Okay, now that I've spent about 8 hours gardening and cooled down

[Walt Starr]

I'm no longer as upset with Barack Obama as I was yesterday. I admit it, I'm a hothead and will blow up with little provocation.

I look at it this way, If Barack Obama couldn't torque me off, he would stand absolutely no chance whatsoever of being successful in the Democratic Party. In fact, if he couldn't torque me off he probably wouldn't have gotten as far as he has and I probably would have never heard of him.

I recognize that I am fairly radically out of the mainstream. Obama comes closer to representing most of my interests than nearly any Democrat ever has, and he has more of an oppurtunity to succeed in getting things done and put changes in place than any democrat I've seen for a long time.

So, after a good night's rest, I'm as behind Obama as I was on Saturday. sorry if I torqued off any DUers, but like I said. I'm a hothead.

[latebloomer]

1. I could understand why you'd be pissed

But I couldn't understand why you were talking about voting repug.

Greens, yes. Socialist Workers Party? Maybe. Libertarian? OK. But REPUG?!?

[Walt Starr]

8. Eh, I figure why be a hypocrite

If I can't vote Dem, I'd have to go Repuke because voting for anything other than Dem is the same as voting Repuke.

[havocmom]

2. Walt Starr, that took some spine to say

I'm impressed. And you made a whole lot of sense. Now, we need to keep this kicked for those who are away from computers who were appalled by yesterday's uproar.

[TexasSissy]

34. Well, I missed what happened, and this post doesn't say, actually.

So.....what happened? Do share!

[havocmom]

37. There was a lot of rather rabid Obama bashing around here yesterday

Seems some were not happy with his diplomatic use of the language and others who were trying to make the point essentially that rabid dogs, even yellow dogs, get shot instead of votes.

I stayed out of it cuz I am old enough to recognize a circular firing squad when I see one. (Took a long time to learn that lesson though ;) )

[TexasSissy]

41. That still doesn't tell me what he said or did. Can someone tell me what

happened? I watched the news yesterday but didn't see anything about him. Did it make the news?

[ClassWarrior]

42. He said he thought Dubya was misguided but well-intentioned.

[TexasSissy]

47. Thanks.

[havocmom]

44. you have a star by your screen name

go do a search. There were lots of threads and lots of heat. You want the readers digest version, I gave it to you. You want the whole story, the search feature is great to track down the whole enchilada.

[bleedingheart]

3. gardening has a way of getting you to reflect and calm down

glad to hear you aren't "torqued" anymore.

[havocmom]

5. Maybe we Walt-Watchers need a code to suggest he go cool off a bit

before he Naders-himself-into-a-corner ;)

Walt Starr, mind if I suggest you 'get your trowel' next time I notice you going too far off the campaign trail? As one old radical Crusader Rabbit to another? Hard to learn to temper ones passion and modulate it enough to not stampede the rest of the herd and I found it helpful to use the buddy system to help me learn to avoid episodes like yesterday.

[bleedingheart]

9. I love it!!... Nader's himself into a corner

that's a good phrase...I will have to remember it!

[Walt Starr]

12. Just say...

"Walt, isn't there some work that needs to be done in your yard right about now?"

[havocmom]

25. Sounds good! One ol radical gardener to another!

And along that line, does anybody know if pickled beets can be frozen? Or will that make them mushy like when one freezes potatoes in a stew?

I have a bumper crop of beets and am wondering if I really want to run the canning kettle long enough to get them all processed in this heat.

Hey, the news this past spring was pretty annoying. I spent a LOT of time out planting beets :evilgrin:

Will spend a lot of time this winter pissing pink.

[Walt Starr]

27. Oh man, I grew NO BEETS this year

and my favorite pickles are combinations of pickled beets and eggs!

You know the eggs are properly pickled when they have purplish yolks.

YUM!

[havocmom]

32. If you are up for it, PM a shipping address

and the wicked gardener of the west will send beets. I love pickled eggs too, but just don't do them anymore.

Ever have pear butter? :evilgrin:

[Bjornsdotter]

48. No on freezing pickled beets.....

....however, you can store them in a container of sand somewhere that is cool, a root cellar, basement or a refrigerator.

Cut the greens off just about an 2 inches above the beet, and submerge in sand so that the stems are exposed. Place in the cool area....they will keep for months.

Hope this helps...

Cheers,
Kim :toast:

[Flubadubya]

4. That's just fine Walt...

but it still pains me to see our Dem leaders have to be (or appear to be) disingenuous just because the Rethugs have framed the debate such that for the Dem to stand up and tell the truth means political suicide for him/her.

Perhaps its more the "toxic" political environment we live in today, but it sure is hard to let dissembling Dems off the hook every time.

[wtmusic]

6. "Closer...most... nearly..."

Maybe one day we won't have to use all those qualifiers with our reps

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. Apology accepted, Walt.

Obama certainly didn't deserve the onslaught of hatred that was flung his way yesterday. I'm glad you've had a change of heart. He's GOOD for our party. He's GOOD for Illinois. We are lucky to live here. I'm looking forward to his speech. I think DUers will be pleasantly surprised.

[HamdenRice]

10. Are you really ... O/T

Are you really a trial lawyer? Just curious. Maybe this should have been a PM.

[Walt Starr]

13. Actually, "Trial Lawyer" in my sig is a Google Bomb

It links directly to a biography of Abraham Lincoln who happens to have been a Trial Lawyer.

There is a concerted effort to get the first link that comes up in a Google search on "Trial Lawyer" to be Abraham Lincoln's Bio.

:evilgrin:

[ClassWarrior]

11. Please, then, learn to control yourself.

It's what I expect of my 10 year old. I refuse to allow a supposedly grown adult to trash my party unity because he hasn't learned to control a childish temper tantrum.

[Walt Starr]

18. Well, it is vastly important that we express our discontent with all

elected officials regardless of party affiliation.

If you see me going off on a Democrat in the future and you don't like it, just ask me if I have anything that needs to be done in the yard.

:evilgrin:

[Kanary]

20. well, aren't we in a judgemental mood today

perhaps you have some gardening to do?

Kanary

[ClassWarrior]

22. I don't garden.

But I do have some chocklit for people who are nice to me...

[Kanary]

23. maybe it might be a good hobby to take up

Y'know, I'm nice to people who are nice to me. It works that way.

But I'm really sick to death of all this parental crap. It's driving a lot of people out of the party that you value so highly.

After all this is over, people is all we have. When we sacrifice people and relationships for party, we're done.

Kanary

[ClassWarrior]

24. Hey, we're going to be screwed enough by the RW press this week.

We don't need to be doing it to ourselves. We're all mature. We can discuss things in level-headed way without hyperbole or panic. And judging by his comments on this thread, I think Walt would be the first to admit he was hyperbolic and panicky.

[Kanary]

31. treating each other in a mature manner

does NOT include being the heavy parent.

Yes, we are getting screwed, and therefore we need each other. You're quite right on that. BUT all of us has a life full of Lush Rimball-type ugliness, and doesn't need it from fellow dems, just because it's so much easier to use "unity" to bash another person into submission.

Several of us have tried to talk calmly and rationally about the divides that have been going on here and getting stronger. All we get for our efforts is more bashing. THat leaves people who are being bashed with two options........ finally bash back, or leave. Does it REALLY surprise you that more anger from the Walts among us is coming out? REALLY?

Many here are telling us to leave. Is that what you agree with?

Kanary

[ClassWarrior]

33. You have the wrong person, I think.

I have NEVER bashed anyone here, and this is the first and only time I have used that tone with anyone at DU. fwiw, I think it was deserved but that's because I saw A LOT of people - Walt included - "bashing another person into submission" yesterday, to use your words. I finally had enough. And while I spoke strongly, my words didn't even get near the level of vitriol that was bandied around here yesterday by people who are supposedly allies.

[Kanary]

35. What I'm trying to tell you is that many of us have been bashed

and I'm sure that you've seen it, and noticed it.

It has had an effect. Does that matter?

Since you didn't reply to it, I'll repeat it...... many of us have been told we're no longer needed, welcome or wanted, and to just leave. Some of us even get PMs to that effect.

Wouldn't it maybe be a good idea to also speak up when that is happening?

Expecting people to continue taking that kind of abuse and to never, ever respond by blowing off some steam is a little unrealistic.

I'm sharing with you what has hurt. Does it matter?

