Killing the poor

[undergroundpanther]

Wake up folks,the poor haters are on the move they are destroying low income housing.
After we give our lives to them they want more,they still create ways to make the poor suffer for existing!

http://www.cbpp.org/7-15-04hous-survey.htm

http://jmooneyham.com/bright.html

Stand up,and stop the parasite wealthy class from stealing and destroying the fruits of our civilization.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Make sure every working class person knows

that Bush said that poor people are poor because they are lazy. Then make sure they are reigsterd to vote!

[Kanary]

2. This issue has been left OUT of every DEM platform, speech

and candidate race.

It is simply no longer of concern.

We rail that the REpukes are so sick that they don't care about the deaths of our own soldiers, and Iraqi cititzens. Yet, theDEMs DO NOT CARE that there are people in our own country, dying of poverty, and further cuts that will go through silently will cause that many more deaths. IT SIMPLY IS NOT AN ISSUE.

All anyone can talk about is MIDDLECLASS issue, and "the working poor". Those of us who are no longer able to work are, once again, just shoved under the rock. In doing so, they have pitted "the working poor" against the seniors and disabled. And, they will win in doing so, because all the "dems" are playing along with the game.

:nuke:

Kanary

[undergroundpanther]

3. Why is this issue important

Having a peaceful prosperous nation requires respect for the poor and working poor who keep the middle class and rich afloat. If you cut away the social safety nets you will be subjected to a life of serfdom under monopolies.Remember child labor and the Jungle? The corporate elites will never sully thier delicate hands with work and strife they leave that to the poor.

America's haboit of Poor bashing makes me want to punch the arrogant muther fuckers in the face and take his wallet too.I wish I could do something about this evil belief that poverty equals immorality creeping out of the barren souls in our country making us all crazy..I swear this nation is turning sociopath.

I am poor and disabled. If that means anything to anyone.I live in my moms basement.My hubby is on disability and he lives here because we can't AFFORD rent, I have no income because we got married like idiots .I lost a sect.8 apt.when we thought he could "make it".And for a short time we did "make it" and it almost killed us. He took computer courses and got a few well paying jobs.Soon it looked stable,we moved around from place to place chasing jobs,soon we bought a house,until the dot com bust. Than boom.We crashed. We were in a town isolated from freinds and family trying to sell a house real fast.We were lucky neither of us had a breakdown from the stress or got into severe debt.We both got very close to killing ourselves and we'd have no insurance for me to go the hospitalif I messed that up..My hubby got disability and Medicare when we Got divorced .I got nothing now. So we got divorced.I am reapplying for disability,and I have NO work history,because I have been in mental hospitals etc trying to get my shit together for years..I ain't holding my breath that things for people like me will improve.I know the rich bastards want to cull poor people because everyone but their kind(cronies) are expendable serfs and tools in this chicken coop we call our existence.If there is a god he is a monster making a world where life destroys life to live to struggle another day against it's kin.

I hate rich people,because they don't have to have a clue, and they don't want a clue and no one steps up to show them how it feels to be poor by forcing them to pay back what they steal from society at large.No one dares challenge the rich on their draconian social parasitism.These narcissistic assholes have an entitlement delusion and the petty wannabes aping them don't realize they too are expendable tools of the rich man's gran inhuman pyramid scam..They project this entitlement thing on the poor with mythic shit like"welfare queens". Have you EVER had to choose between spending on electric heat or food? These few rich manipulating monsters in human suits are way bigger parasites on society than all the poor put together.They drain the world's wealth all to themselves,as they scapegoat the poor and kill through wars and divide people so we nEVER blame them for this mess..The rich instigate wars they themselves are too afraid to fight but love to start up and let the poor fight for them because it makes them money.I especially despise the bullies who think they are entitled to take from others because no one forbids them and they have money so they think they are entitled to dominate everything.I wish I could just erase the sociopaths,the greedy and the power mongers and their sick kind of authoritarian and abusive consciousness from existence .
I truly think all people who become ultra wealthy,a leader,a bigot a Fundy bully republican, are indeed sociopaths without a soul inside.They must be stopped.They are emotionally retarded and unworthy of what they take..The leader sociopaths just are in control of themselves enough to fake normal well enough to dupe most people,until get cronies and power round themselves so they can act out their sickness in"lawful" ways like wars and killing/torturing the poor. We need to stop electing and trusting manipulators and their appearances,we need to doubt normal and charisma. We need to question the social value of rich people,sociopaths the conduct disordered and keep emotionally dead personalities OUT of positions of social or economic power. No more kings.I wish humanity would wake up and smell the bullshit,rise up and bite off the wealthy hands that steal everything from them.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Hope that your flame suit is extra thick. You did catch the point

