2,000 U.S. troops killed in Iraq: Russian expert

[donsu]

http://www.hindu.com/2004/07/24/stories/2004072402401400.htm

MOSCOW, JULY 23. The United States suffers far heavier casualties in Iraq than it officially admits, a Russia military diplomat claimed.

The actual U.S. military losses in Iraq may have reached 2,000 personnel, more than twice the official figure of 900, as Washington badly understates its casualty statistics, a military diplomatic source told the Itar-Tass news agency.

"Official statistics do not include casualties among non-U.S. nationals who sign up to serve in the American armed forces in order to get a U.S. `green card.' According to reliable information the share of non-Americans in the U.S. force in Iraq may be as high as 60 per cent," the source said. "The real number of U.S. losses may be as high as 2,000 casualties and up to 12,000 wounded," the military diplomat said.
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[shoelace414]

1. whaaaa?

There are memebers of the American Military not counted in casuality stats?

[donsu]

2. I've read about this before in other articles

the media will not touch it

so it seems

[shoelace414]

4. So these people

they have a military rank and wear typical military uniforms?

[democratreformed]

3. I have heard this before

I wouldn't doubt it a bit.

[genius]

5. I have inside information: Over 18,000 wounded as of a few months ago

I know a relative of someone who is in charge of a hopsital in Germany and that's how many seriously-wounded Americans they have seen.

[SoFlaJet]

6. My brother a Vietnam vet told me

that the way they're counting casualties is if a soldier is killed IN COUNTRY then and only then are they listed as an Iraq KIA.If they are wounded and flown to say,Japan they are not counted.This coming from guys in the know.He insists that this is the case.

[luaneryder]

8. Not to mention SO types

Very often they are not counted as KIA, MIA, etc. No stats for them. There were 18-20 soldier deaths during the Grenada action in the 80's that the general public were not told about.

[democratreformed]

9. That's what I've heard too.

Not from anyone "in the know", but I have heard that.

[luaneryder]

11. As far as Grenada

I know because I was in SO at the time. Believe it that DoD will try to skew, hide and lie as much as possible.

[PatriotGames]

12. From what I heard that is exactly how they do it

Also, if there is an incident involving casualties but no one is killed, they do not report it.

[PatriotGames]

7. I don't discount these type of reports

Just the mere fact that out of all of the US forces over there,the chance that people like Pat Tillman were killed makes me wonder. The odds are just too high for me to think out of 140,000 people, the famous guy is one of the 900 to be killed.

[jimshoes]

13. I'm not so sure Pat Tillman

would have been counted among the 900 since he was killed in Afghanistan and not Iraq. Could be wrong though.

[PatriotGames]

14. He isn't counted in the 900+

It's just strange that out of all the soldier's, 150,000+, in the middle east, this guy gets killed. There's got to be things we don't hear.

[tom_paine]

10. How sad is it that the Russains are exposing our Pravda

But the Busheviks are as lying and corrupt as Soviets.

[TeacherCreature]

15. I know a man in Germany

He lives near the military hospital there and he said the same thing about six weeks ago.

[NewJeffCT]

19. possible explanation

I'm not saying it is right, but I believe if a soldier is wounded and not killed immediately, he or she is not counted as a KIA, even though approximately 1/8 of those wounded end up dying from their wounds (Vietnam was 1/4). I believe if you take 1/8 of the wounded total, you'd come close to 2,000.

[Saltdog]

16. I don't know what our policy is, but

the French Foreign Legion has, for decades, encouraged foreign nationals to join up under an expressed written agreement that upon completion of their service, they are granted French citizenship. It would not be out-of-this-world unordinary for us to adopt a similar policy to generate field numbers when we are stretched thin and want to avoid a draft before the election.

It was only a few months ago that we were caught "buying laborers" from India to work in Iraq. Employment agencies in India post job listings for work in Kuwait. When people show up for the jobs, they put them on buses and then fly them to Iraq. A few people escaped and complained to the Indian government. Apparently, when they realized they were in Iraq and wanted to leave, an American soldier said they could not because "we paid money for you" and forced them to work at gun point. The Indian government has no official estimates of how many Indian nationals have been kidnapped for slave labor in Iraq.

America's finest indeed.

