So fellow ladies your previous sexual history

[mtnester]

and activity can now, again, be used against you in court thanks to the Kobe Bryant defence team and a judge that does not understand the law or is a woman hater.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5499451/

[Triana]

1. he's a woman hater...

...period

[TrustingDog]

2. well, surprise, surprise! Goober is back...

not surprised at all, actually.
The war is on, and it's against the people here in the homeland.

[Spinzonner]

3. You're overstating the ruling

and compromising your own issue.

It applies only to the time around the alleged rape and for the purpose of evaluating the evidence. There's no indication that it will apply to her 'habits' or lifestyle.

[aquart]

4. This is NOT history.

This is what she did ON THE DAY. This is pattern of behavior.

It would be outrageous to exclude this evidence and pretend the trial was fair.

I understand the point of exclusion. My cousin's rapist (whose explanation to her was that he believed she'd been gangraped by his friends the week before and he hadn't gotten his) was let off because the NJ jury was shocked that a seventeen year old girl was not a virgin (they included it all).

What the jury didn't hear, because it was EXCLUDED, was that the rapist was on parole for a rape in another state.

I'm not a believer in exclusion.

[scarletwoman]

5. DNA evidence from the "rape kit" showed ANOTHER man's sperm

along with Kobe Bryant's. I think it's reasonable to allow this as evidence for the defense.

sw

[JuniperLea]

6. are you saying

that just because she had consentual sex with another man the same day, that kobe didn't rape her? the consentual sex deal is the issue here. i don't care if she had consentual sex with fifty guys that day, if kobe had sex with her against her will, it is still rape! i don't care if she is the biggest whore in america, she still deserves to decide with whom she will have sex. what does another man's sperm have to do with anything???

[Dookus]

9. No

of course he could've raped her. But it allows the defense to question the evidence of genital damage and its possible causes.

[rumguy]

11. Sex with two men on the same day without condoms?

Is there really evidence of this? You a have to admit that is quite something if it's true...

[kerry-is-my-prez]

14. They had old semen on her underwear. DNA stays on through several washings

We might all have underwear that we haven't worn for a few years that could have old DNA on it. I have underwear that I haven't worn for several years in my underwear drawer. They don't take up that much space so I don't bother throwing it out too often.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. The Defense Is Contending That The Alleged Victim Had Sex

with another man after she was allegedly raped by Kobe but before she reported it the poilice.....


If that contention is true her behavior strikes me as bizzare.....

[JuniperLea]

16. multiple partners

seems weird to me, but i'm not condeming anyone else. yes, i too think it would be weird to have sex with my boyfriend so shortly after being raped, but that doesn't mean another woman couldn't do that if she chose to. and i don't think it would be wrong either. sort of like getting back on the horse after falling off maybe.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. She Destroyed The Evidence....

It sounds gross but a woman who's assaulted need to have an exam immediately.... She's not supposed to shower and certainly not supposed to have sex with someone else....


If that's the case we can't be sure who caused the damage....

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[TomNickell]

36. But, shouldn't the jury have all the facts?

The man is, effectively, on trial for his life.

If the decision depends on the jury's judgment about her credibility and her behavior appears 'weird', shouldn't the jury hear all the facts?

Attitudes have changed a -lot- since the rape shield laws were passed. A jury can deal more fairly with a sexually active woman now than it would have done 25 years ago.

[progressivebydesign]

10. That's such bullshit...

... a woman who has sex with her boyfriend or husband, but is raped two hours later is not considered "raped"? Men have no freakin' idea what it's like to be a woman.. if they did, they'd be ashamed of the shit they try to pass off as law.

[Dookus]

13. c'mon people

read.

The fact is, the prosecution wants to introduce evidence of minor damage to the genitalia in order to indicate she was raped by Kobe. If that damage can reasonably be caused by something else, the defense has every right to make that case.

[JuniperLea]

17. if that's the case

then damage like that can never be proven in a rape case by a woman who was not a virgin at the time of the rape.

[Dookus]

19. huh?

microscopic tears in skin heal all the time.

This has nothing to do with virginity.

It has to do with whether she's telling the truth, and whether any injuries inflicted (and they are microscopic injuries) could reasonably have been caused by someone OTHER than Kobe.

[JuniperLea]

31. exactly

the only way to prove there was no damage would be to be a virgin... those tears happen all the time, you said exactly what i said.

[Curious Dave]

7. This stuff makes me sick!

All they're trying to do here is open the door for a "she is nothing but a lying slut out to trap poor Kobe" defense. And why do defense attorneys use the "lying slut" defense? Because sad to say it works. Makes me sick!

[Dookus]

8. No, that isn't true

this isn't about her "sexual history". It's about the sexual contacts she had right around the same time as her encounter with Bryant.

If the prosecution is going to use "damage" to the genital tissues as evidence, then it's reasonable for the defense to ask if there are other possible causes of such damage.

[Curious Dave]

18. Hmmmmmm

Genital damage. I'll concede the point on a technicality, but...

The idea that the genital damage resulted from consensual sex as opposed to having resulted from rape? Maybe, but then there is Occam's Razor... I think if I was on this jury I'd read that as an attempted to muddy the waters on the part of the defense (and I fully appreciate that in a case like that muddying the water is an acceptable tactic).

I do have to admit I tend to knee-jerk on these kind of cases. I suppose it stems from having been involved as a witness in a case where I watched a guilty sexual harasser go free because the defense successfully (but wrongly) painted his 3 (yes 3!) accusers as lying sluts.

[Dookus]

23. I understand

and I would be the first to agree that a woman's sexual history has no relevance. But this isn't about her "history". It's about her actions immediately before and after the alleged rape.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. What If She Had Sex With Another Man Before Reporting The Assault?

NT

[Alenne]

15. This only applies to sexual activity after she says Kobe raped her

but before her rape exam.

The defense says they have DNA evidence that another man's semen was found during the rape exam. The victim told police she had sex with a condom with only one person three days before the rape.

This evidence is very important because the prosecutor is saying there was a vaginal tear found. If she had sex after the sexual encounter with Kobe then the tear could have come from someone else.

This ruling does not mean the defense can bring up sexual encounters she had in the 10th grade.

[JuniperLea]

20. then they also need to prove

under what conditions a vaginal wall will tear.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. I Can Think Of Several Conditions

some of which have their basis is physiology....

[Alenne]

32. I'm sure they will

Any credible expert will admit that microscopic vaginal tears can come from consensual sex.

[wndycty]

24. If vaginal tearing is introduced as evidence. . .

. . .whether or not she had sex with someone else that week is relevant.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. Especially If She Had Sex With Someone Else Before Reporting The Assault

That is bizzare..... And if that's the case I can't believe the prosecution brought charges...

But I believe this is a defense theory not fact....

[bleedingheart]

27. Reasonable Doubt has acquitted many people

so if the defense convinces the jury that there is reasonable doubt...then the defendant in many cases will walk free.

The sad fact is that guilty people are sometimes allowed to walk away only to repeat the crime but that is the price we pay in a democratic society...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. Blackstone

Better to let a hunded guilty people go free than to incarcerate one innocent man...

[jpgray]

29. This is about the evidence of alleged physical damage

If she had another instance of intercourse before being examined, such evidence cannot be positively identified as the result of one encounter or the other, and so cannot be used without entering in all her sexual encounters that could have caused the damage.

[indigobusiness]

34. As opposed to your future sexual history

which we all could be convicted for.

[TomNickell]

35. Under the circumstances, it seems relevant.

The ruling only covers 72 hours. Interpretation of the physical evidence depends on her activities in that period.

Used to be (a long, long time ago when I was young) that the defense attorney would try to show just that the woman was sexually active--spent the night with her boyfriend, or had an affair. That was supposed to sway a jury or at least discourage the next woman from coming forward. Rape shield laws are supposed to stop that. I don't know that the tactic would work nowadays anyway.

But, when you have a woman who has had multiple partners in a few days. Or a partner after the alleged rape, it seems to me that that is directly relevant to her credibility.

ie, "She slept with that schmuck, and that ugly mug and that fat bastard, but she wouldn't sleep with this handsome NBA star?"

I see the other side, but the accused has a lot at stake, too.