that some of these folks who are losing their housing are disabled, didn't you?

Read some of the posts in this thread on the subject: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2053945#2054504

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[liberalhistorian]

49. That's true,

but millions of people work very, very hard at low-wage jobs that don't provide any benefits. They try their best to get ahead but when you only make enough for basic subsistence and you can't even go to the doctor or hospital because there's no way in hell you can afford it and if you do their collection agencies will come down on your ass harder than Hades taking what little you have left and when the cost of everything is rising far faster than your ever-shrinking salary and you're working longer and harder for less and less there's really no way to get ahead.

I'm a paralegal who's seen firsthand the criminalization of the poor, usually by those who have more than enough without any real effort on their part, and it's beyond sickening and infuriating. It's being written into the legal and financial codes and being institutionalized as we write. And when financial assistance for college is being cut along with everything else that even marginally assists those who aren't fortunate enough to inherit daddy's money to have at least a somewhat bearable life then we can kiss any chance of upward mobility goodbye.

I've been in their shoes and I can honestly tell you that I'd rather die than be poor again. No matter how hard you work it isn't enough, it's exhausting just getting through the day because each and every day you have to figure out how to just get the basics, and you're treated like shit by everyone everywhere you go and society's institutions pretty much make life unbearable for you. And then you have to listen to rich fucks who've never had to lift a finger in real work a day in their life talk about how lazy and worthless you are and that you're just not working hard enough when you're working 50 plus hours a week. And if you get sick with a major illness or need major surgery, tough shit, because you won't get any treatment or, if you do, what little is left of your credit is worthless and the medical collectrolls will take what little you have left. Or you get thrown in jail, as has actually happened to many people since some hospitals began using "body attachments" against uninsured people who had the nerve to get pneumonia or meningitis or cancer, little, unimportant, trivial things like that.

But hell, who cares, because their lives aren't worth nearly as much as the life of someone with a little more of the green stuff. And the kids-don't even get me started on how all this shit affects children. They don't ask to be born to parents who may work hard but have little, and boy do they suffer for it. And at the hands of those who scream about personal responsibility and how it's all the parent's responsiblity to feed and clothe and house their kids. Now, that's certainly true, but why, then, do we punish the CHILDREN when their parents fuck up? And parents who are good parents and loving and caring to their children can still lose them if they're poor because social services and the law are far harder on poor parents than middle-class parents.

Poor parents will be charged for mistakes that ALL parents make while other parents with money will be left alone. My parents are retired teachers with friends who are social workers, and they can absolutely vouch for all of this, they've seen enough of it. And as a paralegal, I've seen enough of it as well. No doubt there are cases like those you've described, true enough. I've seen those, too. But they're far outweighed, my friend.

[Laughing Mirror]

6. What about lazy ass rich people, rich because they're lucky

They inherited their money or married into it but never do a lick of work, just make slobs of themselves. Should they not be helped too? Or should the not helping only extend to lazy poor people?

