Left-wing Democrats are debating DNC protests

[Stone_Spirits]

we're not the only ones talking about this.

Published on Saturday, July 24, 2004 by the Los Angeles Times

Activists Ponder DNC Strategy
Left-wing Democrats are debating whether organized protests will split their ranks.

by Anne-Marie O'Connor

Even in the unified ranks of the Boston antiwar group United for Justice With Peace, fault lines began to form recently when activists started discussing whether to protest at the Democratic National Convention next week.

"Some people feel very strongly that we should have anybody but Bush. They don't want to somehow play into the Republicans' hands," said Cynthia Peters, a coalition organizer.

The group decided to hold "People's Parties" instead, timed with Democratic Party events for convention delegates. Peters even encouraged national activists not to come to Boston, but instead hold People's Parties in their hometowns. Peters has mixed feelings about the approach, which is aimed at bolstering the chances of presumptive Democratic candidate Sen. John F. Kerry.

"The 'anybody but Bush' movement makes people think that if Kerry wins we can all go home," Peters said. "But under Clinton we saw the dismantling of welfare benefits. We saw sanctions against Iraq and the bombing of Baghdad. I am under no illusions that Kerry is going to radically diverge."

-more-
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0724-01.htm

[freetobegay]

1. United we stand divided we fall

What more needs to be said?

[Kanary]

3. United under a spineless leader we fall.

There, I think that completes it.

[freetobegay]

4. And who is the spineless leader?

John Kerry?

[bahrbearian]

6. Pink Tutus

[freetobegay]

32. So is it safe to assume since Kerry is waering a pink tutu

in the picture, you won't vote for him?

[merh]

7. You should wish you had the public service record that Kerry has.

http://www.independent-media.tv/itemprint.cfm?fmedia_id=7073&fcategory_desc=The%20Zero%20and%20The%20Hero

[IndianaGreen]

28. Voting for the war is now called "public service"?

Newspeak rules!

[merh]

49. What I am tired of are the voices that shrilling cry out their positions

but have not ever put themselves in a place where they can do what they demand of others.

His record of public service over the last 30 years speaks for itself.

[Sterling]

52. I will gladly take his seat in the Senate.

I would do a better job. Can I have the money it took him to get to the Senate as well? I think you forget that us complainers would very much like a shot at doing his job but we are excluded from the system for lack of the kinds of funds that corrupts men in power after placing them there.

Eat the rich.

[merh]

59. He was born to a well to do family - he didn't volunteer to fight in

VietNam or become an anti-war protestor or a prosecutor or a Senator for the money. You tend to forget that he mortgaged his house to get the money to run in the Dem primaries. It is you that excludes yourself from the system. Both parties are anxious to have folks that show promise for their issues. It begins in local government, then if you show promise, they help you get to higher levels. Check it out, go to your local Dem party or state Dem party and ask them if they have any candidates of promise.

Your simple views of how the system works and who Kerry is are not adequate reasons why you do not serve, that is called an excuse.

As much as our dem leaders have let us down, we have let them down. They cannot get legislation through because the repukes control the executive and legislative branches. We have failed them because the checks and balances do not work because we have not elected the proper number of dems to offices. You can find whatever excuses you want but the truth is we share the responsibility in the failings of our government.

(IMHO)

[JVS]

60. How hard it must be to be born rich and well connected

I shed a tear for his great suffering

[merh]

63. Jealous? Actually, it may be that his wealth will be an asset to his

service. Maybe he feels that he has enough money and they won't be able to buy him? I don't know that for a fact because I don't know the man. I have simply reviewed his record of service and am able to recognize that he has served the party and the nation.

[Zorra]

25. I agree with you completely, freetobegay,

We are standing against inevitable dictatorship.

Anyone that does not recognize this is a fool.

Sorry, but that's it.

[noahmijo]

2. Here's a question to ask those far leftists who distrust Kerry

Who is more likely to listen to your demands and feelings? Bush or Kerry?

I'm not as far left personally to say that Kerry is Bush lite (in fact I think that notion is completely ridiculous) but I say if Kerry isn't performing to your liking go ahead make your voice known, I believe he'd listen to the masses instead of continuing the "bite me" policy of the bush admin.

[Pastiche423]

5. Do you think he will listen

to the pro-peace people at the convention?

[merh]

8. Do you think the pro-peace people will listen to him? (eom)

[Pastiche423]

18. The pro-peace people are not running for president

kerry is.

[merh]

47. Yes, that is correct, But they can listen to him when he explains his

position relative to the war and pay attention to the whys and the hows that he has taken into account to reach the position he holds.
Trusting his experience and previous record as an anti-war protestor would be a good idea.

[AngryLizard]

21. It's called working together

The pro-peace people aren't running for President, but they should at least listen to him. Without assuming that he's pro-war.

[Zidane]

23. Well you know

if the story posted here recently is accurate (9 in 10 delegates anti-war), and they demand an anti-war plank, yet they don't get it... Well, the democratic party should get a new name. When 9 in 10 delegates want a plank kerry should listen. End of story.

We'll see what happens.

[Sterling]

53. I don't have to assume anything.

He is clearly pro war. What I am really glad I don't have to do is pretend otherwise.

[0rganism]

20. Are there any pro-peace people at the convention?

Will the DNC let Dennis Kucinich in the door?

[WoodrowFan]

67. sheesh

yes, Kucinich is a SPEAKEr at the convention.. At least LOOK before you pass judgement.

http://www.democrats.org/convention/

[Radical Activist]

9. Kerry doesn't listen to the masses

he listens to the swing voters, and I think that's about it. With Kerry in office the voices of protest will get smaller because a Democrat is in the White House, even if Kerry continues the exact same policies. We'll see how he does.

[G_j]

13. that would be nice

because I will be voting for him. However, I haven't the slightest delusion that he will listen.

[AngryLizard]

22. Dude, he was the one leading protests against the Vietnam War

OF COURSE he'll listen. For one thing, there will be hell to pay if he doesn't rectify the Iraq situation once he gets into office. I'm sure Kerry has no trouble remembering what happened to Johnson.

[IndianaGreen]

27. Kerry was one of many leaders of the Vietnam antiwar coalition

And Kerry was not the most effective of all the activists, but he was the one that got the most publicity.

Kerry revisionists are trying to portray Kerry as being a bigger factor and player in the anti-Vietnam war movement than he really was. Take it from a former SDS activist.

[mhr]

33. Sent The Following Letter To The Kerry Campaign - No Reply To Date

Seems they are not listening.

------
Dear Mr Kerry,

I used to believe in the American dream - stay out of trouble, get an
education, serve your country, and work hard with success virtually
guaranteed.

I used to believe that this country was for everyone not just the
wealthy and powerful.

I used to believe that our institutions mattered and that they
represented a tradition of honesty and integrity not a haven for
partisan politics and special interests.

I used to believe that we could make a difference in the world by
example not through lies, threats, torture and war.

I no longer believe.

Now unemployed for four years, I have come to understand that
America is a sham, nothing more than a racket for the ultra-wealthy
to extract their pound of flesh from people like myself. Once exploited,
we become little more than roadkill on the corporate super highway
- discarded like yesterday's news.

The America that I grew up believing in is dead, replaced by cabal of
avarice, deceit and deception all designed to benefit those who have
at the expense of those that have not.

I honestly don't know you Mr. Kerry and can say that you are not
speaking to the issue that matters most to me, a fair and equitable
America:

A nation that understands we are stronger when all
citizens share the fruits of our collective work and sacrifice.

A nation that emphasizes our shared experience and beliefs.

An America that puts people before profits, nation before corporation,
and society before economy.

Maybe you can make a change. I hope that to be true.

Many of us would like to believe again.

Sincerely,

MHR

[TeacherCreature]

58. neither

Did Kerry listen over the last two year? No he did not.

[Colin Ex]

10. STUPID. STUPID. STUPID.

I'm all about free health care, unions to the max, and free beer for everybody, but I do understand this about our political system: CHANGE FUCKING TAKES TIME.

God damn it.

-C

[G_j]

11. time? change?

Things have have been drifting to the right for how long?
Is that the kind of change you're referring to?
I remember when Carter enacted a good energy plan which was immediately trashed by Ray-gun. Now the roads are filled with gas guzzling SUVs and we have invaded and are occupying a country over oil. Time? Time is not a friend when you are drifting in the wrong direction.

[Colin Ex]

12. Look, dude, I want 100 MPG cars. I want free healthcare for everyone.

But we aren't going to go from the drift rightward to super-left right away, no matter who wins the presidency, or the House, or the Senate.

At the risk of sounding like a snobbish asshole, if you don't understand that, you don't have a good grasp on the way the American political system operates.

(PS - workers of the world unite)

-C

[G_j]

14. yes I can grasp the fact

that the American political system is in an accelerated downward spiral.
But don't worry I'll be drinking the ABB Koolaid along with everyone else. :toast:

[lojasmo]

15. Mmmm. Kool aid

I'll vote for Kerry if I have to.

[G_j]

16. I know I don't have a choice

Bush and Co planned and committed war crimes, undermined hundreds of environmental protections, sponsored torture, raided the treasury and possibly even let 9-11 happen OP. All else aside, people like that cannot under any circumstances be allowed to remain in office.

[Stone_Spirits]

17. that appears to be the conclusion

that many of the lefties the article talks about have come to also.

