How is "Democrat Party" an insult? I'm not insulted by "Democrat"

[Bucky]

I've heard that clipping the suffix "ic" from the word "Democrat" is supposed to be an insult or trick or something. But how does this work? I don't think anyone is insulted by being called a Democrat, so why is it insulting or sly to say we're the "Democrat Party"?

I mean, sure, it's grammatically incorrect. But I live in Texas. I can hardly take umbrage about that.

[BlueEyedSon]

1. That's not its name. Should we call the other guys the "Republic Party"?

[abcdan]

7. Which is proper?

That's interesting, no one ever says "I'm a Democratic", of course we say, "I'm a Democrat". Is the former actually correct?

[TeacherCreature]

11. The legal name of my party is the DEMOCRATIC PARTY

Grammar has nothing to do with it.

[abcdan]

26. My question isn't about grammar.

I agree, our name is the "Democratic Party".

But we all refer to ourselves as "Democrats".


So is calling ourselves "Democrats" a misnomer? Should we say, "I'm a Democratic"? Or another example, "we Democratics like to post messages at DU and vote for candidates like John Kerry".

I'm not being sarcastic to make a point. I'm asking a question. Do we Democrats (or Democratics) have it wrong?

[UnityDem]

39. Uh, you're confusing me too.

The name of the party: Democratic Party
Members of the party are called: Democrats

analogy:
I live in a state called: Georgia
Citizen of my state are called: Georgians

Rush LImpballs started this whole thing as a slam years ago...saying that the democratic party is anything but democratic....that's when he vowed to start calling it the DEMOCRAT party....that became a right wing talking point and they now all use it.

[goclark]

22. Or the Repubic party?

[sadiesworld]

2. I must of missed that one.

(btw, I miss Wes too :( )

[CaTeacher]

3. I don't find it offensive either--

I just think the person is being lazy with their grammar. Hey--this is how the language evolves. I don't really see it as insulting. But, I guess if people are insulted, that is their perogative.

[TeacherCreature]

10. They do it on purpose and it is just one more hateful little change

language to control thinking. My voter ID says democratic party and until my party takes a vote to change it they can all go fuck themselves.

They are trying to separate the idea of democracy from the party. They are doing it because the lame meme that we are not a democracy but a republic failed when * went all over the world talking about bringing Democracy to the "heathens".

[UdoKier]

19. Yup. "Democratic" is full of positive connotations...

They have already made "liberal" into something bad, and "democrat" synonymous with liberal. Our party IS based on making the country more democratic, theirs based on making it less so. Rush loooves to explain how our country is NOT a democracy but a republic...

We should insist on "democratic party" -a democratic party is what it is.

A "democrat party" is a party of just democrats. Sounds less inclusive, doesn't it?

[Sterling]

54. You are a teacher?

Home school or the real thing? Your attitude towards grammer sucks.

[KurtNYC]

4. They love semantics

RW shot callers really put a lot of stock in word choices and semantics. My theory is they don't like the contrast that is created by the word. To be against the Democratic party would seem to make one against democracy or un-democratic. That's just too close to the truth for them.

[Philostopher]

5. Wingnuts like to use 'Democrat' instead of 'Democratic'

for several reasons -- that's why people here object.

For one, they seem to think (I gather this from what others have posted here from places like Free Republic) that by using the grammatically correct adjective, it imbues those on the left side of the aisle with too much respect. Which is to say, how dare we commies compare ourselves to the democratic principles that at least somewhat inspired our founders.

Not only that, but they can capitalize the 'R' into 'DemocRat' and have their little jollies that way.

The reason people get stick about it around here is because it's something right-wingers have started doing in recent years, not because DUers are all grammar nannies (some of us are, but that's not the only reason DUers might object to the use of 'Democrat' when 'Democratic' is the correct usage, in other words).

[tom_paine]

12. Well said! And thank you for the excellent explanation...

[jjmalonejr]

6. It's like someone purposely mispronouncing your name...

...when they know damn well how to say it.

Dittoheads and the like use the term "Democrat Party" as a sort of insider's code-worded term of derision.

It's not insulting in and of itself, but they say it wrong on purpose. Sure, some people use it because they hear other dittoheads use it and they don't know any better. But when you hear someone use it, it's because they either intend to say it wrong to annoy Democrats, or they've been hanging out with dittoheads too long.

Remember how George Bush the Elder used to mispronounce Saddam Hussein's name all the time. That wasn't the same thing as Bush the Younger's mispronunciations, which are usually the result of ignorance. GHWB knew what he was doing. He mispronounced the name on purpose and meant to be both dismissive and insulting. (Not that I mind dismissing and insulting Saddam Hussein, but it's the same technique)

[Bucky]

13. Okay, so wingnuts are just being juvenile Rethugs when they name call

[jjmalonejr]

17. Yup

But it's not just wingnuts. I've heard Republicans of some stature (respected Senators and Representatives) use the term as well.

I'm just saying it's not an accident, a regionalism or a grammatical misstep. It's an intentionally diminutive form of the party's name.

[tom_paine]

18. Still missing the point, Bucky. I like you attempts at sarcasm

But they miss the point entirely.

See Post #16.

And, for the record, I never called the Republicans anything but their correct name until well after the Bloodless Coup of 2000, when the scales were lifted from my eyes about the True Sitaution in Amerika.

You sarcasm, while juvenile in itself and utterly ignroant of what people are talking about here, is amusing, though.

See Post #16.

[CBHagman]

8. It waters down the meaning behind the name.

"Democratic" has naturally positive connotations in our culture because we supposedly believe in democracy and have a democratic system of govenment. Without the suffix, the word becomes a noun and the implication is that you're referring to the party of those people over there, i.e., the Democrats, not people who have democratic princples. It's not an innocent little quirk. It's openly hostile.

[Bucky]

9. Damn those Repuglinazibots for their pointless name-calling!

They're so fucking obscene!

[redqueen]

14. Does this mean

that you've seen frequent public commentary from pundits calling Republicans anything but Republicans?

Please do tell!

[tom_paine]

16. No it means he is not understanding the points made on this thread

He is trying to point out that yes, we also call them names.

But that does not even come CLOSE to answering the point! Name-calling is one thing, a co-oridnated, controlled long-term campaign to relabel terms is QUITE ANOTHER.

Bucky does not grasp that, so he thinks he is just blowing us away with his insight.

I say again: Name-calling is one thing, a co-ordinated, controlled long-term campaign to relabel terms is QUITE ANOTHER.

[Bucky]

24. Dude, save your scorn for the Republicans. We just disagree here

Name-calling is one thing, a co-ordinated, controlled long-term campaign to relabel terms is QUITE ANOTHER

True. The terms "pro-abortion", "femi-nazi", and the temporary re-evaluation of "liberal" in the 80s are prime examples of relabeling. There's an undeniable "NewSpeak" quality to it. In a less offensive area, the phrases "differently abled" and "handicapable" had quick little shelf lives in the 90s.

I was certainly not intending to "blow away" anybody with my little humors. I only wanted to prod a little more thoughtful reply than the obvious points that I could figure out for myself. I continue not to "grasp" how "Democrat" in anyway divorces me from being "democratic". For me, at least, calling attention to the distinction only reinforces their connection.

But on a deeper level, this really is just a label. It's not as if most Republicans oppose democracy any more than Democrat(ic)s have a problem with republicanism. If it's the co-ordinated, controlled" part of their name-tweeking that bothers you most, I would remind you that they have always been more organized and mob-minded than we. I always thought the "herding cats" quality of organizing the Democrats was a biproduct of our strength and diversity.

Furthermore, I've noticed that the relabeling at least in this forum, is applied with a great deal of consistancy. So my sarcasm is mostly directed at our own tendency to do groupthink when it comes to ascribing all ugly qualities and labels onto our political opponents. How often do you hear a reporter being called a "whore" just for reporting news that makes us look bad?

