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Any debunking on this sent from my brother? Another idiot Bush lover.

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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 09:54 AM
Original message
Any debunking on this sent from my brother? Another idiot Bush lover.
> > > > > > INTERESTING FACTS:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Learn these facts to properly debate
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > our poor misguided friends &
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > family before election time !!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > There were 39 combat related killings
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > in Iraq during the month of January.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the fair city of Detroit there were
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 35 murders in the month of January.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's just one American city,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > about as deadly as the entire war torn country
of
> > > >Iraq.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > When some claim President Bush shouldn't
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > have started this war, state the following ..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > FDR...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > led us into World War II.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > an average of 112,500 per yr .
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Truman...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > finished that war and started one in Korea,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > North Korea never attacked us.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > an average of 18,334 per year.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > John F. Kennedy...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > started the Vietnam conflict in 1962
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Vietnam never attacked us.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Johnson...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > an average of 5,800 per year.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Clinton...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > went to war in Bosnia without UN or French
> >consent,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bosnia never attacked us.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a
> >platter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > three times by Sudan and did nothing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the two years since terrorists attacked us
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > President Bush has ..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > liberated two countries,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > crushed the Taliban,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > crippled al-Qaida,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > put nuclear inspectors in Libya,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Iran and North Korea
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > without firing a shot,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > and captured a terrorist who slaughtered
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 300,000 of his own people.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Democrats are complaining
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > about how long the war is taking, but...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > It took less time to take Iraq
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > than it took Janet Reno to take the
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Branch Davidian compound.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > That was a 51 day operation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > We've been looking for evidence of
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > chemical weapons in Iraq for less
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > time than it took Hillary Clinton to
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > and the Marines to destroy the Medina
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > call the police after his Oldsmobile
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > sank at Chappaquiddick.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > It took less time to take Iraq than it took
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > to count the votes in Florida!!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Military moral is high!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to
> > > > > > > realize
> > > >the
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > facts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > PASS IT ON.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. I love these arguments
That cite the errors and failings of previous presidents as excuses for the errors and failings of the current resident. Real convincing.
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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. I Received This a Week Ago
From a pretty good friend. Here's my response to him (and everyone else he sent it to):

====================================================================

Honestly, everyone had to realize I'd respond to this. I honestly could go on all day about it, but I will spare you because most people frankly don't care. But just a handful of small points. If you want any of the other ones dealt with, just ask. I'll be happy to clear up any of these things for you.


There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

You're comparing 39 combat related killings in Iraq to 35 murders in Detroit. The problem with that is that you're choosing to only count AMERICANS that died. Since the war began last year, it is estimated that there have been over 13,000 civilian casualties. That boils down to over 850 casualties per month, and as violent as Detroit may be, there aren't 850 people dying there a month. But if for some reason you think that Iraqi civilian deaths aren't important, then consider that those 39 combat killings come from an American soldier population of about 130,000. If that is compared with Detroit's population of slightly under a million, that would be like if 269 people had been murdered in Detroit in January. You have to compare apples to oranges.


Liberated two countries.

That depends on your definition of "liberated". In Afghanistan, the capital city of Kabul is about the only place in the entire country that isn't under the control of warlords. Women still cannot go out in public without fear of being brutally attacked or worse. Children, particularly young girls, cannot go to school still. Hamid Karzai, the guy in charge, is owned by the United States and has almost no control over his own government. He is constantly the target of assassination attempts. The majority of the country remains an easy haven for terrorists, and we less troops in that entire country than we have police officers in just the Manhattan part of New York City. And Iraq -- It's still early to say exactly how effective the "new" government will have since we just turned it over a few weeks ago. Still, there are lots of places with no clean drinking water and no electricity -- places where those things existed before we attacked. And despite Iraq's faults, it was still one of the most open-minded Middle Eastern countries regarding women's rights. Not any more, with radical clerics gaining more and more clout. And obviously, most people do not feel "liberated" from the possibility that they will be killed in bomb blasts or other attacks at any moment.


Crushed the Taliban.

The Taliban continue to operate inside Afghanistan. One hour ago, two Afghan government officials and their driver were killed by Taliban fighters in Qalat. In the past year, the Taliban have attacked and killed over 800.


Crippled al-Qaeda.

Al-Qaeda continues to grow stronger, according to many reports -- partially because Iraq distracted US forces away from pursuing them, and partially because the invasion of Iraq served as a powerful tool to recruit people. Al-Qaeda is still so strong, in fact, that the United States Department of Homeland Security just issued another warning about their plans to attack the United States this summer.


Put Nuclear Inspectors in Libya, Iran, and North Korea Without Firing a Shot

Libya's decision to disarm was widely seen as an effort to allow it to enter European economic markets and ease pressure from the Lockerbie bombing. Iran and North Korea have both admitted to having nuclear programs and neither have announced any steps to disarm.