[lojasmo]

19. Depends on what state you're in.

i'm in Mn which is a "safe state" I'll see what the numbers are in November. People in solidly red states have no obligation to vote for kerry if they're disillusioned with the systen, the democratic party, or the democratic candidate.

Everybody should vote their conscience whether it means ABB, nader, Kerry, whatever. That's what voting is all about.

[G_j]

34. my state is not considered "safe"

I make no attempt to tell others how to vote, though I like the approach laid out by Medea Benjamin and others in the "open letter".

[ulysses]

44. same here.

I'm voting for Kerry even though Georgia will go for Bush again, but I'm not going to yell at anyone who goes with the safe state thing.

[Stone_Spirits]

48. thumbs up

it is fine to try to convince somebody, but to yell at them, call them a fool, that they want 4 more years of AWOL, bla, bla,bla

is very bad manners
and never works :-)

[Zidane]

24. Yea right

That's why bush has brought us from relative stability to being on the brink of fascism within under 4 years. Apparently change only takes time if you're on the left.

[Suzi Creamcheese]

26. It seems like putting demonstrators in cages is a little much

People should be able to demonstrate if they want to, that's the American way. How would allowing peaceful protests damage Kerry? They are just a reminder that a lot of people are unhappy with Bush.

[Robbien]

29. Too bad the GOP has put Dem protesters in cages for the last years

"Free Speech Zones" cages have been used regularly since Bush got selected. It is now SOP to put protesters in cages.

Now for the first time GOP protesters are being put in cages and there is publicity on it. Where was the outcry for the last four years?

[IndianaGreen]

30. The Left has been complaining about "free speech" zones for years

They were originally called "First Amendment" zones, but he Left has been complaining about them and the PATRIOT Act since they became reality.

Who cares what the RW does? The important thing is what is happening to our civil liberties in this country under the pretext of the war on terror.

[Robbien]

31. It would be nice if all this hoopla got

"free speech" zones banned altogether.

Nice to see the issue getting some ink.

[IndianaGreen]

35. Wait until the GOP Convention

The Republicans are going to have some really nasty military anti-personnel equipment that uses sound and microwaves to either blast your ear drums off or fry your skin. Nice guys!

[G_j]

37. like this?

this showed up at the Miami FTAA protests. Nobody seems to know what it is though there was speculation it is an ultrasound device.
Maybe it just emits bad vibes (oh thats right, Republicans don't need any help with that)

[Sterling]

55. And not one Dem will oppose these tactics.

Everyone get a gun and load up on ammo.

[Sterling]

54. If we reach out to other Americans on the right and left over this it just

I have sent out mass emails to my RW friends expressing my disgust with the DNC concentration camp. I have asked them to join me in opposing this from both parties.

Fuck the party I am trying to hang on to our freedom. If the party does not defend that freedom it has become my enemy.

That pen is a very tangible example of what they think of average people.

[kiahzero]

62. Yup

Because they're trying to protect the people going to the convention, they must think of everyone not going to the convention as a peasant.

:eyes:

[kiahzero]

61. "Free Speech Zones" are a perversion of a SC ruling

In Hill v. Colorado, a case involving abortion clinic protestors, the Court held that time, place, and manner restrictions were constitutional, so long as the restrictions were content-neutral. As we can see from many press reports of anti-Bush speakers being moved while pro-Bush speakers are allowed to remain near the path the President will take, the restrictions put in place by the Bush Administration.

So it's rather unlikely that you'll see them banned altogether any time soon - for the Supreme Court to overturn itself in four years would be astounding.

[Suzi Creamcheese]

64. Then this would be a good time to set the better example

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. Responses to the slams on Clinton...

1. Dismantling of welfare benefits:

What was Clinton supposed to do? He could have vetoed the legislation but the GOPers had the votes...including a good number of Dems in Congress....to override the veto.

2. The sanctions against Iraq

The sanctions against Iraq were started by the UN when Bush I was President. Again, how was Clinton supposed to end the sanctions with Congress and the Pentagon aligned against him?

3. The bombing of Baghdad:

As I recall, the bombing was done at night against unoccupied government buildings with highly accurate cruise missiles in retaliation for previous Iraqi actions. Unlike FratBoy, Clinton actually employed methods that minimized the loss of life.

Yes, Cynthia, this is ALL about ABB. What alternative do any of us really have? If we don't get the NeoCons out of the centers of American power, we will really see what FratBoy is capable of doing. At least Kerry is capable of rational thought.

[IndianaGreen]

38. You forgot to mention the deaths of over a million Iraqi children

directly resulting from UN sanctions. Sanctions that stayed in place thanks to the tremendous pressure the Clinton Administration put on the UN.