[sleipnir]

17. This is total B.S....IMO,

Do you realize how hard it is to "cover-up" a thousand deaths? Not quite likely! Even if they were only counting in-country deaths, the death rates for places like Japan, Germany, Italy, and US would be spiking on offical reports and someone would have noticed by now. If all the sudden the usual, say, 50 deaths military (accidental, murder, suicide) a year in say, Japan, now goes up to 300, it would be impossible to hide from the offical records the military has to keep.

This story has been floated since the beginning of the war, and oddly it's almost always a Russian who's spreading the tale. I'm not buying it on the scale the Russians are trying to sell.

Now the new spin is that the military is not counting "green card soldiers."

I strongly believe that the numbers are being skewed, but not by more than 100 or, possibly even 200. It's just too hard to cover up in todays modern world. Russia was able to undercount deaths in Afghanistan because they had a friggin' Communist government with little to no paper accountability. The US still works much differently than the old Soviet Union (for now....)

This is possibly still politics at work, Russia is still pissed that we invaded and took away a lot of their oil interests. Note, the two largest contracts involved with Iraq oil before the invasion were with Russian companies. Why not try to incite an investigation and get the American people angered, it's then discovered that the military has been undercounting, but only by a few dozen. Though, it's still enough of a scandal that UN is sent in, bingo bango, Russia is back in the game of Iraq Oil, of which they are currently shut out of.

[frylock]

18. why don't we ever hear about injured troops evac'd to germany..

passing away? I have never heard on the news "a US soldier who was wounded in Iraq last week passed away today". Are you suggesting that every injured soldier who is sent out of Iraq has survived? Every death we hear about is IN COUNTRY.

[sleipnir]

24. A previous post from SoFlaJet suggested that only in-country deaths

are being counted. I posted that, if true, the "site of death" reports in Japan, Germany, etc, etc, would be abnormally high. And thus, someone would surely take note. Everyone is getting their info from hearsay sources, so until someone hands me some hard info that more soldiers are being killed in Iraq, it's all B.S. to me.

If these people's "friends, relatives" at the medical centers are getting more bodies than reported, then why the hell don't they blow the whistle!? Or at least keep documentation? This hasn't happened yet, because the counts aren't that far off. If this were true, you would think that at least one doctor with a conscience would have come forward in the year and half this war has been going on, but none has.

I'm not trying to instigate a flame war, but if people think that the US is undercounting in the thousands, they have their tinfoil hat on way, way, way too tight.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

20. Sorry, but not so far fetched....

Once again I'll repeat this:

A member of my sister's family working at the German airbase who unloads the "tubes" has told her that the real numbers of dead is "significantly" higher that what is being reported.

The other thing that mentioned at the same time (planes flying in to load up with gas and then traveling to Iraq) turned out to be true, so I have no reason to doubt this report.

It was also mentioned the folks who were unloading the bodies were starting to experience PTSD from what they were seeing.

[spooked]

21. More info. on this Thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x708830

Including the fact that there are 40,000 Foreign nationals in the US Military! Link Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=708830&mesg_id=709283

[Saltdog]

23. Thanks Spooked, great links! n/t

[TNOE]

22. Let Us Not Forget:

http://rense.com/general54/off.htm

Oh yea, yea I know - this is from Rense, blah, blah, blah - but the fact remains that MAZEN DANA is dead and was killed.

Snip:
902 GI's died since war began in Iraq as of JULY 24, 2004

Hello? Wake the town and tell the people!

Does anyone REMEMBER August 17, 2003?

MAZEN DANA, Reuters' photo-journalist was murdered outside of Abu Grhaib Prison after filming and interviewing PRISONERS there.

I wrote an article months ago that some of you may have read:

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/lind000003.htm

Journalists and Photographers Die Trying to Tell Us Truths

Mazen had previously filmed DEAD U.S. soldiers buried in the desert and in another location more DEAD U.S. soldiers wrapped in plastic by their fellow U.S. soldiers, who were ordered to HIDE the bodies.

Snip:
Mazen KNEW last August what was happening to the Abu Ghraib prisoners and he was prepared to show his film o-n TV in a documentary about that and the dead U.S. soldiers when he was murdered.

Recently, we have been bombarded with the atrocities by some U.S. soldiers at the prison. However, every article and every TV news report has continuously stated that the "problems" began in or discovered in or was discovered in October/November 2003.

Mazen was there in AUGUST, 2003, folks!