Captured a Terrorist Who Slaughtered 300,000 of His Own People

Over the course of two decades, much of that time while he was our ALLY against Iran, and some of it with weapons that WE gave him.

Okay, last one:


He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing.

According to the Washington Post: "The Clinton administration struggled to find a way to accept the offer in secret contacts that stretched from a meeting at a Rosslyn hotel on March 3, 1996, to a fax that closed the door on the effort 10 weeks later. Unable to persuade the Saudis to accept bin Laden, and lacking a case to indict him in U.S. courts at the time, the Clinton administration finally gave up on the capture."

Clinton did not "do nothing" -- he wanted bin Laden. But at the time he was offered, the case against him was flimsy. He hadn't attacked Khobar Towers yet, he hadn't attacked the USS Cole, he hadn't attacked the World Trade Center or the Pentagon. The Saudis wouldn't accept the deal, so Sudan expelled bin Laden to Afghanistan, which is where he had lived when Reagan was giving him money, guns, and training to fight the Russians.
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Good job, here was my response along with yours:
I believe the big difference is the reason they all went to war. You all seem to have the shortest memories I know, because Iraq was suppose to have WMD's and be an imminent threat, the smoking gun, the mushroom cloud threat. So now it's because all the other presidents went to war, but didn't lie about the reasons they went to war, it's okay that Bush is a liar about why he went to war? By the way, Bush is taking yet ANOTHER vacation in Crawford, the Vacation President is at it again.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. That's been making the rounds lately...
Edited on Mon Jul-26-04 10:02 AM by JHB
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. anybody know where the debunking is for this one?
This is an interesting bit of information that you don't hear much about in the media ---

a.. Enron's chairman did meet with the president and the vice president in the Oval Office.

b.. Enron gave $420,000 to the president's party over three years.

c.. It donated $100,000 to the president's inauguration festivities.

d.. The Enron chairman stayed at the White House 11 times.

e. The corporation had access to the administration at its highest levels and even enlisted the Commerce and State Departments to grease deals for it.

f.. The taxpayer-supported Export-Import Bank subsidized Enron for more than $600 million in just one transaction. Scandalous!!

g.. BUT . . . the president under whom all this happened WASN'T George W. Bush.

h.. SURPRISE . . . . . . . . . It was Bill Clinton!


Please pass this on so the WHOLE Country will know. The Media Won't!


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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Simple - especially for d
Have them pull up the "lincoln bedroom" list that Clinton had to produce a few years ago - KEN LAY ISN'T ON THERE!

This is f-ing bull-; C is definitely for Bush43

G is a total lie, as is H.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Here ya go, from snopes
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. thank you both
stevied and zbdent.


Cher
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. 39 combat murders in baghdad
Edited on Mon Jul-26-04 10:14 AM by seabeyond
and 35 in detriot

k....how many total murders in baghdad. why are they comparing only combat deaths. this town, baghdad since u.s. has gone in has erupted in chaos. dont stop on combat deaths, what are the total deaths in baghdad.
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. Since the first paragraph is complete nonsense, no need to read
further. What is it with this "39 combat related killings" (do they mean Americans?) and "35 murders in Detroit" comparison. If 39 POLICE OFFICERS were killed in Detroit in January, I'm sure even the nitwit author of this email would notice. How can anyone with half a brain compare US combat deaths in Iraq with the murder of ordinary citizens in the US? Where is the number of IRAQI civilians killed in Baghdad in the month of January? Now that might be a comparison, although how anyone could compare a WAR ZONE with a US city is beyond me.

WHO WRITES THIS DRIVEL AND WHO ARE THE DOLTS WHO PASS IT ALONG? I want names because I'm sick and tired of the anonymity of idiocy.
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I have no idea who the author is, but the people who pass this along
are all the idiots I'm related to and have to deal with. That's why it's nice to debunk it simply on factual terms. Most people believe the spins and lies and of course they hide, because they know what they do is wrong. These people know they are stupid, but calling them stupid only makes them more determined to vote for the guy who is King Of Stupid, Dumbya himself.
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Kholst Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
10. body count
Edited on Mon Jul-26-04 10:43 AM by Kholst
29 "hostile fire" American deaths, 10 "helicopter crash" American deaths, 8 "non-hostile" American deaths, and 5 "non-hostile" UK deaths - http://icasualties.org/oif/prdDetails.aspx?hndRef=1-2004
121-126 combat-related civilian deaths that were reported by multiple reputable news sources with enough details to make this list - http://www.iraqbodycount.net/bodycount_date_down.htm
Unknown number of enemy combatant deaths.
Unknown number of murders

Leaving out the non-hostile and helicopter (though I don't know if those crashes were in hostile situations), that gives a minumum of 150 combat-related deaths, not counting enemy combatants, in the month of January, 2004.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/bodycount_date_down.htm

> > > > > > > There were 39 combat related killings
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > in Iraq during the month of January.....
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
12. There is as much integrity in this post as their fearless leader possesses
Zero just like what their leader is.
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