[maveric]

7. So, you're saying that bu$h is correct in saying that the poor

are poor because they are lazy? Some people are born into poverty and have many social and educational issues facing them. Some cant get into college because they dont qualify for scholarships or just cant afford tuition/books, etc.

[undergroundpanther]

8. And you know

Poverty here isn't real poverty Yes it is better than say sudan or Iraq,
But do you suffer? How often does the idea of killing yourself enter your mind?
Poverty ain't just money .
It's emotional poverty.

In America we got wealth, but what is it being used for? Emopire and keeping people poor overseas so we can be richer here,well,who never feels the pich over there or over here? THE RICH. The pain of living on the street in Americaa is still living on the street whether in america or india it is the same thing it is the same suffering It is a social system failure. Fastness has NOTHING to do with this nor does the puritain belief prodestant work ethic guilt trip bullshit you buy and spread around.
Sucess is liar, a whore for the rich to dupe people.
Guess what bait the slave traffikers use to lure poor or people flreeing countries in collapse?
The traffickers promise oppurtunities for sucess,a better lot in life to the desperate.Tell them shit like if you work hard you can become rich..And desperate people take them up on it and become slaves.America the wage state is duped by the same old lie the traffickers in human slavery use.

If I see more bootstrap pulling bullshit about this I'm gonna think DU is infested by closet freepers.

Our stupid rich adoring profit driven system has failed to take care of it's human base.And the serfs are blind to the exploitation.Our system has failed on purpose overseas (cheap labor republicans)and now it's planned failures that make money only for the wealthiest is creeping over here (outsourcing and cutting low cost housing ).
As long as haves think there entitled to take from everyone ,everyone is expendable and a candidate for poverty the middle class can be downsized if the Ceo can't get what he wants..
You can try and try to "make it"but sometimes the wealthy do not let you make it.Sometimes sucess and maintaining sucess is too much emotional stress.Most divocres happen not over dissatisfaction but over MONEY.
The rich and thier social control system has a billion emotionally draining ways quite out of an individual's control to bar people from happiness and security.
The real terrorists are in the boardrooms and positions of power and wealth.

[Kanary]

10. You notice, underground panther, (love the name!)

how cleverly the whole issue was derailed, and will most likely die, because some hateful jerk decides to vent his spleen?

BTW, this person brought his own prison woes on himself, by knowingly and wilfully breaking laws against dealing drugs. Yet, he deserves so much more pity, and wants the people who are up against the wall to just go ahead and die.

I'm willing to bet that now this will all be about him..........

And, if you start another thread about poverty to get away from him, he'll just infest that. Just like the sexism threads are.

We're royally screwed by this whole party!

Kanary

[Kanary]

11. BTW, you might want to beware

that he sent me a crappy PM, so you might expect one, also.

Just so you know.......

Kanary

[undergroundpanther]

16. He is a bully Kanary

And in our culture for one person to suceed in it,This one must sell thier soul and kill it's capacity for empathy for fellow human beings slowly so that as one rises up the corporate ladder one can be callous enough and disconnected from thier own actions enough to not feel a twinge of pain firing people with kids, cutting budgets and mainge other people suffer for your own sucess,and you gootta be cold to screw your fellow man and make him become just a number..
If he fires me a pm,I'll just delete it I don't bother to read bully crap talk because it is designed to hurt.. because I know what bullies like him will say,they say the same shit.and it's all about themself and bemoaning why everyone must be as they are or be inferior.
It is the bullies and the conduct disordered among us who created and rely on this system of abuse,lies and strife and a duped confused divided culture that tolerates abuse to hold them up.

As for complimenting my name ,thank you.
The whole name is Underground Panther in the Sky.
It's a spiritual thing for me.

[Kanary]

17. bully, is right........

We are a sociopathic society, and admire bullies. How's that for sick?

All you say is true....... as a nation, we are glorifying insensitivity...... see it all the time right here on DU..... don't have to go any further than that. People like me are always told to "get a skin". Isn't that just lovely? Especially coming from the DEMs.

And, youre right...... it serves a very useful purpose......... desensitizing people from the pain of their neighbors, so the attacking can continue, and the power concentrated more and more in the completely desensitized CORPS. But, the middle and lower class buy into the shit, annd criticise each other, and call each other names, so that we ALL become like dead cogs in the wheels.

It's worked so well so far, that I hear a lot from elderly friends that they're glad their lives are about over, because they don't want to live longer as this society gets more and more mean. NOw, isn't that a lovely tribute to our USian way of life? And all so the CORPS can make us more powerless. WE COLLUDE IN THE GAME!

I'm not a cat person, but I had a wonderful spiritual dream about a panther many years ago, and came to realize that if I had a totem animal, it would be a panther. The dream had me in awe!

:yourock:

Kanary

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[undergroundpanther]

20. A bully cannot bully unless he has a culture for company

Any non Bullies here on DU wanna discuss how to solve poverty issues for real,and get honest aboyut the causes without all the arrogant pull yourself up bullshit responses we all have heard before from 'self made' "sucessful" people advocating we all become driven and competitive and without empathy as they are??

[bread_and_roses]

22. Your "analysis" ignores too many factors

... and seems to rely soley on personal experience. Most people can tell an anecdote about some "lazy" person s/he knows. Those anecdotes do not begin to account for structural problems causing most poverty in the US, some of which are addressed in other posts in this thread. Most particularly, those anecdotes do not address the inadequate number of living wage jobs available. Should every person in the US suddenly become fit and willing to work, educated and and skilled, the number in poverty would not change much - the jobs are not there. We know this - our economy assumes a large pool of disposable labor. But instead of recognizing that, and allowing people to live in some dignity and degree of comfort, we demonize the poor. And because we cannot as a society admit that, the disabled get lumped in with the demonized poor, and are not only forced to live a marginal and deprived existence.

Also, I find some of your example factually suspect. In NY, which is considered a "generous" state for Public Assisstance benefits, a couple with one person working 30 hours a week even at McD would not be eligible for cash benefits. They MIGHT get some Food Stamps and Medicaid. If there are children in the household, they might recieve a small amount of cash assisstance IF the non-working adult was looking for work. As for your oil field non-laborers, if they are fit adults able to work and refusing to, they would recieve no welfare in NY State. Since most "oil fields" I am aware of are in States with welfare benefits much lower than those in NY State (which are themselves far below the poverty level) I find it hard to believe they are getting much in the way of welfare benefits.

And none of that addresses that we are a rich enough country to support that disposable labor pool when we don't need it, should we choose to be honest and do so instead of pretending that poverty is caused by laziness.

[Kanary]

23. And, there are LOTS of anectdotes about lazy rich people

soaking up MILLIONS from the system.

Somehow that never seems to matter to these RWers, does it? :hi:

Very good post, I appreciate your writing.

I just don't have the energy anymore to combat an issue that was disproven over 20 years ago...

Amazing it's even allowed here......... it's Reagan crap, which is NOT dem.

Kanary

[liberalhistorian]

50. Yes, indeed, don't you just LOVE the blatant hypocrisy,

that he calls his drug dealing "an indiscretion?", and thinks he then has the right to judge and moralize about everyone else? I'm sorry, but drug dealing is not just an "indiscretion."

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[undergroundpanther]

18. Drive?

And to "drive" people you need a boss with a carrot and a stick.
Maybe some don't want to be driven. Maybe they don't value being used.Maybe they value having empathy and space to find themselves over making money,maybe they are worn out and just not competitive.
People are different than the kind of person this culture tries to mold people into.I know the CEO that profit off others don't like that,but tough shit.