When questioned about US responsibility for the genocide of Iraqi children, Clinton's Secretary of State Madelyn Albright justified the killings by saying:

“I think that is a very hard choice, but the price, we think, the price is worth it.”

http://www.fff.org/comment/com0311c.asp

Big Dog was still President when the following article was published by Common Dreams:

Published on Friday, August 11, 2000 in The Irish Times
UN Sanctions Against Iraq Only Serve US Ambition
by Denis J. Halliday

Like many Irish readers, and others overseas who approached me requesting a response, I was shocked by the degree of over-simplification and misinformation contained in the article by the US Secretary of State, Ms Madeleine Albright, published in these pages (August 4th).

Ms Albright ordains that the UN sanctions must continue. This despite their failure and human cost, as determined by UNICEF to be the death of some 5,000 children under five years of age each month, and that excludes teenagers, adults and the elderly also dying unnecessarily under the UN embargo. One can only assume that she calls for its continuation to meet American ambitions for suppression of Iraq and control of the Middle East.

The status quo sustained by US-driven sanctions has made for a certain stability within Iraq under Saddam Hussein as required by nervous neighbours. This is combined with an instability outside of Iraq enabling the US, Britain and others to sell vast amounts of weapons to the Arab countries. Thus the US economy is thriving on arms sales with the resulting impoverishment of the Arab world.

In addition, this instability has allowed US control of oil resources, one of the underlying ambitions of President Bush when he set in motion the Gulf War under the respectability of the UN in 1990.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/081100-104.htm

[Media_Lies_Daily]

42. I guess you missed the part about the GOP -controlled Congress...

...tell me what Clinton could have done at ANY point in his presidency to eliminate the sanctions.

It simply did not matter what anyone thought in the Executive Branch from 1992-2000 because the Legislative Branch was driving the train. Even the input Clinton got from the Pentagon was heavily in favor of doing far more than just imposing the UN sanctions. IMHO, anyone saying that Clinton could have successfully dropped the sanctions is either terribly naive or deliberately obtuse.

And no, I haven't forgotten the deaths of anyone involved in this sorry chapter of American history, least of all the Iraqi children. That was nothing but a cheap shot on your part.

[IndianaGreen]

46. The only "cheap shot" here was the 8-year bombing campaign

against a country that never posed a threat to the United States. The Pentagon admitted last year that the bombing over the "no-fly zones," which often took place hundreds of miles from the zones, were intended to soften Iraq for a future US invasion.

BTW, the UN never imposed or sanctioned the "no fly zones."

[ulysses]

39. re: welfare

The "the GOP made him do it" argument would be more convincing if Clinton hadn't campaigned on the promise to end welfare as we knew it...and done so back when Congress was held by the Dems.

[G_j]

40. and a veto would have made a clear statement n/t

[G_j]

41. how was Clinton supposed to end the sanctions

Again, how was Clinton supposed to end the sanctions with Congress and the Pentagon aligned against him?

did they also put duct tape over his mouth?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

43. Whatever you say.

[G_j]

45. whatever the position of the Pentagon and Congress

if he believed the sanctions were wrong he could have easily said so.
I am pretty sure that he still maintains the sanctions were justified.

My point was that you seem to imply that if his hands weren't tied he may not have supported the sanctions. I don't think that is true.

[The Blue Knight]

50. What has alaways amazed me about the far left....

Is that they'll bitch about Kerry being "Bush Lite" (bullshit) and stuff, but they never do anything about it. In fact, we have the far left to thank that Bush is in power in the first place.

You reap what you sow.

(And before I get flamed; I consider myself a Dennis Kucinich/Paul Wellstone Democrat. Does the party have flaws? Yup. But bitching about it on here 24/7 does absolutely jack shit).

[G_j]

51. you are referring

to replies made to a post that was referring to statements made in the original article. I'm not the one who brought it up.

BTW IMO, the phrase "far left" that is so generously thrown around these days has it's origins in the Reagan play book, right next to the "L-word"

[Sterling]

57. We have ditto heads on DU

And they don't even know it. I don't think so anyway.

[Sterling]

56. We have the far right of the Dem party to thank for Bush.

The list does not end there. I could thank the DLC all day for the lovely things they have done for our country. The telcom act of 96 was simply genius. welfare reform and lax corprate supervision. Ofh thank you sensible moderate corporatists.

[Cascadian]

65. This is why the left is so divided.

While these issues are important and should be addressed, there is hardly a unified voice within the left in this country and it is dishartening. Especially at this time, everybody from the center left to the far left must come together because all of our futures are at stake. All our pet issues won't mean very much if Bush is allowed a second term. I keep saying that and some people just won't listen. WAKE UP FELLOW LEFTIES!!!


John

[madfloridian]

66. This is not about lefty/righty. It is about a deadly war, and the truth.

People are beginning to sense that we are not stopping in Iraq. This is about the plain and simple truth. Bush lied us to war, and he needs to be called on it.

Many of us are sensing that going on to remap the mideast will occur under either candidate. That is scaring people.