check
"Christianity crazy" - check
"Zionists" - check

You've managed to include every bad version of Left politics buzzwords, at least as they are concocted and disseminated by the right. And a "California" "teacher," to boot! My my. You forgot the way that the real end of the world will come through "global warming."

:eyes:

[CaTeacher]

9. sorry to have offended you--but it

gets me irrate whenever someone mentions the "rapture" it is just a personal thing I suppose. And it is based on some rather bad experiences with this kind of thing.

Generally I am very tolerant of Christians--but "rapture" and the "millenium" really set me off.

And I am entitled to that. Sorry if that offends you, but-I am what I am--we all get upset by different things.

[TeacherCreature]

51. thank you so much for being tolerant of me

lol

[Bill McBlueState]

53. standard rapture post

Just remember, very few Christians believe in the rapture, millenial crapola. The idea of the rapture was invented by some British math professor around 1900. Certain TV preachers make money on that sort of thing, but almost none of the established denominations have anything specific to say about the "end-times" or whatever.

[notadmblnd]

55. thats what I always thought too..

and this was the first person who claimed to be a Christian that actually brought it up. thats one of the reasons why my post was titled as it was. She was the first real fundamentalist that I ever ran across. I know the entire subject was made up by man not any god and as each new century begins people decide to the god is coming thing and that the end is near. I do believe in a few years this religious fervor will abate. After the bible says that no-one will be able to predict when the end will come not even those who claim to have dedicated their lives to god. In the mean time.. I chose to dedicate my life to my family.. they are the ones that need me... they are the ones whose existence I can prove.

[Solomon]

60. I beg to differ with you. It may not be official doctrine, but most of

em believe it. Makes me want to puke. They do hope for the end of the world. Sit there slobbering over the prospect. My family is like that, and they are in a mainstream denomination. Every time somebody writes a book about the armageddon and the end of the world, their heads are stuck in it. In fact, it's the only shit they'll read besides the Bible.

My take on it is that they don't want to take the old coffin trip like everybody else. That's why they pray for the end of the world. They think they won't die. They'll just be "taken up".

[Bill McBlueState]

61. fundamentalist infiltration

What you're seeing is how fundamentalist ideas are infiltrating the mainline denominations. Pastors have very little to say about controversial issues, for fear of splitting their church. So people like your family pick up the "Left Behind" books because

-they're entertaining in a pulp-lit kind of way
-the books make them feel good about their decisions
-and the other thing you said, they help people believe that maybe they won't have to die

And the pastors are afraid to say, "These books don't reflect what we believe as a church." So people remain ignorant and adopt beliefs like the rapture.

The churches aren't teaching discernment. Or anything about modern theology at all. Most mainline pastors probably don't believe in the virgin birth, for instance, but they'll never say that in a sermon.

[Solomon]

64. So true. You hit the nail on the head. The Left Behind books are all

over the place with my family. I tried reading them just to see what was in them and man!, it's all spoonfed formula. I might have got through the first book, but I got the picture and couldn't read anymore. Talk about dragging a story out!

[TexasBushwhacker]

69. I tried, I really did

to read the first Left Behind book, but they are so HORRIBLY written! If they were at least well written, I'd just read it like I would read any fiction, but geez, I'd rather take a bullet in the head.

An old boyfriend of mine is a fireman and was a paramedic for many years. He's been with hundreds of critically ill and injured people. When I told him off my mom passing away peacefully in January of cancer, he said he was glad she had gone peacefully "because most people don't". He told me that he could count on one hand the number of people that were actually looking forward to seeing Jesus when the time came. He said everyone else that was conscious was scared shitless. He said that lots of people will talk the talk, but when they're bleeding to death and they know they aren't going to make it, most don't "know" what's coming next and they're afraid.

I was raised in a very liberal religious environment (Unitarian) and have always taken the deaths of friends and family very hard. I don't have the comfort of believing that my loved ones have gone to a "better place". I can't say I KNOW that there isn't a heaven because I don't know that either. I guess I'll find out when I die. According to my friend though, and he's probably been with more people that were conscious yet dying than most doctors, almost all of us have some anxiety when we die.

I guess the thing that bothers me about the people that seem to be looking forward to the Rapture is that if they have anxiety about death, it's about someone dying without being "saved". That non-Christians are suffering and dying (and that we are killing) them, doesn't seem to bother them. That we're sending all these people to hell, in their minds, is no problem. If they're over 12 years old, they've had their chance to become Christians, because as one friend of mine said, "Christianity is everywhere". Well, that might be so, but it's a lot more common in East Texas than it is in Baghdad.

[RetroLounge]

63. It gets me irate whenever someone who claims

to be a teacher misspells irate...

RL

[CaTeacher]

65. Well--even though I am a teacher, English is not my first

language so I feel that I do quite well. (I am not an English teacher BTW.)

My English is quite good, and I feel that I am on a par with native speakers. Besides, on the boards, I often write quickly and do not bother to check over things carefully or use spell-check.

After all--this is not a test--this is not for a grade.

However, I have noticed that the grammar and spelling police are rampant here-and are eager to jump on people who are not perfectionists about their posts. (I have been "caught" in mistakes twice---and it has been pointed out in a rather nasty way each time).

I don't have much respect for people who do this kind of thing, there is no point to criticize people for a small mistake on a message board. And keep in mind that some of us are NOT native speakers and we do the best that we can. I am much kinder than you--even in my classroom, when I correct a student, I try to do it in a way that helps--not hurts. I am not stupid--but I also think that there is more to life than being puffed up about your intelligence.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CaTeacher]

13. also sorry about the double post--

my computer froze.

[markses]

17. I'm not offended

I'm amused.

Kinda like when a car salesman is trying to sell you a heap of junk. It's amusing.

[notadmblnd]

20. or kinda like when a fundie is trying

to sell you a religion?

[markses]

23. Equally amusing, to be sure

Whenever somebody is selling rather obvious bullshit, I get the urge to giggle. Why, did you think I was gonna be on the side of the fundies? Do you think "CATeacher" is NOT on the side of the fundies? I've got a great little 1990 Nissan Sentra for you. It's got 300,000 miles, but she runs like a beauty.

[notadmblnd]

24. nope, I was just giving you another example

peace!

[Mike Niendorff]

25. lol -- you beat me to it, markses :)

Coming soon: "gee, isn't it good we're all athiests and communists?"


MDN

[notadmblnd]

11. they were going on talking about all you had to do was ask

god for what you need and he'll give it to you.. I told them that I had asked god not to let my husband die and she told me it was because I didn't believe. I told her that I had been raised Southern Baptist and that I hadn't told her when I ceased to believe in god. I told here my husband believed in god and he still died. I asked if he must just not have been Christian enough. She went on to say that god didn't sanction the removal of body parts form one person to save another. I told her that I never saw anything in the bible about it at all. Then she went on to say that maybe god just wanted to end his suffering here on earth.. then I asked.. but god wanted his family to suffer? I just can't believe in a benevolent jealous being that actually wants people to suffer through and after life.

[TeacherCreature]

29. That is a really detailed conversation for a chat room

I am impressed. Usually people just say "age sex?"

[notadmblnd]

33. It really was a rare occasion

but as I said.. We started off talking about MM F911. When I brought up voting for the devil, they brought up god and it went from there. I don't think the 4 of us that engaged in the conversation played much Poppit at all. But we didn't have a big fight and we said good night at the end. I was just surprised that she wouldn't/couldn't answer my question. Can you?

[Zen Democrat]

31. Hey, we're all going to die, it's just a matter of timing when we go.

I wouldn't blame a Supreme Being for death, unless you want to blame a Supreme Being for birth. This isn't the end here. We're all just visiting.

[Guaranteed]

32. I think it ought to be illegal to talk about outlawing religion.

Actually, I think it IS illegal to outlaw religion- although I guess you can still discuss it. That's the great thing about the 1ST AMENDMENT.

[Columbia]

35. Wow, what a tolerant, progressive view...

[BattyDem]

4. You asked a question based upon common sense ...

Fundies are not allowed to question authority or use common sense because it would require that they think for themselves. :eyes:

[Philostopher]

5. Yeah, it's not just the fundies.

There are plenty of 'meat and potatoes' protestant sects who also teach you that you have to break your ass all your life to even deserve heaven, and no matter what you do, you might not get there. I got tired of thinking that way half my life ago and walked. Too many cognitive dissonances for me.

[TeacherCreature]

15. Which "sects" are those?

BTW, we refer to ourselves as denominations.

[Philostopher]

46. It was the Church of Christ.

A Midwestern sect, that doesn't strictly interpret some verse buried somewhere in the bible to say that there shouldn't be a piano or an organ played in services (the ones in Florida, apparently, are the same except for being non-instrumental).

That, I guess, is what I meant about sects -- there are several within that particular denomination who have different interpretations about what's appropriate and not. Some are more charismatic than others, some are more scholarly than others. Those that make a different interpretation are more than happy to tell their congregations that all the others are wrong. It really is a more sectarian than denominational issue, since there are five or six interpretations of 'appropriateness' that fall just under that one Protestant denomination.

I really have to credit Cincinnati Bible College with the revolution within that denomination. I'm not ignorant about the fact that an individual minister, and especially his education (and the Church of Christ doesn't refer to its minsters as anything but ministers, because they pretend that they don't 'lift the preacher above the congregation' by calling him something like 'reverend' or 'pastor') plays a large role in the general attitude of the church. This guy came in with his evangelical guns blazing, spewing raptures about Reagan (a divorced lapsed Catholic) and bashing Jimmy Carter (a flawed man, but a devout Baptist who obviously knew his bible) because Reagan was a Republican and Carter was a Democrat, and as we all know, Republicans are more sanctified and holy than Democrats, regardless of their behavior.

Well, that's what CBC says, so that's what C of C ministers learned to say. Those who didn't learn it bailed out -- I saw several youth ministers (in the Church of Christ, youth ministers 'intern' at churches, working under the regular ministers) become so frustrated with this stuff that they went into social work or moved to other denominations entirely because they couldn't hang with that message. Silly men (and they all were men), they thought everybody deserved to learn about the bible and have a shot at salvation, no matter who they voted for.

Believe me, I'm not speaking from ignorance here, though I admit to a little bitterness -- my personal experience with CBC and what it taught, and with the ministers it's produced the last 25 years, have been quite deep, and I was 20 when I finally gave up on it, so I'd studied and heard considerably more than primary-color kids' stories about my former religion before I elected to leave it. It isn't about bashing religion in general, here -- what I'm saying is, some evangelical churches became religious Darwinists, in part because the Republicans saw an opportunity to cut out the noise from those of us who weren't ever going to be convinced to vote for them. They drove my father out, too, and my brother attends a more liberal church than we did as kids.

I really just meant to make the point that fundamentalists aren't the only ones who present a conundrum for people who don't necessarily believe you have to wear a hair shirt all your life whether you believe you're going to win the heaven lotto or not. My experience is personal, admittedly, and the minister who ran me out of the church may be an anomaly, but I can't help but doubt it -- I had a long, hard look at CBC when I was in high school, and considering an English degree at several different schools, and I realized I didn't want that for myself. I couldn't think the way they expected me to think. Or not think, as the case may be.

[TeacherCreature]

49. well then that is not "plenty of sects" is it?

I am sorry for the experience that you had. But your statement was false wasn't it? The church and minister you are talking about sound rather fundamentalist to me.

Most mainline protestant denominations (and also the baptists) teach that you are forgiven your sins because Jesus sacrificed himself. Nothing you can do, can buy you more mercy or grace than what Christ has already given you. No hair shirt is required.

[gratuitous]

7. Naw, you shot a fish in a barrel

Next time, just boil it down for your fundy friend: "So, you're saying that God is telling me He wants to be my best friend?"

"Yes! Dedicate your life to God!"

"And if I don't . . . ?"

"Well, I don't like to think about it, but you'd go to Hell."

"So, if I don't agree to be God's best friend, he'll torture me for all eternity? Sounds like your God is kind of a psycho to me. No thanks."

[REVOLT823]

8. Watched Larry King Live tonight

Guest was Bill Maher, and he really ripped into the fundies and Bush's foreign policy based on his religion, also brought up the fact that all the fundies want the Jews in Jerusalem for the end times, because the script says that that is where they are supposed to be...........so they can all die (remember Mr. King is Jewish). Was brutal and refreshing, especially on a major network like CNN

[notadmblnd]

14. I saw that too..

it's replaying right now and I'm watching it again.

[CaTeacher]

18. Yes--I saw that too--it was on my mind

which was why I made the comment on it above. First time I have been attacked here.

I did not realize this topic was taboo. Until tonight, I had only had pleasant experiences here. Now I am not sure if this is where I want to be--since I was lamblasted for an innocent opinion.

Can anyone recommend any friendlier Democratic sites in case I decide to go elsewhere?

[notadmblnd]

21. you'll definately grow a spine here

or learn to avoid subject that could cause discourse. anyway. Hello and welcome.

[CaTeacher]

66. Revolt823, Thank you for

being kind to me! I appreciate it!

[lottie244]

22. Yes,

Demsonline.com

[CaTeacher]

30. Thanks for the welcome and the site recommendation.

I will try both--I will try to be a little less sensitive and I will also check out some other sites.

Step one--for my spine:
I feel very strongly about the Zionist issue (Zionist does not mean all Jewish people--when I use it, I am refering to the Israeli settlers--and the support that they are getting from the Christians in this country). This is a source of much grief to me--I have a history of living and working in the middle east, and I am very pro-Palestinian rights.

It is OK if people disagree with my opinions--I am willing to argue that point and I welcome other points of view. But it is demoralizing to feel that my position is unwelcome on a "Democratic" board.

I am willing to shout it to the rooftops--I am against the settlers in the West Bank--(Zionists)--I do not like the way the Christians in this country have supported that movement with MY tax $$$. And if I get banned from this site for this--well then this was never the right place for me. Oh--and yes--this issue has started to sour me on Christianity--in spite of the many wonderful Christians that I know and love.

[notadmblnd]

38. They are particularly touchy about the Isreal/zionist thing.

honestly.. I share some of your thoughts on that subject. I don't go there but there is a forum here for the Isreal/Palistine issue. I don't know how deep it gets but you could try there.

[CaTeacher]

40. Thanks. I guess that may explain why people are touchy

(as they have a separate forum to discuss these topics). Also, it is a sensitive subject. And I admit that I was not very tactful, I was a little ticked by the things that were said to you and imagining myself in your place.

You are a good person to handle it better than I would have done. I am very sorry about the things you have gone through. I am not sure if I believe in God or not, but if there is a God-why would God cause people to suffer? It does not make any sense to me.

Some of that stuff just presses my buttons. I am actually a very nice person though! Thanks for being nice to me.

Peace

[TeacherCreature]

54. for your spine

Step one--for my spine:
I feel very strongly about the Zionist issue (Zionist does not mean all Jewish people--when I use it, I am refering to the Israeli settlers--and the support that they are getting from the Christians in this country). This is a source of much grief to me--I have a history of living and working in the middle east, and I am very pro-Palestinian rights.


I am also pro-palestine rights and it was my church that opened my eyes. So when you say Christians you might want to qualify that.

It is OK if people disagree with my opinions--I am willing to argue that point and I welcome other points of view. But it is demoralizing to feel that my position is unwelcome on a "Democratic" board.


Please understand that this is a Democratic board. Being a Democrat and a christian are not mutually exclusive. Until Skinner says that liberal Christians are not welcome expect to be called on any prejuded or inaccurate statement you make, especially broad sweeping generalizations. No one has attacked you, if you think they have stick around, it gets much tougher than this around here..

I am willing to shout it to the rooftops--I am against the settlers in the West Bank--(Zionists)--I do not like the way the Christians in this country have supported that movement with MY tax $$$. And if I get banned from this site for this--well then this was never the right place for me. Oh--and yes--this issue has started to sour me on Christianity--in spite of the many wonderful Christians that I know and love.



"Christians" have not supported Zionist settlers with your tax dollars. Your government has done that. The people in your government don't do it because they may or may not be Christians, they do it because it is profitable."

PS.......Welcome to DU!

[notadmblnd]

59. well yes they do itbe cause it is profitable too..

they have more than one item on their agenda. I do think that there are some christians that support Isreal because they are trying to facilitate the "rapture". It has been my experience and I have spent a lot of time talking to people about religion (not just reading about them). No matter who I've talked to whether they claimed to be Lutheran, Baptist, Catholic, Jehova's Witnesses, Mormans or the 7th Day Adventists and Muslims... I've always come away with the impression that the these Christians really do blame and dislike the Jews. In other words..and this is just my opinion...Christians sects play nice with the Jews because they think it will facilitate the return of Christ.

The Jews and Christians are both using each other and many innocents die horribly in the process. And it hurts me to think, that these people.. both Christians and Jews .. can claim that this is what their God wants. If that is the kind of god people worship....that is an evil, vain arrogant being..I want no part of it.

[TeacherCreature]

52. Grow some thicker skin, that's my advice.

You weren't attacked. Now you know that there are people on the left who are also religious and often Christian. The subject's not taboo, just don't expect not to be challenged.

[CaTeacher]

56. Thanks, but I already knew that. My father is a "bible believing"

Christian and a VERY liberal democrat.

My opinions are based on my experiences (BAD) nothing more. If I had of have different experiences, I am sure I would feel differently. Perhaps I would have even become a "fundie" myself as "markses" claims that I am. BTW, markses--everytime that side of the family talks to me they ask me--"when are you going to give your life to Jesus?" So--yes, they irritate me to the point of anger. But, I love them. So I am conflicted. I am not a religion hater.

But--it angers me to no end that there are people rooting for the end of the world--and that they want to use the middle eastern situation to bring that about (in their twisted minds). And yes--these sickos do exist--even though I imagine that their numbers are very small.

[REVOLT823]

62. Don't sweat in CATeacher,

Everyone is entitiled to their own opinions here, let him go somewhere else if he has a problem, I saw nothing untoward about what you said, and his response is why I avoid "religious" people like the plague.

[CaTeacher]

68. Thanks.

I appreciate that.

[Swamp Rat]

12. When you talk to her again, tell her that "God" says that she will NOT be

on the "up" escalator; she's going down. Tell her to divorce her prudish husband and live life to the fullest because I'm going to send her to Hell to be the concubine of a thousand incubi with thorn-covered penises. If she disavows me and becomes a sex goddess, I might change my mind.

[notadmblnd]

16. now thats funny..

thanks swamp rat.. I needed a laugh.

[Must_B_Free]

19. well, who could hold their breath that long anyway?

[countmyvote4real]

26. Because she (fundies) have no doubts or the capacity to think

or question what they believe. They call it Faith.

Some of us might feel just as strongly about Karma, which also implies there are consequences to personal actions even if they're not quite as detailed as the fundie script.

Speaking of details, I've read the Bible and it doesn't specify a preference for any particular political party. In fact, the book of Revelations containing the references to the "rapture," also warns of false prophets. That's the real challenge.

It's not whether your "God" will accept you. It's more about whether you have the "real God's" interpretation (if you're going to be exclusive about it) of those murky redirects of translations of translations. And for those that cling to those literal ideas in both Testaments, they are quite selective in what they choose to uphold. Next time you see her, ask about her position on stoning.

[pansypoo53219]

27. jeez, i am a lutheran(northern midwest kind)

and that fundie really sounds wack. if you believe you get 'raptured'.
and dammit, i am NOT READY to be in the rapture. i do not mind dying before it happens.
i blame that left behind book shit.

[Guaranteed]

28. Wow, you're a genius.

I'm not even sure what your point was.

I don't agree with that woman. I don't believe in any rapture crap, and I don't believe in any Bible written by fallible men. But, most of all, I don't believe that a just god would create us, put us into this crazy world, and then, of all things, JUDGE us by our behavior in it. That is why I have faith, that is why I believe in God, and that's why I believe that EVERYONE is going to Heaven (yes, even Hitler).

You can do better than your perpetual cynicism. Open your mind just a little bit, you'll see. The world is ultimately a really good place. It's just up to us to do the right things with it. When we die, Heaven puts things in the ultimate perspective. You can either look back at the things you did with satisfaction, or you can laugh at your ignorance with humility. It's a beautiful thing.

[countmyvote4real]

34. I like your POV, BGL.

My earlier post was based on my fundie upbringing and subsequent rebellion. It didn't go as far as your enlightenment.

Thank you for that.

[notadmblnd]

36. My point was..

that she explained what was required as stated in her bible and that she had met those requirements. But she still had doubts that her god would chose her when the rapture came. I was trying to point out the poor logic to her arguement.

Now I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I am a genius.. I did not claim to be. I also did not claim that the world was not a good place and I've never been to heaven to determine what perspective it would leave me with.

edit for spelling

[Guaranteed]

43. I'm sorry,

I just see a lot of anti-religious and, really, just negative stuff on this board, and like you're saying, I am touchy about it. I don't like being attacked just because I have faith.

For the record, like I said before, I'm not religious at all. Jesus, to me, was at best a "good example," really only through his teachings (his actions were highly questionable). The Bible is garbage. I don't trust what is written by people, especially when they say they've been speaking with God and have a tendency to demonize others.

Anyway...yeah. I just wanted to let you know that not all of us who profess our faith are so ignorant as that woman you were speaking to.

[drhilarius]

37. A good notion, however...

There are a few things that seem problematic.

1. What incentive is a heaven if someone like Hitler can enter it?

2. The notion of a one way ticket to heaven seems like it would lead some to inaction. Let's face it, the world, for the most part, is pretty terrible. Most people, if they KNEW they would get into heaven, would either off themselves or just wait to die. NO heaven is the only incentive to evince change in this life, the only life we have.

not trying to start a raging theological flame war, I'm just coming down from some serious existential contemplation (my legacy, non-existence, etc.) so thoughts like these have been racing through my mind.

[Guaranteed]

39. Alright

1) There's no incentive. That's the point. Incentive to get into Heaven would mean that God is judging, when he put us in the situation(s) that we're in, in the first place. That's hardly justice. That's just the whole point. I don't think that a just god would do that. No just god judges people that are simply reacting to the misery/utopia that they've been placed into.

2) As far as I know, I'm one of very few people pushing the idea that everyone is going to Heaven, so it's not a commonplace idea, and hardly likely to change the moral character of the populace as a whole. I think that my point is that what happens in this world doesn't matter that much. Admittedly, I don't like that idea, and I certainly don't live by it. I take things way too seriously, actually, and I wish other people would care about what happens here much more than they seem to. In any case, I think that God's playing something of a joke on us- in order for Heaven to mean something, there has to be another world by which to give perspective (this one), and while He (I only say "He" for the sake of brevity) doesn't let on, the relief is unbelievable when we leave here. What happened in our lives on Earth takes on a whole new meaning when seen from the perspective of infinite euphoria. The "right" actions bring on a sense of satisfaction, as I said before, and the wrong ones bring on a sort of light-hearted embarassment that I describe as laughable humility- in the light of infinite euphoria.

Heaven is a Euphoria, but we retain our memories....This world really just doesn't matter anymore with regard to what we come into when we die. They're just memories to be perused by the much, much wiser, as an adult remembers their own childhood.

[drhilarius]

41. Thanks for clarifying.

I myself have always been fond of the God-trickster figure. I'm (if it isn't obvious) an atheist, but my God would be like yours, a trickster of sorts. The trick as I see it, however, is that all this heaven stuff was merely a metaphor. God said "do these things and get into heaven." Well, if we were to do what he had commanded ( let's say ten commandments + beatitudes), then we would in fact be in heaven-here on earth. On the surface it may seem somewhat cynical, but really I think I'm a hopeless idealist who actually believes we can make a serious change on earth when we try (we are, after all, ousting il duce this November).

[Guaranteed]

42. That's a good one, too.

I think we should go with yours, and fall back on mine.

:pals:

[Atman]

48. Hogwash

Be a good person. Don't screw over others. Do your best to help your neighbor. Think.

And when you are on your death bed, go peacefully, content in the knowledge that you were the best person you knew how to be and you left good in your wake. Then let the worms eat you and return you to the very ground which sustained your life all those years.

Floating ghosts don't enter into it, imo. That just means you're bringing a level of "fear" into the equation. "I'd better be good or else I won't get to sit in the Front Row!" Why can't you just be good because you are good? Do you have to be rewarded for everything in order for your life to have meaning?

[More Than A Feeling]

45. Question: How deep into religion is it acceptable to get here?

I recently converted to Christianity after growing up atheist, and so naturally I am very interested in the religion based threads here. However, I am hesitant to get involved, because it is a sensitive subject for many people here. Any guidance from veterans of DU would be appreciated.

[vetwife]

47. I am a chrisitan but I got some real guts..Freedom of Religion

No one will make you unwanted although you may feel they are ridiculing you. I don't but you have no idea how tough I can be but I don't flaunt or try to convert, I respect all religions. Everyone has a right to Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech..Just don't mandate it. Don't flame and don't cause anyone to get upset. This keep in mind is a political discussion board. I actually set aside a place called http://groups.msn.com/PrayforKerry/whatsnew
No one flamed me. Just be respectful of all faiths. Religion....is a weapon that can be dangerous. I personally don't believe in Religion persay. I believe in Faith. Religion causes problems. Even God was against organized religion. Be careful. I am also a minister's daughter, and my Dad 80 plus years is a Die hard Democrat !

[TeacherCreature]

67. I think anything goes as long as you respect the opinions of others

and don't preach at them.

[kskiska]

50. My daughter had occasion to attend a Laotian (Buddhist) funeral

There's a sizeable Laotian community in this Southern town. During the course of the service my daughter & son-in-law briefly chatted with the funeral director, who wasted no time in asking if they were churchgoers and whether they've been saved. After being deflected fro that line of questioning, he said of the Laotians, "You can't talk to these people."

[redqueen]

57. That rapture crap was made up in the 1800's

fundie nutcases!

[HEyHEY]

58. Just a lot of "HAHAHAHAHAHAHA"