I guess it never occurred to you some people are sick to the point of insanity of playing that driven by carrot and fearing the stick game?
There is something to existence beyond getting mine.
And for me and everyone else death will come,success or not,So I don't need to hurry it up to please and enrich some bully jackass making money off my misery,vulnerabilities,talents,intelligence mental illness and hope driving me to a grave with stress quicker by dangling carrots and beating my heart up for not being all they say I should be.
What does anyone know about another's desires anyway and who are they to condemn ,I am who I am,I have my own desires quite independent of this cultures demands and fake role models of persons .And no one has the right to coerce me into being someone else.Especially if the coercion is to profit off me and throw me away when they are done sucking the potentials out..just because they think they can get away with it because they can't feel.I am no fool,I don't make contractual relationships with bullies and emotionally dull machines because life under their emotionally sick yoke is worse than death..

[liberalhistorian]

51. Isn't this "rich", so to speak,

a drug dealer who owns a business when millions of very hard-working people who've never broken a law in their life and who've worked their asses off all of their lives have no such luck. I'm sorry, but that really pisses me off.

And why is it that those who've "been there" as you claim to have been (and I'm not sure I believe that, frankly) then turn around and slam those who are in the very same situation as they once were? And "drive"? PLEASE! I know people who work sixty or more fucking hours a week and then some just to keep their heads above water. They have plenty of "drive", there are just an awful lot of hurdles to overcome. Things like figuring out how to take care of just the basics when your check for working like a dog all week isn't enough by a long shot.

[InkAddict]

54. You've sure said a mouthful...

My spouse is an only child - he didn't choose that status. Yet, he's lost one job (ah so - no long honor ancestors while we make car for AmeriKa) for sure and perhaps two due to the fact that he must care for his 87-yr-old dad, deaf and ESRD cancer survivor, who worked 50 years for the same company and will never be eligible for Medicaid - his drugs alone cost $800 per month, double that if/when he needs APOGEN again to improve anemia, but for paid insurance which will surely go 'er long. Still, Gramps income is NOT sufficient for long-term care here either without adding a few bucks. Without the proper employment, my spouse is compelled by the state to care for this man without giving him the means to do so, namely, a job to pay housing, utilities, proper food, and transportation to his myriad of doctor's appointments and dialysis. Fact is, we spent last Friday nite in the ER - from 8PM until 4AM getting assistance for yet another infection that led him to the beginnings of septic shock!

I'm one of those dumb women who wanted to raise her own babies (for 6 yrs at least) and that now equates to laziness per Mommie dearest, a Rethug fundie, who didn't graduate from high school, never worked for pay a married day in her life, and doesn't drive (makes Dad more of a man")??? What advantages there???

Thereafter, I paid for my own education as far as possible so my kids could enjoy a college education which they're still working on. For the sake of one job, at least 4 more will be thrown into the pit of poverty. Can one person (me) work 24/7? The kids just bought our groceries, and spouse needs the Internet connection for jobhunting. Furthermore, the cable gives Gramps something to do all day long--he can do so little now.

If you are a hiring manager in this state, please PM me ASAP. There's got to be some way to beat this!

[jdonaldball]

12. Is that you, Bill Cosby?

[BuelahWitch]

15. I'm tired of hearing that the poor are "fat" because they're lazy

and eat too much. It's not how much they consume but WHAT they can afford to eat! White flour carbs are cheap and they also pack the weight on. But if you've got a $10 a week budget for food, and peaches are $1.79 a pound, but you can get three bags of macaroni for a dollar, which one are you gonna choose? Fresh fruits and veggies often aren't plausible food for the poor because they're so expensive and they perish so quickly. And fatty hamburger is cheaper than lean cuts of meat too.
Hell, when I wasn't working the Wonderbread outlet down the street was a godsend. Yeah, I gained more weight from eating peanut butter on that .40 loaf of bread than I would have on a $6 loaf of whole grain at the health food store, but you gotta do what you gotta do...

So why don't you go rag on someone like Bob NoFacts for being fat? He can afford a whole truckload of healthy food, and he's lots fatter than I ever got.

[undergroundpanther]

19. Don't forget

Processed food has tons of chemicals and MSG.MSG it makes you fat MSG is wht scientists use to fatten up rats for obesity studies.MSG is in all cheap foods.Stress makes you fat.The world health organization found POVERTY makes you fat until the poverty levels induce starvation..Pollution makes you fat and sick,and of course who on section 8 or who is working two minumum wahge jobs can afford diet fads and have the time to cook every few hours when they can't afford rent?

[liberalhistorian]

52. And most stores in the inner city

and other poor areas don't even carry healthier foods, for that matter. Just shows how out of touch so many people are about the realities faced by those without much money, even if they work hard which most of them do.

My former boss (the one who had to lay me off the job before the one I have now), a committed conservative republican, has really been changing his tune on this. He works twelve hours a day, EVERY SINGLE DAY, no weekends off, and still barely has enough money. He owns a small business and is also a lawyer with a small practice and works so hard at everything and has nothing to show for it. He's now discovered the hard way what I'd been trying to tell him all along, that it often doesn't matter just how hard you work. You can work extremely hard and get nothing for it, and you can also do nothing but be born into a wealthy family and never lift a finger in your life and still have everything.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. Shorter Marvelous_Smarty (So you don't have to go through the entire post)

"I've got mine, fuck you."

[liberalhistorian]

53. LOL!

Thanks, Juan, that's exactly what he's saying! And a former drug dealer, no less. Isn't that "rich", so to speak!

[SammyWinstonJack]

35. Then don't help them, that is your choice

"but I am of the firm opinion that the poor should not be helped unless they are making an effort to do for themselves." :eyes: And who makes that call, who decides if the poor are making "an effort to do for themselves?" You? And what if one is unable to do for oneself? Should they not be helped at all? Just let them suffer I guess is what you are saying? Hey, are you one of those compassionate conservatives like George who say poor people are poor because they are lazy?

[Ladyhawk]

21. There are almost always mitigating circumstances.

I believe in personal responsibility, but I've also learned (the hard way) that there are usually some uncontrollable circumstances that lead to someone becoming poor. You can only do so much when such circumstances take hold. I am trying to take responsibility for as much as I can.

In my case, I'm disabled. I am unable to work. Sometimes I berate myself because I have health problems, but doing so does me no good. The fact is, I've been severely depressed for years, also showing signs of obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorders and post-traumatic stress disorder. I've tried very, very hard to escape the depression, even yielding to shock treatments. Due to the depression, I ended up spending most of three years in bed. I gained an inordinate amount of weight, as well as diabetes and extremely painful herniated discs in my neck and (probably) my lower back.

Every time I've tried a diet and exercise regimen (up until now), some part of my body has fallen apart and derailed the effort: feet, neck, back, etc. I'm trying again, this time mixing up walking, swimming, water aerobics, etc. I'm determined, but getting to a point where I'm physically able to work will take time. I'm still not sure about the mental part. I've worked hard on that. I'm looking into an experimental treatment for depression: vagus nerve stimulation. It would require surgical implantation of a device that electrically stimulates the vagus nerve.

Also, as one becomes disabled and therefore, poor, the quality of medical care becomes much worse. I have been waiting for approval for a second MRI on my spine for over eight months. I need surgery, but the surgery cannot be done until the doctors know what they're dealing with.

The waiting times for any kind of medical or mental health care are increasing. I had to wait seven months to find a psychiatrist to help me work out my psychoactive drugs. He added Strattera to my SSRI, Lexapro, which is normally used to treat ADD. It also increases available nor-epinephrine in the brain, another factor that may be involved with clinical depression. My energy level has increased and I've been able to attempt another exercise/diet program.

The problem is, I can only see this psychiatrist about once every two months or so. Last year, the county clinic had to lay off 30 people. This year, they've had to start closing on Fridays. There are only 3 working psychiatrists in this county and I already knew that two of them sucked, so I had to pull strings to get in to see the good one.