Kanary

[ClassWarrior]

36. Of course it matters, K...

And I'd be the LAST one to say anyone is unwanted here! We need everyone we can get. Dammit, last election I was one of the few voices out here in the wilderness pleading (not on DU - unfortunately I wasn't here yet) for the Gore and Nader folks to get along and work together against the common enemy. Both sides had legitimate points. Okay - agree to disagree and come together. We have bigger fish to fry.

And yes, I will definitely speak up when I see the kinds of things you describe happening. Unity is unity. Period. ALL coming together. No, not just for some, but for everyone (to quote Burt Bacharach).

[Kanary]

38. thank you for hearing...... I"m on my last legs

This bashing of EACH OTHER has to stop.

Some of us are being hurt more than you know.

Kanary

[ClassWarrior]

40. It hurts me too, my friend.

On the political spectrum, I think you and I pretty nearly side-by-side. But I understand marketing and communications, and I realize how important it is to be practical - to play the game for maximum psychological effect - to keep the rage in check so we can act strategically. It's the reason the RW has made such gains over the last two decades.

If you get a chance today, pick up "What's The Matter With Kansas" by Thomas Frank. I just started it, but so far it's excellent.

[Kanary]

43. I'm waaaay past playing games

Just putting one foot in front of the other is dicey. One breath at a time is about all I can manage.

If that's not OK, then I can hand in my resignation. Some of us are just doing the best we can.

I'm #82 on the wait list for that book. I hope it still has most of it's pages by that time. :hi:

Kanary

[ClassWarrior]

45. Well, then I'll play the game for both of us.

You just help keep the group together. Sound fair?

:hug:

[K8-EEE]

28. Agreed!! He Apologized But I Don't Think...

there's anything wrong with blowing off steam here...God knows we are living in frustrating times.

[Kanary]

39. It's acceptable to "blow off steam" against * & CO, but not about

most DEms who screw up (Zell and Joementum being the exceptions).

It's also acceptable here to blow off steam on the heads of other posters. I have yet to figure out why we are expected to be very nice and forgiving of a Dem politician who blows it, but it's acceptable to bash each other to bits. Why is there that double-standard?

Kanary, who understands your frustration

[unfrigginreal]

14. You were right to be pissed

Obama is a great candidate and will make a great Senator but he's making a mistake by describing Bush as well intentioned. Our spokesmen need to learn that 'not bashing Bush' does not mean 'subtle praise.'

If we don't speak out and put pressure on them when they make mistakes, then what will make them change? You won't find me in the 'never criticize our own' camp ever again. I spent too many years there and I'm not happy with the results.

[Flubadubya]

16. Careful...

you're likely to be either ignored or flamed. This is apparently not the time or place to resurrect the "old" discussion. This is the time for "healing". Sorry.

[ClassWarrior]

17. Agreed.

We need to get in their faces EVERY SINGLE TIME they let us down - but we can't allow these things serve to divide us. And that's what Walt's rant threatened to do yesterday.

[Walt Starr]

19. To be perfectly honest, I didn't start any threads on the subject

I only responded to threads already out there.

[ClassWarrior]

21. I didn't say you started any threads, did I?

Nor did I say you were the only guilty party. But I did say you ranted. And rant you did.

fwiw, I do forgive you. Now don't do it again.

[Walt Starr]

26. I know, I just wanted to make it clear

because there were so many threads started and one might get the implication that I started one of those threads with a long rant (which is where most of them started).

Every now and again it's good to get some of this stuff offf our chests here because in the end, we've all got to be united in the effort to eject the Republicans from power.

[ClassWarrior]

29. Agreed.

As long as it's civil. The public may not respond to rational reasoning, be we certainly can.

[NoPasaran]

15. I knew you'd chill, Walt

And remember... I'm always willing to trade you my Senator John "Box Turtle" Cornyn for Obama any day of the week!

[havocmom]

30. "Senator 'Box Turtle' Cornyn - keeping sex safe for reptiles!"

Would make a dandy fine bumper sticker, no?

[lil-petunia]

46. hey hothead, you gotta to understand, in Illinois

we bathe our pols in molten steel. They have to be careful just to come out unscathed.
or unscaifed. Thanks for thinking about what he said, and did not say.

he's a good man, better than most that come from the political-criminal combine called the repub-demo party of Illinois. (most elected officials have criminal defense counsel on their staffs - just in case the next indictment names them)