Which word gets used more around here, Condolleezza or Condosleazy? How often do I need to be reminded that Dick Cheney's first name is a euphemism for penis? How many times do we need to see a swastika and Chaplin moustache Photoshopped onto Bush's picture before we start to see we're responding to bullying groupthink by becoming bullying groupthinkers with simply more responsible social policies?

[redqueen]

27. It's disrespectful, period.

And I don't know why you refuse to see the difference between people on a message board being disrespectful vs. dozens if not hundreds of pundits being disrespectful.

And we don't call 'jouranlists' whores for 'making us look bad'. We call them whores because they are whored out, period. When a 'journalist' takes the blast fax from Rove and copies it into print, that's a bona-fide sign they're whored out. (e.g. the crap about Berger sticking things in his socks, the yawning boy at bu$h's rally, etc, etc, etc)

[tom_paine]

37. Do our elected officials use the term? Left-Wing Cable Pundits (if there

actually WERE any).

This is ONE TINY FORUM, the "Democrat Party" thing can be heard (with scronful tone included) form Bush DeLay Limbaugh, O'Reichley, Beck and a hundred others read from Mallkin to Krauthammer to Coulter to a hundred others.

YOU fail to see how it affects YOU. Who is speaking of that? I am talking about an organized NewSpeak campaign that affects us ALL, whether you let it bother you or not.

Again you compare what is said on DU to an officially snactioned propaganda ploy now used even by the Emperor himself and unashamedly.

We DO disagree and I am afraid you still have my scorn.

Sorry. At this late date, denial and head-in-the-sandism WILL get my scron every time.

What they say and the cooridnated slurs have nothing to do with YOU. They have to do with everyone undecided, uniformed, or not cognizant of it. It is designed to help relabel and redefine reality as Orwell prophesied correct 70 years ago.

We do agree to diagree. Sorry about the scorn thing. It isn;t going anywhere. I can't help it any more than you can help denying the fact that when Bush DeLay, haster etal all use a coordinated slur that it is fundamentally different from a bunch of folks name-calling on a single website.

And I guarantee you that any name-calling and slurs used here would be INSTANTLY REPUDIATED by the DemocratIC Party, not passed along and amplified by their elected officials.

"Gosh, I can't see how calling the Jews, Rats, affects me. I know I'm not a Rat, not a Rattus Norvegicus nor any other species."

[tom_paine]

15. You know what, just see post #16 and be done with it

n/t

[Sterling]

55. And go back and respond to that thread you started.

It's really bad DU manners to start a thread and not respond to the prople who responded to you.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2046219&mesg_id=2046219

[UdoKier]

20. If for no other reason we should object to "democrat party" because...

... not doing so continues the pattern of letting THEM define what WE are. I'm damn sick and tired of that.

[BillZBubb]

21. You should be insulted. Why you are not I cannot fathom.

The party is the Democratic Party. For officials of the other party to call us by another name is insulting. They are trying to be insulting. They are kicking sand in your face. And you are willing to allow that?

They are using Orwellian language control. As others have pointed out they don't want our party associated with democracy. Democratic implies democratic values, so the right wing tries to redefine our party to diminish that tie. Sure, it's seems to simple to be successful, but look what they've done with the word liberal, among others. They are trying to define your party. And you are willing to allow that?

And your attempt at sarcasm equating people who post names like Repug and Repuke here on DU with a coordinated attack by Republican officials is naive at best.

[checks-n-balances]

44. Name-calling is pretty blunt; saying "Democrat Party" a subtle dig

with a history that's hard to trace. Very VERY subtle, but IMHO part of a "Republic Party" strategy.

Here are three posters' comments from a freeper thread on the subject:

My Random House dictionary lists an entry for "Democratic Party" but has no such listing for a "Democrat Party." A "democrat" is a member of the "Democratic" party. My college history book lists all presidential candidates of the Demos in U.S. history as belonging to the "Democratic" Party.

personally, however, I prefer DEMONcRATS!...

"Democrat Party" is kind of a slam. Opponents cannot bring themselves to say Democratic Party, so a party of Democrats is the "Democrat Party". I carefully avoid using the term "Democratic Party"...

The story I know is that Gingrich purposefully started calling it the Democrat party to enfuriate them.

"Democrat Party" is kind of a slam. Opponents cannot bring themselves to say Democratic Party, so a party of Democrats is the "Democrat Party". I carefully avoid using the term "Democratic Party"...

The correct usage would be, "Democratic Party," made up of individual "democrats." In the old days, the party was referred to as "democracy."

That may have been a slur...

Entire thread:
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/784529/posts

From a more civil conservative discussion board:

Q: Is it common practice to use Democrat and democratic interchangeably?

I always thought there was a distinction.

A: The party's name is the Democratic Party; those registered to vote in the party's primary are Democrats. At some point during the 1990s, some clever Republican decided that it wasn't right for the Democratic Party to be able to refer to itself as "democratic." The word then went forth that all loyal Republicans were to refer to the other party as the "Democrat Party" (this is a caricature of what happened, but not by much).

Democrats usually refer to their party by its chosen name, not by the one Republicans have tried to foist on them.

Posted by: Jeff Cooper on May 19, 2003 04:54 PM
http://www.jeffcoop.com/blog/archives/002012.html

Article on Deliberate use of Language:
...the clearest expression of Gingrich's philosophy of media came in a GOPAC memo entitled "Language: A Key Mechanism of Control." Distributed to GOP candidates across the country, the memo's list of words for Democrats and words for Republicans was endorsed by Gingrich in a cover letter: "The words in that paper are tested language from a recent series of focus groups where we actually tested ideas and language." Next time you hear Gingrich complain about media focusing on the negative, refer back to these lists.

As you know, one of the key points in the GOPAC tapes is that "language matters." In the video "We Are a Majority," Langauage is listed as akey mechanism of control used by a majority party, along with Agenda, Rules, Attitude and Learning. As the tapes have been used in training sessions across the country and mailed to candidates, we have heard a plaintive plea: "I wish I could speak like Newt."

<snip>
This list is prepared so that you might have a directory of words to use in writing literature and mail, in preparing speeches, and in producing electronic media. The words and phrases are powerful. Read them. Memorize as many as possible. And remember that, like any tool, these words will not help if they are not used....

Contrasting Words
Often we search hard for words to help us define our opponents. Sometimes we are hesitant to use contrast. Remember that creating a difference helps you. These are powerful words that can create a clear and easily understood contrast. Apply these to the opponent, their record, proposals and their party.

More:
http://www.fair.org/extra/9502/language-control.html

Article by a Dem, I think:
Republic Party? Can and Should the Democratic Party
Strike Back?
An Opinion by Gene Hargrove

...Throughout nearly all of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, it was universally accepted that Democrat was a noun referring to the members of a party and that Democratic was an adjective referring to things having to do with Democrats, the members of the Democratic Party. Even the members of the Republican Party respected the name Democratic Party for much more than a hundred years.

Near the end of the twentieth century, however, some members of the Republican Party began acting as if they had forgoten how to pronounce the name of the Democratic Party and started calling it the "Democrat Party."

Since the first person to use the phrase was John Connolly, who had for most of his life been a Democrat, it was not a simple matter of forgetting or getting confused about grammar, about the relationship of nouns and adjectives. Apparently, the Republicans wanted to try to disassociate the word democratic from the name of the party of their chief opponents, perhaps having realized that democratic was a more powerful word than republican. Most likely no one will ever know exactly what was going on in their heads. Nevertheless, the basic idea of taking the "ic" off of Democratic and using a noun as an adjective is clear--they were trying to be insulting.

It is a sad commentary on the ways of humans that people can get used to errors and malpractice and that the misuse and abuse of language can become the norm. Today most Republicans, many members of the news media, and even a few Democrats say Democrat Party as if they really believe it is the name of that political organization...

http://www.phil.unt.edu/~hargrove/repub.htm

From a Daily Kos discussion last week:

Demo-Cratic
Can someone please explain to me why so many are choosing to write out "Democratic" (as in the Democratic Party) this way?

<grammar lesson>
John Kerry is a Democrat.
John Kerry is a member of the Democratic Party.
The Democratic nominee for president is John Kerry.
I want a Democratic president.
I hope our next president is a Democrat.
The Democratic Party should do well in the general election.
The Democrats could pick up a couple Senate seats.
When it's a noun, it's "Democrat". When it's an adjective, it's "Democratic".

http://skyresh.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/15/134431/782

On edit: misplaced italics

[tom_paine]

46. MORE EVIDENCE REQUIRED, BUCKY?

If you need more, you are worse off than I thought.

As I said, I have a hard time keeping the lid on my scorn for Head-In-The-Sand-ers.

My apologies.

[Democat]

23. Do not allow the right wing to name you

When they try to say Democrat Party, they must always be corrected - if not, eventually they will change the name of our party. If we let them name our party, what else are you willing to give them?

[Bucky]

31. I'm simply not that thinskinned, I guess. Let me suggest this approach.

If someone calls your party the "Democrat Party" don't get upset. Simply state, very slowly so that a child can understand, "It's pronounced 'Dem - o - cra - tic'. It's better to correct a child than to be overly worried about a Big Brother conspiracy.

[redqueen]

33. Uh huh

Please see posts 28 and 29

[sandnsea]

48. You're a treasonous Rat

Get it? That's the exact reason they do it, subliminal implantation of "Rat" or DemoCrap, I've heard that too. It isn't "big brother conspiracy", it's a straight up fact.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beacho]

25. Wasn't this one of Newt's 'buzzwords'?

Anyone remember the list of words ditributed by Newt?

The use of 'democrat party' was a semantic tool to seperate the impression of the word 'democratic' from democrats.

[Shakespeare]

28. You are correct.

It's intended to be dismissive and nasty, and it comes from one of the nastiest repubs of them all. Add to that the fact that it's grammatically incorrect, and you can entertain yourself for hours watching my (english major) head explode whenever I hear that particular form of deliberate misuse.

[redqueen]

29. Thank you, you're exactly right!

http://www.zianet.com/khacker/ld1.htm


Republicans Continue Their
Linguistic Deception
by J. Rousseau, May 16, 1999


Since about 1994, Newt Gingrich instructed Republicans in how to manipulate language in order to move public opinions against Democrats and other liberals. The tools left over from the Gingrich tutorials are still in play and the most insidious one flows from the lips of every Republican robot interviewed on television. Whenever they refer to the opposition party, they intentionally distort its true name "Democratic Party" to something less -- what they call "Democrat Party."

Now you might wonder why this is so important. Well, when politicians and leaders train themselves to distort legitimate names of their opposition, you should know they are playing a game of propaganda and thus avoiding real issues real solutions to problems that concern most Americans.

Historically, the Democratic Party has been just that. The label "Democrat Party" given to it by Republicans is cheap and unethical. It is like calling civilian casualities "collateral damage" or dropping bombs on Vietnamese villagers "delivering the mail." The kind language distortion used in inventing the "Democrat Party" insults our nation, all Democrats, and Republicans who value accurate historical records. It cheapens our political discourse, falsifies history, and serves no purpose other than to short-circuit intelligent thought.

It is understandable that George Orwell believed that "Political Speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible." Has the Republican Party (not "Republic Party!") stooped to this level?

[Lerkfish]

38. which only shows...

how supremely messed up the republicans are in their thinking. it really is a chickensalad way to approach something, by basically slyly doing schoolyard taunts everytime they refer to you, and try to bait you into noticing so that YOU look bad or shrill to point it out.

[tom_paine]

40. BING BING BING! We have a winner!

Yes, that is near the genesis of this aspect of the Goebbels v2.0 Propaganda NewSpeak Machine's War on Liberty.

[redqueen]

41. And NONE OF US should back down and accept it.

NONE OF US.

[SemperEadem]

30. who says that it is? a RWer?

then consider the source.

They don't define squat outside of their little minds. They certainly don't define me. Democrat, Democratic... they can go ahead and speak ignorantly all day long--it won't make me look bad and uneducated... it makes me look far more intelligent.

[Castro]

32. Uh...Ok...thanks for that

he isn't insulted....very profound

[JerseygirlCT]

34. It's one of the snidely little Republican things to get under our skin

In the big picture, far down on their list of wrongs. But it IS annoying to be renamed, incorrectly, by someone else. The implication is that we are not "democratic" (little "d"), so they remove the "ic" from the name of the party.

I've had a little e-mail back and forth with Zogby about this on the poll -- to no avail. Their claim is they can't win -- some want it one way, some another. I replied that in that case they were better off using the name the party itself uses to identify itself, weren't they?

No answer to that...

[Beacho]

35. Agreed

But no opportunity should be passed to 'correct' the user of such lame language twisting, to expose them for the little sneaky vermin they are

[senseandsensibility]

36. I first became aware of this term

when I still used to listen to NPR, and a woman caller raked one of the repug guests over the coals for using it. Of course the NPR host played dumb, and went along with the repug that the caller was being too sensitive. This was about three years ago, and since then I've heard the term more and more often, almost ALWAYS from far right wing smear artists. It is pejorative, and meant to insult. It is calculating, ignorant, and mean spirited. It is stupid, and should be corrected. Hey, if we can't correct the name of our own party, it will soon become accepted terminology. Who's gonna stop it? The mediawhores?

[redqueen]

42. I heard it on NPR last night during the *BBC* broadcast.

:(

[tom_paine]

43. Correct. At least it is comforting to see so many understanding

what is going on. This is a tiny cog in an Orwellian propaganda machine that makes Hitler and Giebbels (from a propaganda perspective opnly) look like kids with a megaphone.

They could learn much from Amerikan Goebbels (Rove) and Amerikan Goebbels Jr. (Luntz)

[CaTeacher]

45. This was educational.

I was completely unaware of the implications--I never listen to talk radio--much less to RW talk-radio.

From now on I will correct people. I think that for some it is just seeping into their conscious and they are using it without thinking--I truly have heard people use this term that I do not believe meant it to be an insult.

I will try to educate them kindly.

[tom_paine]

49. Cool. Many are unaware, it's true. You WILL run into those Freepers

and Busheviks who use it forcefully and purposefully.

Please do not be gentle with these "kinder and gentler" Nazis.

Be gentle and polite with the rest.

Of course, good propaganda is designed to seep into the collective subconscious, which allows the language to be rewritten.

[sangh0]

47. I don't understand the question

Are you saying that because you're not insulted, it can't possible be insulting?

That would be crazy talk!!

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zorra]

50. We are the democratic party. Republicans are the "corporatic" party.

[checks-n-balances]

53. You are SO right! Someday the USA may be referred to as the CSA

i.e., The CORPORATE States of America.

BTW, now that I think about it, I remember what a rightwing talking head said on this subject, when questioned about it. The response was, "Oh, no, 'Democrat Party' is the correct term, since that was the original historical name for it." So I fell for it and ceased to be irritated until I started a thread at DU on the subject. The responses were very instructive and then I felt I'd been had by the freepers.

I resent my party's (the DEMOCRATIC Party's) identity being manipulated - even a little bit - and consider it part of a bigger LIE.

Only ONE of thousands of reasons I'm a Democrat and do NOT trust the opposition party.

[kaitykaity]

52. This used to bother me, but not anymore.

I heard enough non-partisan people do it that it doesn't
have the impact of an insult for me anymore.