There is no low income housing available for me, nor is there likely to be housing available any time in the near future. HUD Section 8 is broken. I call occasionally and every time I do they tell me there will be NO WAITING LIST for at least five years. As for other types of low-income housing, the waiting list is measured in years.

I have to pay over half of my disability check on rent. Family helps out, but each month I slide further and further into debt.

Honestly, I am trying, but the struggle is hard.

[Kanary]

24. The most "responsible" people I know are poor

Certainly the rich who soak Millions (at least....... some is in the billions) from the system, aren't being "responsible..... but then, we *must* admire our rich cats, eh?

Your story is heartbreaking, Ladyhawk, and if there were still heart in the Dem Party, you would be having all kinds of replies by now.

You certainly have more integrity than the bulk of this party!

Kanary

[DaveSZ]

25. Don't read this unless you want to be upset:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x706976

[Kanary]

26. What reallyupsets me

1. How threads like yours repeatedly sink like a stone on DU

2. The lack of commitment on the part of DUers to take an activists approach to these issues

3. The fact that unless it's happening to children, it isn't noticed. While it's obviously abhorent for children to be cut from medical care, why is that the only time it's noticed? Why, when those children grow up, it's no longer an issue for "libruls"?

Thanks for posting that...... now, I hope you will try to get people involved in calling their reps..... that this is going on with the silent approval of dems is sickening.

If people can get all upset about the firing of Whoopi, and write tons of letters, then they can damn well do the same for people losing their housing and medical care.

Kanary

[The Flaming Red Head]

27. Welfare reduction

And the bragging that goes on about the cutbacks in welfare being successful make me want to puke. I know people living in housing that is so substandard that it would freak you out and next to canals and bayous so polluted that if your kids stand next to them more than 5 minutes they end up with rashes and ringworm. It ain’t the third world, but it’s about as close as it comes to it and this is in a so-called red state, but the Democratic leaders aren’t any better. Poverty sucks. If you know a queen on welfare point her out to me.

[Kanary]

28. But all the apologists for Clinton will deny this is true.....

Everything you say is spot on, which is sickening.

The DEMs used to be in the forefront of this issue.

They abandoned it, pure and simple.

And Clinton is responsible for a lot of sick kids......

Thank you for posting the truth....

Kanary

[DaveSZ]

30. Several of Clinton's appointees resigned over his welfare repeal:

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/02/loury.htm


As one example of this process, consider the public discussion of welfare policy. Clinton campaigned in 1992 on a promise to "end welfare as we know it." In this way he inoculated himself against the charge of being an old-style liberal Democrat seeking to protect the welfare status quo. Clinton's original plan was, in my view, a good one—but it never had a chance. When, after a protracted struggle with Republican majorities in Congress, a welfare-reform act was passed and signed into law in 1996, it initiated one of the most far-reaching conservative shifts in social policy in the post-New Deal era. The federal entitlement of indigent children to public support was terminated. Strict work requirements for recipients of assistance were put in place, and time limits were imposed on eligibility for assistance. Such a policy seemed to abandon the most vulnerable of our fellow citizens. Peter Edelman , one of several Clinton appointees to resign in protest over the signing of that bill, made a crucial point: much of welfare policy is really better thought of as disability policy. One third of the welfare case load involves some disability in either mothers or children; a third to a half of adult recipients seem to be unemployable, given that in the best "supported work" experiments many were still jobless despite three years of concerted searching. A great number of these folks are socially, psychologically, physically, or mentally impaired. Young children are involved. Why should our response to them properly be conceived along the single dimension of work?

[The Flaming Red Head]

33. I hate the way enlightened liberals stigamtize the poor

psychologically, physically, or mentally impaired.

Why don't they just shoot em.

I'm waiting for that to happen.

[Kanary]

38. I'll volunteer to go first

Because I'm so very sick of this whole society.

I just want it to be broadcast on every news program, for days.

Of course, that's against the rules to say here, so watch for this post to be deleted.

Truth hurts.

Kanary

[The Flaming Red Head]

47. Go jump off the tallest bridge you can find in a pink tutu

but call the media first and dance along the edge then say everything you ever wanted to say. It helps to have fairy dust so you can fly too.

[Kanary]

55. thanks for the great suggestions

you really *are* a sweetheart.

Or, would be if there was a heart under that cement.

[Kanary]

37. I'm glad there were some with enough integrity to resign!

That helps me much to know that!

As for the rest....... All the rationalization for Clinton just prolongs the cuts for poor folk, including the issue that you posted onthe other thread.

I have NO ILLUSIONS that Clinton cares ONE WHIT for the people he hurt..... I heard him on a TV interview saying his only mistake was that he should have done the Welfare cuts FIRST, and gotten in solid with the Repukes, so he would have had more support for his health proposal.

If that isn't the most totally disgusting USING of poor people that one man has done since Roosevelt, then I truly don't know what is.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

Does that give any indication just how sick I am of this crap?

Kanary

[The Flaming Red Head]

48. I have no illusions that any of them dem or repug give a f*ck

about hungry children or poverty.

I didn't vote in 2000 for the first time and I may not vote in this one. It depends on how disgusted I get between now and November.

I'm like you I hate them all.

These conventions are a waste of valuable resources that we could spend on our children, disabled, and elderly populations.

[The Flaming Red Head]

31. I like Clinton

I don't hold him personally responsible for that. It took a lot more than him for these changes to go into effect. And I wanted to add that I will toe the party line like I always do but after the election we are going to have deal with these issues.

[DaveSZ]

32. Of course

You have to also think of the GOP Congress that passed it, but it's something that should have been vetoed.

[The Flaming Red Head]

34. I don't think he had a choice

He's a lot better than the Republicans have been. At least there were jobs when he was President. Now we have deal with no jobs, no benefits, and no hope.

[Kanary]

39. No, of course not......... nobody is "personally responsible"

Too bad about all those people dying......

[The Flaming Red Head]

41. Who died

They were cutting benefits long before Clinton. I had my baby in 1987 and they cut my food stamps and refused to give me housing and then almost didn't hospitalize me when I was in labor and this is in a pro-life state.

[Kanary]

42. THank you for your concern

[The Flaming Red Head]

44. so this is only a troll thread and I fell for it?

I don't think bashing Clinton accomplishes anything for the poor and it certainly doesn't help.

I'm a lot more concerned for the people who are suffering through these cuts than to reduce this issue to a Clinton bashing thread. And most of them ( the truly poor) adore Clinton and Carville, so I'm not going there.

[The Flaming Red Head]

45. duplicate

sorry duplicate thread.

[The Flaming Red Head]

36. Where is Louisiana

I didn't see it on the list. It's the most polluted, most over policed, most republican and the most miserable state in the country.


Even when they suggested universal healthcare the leaders in that state wanted to make paying into an insurance pool mandatory with fines and jail time if you couldn’t comply. What a bunch of bastards run that place.

They hate poor people, black people, women, and gays. And that's the liberals. Don't get me started on the conservatives.

[JNelson6563]

40. The situation is horrible!

I thought the faith based initiatives were going to be the answer! What happened to that?

Just think of how we could have better spent the money we have squandered on Iraq! But no, we just keep shoveling it into that cash incinerator while the poorest among us suffer more and more.

Ugh!

Julie

[The Flaming Red Head]

46. Faith based means lining the pockets

of the people who run churches and not the poor.

[DerekG]

43. Kick

This is a thread that needs to survive.

[GreenPartyVoter]

56. *kick* for the folks who haven't contacted their reps yet.

[Karenina]

57. Kick!

:kick: