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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 09:56 AM
Original message
" No defense for Sandy Berger "
http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion//index.php?ntid=7211&ntpid=3

Editorial: No defense for Sandy Berger

An editorial
July 23, 2004


Democrats in Congress, particularly Democrats who oppose the Bush administration's misguided war with Iraq, make a huge mistake when they attempt to defend Sandy Berger, who served as former President Bill Clinton's national security adviser and who now stands accused of stealing and destroying classified materials on terrorism.


Berger has for many years been an atrocious player in American politics. He tried to get former Clinton to launch a war with Iraq in the late 1990s, using "evidence" every bit as flimsy as that employed by the Bush administration in 2003. He has been a Democratic apologist for some of the Bush administration's worst abuses. And, as a senior adviser to John Kerry's presidential campaign, he pressured the presumptive Democratic nominee to echo the Bush administration line on maintaining the occupation of Iraq.

In 2003, when Berger was preparing to testify before the national commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, he spent roughly 30 hours reviewing classified materials in a secure reading room. Berger was seen placing documents in a leather portfolio and stuffing papers in his jacket and pants.

Berger claims his removal of the documents, which may have contained material harmful to his own reputation, was an "honest mistake." Yet, when National Archives officials demanded that Berger return the documents and paperwork, he produced only some of them and then claimed to have "inadvertently" destroyed the rest. Berger's actions were shocking. And his defenses do not sound credible.
..more..
--------------------------

http://www.alternet.org/election04/19292/

Tip-Toeing on the Platform

By John Nichols, The Nation. Posted July 23, 2004.


The platform that delegates to the Democratic convention are expected to approve is a tepid document largely defined by Kerry's fear of being identified as a liberal.


Backers of Congressional Progressive Caucus co-chair Dennis Kucinich's presidential bid joined antiwar activists in a last-ditch attempt to press the platform committee to improve the document in mid-July, at a final "dot the i's, cross the t's" session in Hollywood, Florida.

<snip>
In a measure of the commendable determination of the Kerry campaign to keep Democrats in the fold, Kucinich backers were treated respectfully – especially after they delivered petitions signed by more than 200,000 supporters of an antiwar plank. But in the end they were ceded only a few words to take back to the faithful. Added to a section on getting NATO allies to contribute more military forces to the Iraq endeavor was a line that reads, "The U.S. will be able to reduce its military presence in Iraq, and we intend to do this when appropriate so that the military support needed by a sovereign Iraqi government will no longer be seen as the direct continuation of an American military presence." It was a small victory that allowed one of the two Kucinich backers on the 186-member committee, Minnesotan John Sherman, to suggest that he could go back to "our folks" – antiwar activists – and argue for Kerry. But even that was too much for Sandy Berger, the Clinton Administration National Security Adviser who was monitoring the platform session for the Kerry campaign. "We didn't give up anything," he claimed.
<snip>

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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe the Captial Times should remember that....
it was Sandy Berger who prevented the Millenium Attacks before they spout off crap like this.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. Berger is not my favorite human
If you believe Scott Ritter, it was Berger, working with Richard Butler, who organized a deliberate screwing of the UNSCOM inspections in 1998 by having Butler bulldoze through the Sensitive Site Modalities and precipitate a false crisis that gave Butler the excuse to withdraw the inspectors. This was the birth of the spin that Saddam 'kicked the inspectors out.'

That was Sandy's work. It's worth bearing in mind.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
3.  silver lining?
however the Republicans tried to use this, I am not unhappy that he resigned from the Kerry campaign.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. I've been thinking along those lines
Edited on Fri Jul-23-04 12:04 PM by redqueen
That was really stupid of him to do... and the little barb towards the leftists... might that help Nader?

Depressing.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. Reactionary politics makes for ridiculous circumstances
Berger screwed up. He screwed up pretty badly to be honest. And it wasn't like he was much of an asset to begin with. Our best approach is to say, he screwed up and we can't be associated with incompetence, but this is not a national security matter so back off, you stupid Republicans. Instead, the initial reaction was to circle the wagons, which - unfortunately - puts us in the position of defending someone we don't want to defend.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I Had Not Heard Anything Negative about Him Before This
I had knee-jerk jumped to defend a Dem against being whacked, but if his role is what is said in this editorial, well then, Zeus-bless-Him-and-Goodbye.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. He is not a bad guy
He is really just a very typical Clinton appointee. Clinton's crew was filled with extremely brilliant, extremely talented people who sometimes seemed to think that their brilliance and talent gave them carte blanche to go outside rules they found inconvenient.

I mean, he took copies of a report that he himself helped to create. Is that a national crisis? Of course not. But he wasn't permitted to do it and did it anyway for whatever reason.

Berger did some very good things (his work on the planned Millenium attacks). But as Will said, he also played a little loose with the facts when he had an agenda, mainly because he felt that he would be right in the end.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Kick for Good Analysis
But if he was an early proto-NeoCon, s'long to him.
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peace4all Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. it is interesting
I also instinctively want go to the defense of anyone the GOP attacks and it seems they are trying to distort the facts of the case.
I suppose if a Bushie had done something similar we would find it suspicious.

Whatever the outcome, I don't think he was good for Kerry.
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. here goes drudge, again
DOCUMENTS SHOW BERGER NIXED ATTACKS ON BIN LADEN
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. What, is the mileage worn out on the "Kerry & Edwards are gay!" spinpoint?
Edited on Fri Jul-23-04 12:06 PM by redqueen
Drudge...

:eyes:
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Doesn't matter what the substance of the docs. was. They were COPIES.
The 9/11 Commission even had one or more of the ORIGINALS. The important memo has even been written about in a book.

Berger didn't take them to conceal their contents. Their contents were already well known. So that wasn't the purpose.

Could be he wanted to continue studying them at home.

It was a stupid thing to do, whether intentional or unintentional. But I remind Repubs and others when they start talking about Berger stuffing his socks and such....the facts are not publicly known yet. Berger admits to certain parts of the story, so we know he did it. We just don't know the details, so I'll reserve my judgment about the details until they are revealed by the investigation. And yes, he should be held accountable for whatever he did.

Now let's hear a Repub say that about Bush or Cheney - that they should be held accountable! (don't hold your breath)
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. Sandy Berger doesn't deserve defense.
He was complicit in the Clinton do nothing and prevent the UN from doing anything cabal regarding Rwanda. He also did his best to keep the US out of doing anything in East Timor.

He seems to be a political hack of the worst sort.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. Guilty till proven innocent.
Sorry, but that is wrong. What is with this picking battles now?

I have never paid attention to Sandy Berger, so I am not prejudging.

Are we going to do this with all the people they go after? Gee, maybe Wilson is a bad guy as well.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. his politics should be irrelevant
that really weakens this whole editorial.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I agree with that
it really should not have a bearing on his guilt or innocence and charges have not been brought against him.

But I admit I more or less subversively posted this in order to elicit discussion about Berger's politics.


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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I feel the same way about Berger
my main image of him is him traveling around with Albright and Cohen trying to muster support for attacking Iraq. It was repulsive, and it colored my view of Clinton as well.

But none of that has any bearing on this case, and I'm disturbed at the mentality shown by the Cap Times, which is usually very good.

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I did have second thoughts
the alternet article might have sufficed. :-)

thanks for your input
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. "Anatomy of a Smear" Brock. Media Matters.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. There is a point I don't see anyone
bringing out..apparently he was monitored by employees of the Archives because that's what they are supposed to do when sensitive material is being researched. I would guess he would have to sign for stuff and when it is returned, it would be checked and signed back in. How come they never mentioned anything about missing papers when the stuff was handed back over to the staff, and if monitors noticed anything out of the way, how come they didn't mention all the material wasn't there at the time? When working on hundreds of papers, it would be easy to mix them up and that is what the procedures are intended to prevent (as well as intentional mix-ups). I'm not excusing his actions, but the staff at the Archives were remiss in their jobs too.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. Update, Alberto GONZALEZ and Now OTHERS Knew
This is beginning to smell like Watergate to me. Could it be that there really IS going to be some big wingnut going down---CHEENEE, ROVE---and BERGER was their preemptive strike?


from party_line's LBN thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x704148

*******QUOTE*******

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7104-2004Jul22.html

... Former Clinton press secretary Joe Lockhart, who is serving as a spokesman for Berger during the controversy, said the expanding circle of officials who the White House acknowledges had knowledge of the criminal investigation heightens his suspicion about the timing of this week's disclosure that Berger is under investigation.

"This is the third day in a row that the story has changed," Lockhart said. "First they said they didn't know. Then they said the counsel's office was aware. Now today they acknowledge the NSC was aware. Did the political operation know? Did Karl Rove know? I think it's time for them to come clean, say what they knew, when they knew it, and what role if anything they had in leaking it."

********UNQUOTE*******
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. Also did McAuliffe really file for docs under FOIA or not?
Only saw it on Drudge. :shrug:
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MISSDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I read that Bill Clinton said
'on the way over here we were laughing about it' referring to the Sandy Berger flap. And 'you just have to know him to understand'. ???
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. Well, This Is a Kickable Topic n/t
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