Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Could you give me a page number, Condi? I think you're lying!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 11:45 AM
Original message
Could you give me a page number, Condi? I think you're lying!
Edited on Fri Jul-23-04 11:52 AM by shockingelk
Watch the shiny happy spin:

National security adviser Condoleezza Rice said Friday she agreed with the Sept. 11 commission's findings that the nation is safer nearly three years after the terrorist attacks, but it is not yet safe.

The the word "safer" only appears four times appears in the report. I haven't read it in it's entirety so it may somewhere say America is safer without using that specific word, but that's certainly not the impression I've gotten so far. And the thought doesn't jive with Commission Chairman Thomas Kean's statement when releasing the report, "Every expert with whom we spoke told us an attack of even greater magnitude is now possible and even probable. We do not have the luxury of time.''. Indeed, the Report recommends dozens of protections and strategies the government has failed to yet implement.

Here are the four times the word "safer" appears in the report:

We hope that the terrible losses chronicled in this report can create something positive - an America that is safer, stronger, and wiser. (Preface, xvi)
The Secret Service told us they were anxious to move the President to a safer location, but did not think it imperative for him to run out the door. (p 39)
Neither Israel nor the new Iraq will be safer if worldwide Islamist terrorism grows stronger. (p 377)

This is the part the spinmeisters seem to be latching on to and misrepresenting (p. 383):

In the nearly three years since 9/11, Americans have become better protected against terrorist attack. Some of the changes are due to government action, such as new precautions to protect aircraft. A portion can be attributed to the sheer scale of spending and effort. Publicity and the vigilance of ordinary Americans also make a difference.

But the President and other officials acknowledge that although Americans may be safer, they are not safe. Our report shows that the terrorists analyze defenses. They plan accordingly.

Firstly and least significantly, it doesn't read "America is safer", it reads Americans "may be safer".

Secondly, this appears as an introduction to a section recommending its meaning is"Bush acknowledges we may be safer, but terrorists plan around our protections and here's tons of stuff nobody, including the President, hasn't done."

In fact, the Report is subtly but clearly critical of major aspects of Bush's "War on Terrorism" - that the strategy is the proverbial hammer that makes everything look like a nail, (p. 363) (some emphasis added):

The first phase of our post-9/11 efforts rightly included military action to topple the Taliban and pursue al Qaeda. This work continues. But long-term success demands the use of all elements of national power: diplomacy, intelligence, covert action, law enforcement, economic policy, foreign aid, public diplomacy, and homeland defense. If we favor one tool while neglecting others, we leave ourselves vulnerable and weaken our national effort.

Certainly the strategy should include offensive operations to counter terrorism. Terrorists should no longer find safe haven where their organizations can grow and flourish. America’s strategy should be a coalition strategy, that includes Muslim nations as partners in its development and implementation.

Our effort should be accompanied by a preventive strategy that is as much, or more, political as it is military. The strategy must focus clearly on the Arab and Muslim world, in all its variety. Our strategy should also include defenses.


The report is also is (much less subtly) critical of the way the "enemy" in the "War on Terror" has been framed (p. 363),

What should Americans expect from their government in the struggle against Islamist terrorism? The goals seem unlimited: Defeat terrorism anywhere in the world. But Americans have also been told to expect the worst: An attack is probably coming; it may be terrible.

With such benchmarks, the justifications for action and spending seem limitless. Goals are good.Yet effective public policies also need concrete objectives. Agencies need to be able to measure success.

These measurements do not need to be quantitative: government cannot measure success in the ways that private firms can. But the targets should be specific enough so that reasonable observers—in the White House, the Congress, the media, or the general public - can judge whether or not the objectives have been attained.
Vague goals match an amorphous picture of the enemy. Al Qaeda and its affiliates are popularly described as being all over the world, adaptable, resilient, needing little higher-level organization, and capable of anything. The American people are thus given the picture of an omnipotent, unslayable hydra of destruction. This image lowers expectations for government effectiveness.

It should not lower them too far. Our report shows a determined and capable group of plotters. Yet the group was fragile, dependent on a few key personalities, and occasionally left vulnerable by the marginal, unstable people often attracted to such causes. The enemy made mistakes...


So we know Condi agrees with her own twisted interpretation of one sentence in the Report, but I'm wondering what she (and the rest of our government) thinks of the whole of the report. It will be interesting to see.

What's disappointing to see is the lunatic contingent at democraticunderground swallowing the spin hook line and sinker, seemingly because it doesn't say "Bush did it! He made it happen!" it's a whitewash for some. There are a few things I've been surprised seem absent from it, such as the wire transfers to the hijackers from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, but on the other hand, it doesn't mention Iraq in the context of the "war on terror".

edit:formatting
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. Great stuff
I'm sick of seeing people call this thing a whitewash. It isn't. This report is highly critical of government at all levels.

One thing they also clearly criticize is that the recommendations made by other agencies to make the US safer have been ignored sine 9/11 and that they reiterate many of these recommendations.

This is highly damaging to Bush's claim to be making Americans safe.

I'm reading this thing very slowly (I really want to digest as much as possible). So far the single most damaging thing to Bush I have come across was his inability to act when told of the attacks. His first reponse was to ask his advisors what he should say. For 30 minutes this was the sole concern he had. The Commander-In-Chief when told that America was under attack, sat back and worried about political spin and did not even attempt to contact the Pentagon. This is a total breakdown in leadership at the very highest level. If I were a family member of one of those who died at the Pentagon I would be absolutely beyond livid (as is I'm pretty damned livid anyways).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democrat_patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Do you have a page number
for that? I was wondering if they were going to cover *'s INaction that morning.

*: "Karl is that you? yeah listen we're being attacked. No not by the damn lefties - hijackers on planes. Isn't this great?! My numbers are gonna go through the roof. Should I be the sad reflective somber president, or the guns a-blazin' one? I agree - guns are good. Can I wear that cowboy gunbelt you got me for my birthday? How about just when I'm in the round room? Oh yeah, Oval Office. Did you see Friends last night? It was a hoot. Yeah, uh-huh. Ok. Yeah get me somethin' to say about these attacks when you get a moment. I saw a Danish with my name on it in the Teacher's lounge. Later"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I have the hard copy version
Page 39:
"Between 9:15 and 9:30, the staff was busy arranging a return to Washington, while the President consulted his senior advisors about his remarks. No one in the traveling party had any information during this time that other aircraft were hijacked or missing. Staff was in contact with the White House Situation Room, but as far as we could determine, no one with the President was in contact with the Pentagon. The focus was on the President's statement to the nation. The only decision made during this time was to return to Washington."

It goes on to say the motorcade left at 9:35 and arrived between 9:42 and 9:45 making 30 minutes where the President did nothing except come up with a statement (which we didn't hear for many hours anyways).

Emphasis is mine in both places.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democrat_patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Thanks!
eom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. p 35 ...
Is where it starts to explain what everybody else was trying to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democrat_patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Thanks!
eom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. you should get that published somewhere!
send it to David Cross, or somebody like that

Janeane would read that on the air, too

that's killer!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democrat_patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Thanks!

With *, this stuff writes itself....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I've just been jumping around in it
The part about what Bush was doing the first hour after the second plane hit is particularly damning as it immediately follows a description of everybody else in the government at least trying to get their act together. Bush was "projecting calm" to a couple dozen future voters, asking his handlers what to say, and as the Commander in Bunnypants couldn't make single decision other than being reluctant to go along with his handler's decision on where they decided to take him.

I was shocked to read the recommendation to improve intelligence databases ... I mean, THREE YEARS? I'd assumed they'd fixed that problem by now ... seems the BushCo acts like a corporation in all the wrong ways and few or none of the right ways. If a CEO doesn't make sure to make essential improvements to their data handling, the Board of Directors wouldn't even wait a year before throwing him out his ear ... Helen Thomas needs to ask Scotty something like "Is the President adverse to computer technology, because several years ago ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. preoccupation with Iraq
I've looked for that in parts of the report. I can't read alot online, it gives me a headache. Does it say anything about the Bushies preoccupation with Iraq? There are comments in 2001, like "Saddam and his ilk", showing that they thought Saddam was the "mastermind" behind al qaeda. There is just no evidence of that. That's a critical blunder on the part of this Administration and I haven't seen any discussion of that at all in the reporting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. still reading
Edited on Fri Jul-23-04 12:13 PM by Caution
haven't gotten to this yet. I'm reading this sucker cover to cover paying close attention to the End Notes (lots of material there!). Remember that this report is focused on the events of 9/11 and the causes of our failures to stop it. The whole Saddam thing is post 9/11 so I expect to see very little information related to the Iraq war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. NO it isn't
They made statements all through 2001 about Saddam when talking about terrorism. They linked it then which is a major reason they didn't focus on al qaeda or respond against Afghanistan on the Cole. If the Commission missed that, they missed the whole thing, as far as I'm concerned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. well i may not have gotten to it but ackerman did
http://www.tnr.com/blog/iraqd?pid=1831

They pretty much close the case on any kind of saddam/al-qaeda connections of any substance.

so there you go, once again this thing proves itself to NOT be a whitewash.

There is a lot off ammo here against Bush, don't dismiss it. read it and use it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Yes, particularly Wolfowitz
p 334: 10.3 “PHASE TWO”AND THE QUESTION OF IRAQ
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Thanks
I'll go read that section.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-23-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. I read it
Complete pass for Bush. He's such a leader, he had no plan at all to go after Iraq in Sept 2001, it just magically popped into his head 2 months later. Yeah, right. I agree with others around here. There may be some tidbits of truth in it, but overall it's a complete whitewash. 3 references to Rudman in the notes?? Ack, disgusting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-24-04 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. I'm not sure what you're expecting it to say
It describes what Bush did in the first hour after it was realized it was an attack and not accident: NOTHING TO PROTECT THE NATION!

As far as his plans to invade Iraq, that was not a subject to be examined, however it does report he ordered plans to occupy Iraqi oil fields a week after 9/11.

It seems you're wanting the report to be written so as to please you ... it's very damaging to Bush ... it authoritatively shows that the administration is lying when they said they had no intelligence indicating an attack in the US was impending.

Maybe think about it this way: Imagine Bush talking about a "post 9/11 world" in the debates. Kerry now will be able to say "The bipartisan commission to investigate the 9/11 attacks reveals that on August 6, a Presidential Daily Brief stated that the threat of al Qaeda was serious and current: that hijacking planes was something that they could do any day. It also shows that Richard Clarke, who the President chose to hold over from the previous administration made monumental efforts to make others in the administration act on the fact there were al Qaeda cells in the US. I would like to know what the difference is between a post and pre 9/11 world, for the President knew that al Qaeda was plotting within our borders before 9/11."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC